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heiway
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Posted - 2009.07.27 11:17:00 -
[1]
Hello ;)
i recently set up a research pos, and now i'm playing around with all those stuff. (i'm not doing this for profit, but to get some know how and have fun)
i started with invention and ended up with a 9run t2 bpc with negative ME and PE (~70% waste).
now my question is : is the ME and PE of the t2 BPC only influenced by skill,luck and the type of decryptor you use, or does the ME and PE of the T1 BPO also influence the end result?
and if so, to what level should i bring those bpos?
i have read several threads about those stuff and 10-20 seems to be ok. right now, i'm researching 3 bpos to ME10, will copy them, do Invention and compare, but 3 won't be enough to be 100% sure, so hope some of you can help me.
thx in advance
o/
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Zalbrak
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Posted - 2009.07.27 11:32:00 -
[2]
T2 BPCs are -4 ME -4 PE by default, and the only thing that changes this is a decryptor (if any)
You only need to reaserch ME and PE if you are also building the T1 object from the BPO, or want to sell on T1 BPC's
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heiway
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Posted - 2009.07.27 11:38:00 -
[3]
thx for your fast response.
looks like i wasted 24h of research :D
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Buil't2'r
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Posted - 2009.07.27 11:39:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Buil''t2''r on 27/07/2009 11:40:14 It all depends on what you want to do some decryptors can increase runs at the expense or me and pe. Decryptors should only be used for ship invention and you can also get decryptors to bring your me and pe to -1 which is a lot when you see the prices of complex minerals. And if you have a POS id suggest putting that thing to its full capabilities but hey thats just me. That thing can make isk in more ways than you might imagine. Welcome to the frustating world of invention and t2 production. P.S. the only thing that matter is the amount of runs. For ship invention all you want is 1 run bpc. For module invention you want max run bpc.
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Lightningshade
Caldari The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.07.27 11:51:00 -
[5]
hi - read invention guide
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heiway
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Posted - 2009.07.27 12:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: heiway on 27/07/2009 12:03:39
Originally by: Buil't2'r Edited by: Buil''t2''r on 27/07/2009 11:40:14 ... Welcome to the frustating world of invention and t2 production. ... .
only 2 days in this business, but Amen to that^^
my short jita visit to buy some components and check prices gave me the feeling, that many prices are irational, and if you wanne do it right, you have to be in a big corp or farm every single piece by yourself (what also doesnt make sense to me, because farming some components myself would compete with my time for farming sleepers,whats way more isk/h).
but hey, new goals in eve are always welcome, and maybe i will finally find out how to do it right by myself :D
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Buil't2'r
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Posted - 2009.07.27 12:05:00 -
[7]
Dont take my frustations too far out of context even on my crap days of invention i still make profits. :P Id highly suggest not giving up on t2 invention and production if this is an alt or you dont care to blow stuff up as being a true scientist and builder takes a good bit of training. Train the race skills to 5 decoding and starship i cant devulge too much on forums as im not screwing over the market. But ill say this on a good day i make 100 mil a day just off production. But i also have more than a couple scientists and workers :P Dont give up hope just yet and if you catch me in-game sometime shoot me a convo i might share a secret or two :P
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.27 15:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: heiway thx for your fast response.
looks like i wasted 24h of research :D
You can buy extra un-researched BPOs strictly for making multiple BPCs, as invention isn't a sure thing, and keep the ME researched one just for making the base item in manufacturing (I think most T2 items require the T1 base item). If you need volume of course (this is where T2 BPOs fall down).
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Major RoadAhead
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Posted - 2009.07.27 19:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Buil't2'r
P.S. the only thing that matter is the amount of runs. For ship invention all you want is 1 run bpc. For module invention you want max run bpc.
I really don't think you should be sharing your wisdom until you have some idea what you are doing yourself
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Byron Fantana
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Posted - 2009.07.27 21:26:00 -
[10]
I've been looking into invention lately as well, and while guides have helped answer most of my questions I still have one that I have either overlooked the answer to or the guides don't address.
There are some T2 blueprints that say their max runs per copy are 100 (for example, hobgoblin II bluepring). However, from reading guides my understandings so far are that you cannot invent a T2 BPC with more than 10 runs? Or am I just misinterpreting info.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.07.27 21:29:00 -
[11]
You're misinterpreting info. If the T2 BPO (which you don't have) has a limit of 100 max runs per copy, then the base value of an invented BPC (which you'll get with a successful invention job) will have whatever proportion of 10 runs (the 100 limit divided by 10) that the original T1 BPC had of it's max runs. For modules, it's pretty much always 10 runs if you use a max run BPC in the invention job. For ships, it's pretty much always 1 run no matter if you use a max run or 1 run BPC; the exception being you should use max run BPCs if you're using a decryptor on the job that increases the number of runs. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Korzai Shukar
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Posted - 2009.07.27 21:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Byron Fantana I've been looking into invention lately as well, and while guides have helped answer most of my questions I still have one that I have either overlooked the answer to or the guides don't address.
There are some T2 blueprints that say their max runs per copy are 100 (for example, hobgoblin II bluepring). However, from reading guides my understandings so far are that you cannot invent a T2 BPC with more than 10 runs? Or am I just misinterpreting info.
My guess is that it is the true max for a T2 BPO. However, since invention max runs is capped, you'll never see that.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.07.29 12:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 29/07/2009 12:16:12 Output Runs = min(max( round down ( (InputBPCRuns / T1MaxRunsPerBlueprintCopy) * (T2MaxRunsPerBlueprintCopy / 10) + DecryptorRuns ), 1), T2MaxRunsPerBlueprintCopy)
ME / PE solely determined by the decryptor, runs by the formula above.
This means modules you always want max runs; for ships you only NEED 1 run for invention without a decryptor that adds runs, and with a decryptor that adds runs you need to weigh up the value of the run you will lose without a max run input, vs the value of the max run input.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.07.29 12:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries You're misinterpreting info. If the T2 BPO (which you don't have) has a limit of 100 max runs per copy, then the base value of an invented BPC (which you'll get with a successful invention job) will have whatever proportion of 10 runs (the 100 limit divided by 10) that the original T1 BPC had of it's max runs. For modules, it's pretty much always 10 runs if you use a max run BPC in the invention job. For ships, it's pretty much always 1 run no matter if you use a max run or 1 run BPC; the exception being you should use max run BPCs if you're using a decryptor on the job that increases the number of runs.
The BASE output from an invented T2 BPC is the T2 Max Runs Per Copy / 10. The Max Runs Per Copy is what you will get making a copy from a BPO. You CAN get more than 10 runs from a module BPO if you use a decryptor that adds runs (so max is 19), though it would be silly to do so.
There have been cases when the T1 Production Limit was changed (from 1000 to 300) where you could invent 33 run T2 BPCs, and at the same time a mistake was made where one module was accidentally changed to a T2 production limit of 100 to 300 at the same time, so it ended up being, 1000/300 * 300/10 = 5*30, which gave 100 run base T2 invented BPCs (when using the old BPCs with the new production limits).
Also the hard cap was also found when inventing jump freighter BPCs back when the T2 JF's had a T2 production limit of 1.
So working out the formula for runs has been a process of learning and watching the effects of various changes ;)
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.07.29 15:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lightningshade hi - read invention guide
I have never found a good one myself tbh....
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D Wayne
Wayne Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.07.29 19:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Lightningshade hi - read invention guide
I have never found a good one myself tbh....
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