EVE Search - Ten hard questions for CCP

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Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:09:00 - [61] << 8. We have banned players for hacking and cheating. The EULA is clear about what rules players need to follow. Hall of shame is something that we will consider, but I can't promise anything. Anyway should it not be Space of shame? :) >> If you implement a Hall/Space/Whatever of Shame, violating the privacy of the account holder, and all gloves come off. Removed, threats are not allowed - Wrangler I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:09:00 - [62] << 8. We have banned players for hacking and cheating. The EULA is clear about what rules players need to follow. Hall of shame is something that we will consider, but I can't promise anything. Anyway should it not be Space of shame? :) >> If you implement a Hall/Space/Whatever of Shame, violating the privacy of the account holder, and all gloves come off. Removed, threats are not allowed - Wrangler I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:30:00 - [63] Keep yer knickers on, Jash. nobody will find out where you live. And physical threats over the internet are one of the purest sources of 'comedy megacyte'. Anyway... Sorry if I thought the original post came off as arrogant. I didn't know you were a techy type. I should have sensed it though. Also people who say they 'probably know more than most people' 'know more than you lot' 'know more than most gamers' 'have more experience than everyone else' - **** off. Such wild (and indeed, arrogant) claims make you look markedly less intelligent. Think of arrogance as a -5% intelligence modifier. Have fun. Edited by: drunkenmaster on 25/06/2003 13:31:26 .
drunkenmaster Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:30:00 - [64] Keep yer knickers on, Jash. nobody will find out where you live. And physical threats over the internet are one of the purest sources of 'comedy megacyte'. Anyway... Sorry if I thought the original post came off as arrogant. I didn't know you were a techy type. I should have sensed it though. Also people who say they 'probably know more than most people' 'know more than you lot' 'know more than most gamers' 'have more experience than everyone else' - **** off. Such wild (and indeed, arrogant) claims make you look markedly less intelligent. Think of arrogance as a -5% intelligence modifier. Have fun. Edited by: drunkenmaster on 25/06/2003 13:31:26 .
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:40:00 - [65] << Keep yer knickers on, Jash. nobody will find out where you live. Sorry if I thought the original post came off as arrogant. I didn't know you were a techy type. I should have sensed it though. Also people who say they 'probably know more than most people' 'know more than you lot' 'know more than most gamers' 'have more experience than everyone else' - **** off. Such wild (and indeed, arrogant) claims make you look markedly less intelligent. Think of arrogance as a -5% intelligence modifier. >> Call it what you want but it doesn't change that it's true. And if your best retort is a flame, then you must not have anything intelligent as a reply. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 13:40:00 - [66] << Keep yer knickers on, Jash. nobody will find out where you live. Sorry if I thought the original post came off as arrogant. I didn't know you were a techy type. I should have sensed it though. Also people who say they 'probably know more than most people' 'know more than you lot' 'know more than most gamers' 'have more experience than everyone else' - **** off. Such wild (and indeed, arrogant) claims make you look markedly less intelligent. Think of arrogance as a -5% intelligence modifier. >> Call it what you want but it doesn't change that it's true. And if your best retort is a flame, then you must not have anything intelligent as a reply. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Endyl	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:24:00 - [67] Making a list of "banned" people in a hall of shame is kinda "puÚril" (sorry french word, dunno the traduction in english). Public execution and humiliation is maybe fitting a medieval age game and a big money making monster company with no morality like M$, but I hope in a space futuristic game we can be a bit more evolved than that. I don't give a **** of who got banned, since they got banned they just stop to exist in our little virtual universe, and if they want to tell them friends they decided to stop playing because they feel shame of being banned I would not deny them the right to. RIP.
