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Creok Mantaur
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:06:00 -
[1]
I've always wanted to get into manufacturing, people say how profitable it is, but can someone tell me how this is possible if for instance, the Dual Heavy Beam Laser I Blueprint costs (with perfect skills & ME) 529,651.35 ISK per unit (according to Murtons Production Calculator) That's alright I guess, but considering that EVE-Central says that sell orders are mostly under 500,000 (link: EVE-Central), how am I supposed to make money?
What kind of items would you recommend making? What item generally has the biggest gap between cost/profit (with good ME)?
I need help.
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CAPSLOCKBROKE
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:10:00 -
[2]
Well just like trade, a big part of it is putting stuff in the right places. Generally speaking:
Ammo Ships Tech 2 Stuff Rigs
Is the stuff worth building. Think about the location and build accordingly.
For instance, building Drakes and Ravens is probably a good idea near a Caldari Mission hub.
Building Merlins, Punishers, Rifters, Executioners, ect. is probably a good idea in 0.0 borders between alliances at war.
Rigs are good all around, and have decent profit margins with Prod Efficiency V.
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Creok Mantaur
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:20:00 -
[3]
Originally by: CAPSLOCKBROKE Well just like trade, a big part of it is putting stuff in the right places. Generally speaking:
Ammo Ships Tech 2 Stuff Rigs
Is the stuff worth building. Think about the location and build accordingly.
For instance, building Drakes and Ravens is probably a good idea near a Caldari Mission hub.
Building Merlins, Punishers, Rifters, Executioners, ect. is probably a good idea in 0.0 borders between alliances at war.
Rigs are good all around, and have decent profit margins with Prod Efficiency V.
So like missiles are good to sell around Caldari Mission hubs? Do I place a sell order or just fast-sell? Would you say it's better to salvage for your own rigs or buy them (with skills and research of course)? For Tech 2 Stuff, if I don't have a moon to get moon materials, is it ok as far as profit to buy your own moon materials and make the tech 2 components then make the tech 2 thing?
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Governor LePetomane
Rock Ridge Brokerage Solutions
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:29:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Creok Mantaur Dual Heavy Beam Laser I
Don't build stuff that rats drop, generally. There are some exceptions but as rules of thumb go it's a good one.
Also consider that named T1 guns are 1. better in every conceivable way than "vanilla" T1, and 2. common as dirt.
You're on the right track though, do your research and find out what things cost to build vs what you can sell them for. To narrow the field, use regional sales volume from the market tab as a guide to what has good turnover; and try to make educated guesses about what kinds of things people might buy and where based on your own buying and usage habits as well as those of people you know. Don't just think about what you buy, think about the reasons you buy it and under what circumstances.
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LuckyQuarter
Gallente Lucky Galactic Expeditions
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:33:00 -
[5]
It generally isn't worthwhile to look at eve-wide prices, focus on a specific region and the top 2-3 selling locations within it. Then, don't bother building any items that either don't have a minimum 10% difference between manufacturing cost and sell price. I typically only go into new markets if the current sellers are pricing their stuff 25% higher than I can build. That gives me the room I need for a price war to gain market share while still making a profit. Finally, as you start building, increase your total profit by placing long term buy orders at discounted prices for both the items your selling as well as the minerals you'll need to build them. If it takes you 3 days to manufacture a new batch, spend those 3 days gradually acquiring materials for the next manufacturing run at the cheapest prices possible. Then, when you go to sell your stuff, take your hauler and pick up your new stuff which might be spread out. And, don't just sell to one location, you want high sales velocity to make the whole process worthwhile..so once you're established, selling across 3 regions would be a good goal. Overtime, you'll also want to setup decent relationships with local mining corps.
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Janius Jelum
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Governor LePetomane
Originally by: Creok Mantaur Dual Heavy Beam Laser I
Don't build stuff that rats drop, generally. There are some exceptions but as rules of thumb go it's a good one.