Endyl Radio Free Albemuth	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:24:00 - [68] Making a list of "banned" people in a hall of shame is kinda "puTril" (sorry french word, dunno the traduction in english). Public execution and humiliation is maybe fitting a medieval age game and a big money making monster company with no morality like M$, but I hope in a space futuristic game we can be a bit more evolved than that. I don't give a **** of who got banned, since they got banned they just stop to exist in our little virtual universe, and if they want to tell them friends they decided to stop playing because they feel shame of being banned I would not deny them the right to. RIP.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:39:00 - [69] Endly - 'puerile' is the word you're looking for. Jash - most of that wasn't even pointed at you, unless you're standing in for weasel. And no, I don't have anything intelligent to add to this post, I feel it would be a waste of effort amongst the techy chest-beating. thank you. .
drunkenmaster Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:39:00 - [70] Endly - 'puerile' is the word you're looking for. Jash - most of that wasn't even pointed at you, unless you're standing in for weasel. And no, I don't have anything intelligent to add to this post, I feel it would be a waste of effort amongst the techy chest-beating. thank you. .

Mayumi	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:41:00 - [71] Okay, so I can be wrong, but I'm not ashamed of the possibility. I personally don't like the Hall of Shame idea, but if CCP does, then they can use it all they want, I can't/won't stop them. Note: This is not an announcement of anything, and I would not be privy to such discussion. -- Forum Rules \| Customer Support \| Contact CRC

Mayumi Polaris Corporation	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:41:00 - [72] Okay, so I can be wrong, but I'm not ashamed of the possibility. I personally don't like the Hall of Shame idea, but if CCP does, then they can use it all they want, I can't/won't stop them. Note: This is not an announcement of anything, and I would not be privy to such discussion. -- Forum Rules \| Customer Support \| Contact CRC

Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:46:00 - [73] << Jash - most of that wasn't even pointed at you, unless you're standing in for weasel. >> See my reply on page 1. << Okay, so I can be wrong, but I'm not ashamed of the possibility. I personally don't like the Hall of Shame idea, but if CCP does, then they can use it all they want, I can't/won't stop them. Note: This is not an announcement of anything, and I would not be privy to such discussion. >> I'd prefer to think that you automatically responded with what most people that have any experience playing a MMORPG would have said: This would not be the actions of a professional. Personally, I'm fairly certain it violates their own ToS (you know the part about no public discussions of consequences, ect...) I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:46:00 - [74] << Jash - most of that wasn't even pointed at you, unless you're standing in for weasel. >> See my reply on page 1. << Okay, so I can be wrong, but I'm not ashamed of the possibility. I personally don't like the Hall of Shame idea, but if CCP does, then they can use it all they want, I can't/won't stop them. Note: This is not an announcement of anything, and I would not be privy to such discussion. >> I'd prefer to think that you automatically responded with what most people that have any experience playing a MMORPG would have said: This would not be the actions of a professional. Personally, I'm fairly certain it violates their own ToS (you know the part about no public discussions of consequences, ect...) I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:51:00 - [75] regarding the actual subject matter, I have to agree that a hall of shame is unnecessary. Just ban them. no hoo-hah, no news items, no chance of gaining fame through it. people* will see it as an opportunity to gain notoriety, and infamy, and to get on the list, your crimes will have to be worse than everybody elses. This is not the sort of competition that should be encouraged. *griefers .
drunkenmaster Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.06.25 14:51:00 - [76] regarding the actual subject matter, I have to agree that a hall of shame is unnecessary. Just ban them. no hoo-hah, no news items, no chance of gaining fame through it. people* will see it as an opportunity to gain notoriety, and infamy, and to get on the list, your crimes will have to be worse than everybody elses. This is not the sort of competition that should be encouraged. *griefers .