Also consider that named T1 guns are 1. better in every conceivable way than "vanilla" T1, and 2. common as dirt.
You're on the right track though, do your research and find out what things cost to build vs what you can sell them for. To narrow the field, use regional sales volume from the market tab as a guide to what has good turnover; and try to make educated guesses about what kinds of things people might buy and where based on your own buying and usage habits as well as those of people you know. Don't just think about what you buy, think about the reasons you buy it and under what circumstances.
What item would you recommend me to start off with? Should I place sell orders or just down-right sell them?
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Krystal Vernet
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Janius Jelum What item would you recommend me to start off with? Should I place sell orders or just down-right sell them?
Sell orders will generally give you more profit. Buy orders are often priced so that the buyer can then relist to sell without losing profits.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:41:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 16/07/2009 18:41:34
I'm a miner / industrialist, but I do run missions too. Even though I do max run ammo builds (like 150,000 Scourge missiles which takes me about 3 days), every once in a while I run out of missiles while at a mission hub, and I buy them instead of going 14+ jumps back to base to pick-up more.
Sometimes people are willing to pay for convenience. Sometimes, they are even willing to pay a little more for it.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Creok Mantaur I've always wanted to get into manufacturing, people say how profitable it is ... the Dual Heavy Beam Laser I Blueprint costs ... how am I supposed to make money?
T1 and T1 named is "overrun" by mission runners who get the stuff all the time and don't calculate the way you do.. The only people there, who cause the price to get up to reasonable levels are buyers who reprocess them for the minerals they contain. Nothing to gain there..
Originally by: Creok Mantaur What kind of items would you recommend making?
Well.. NOBODY will tell you. Browse through market.. read forums what is used the most.. check the map for people in systems.. That's YOUR work to do, not ours. Only if you pay me my income I would tell you, but then it gets pointless for you
Originally by: Creok Mantaur So like missiles are good to sell around Caldari Mission hubs? Do I place a sell order or just fast-sell? Would you say it's better to salvage for your own rigs or buy them (with skills and research of course)?
If you want to eat the cake you need to bake it first. Just do the math.. any table-calc prog is good for this.
Originally by: Creok Mantaur For Tech 2 Stuff, if I don't have a moon to get moon materials, is it ok as far as profit to buy your own moon materials and make the tech 2 components then make the tech 2 thing?
Again.. do the math.. stuff on market ususally contains a markup from raw materials.. if you try to do the whole chain you might make 1-3% more instead when you specialize in one part of it.. you choice. Just do the math.. Nobody will help you with this.. There are enough tools/guides out there helping you with this.
PS: I bet 1M isk.. once you discovered some of those niche-markets on your own and you got some iskies coming your way you wont tell anyone about it asking like you here on forums.. right? Thought so..
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Janius Jelum
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:50:00 -
[10]
Any more useful advice? I really had know idea how to do this did I
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Krystal Vernet
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:59:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Krystal Vernet on 16/07/2009 18:59:54
Originally by: Janius Jelum Any more useful advice? I really had know idea how to do this did I
In mission hubs, ammunition is generally a fairly safe bet if you want to practice manufacturing + selling. Small profits, though, since lots of people are probably doing the same thing.
Ships and T2 modules can also be good bets, depending on the systems / regions in question.
You just have to put in some research on what's in demand and tailor what you're going to do to that.
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Fobiah
Altruism. Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.07.16 19:02:00 -
[12]
Unfortunately, largely organized mining corps have a tendency to to manufacture items out of the minerals they produce and listing the items at MINERAL COST. This means for the person who wants to buy minerals, manufacture items and list them for a PROFIT, there is little profit to be made.
The reason these mining corps do this is because their minerals sell faster of presented in different forms. This means that most items sold in Jita are being sold in ITEM form, but are really the lowball price for the materials it takes to make them.
Unless you can find a way to purchase minerals at LOWER than SELLING price, you will have a hard time making a profit just producting.
This was a three month lesson I learned trying to do EXACTLY what you're attempting.
Albeit, if you can find an area that has a high demand for T1 items and those items are absent from the market, then you can charge whatever you want.
Just don't chit-chat your market away to someone else. Before you know it, your market will be low-balled by some huge Corp.
Good luck entrepreneur.
................................................................................. oOKtastic |
Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.07.16 19:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Creok Mantaur So like missiles are good to sell around Caldari Mission hubs? Do I place a sell order or just fast-sell? Would you say it's better to salvage for your own rigs or buy them (with skills and research of course)? For Tech 2 Stuff, if I don't have a moon to get moon materials, is it ok as far as profit to buy your own moon materials and make the tech 2 components then make the tech 2 thing?
Generally speaking you want to place sell orders for items that you manufacture and buy orders for the materials that you need to acquire to make them. There are certainly times when this breaks down, but those tend to be somewhat rare.
I don't really know tech 2 production, but from my limited experience with pos reacted components the markups are actually pretty low in Jita (when you factor in pos fuel and player time) so if you're willing to babysit some buy orders you probably wont get taken too badly. Buyer beware, of course.
For rigs... You physically can't salvage enough stuff to keep a rig building business going. Even if you buy up the salvage of a decently active mission system it wont be enough to fuel a semi-aggressive rig building operation. You'll need to babysit those buy orders too, and be willing to devote a bunch of market orders to a variety of rigs (as most rigs are fairly low volume).
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:02:00 -
[14]
I'll point out that building and selling the T1 versions of modules that drop does work off hub. Not particularly fast but if you setup a reinforcing sales strategy it works quite well. If you see the ammo and the hulls you might as well sell the guns even if they drop from rats (establish a minimum price it so YOU make a profit). If it's all at the same station and you're not in a main market hub, you'd be surprised how often I see the same guy buying the ammo also buying the guns to shoot it with.
Remember not everyone has the same philosophy as mission runners. One PvP strategy is to fit out disposable ships with plain T1 equipment so they can shrug if they lose it. You don't fit named modules to one of those 95% of the time. If you provide hull, guns, modules and ammo at the same station you'll be pleasantly surprised how often you get bunched sales.
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari Life is Experience New Eden Hardware Emporium
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Posted - 2009.07.16 23:31:00 -
[15]
Welcome to industry. When it comes to manufacturing T1 or even T2 items, you need to ensure that you're not spending all your game time doing market research. Do missions as that's a damn sight more valuable than mining is.
So the first thing you should concentrate on is getting the minerals you'll need to build stuff? what stuff I hear you ask - well it depends where you're building and where you're willing to sell. If you're doing it solo then allow yourself to be more mobile than a manufacturing corp (I give this information free), if you're doing it as part of a corp then the turnover should technically be faster, but not always.
My biggest bug bear with t1 industry at the moment is that it seems there are as many mission runners and builders than there are ships getting blown up and charges being used so while it could net a profit does waiting a while to see a 3% return sound like a good idea? I don't know, maybe I'm bored or jaded, but as a corp we're discussing options and looking at multiple options.
Good luck though and remember it's a game do the numbers but try not to concentrate on this one aspect of the game when there are other facets as enjoyable and especially missions a lot more beneficial to the characters growth (standings, zero refining tax etc).
EXP-L Eve Industrial Organiser |
iP0D
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Posted - 2009.07.16 23:56:00 -
[16]
Just make sure you do your own mining for resources, minerals will be free then
But serious now, cost is not just price, it is also the time you spend, and if you grow to include others that also applies to them. Also never think finding your niche entails a static market, everything is relative and temporary in EVE.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.07.17 03:12:00 -
[17]
There are several ways to profit from T1 "tradufacture." General rules were mentioned - sell outside of major hubs, try to find needs and fill them. Don't mass manufacture rat droppings.