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 18:22:00 - [77] In regards to this Hall/Space of Shame bs, this is from another thread that Pann just closed: "...Action is underway. This thread will be locked per forum rules that state we will not publicly discuss actions taken against a player and this matter is not open to debate." So GM Regius, whose policy has precendence: CCP's or your company's? You can't rightly consider something that is expressedly against CCP policy, now can you? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 18:22:00 - [78] In regards to this Hall/Space of Shame bs, this is from another thread that Pann just closed: "...Action is underway. This thread will be locked per forum rules that state we will not publicly discuss actions taken against a player and this matter is not open to debate." So GM Regius, whose policy has precendence: CCP's or your company's? You can't rightly consider something that is expressedly against CCP policy, now can you? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Weaselsmasher	Posted - 2003.06.25 19:12:00 - [79] GM Regius: thank you for your straightforward answers. This is the sort of response I was looking for. Jash: I think you'd best relax. You are being far, far more confrontative than is good for you. Others: Sure, there's a knee-jerk reaction any time the word "Microsoft" is mentioned. Microsoft does many things incompetently; they do many things immorally. They also sometimes get it right. Microsoft DOES have something to teach you. If that statement short-circuits your brain and causes a direct connection between your aggression-center and your vocal chords, look at it this way: Microsoft paid a lot of money and took a lot of bashing to learn these things, which you can now take advantage of FOR FREE. You can make Microsoft pay for your research, and they can't stop you. There, is that better? Others part 2: Yes, it may come across as arrogant to say "I know more about some things than you do, and more than CCP does". It's also true. The key word is "some things". I bet they know more about Stackless Python than I do. I bet they know more about the problems of international billing than I do. I bet I know more about latency-triggered network problems and possible solutions than they do. I bet I know more about the fuel injection system on a 2000 Buell Thunderbolt S3T than any person playing Eve. That doesn't make me a better person, but it doesn't make you a better person either. What it DOES mean is that there are certain subjects that I cannot be lied to about, and that there are certain subject upon which I may actually have something useful to say. As for the Hall of Shame... I'll point out, firstly, that the Terms of Service can be changed at any time. I'll also point out that posting account names which are banned does not involve discussing why, and that posting the account name no more violates privacy than does your posting here. I will also point out, to the illiterate, that I am not necessarily advocating it as the best solution, but pointing out that it HAS been done by a successful MMORPG before, to address the issue of credibility. There may be other techniques... if so, let's hear 'em. Credibility is the most important aspect of a disciplinary system. As I stated in my first post, I'm not posting to make friends with CCP or other players (though I'm getting a wealth of information about how many players here handle a discussion in which there is disagreement). I'm trying to ask questions which might lead to solutions, or at least reexamining what the root cause of persistent in-game problems. If you people want to call me some Slashdot-inspired or Simpsons-comic-store-owner-inspired unoriginal name, go right ahead. Maybe it'll make that vein on your forehead stop throbbing. Or maybe it'll burst. Hmm. There's a movie in that somewhere. Edited by: Weaselsmasher on 25/06/2003 19:14:12
Weaselsmasher	Posted - 2003.06.25 19:12:00 - [80] GM Regius: thank you for your straightforward answers. This is the sort of response I was looking for. Jash: I think you'd best relax. You are being far, far more confrontative than is good for you. Others: Sure, there's a knee-jerk reaction any time the word "Microsoft" is mentioned. Microsoft does many things incompetently; they do many things immorally. They also sometimes get it right. Microsoft DOES have something to teach you. If that statement short-circuits your brain and causes a direct connection between your aggression-center and your vocal chords, look at it this way: Microsoft paid a lot of money and took a lot of bashing to learn these things, which you can now take advantage of FOR FREE. You can make Microsoft pay for your research, and they can't stop you. There, is that better? Others part 2: Yes, it may come across as arrogant to say "I know more about some things than you do, and more than CCP does". It's also true. The key word is "some things". I bet they know more about Stackless Python than I do. I bet they know more about the problems of international billing than I do. I bet I know more about latency-triggered network problems and possible solutions than they do. I bet I know more about the fuel injection system on a 2000 Buell Thunderbolt S3T than any person playing Eve. That doesn't make me a better person, but it doesn't make you a better person either. What it DOES mean is that there are certain subjects that I cannot be lied to about, and that there are certain subject upon which I may actually have something useful to say. As for the Hall of Shame... I'll point out, firstly, that the Terms of Service can be changed at any time. I'll also point out that posting account names which are banned does not involve discussing why, and that posting the account name no more violates privacy than does your posting here. I will also point out, to the illiterate, that I am not necessarily advocating it as the best solution, but pointing out that it HAS been done by a successful MMORPG before, to address the issue of credibility. There may be other techniques... if so, let's hear 'em. Credibility is the most important aspect of a disciplinary system. As I stated in my first post, I'm not posting to make friends with CCP or other players (though I'm getting a wealth of information about how many players here handle a discussion in which there is disagreement). I'm trying to ask questions which might lead to solutions, or at least reexamining what the root cause of persistent in-game problems. If you people want to call me some Slashdot-inspired or Simpsons-comic-store-owner-inspired unoriginal name, go right ahead. Maybe it'll make that vein on your forehead stop throbbing. Or maybe it'll burst. Hmm. There's a movie in that somewhere. Edited by: Weaselsmasher on 25/06/2003 19:14:12

Hematic	Posted - 2003.06.25 19:23:00 - [81] Actually the original poster was right on the money with most of his questions. I myself just recently cancelled my account as well as a friend of mine. The SOLE reason being that network lag/game mechanics is the biggest advantage in this game thus far and it benefits in general those who wish to PK constantly. When an indiviual can undock, get fired upon before his screen loads and not be able to immediately redock thus loosing his ship to network lag there is a problem. No amount of strategy or know how can prevent certain ship losses. I live in the states and certain network lag cannot be countered by a "better modem" as one uninformed gentlemen suggested. Since when is nvidia 5200U 128mb and 512 system mem not enough to at least have a chance at escape in a game? I am not cynical just realistic. PKer/Griefers are going to be part of any game and I fully accept that as part of the game. However since these are the minority and tend to ruin game experience for others why wouldn't preventing lag death be a priority for the devolopers? In fact knowing this why wouldn't measures have already been taken to try to eliminate lag as a form of strategy before release? With local chat often getting bugged and pilots in space being only somewhat accurate what does someone do to prevent it? Hang out in .5 or better for the duration of the game? Lag death is the only reason my friend and I cancelled because at this point there is no way for us to affect the outcome of certain types of encounters thus it ceases being a game where people compete but rather a distraction that kills time. I'll play descent for that because at least if I get lag killed the penalties are negligiable.
Hematic Caldari R.O.T.	Posted - 2003.06.25 19:23:00 - [82] Actually the original poster was right on the money with most of his questions. I myself just recently cancelled my account as well as a friend of mine. The SOLE reason being that network lag/game mechanics is the biggest advantage in this game thus far and it benefits in general those who wish to PK constantly. When an indiviual can undock, get fired upon before his screen loads and not be able to immediately redock thus loosing his ship to network lag there is a problem. No amount of strategy or know how can prevent certain ship losses. I live in the states and certain network lag cannot be countered by a "better modem" as one uninformed gentlemen suggested. Since when is nvidia 5200U 128mb and 512 system mem not enough to at least have a chance at escape in a game? I am not cynical just realistic. PKer/Griefers are going to be part of any game and I fully accept that as part of the game. However since these are the minority and tend to ruin game experience for others why wouldn't preventing lag death be a priority for the devolopers? In fact knowing this why wouldn't measures have already been taken to try to eliminate lag as a form of strategy before release? With local chat often getting bugged and pilots in space being only somewhat accurate what does someone do to prevent it? Hang out in .5 or better for the duration of the game? Lag death is the only reason my friend and I cancelled because at this point there is no way for us to affect the outcome of certain types of encounters thus it ceases being a game where people compete but rather a distraction that kills time. I'll play descent for that because at least if I get lag killed the penalties are negligiable.