The other is sourcing your materials cheaply. Babysit buy orders for the same rat droppings at 10-20% below reprocessing value. Buy battleships when they go 5% or so below mineral value. With loss free and tax free refining you can then turn these cheaply sourced materials into goods trading at or above mineral value. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question? |
Corselia lockheart
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Posted - 2009.07.17 07:31:00 -
[18]
what drives the market.
for me I think PvP drives the market hardest. sales in empire lack the demand, mission runners almost never loose ships, (afk losses) they may only buy items needed to fit ships they own and or a snigle replacement set.
whats worked for me is selling close to low/null sec as I can. selling items/ships used in PvP. check DOTland for resent losses in your local low secs and build the ships you see lost. Ive made quite a few sales to the same people who lost ships.
some of my best sellers.
cruisers and BC's, DC II's MWD's, CAP injectors, steel plates 800mm/1600mm, ANM II's MED reps II's the list goes on.
forget making friends with the local miners, make friends with the local PvPERS and pirates.
as a bouns, most of these buyers dont mind paying more since they cant, or wont make the extra jumps to save a few mill. Also likey part of a moon mining corp/ratt in low sec a few mill is chump change, wheres a mission runner will make 7 jumps to save 5 mill
I also do my own mining and these areas tend to have better local belts.
hope this helps good luck
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Balgias
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Posted - 2009.07.17 11:51:00 -
[19]
I won't tell you what I build, but what I will tell you is how I make money: by constantly looking for new products to produce or new markets for my goods.
There are some obvious exceptions, but generally speaking, profitability of a given product is going to vary over time. Even if you find something to produce and you make good profit in a certain market, don't expect to be able to ride it forever. In the long term diversity and flexibility are going to be key to sustained profits |
Mystafyre
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:09:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Mystafyre on 17/07/2009 12:08:54 Well manufacturing is really hard these days. Usually profits from T1 production are at 1-4% and that's calculated with Jita's mineral prices.
Like we all know, any large building project needs continous feed of minerals to keep it running, Jita is the only place wich can offer this, except some 0.0 areas - but that's no go for normal builder.
Removing T1 loot from loot tables would solve lot's of issues.
For example building Apocalypse battleships from Jita minerals, let's say 6x ME25 BPO's running all the time. Your profit (two days ago) was 2.5% and that was about 2.4 M ISK. Let's say that you can do 7 runs in a day. That would make 6 * 7 * 2.4 = 100.8 M ISK profit in a day.
Now, the first problem is that you can't do that in Jita, no free slots available. You have to haul your minerals. About 4-6 jumps away from Jita there starts to be enough free slots daily.
You will want two freighters to keep the minerals running, OR you can rent a hauling service. But that eats your profits down. With two freighters you get enough minerals to about 2 battleships. Let's say 6 jumps with 300k fee, that's 2.4 M ISK away from your 24 M ISK profit.
Third problem is that you will be buying massive amounts of minerals daily and mineral supply to Jita isn't enough for your needs and the price is going up, cutting your profits since there is stacks of unsold Apocs in the Jita market and everyone are are referring in Jita price levels. So you would need to eather cut your profits even more and sell bulk, or start hauling the battleships around the New Eden. Major time sink.
Fourth problem is the sheer amount of battleships you produce 42 Apocs every single day! 1260 in 30 day month! 15330 in a year! You have absolutely no chance to sell them all and keep your production running. Unless you have multiple alliances and corporations buying ships form you as bulk.
So basically, if you want to make money with T1 production you need to take account lot's and lot's of things. Get good mineral suppliers, get good bulk buyers or have dozen trade alts and hauler alts to distribute your products around. And have a massive BPO collection.
Of course drones, charges and ammunition are stuff wich are used a lot. But there you need good distribution channels - if you just dump your stuff into market - they will be there for a long time.
T1 production is profitable, but real mass production is hard to get rolling. T1 item market in most regions is mostly feeded from mission loot and that needs a change. T1 nameds from loot drops is enough.
In T1 production the key is the mineral value. If you can achieve minerals with low cost you make tons of ISK. If you get tritanium with price of 2 ISK from somewhere, you can undercut any bulk seller there is and still make massive profits.