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 19:42:00 - [83] << Jash: I think you'd best relax. You are being far, far more confrontative than is good for you. >> Actually, it's best I don't relax. I'm one of those people that are safer to be around when they're angry. When I get calm, it means I'm resolved to do something that isn't pretty. << I will also point out, to the illiterate, that I am not necessarily advocating it as the best solution, but pointing out that it HAS been done by a successful MMORPG before, to address the issue of credibility. >> By all means, do tell us this successful MMORPG that violates customer privacy. I sure haven't heard of it. AC doesn't. EQ doesn't. AO doesn't. DAoC doesn't. UO doesn't. Who am I missing? Right now I'm viewing a situation where the GMs do not appear to be under the control of the developer. Conflicting statements from the developers and the GMs support this. Bad judgement, imo, has been exercised repeatedly by the GM staff by involving themselves in player affairs innapropriately. If the GMs cannot be trusted to follow the policies as presented to us, then we cannot trust to be treated fairly in any situation. I do not pay anyone to treat me unfairly or disrespectfully. They are getting the same treatment from me as they provide, in my opinion. So long as CCP cannot be bothered addressing important issues they are disrespectful in the treatment of myself and the rest of their customers. So long as I cannot be sure of the actions of their representatives, they will not get an ounce of slack from me. And if you're willing to put up that type of treatment quietly, more power to you. I, however, am not a sheep that goes quietly to the shearing. Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 19:43:04 Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 19:44:09 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 19:42:00 - [84] << Jash: I think you'd best relax. You are being far, far more confrontative than is good for you. >> Actually, it's best I don't relax. I'm one of those people that are safer to be around when they're angry. When I get calm, it means I'm resolved to do something that isn't pretty. << I will also point out, to the illiterate, that I am not necessarily advocating it as the best solution, but pointing out that it HAS been done by a successful MMORPG before, to address the issue of credibility. >> By all means, do tell us this successful MMORPG that violates customer privacy. I sure haven't heard of it. AC doesn't. EQ doesn't. AO doesn't. DAoC doesn't. UO doesn't. Who am I missing? Right now I'm viewing a situation where the GMs do not appear to be under the control of the developer. Conflicting statements from the developers and the GMs support this. Bad judgement, imo, has been exercised repeatedly by the GM staff by involving themselves in player affairs innapropriately. If the GMs cannot be trusted to follow the policies as presented to us, then we cannot trust to be treated fairly in any situation. I do not pay anyone to treat me unfairly or disrespectfully. They are getting the same treatment from me as they provide, in my opinion. So long as CCP cannot be bothered addressing important issues they are disrespectful in the treatment of myself and the rest of their customers. So long as I cannot be sure of the actions of their representatives, they will not get an ounce of slack from me. And if you're willing to put up that type of treatment quietly, more power to you. I, however, am not a sheep that goes quietly to the shearing. Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 19:43:04 Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 19:44:09 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Malikon	Posted - 2003.06.25 20:09:00 - [85] jash...why don't you calmly resolve to change the "their" in your signature to "there"? Edited by: Malikon on 25/06/2003 20:09:54 Edited by: Malikon on 25/06/2003 20:10:25
Malikon 0utbreak	Posted - 2003.06.25 20:09:00 - [86] jash...why don't you calmly resolve to change the "their" in your signature to "there"? Edited by: Malikon on 25/06/2003 20:09:54 Edited by: Malikon on 25/06/2003 20:10:25
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.25 20:14:00 - [87] << Jash...why don't your calmly resolve to change the "their" in your signature to "there"? >> The quote is accurate and the usage is correct as "Their's" :D Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 20:14:41 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.25 20:14:00 - [88] << Jash...why don't your calmly resolve to change the "their" in your signature to "there"? >> The quote is accurate and the usage is correct as "Their's" :D Edited by: Jash Illian on 25/06/2003 20:14:41 I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Malikon	Posted - 2003.06.25 20:20:00 - [89] i may be wrong but you are calm now having resolved to ignore my suggestion. everyone breath...ah, isn't that better. and remember folks, don't shoot malikon in game...he is your friend. :)
Malikon 0utbreak	Posted - 2003.06.25 20:20:00 - [90] i may be wrong but you are calm now having resolved to ignore my suggestion. everyone breath...ah, isn't that better. and remember folks, don't shoot malikon in game...he is your friend. :)



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