But the funny part is that if you get the tritanium with 2 ISK from somewhere - easiest is to sell it straight away with 4 ISK...
Tip for noobs is that if missioning or ratting feels boring, I trust you that trying to figure out good way of generating ISK without grinding isn't any easier
My two cents
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Sometimes people are willing to pay for convenience. Sometimes, they are even willing to pay a little more for it.
Very much so. If I lost my Drake, and I could buy a new one in station, or save 3M ISK if I were willing to fly to 3 jumps away and them back again, I'd buy the more expensive-but-local Drake.
Likewise, having to shop for new modules if my ship gets blown up. It's a drag having to move around from system to system. Much more fun if everything is in one place, even if it is slightly more expensive.
-- Salpad |
zombeee
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.07.17 16:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Salpad If I lost my Drake, and I could buy a new one in station, or save 3M ISK if I were willing to fly to 3 jumps away and them back again, I'd buy the more expensive-but-local Drake.
Likewise, having to shop for new modules if my ship gets blown up.
The problem is that most (hi-sec) players don't look at the local market and go straight for the nearest trade hub.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.17 17:25:00 -
[23]
Minerals you mine are free, duh. Manufacturing is nearly pure profit (job installation cost )
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goober nuts
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Posted - 2009.07.17 18:55:00 -
[24]
its about location and competition
i tend to avoid market hubs/common objects
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Mystafyre
Caldari The Ghosts
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Posted - 2009.07.17 21:49:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Mystafyre on 17/07/2009 21:50:04 I think I must add little into this thread...
How to make real profit in EVE...
Well there is two ways of doing it.
First is that you trade, and you trade more and then you trade even more! Eventually you do multiple multi region runs with freighter alt or two or three freighter alts. You spend your gaming time looking markets in different regions and you try to find instant profits and good spots for pvp equiptment sales.
Second is that you capture a moon(s), then you mine, then you do all the reactions...in other words you produce T2 stuff from the scratch. Sadly, typical player will not stand a chanse doing that.
However, producing t1 ammo is always profitable. If I am roaming in lowsec and I need more ammo and there isn't T2 or faction ammo available, I will pay too much from the ammo just to get it.
It's all about finding your market and how you can keep your market running. Worst thing is to brag around that you're making tons of ISK. It doesn't take long to track you down and your alts and check the contract market and market to see what you're doing. Trust me that the big boys really do dirty tricks, just like in RL...
As an old pirate I would love to see ppl distributing drones and cap boosters into every station in lowsec Cap booster 800 in empire is like 3000-6000 ISK, but in lowsec I can pay easily 30k-60k per unit if my pvp ship needs them.
It's all about the supply and demand and the situation where your possible clients are.
One good tip is to move frigate and cruiser class ships (T1/T2/faction) with mods and rigs to lowsec stations. Put them on contracts and wait. Usually it doesn't take long for proper fitted ship to be sold to pirate or faction warfare pilot. The key is the distribution, you really have to put lots of time on that. But do not overprice yourself out of the game!
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Mystafyre
Caldari The Ghosts
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Posted - 2009.07.17 21:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: XXSketchxx Minerals you mine are free, duh. Manufacturing is nearly pure profit (job installation cost )
Yeah! If I mine everything else than zyd and mega I make like 40 million ISK profit per battleship!!! OMG! I must buy all the overpriced BPC's at the region!
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.07.17 22:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Mystafyre
As an old pirate I would love to see ppl distributing drones and cap boosters into every station in lowsec Cap booster 800 in empire is like 3000-6000 ISK, but in lowsec I can pay easily 30k-60k per unit if my pvp ship needs them.
Having dogged around low sec a little I have to agree with you. However, having dabbled in trading I can see why it doesn't happen. It takes a lot of training to get a decent number of market orders so the opportunity cost of devoting them to low sec stations is pretty high. Logistics are also a pita.
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