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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 15:46:43 Introduction:
There has been a lot of talk on the official EVE forums about a special technique allowing skilled probe scanners to probe a ship without the victim ever knowing it. However, nobody would share the actual technique in details, until now. I have found how to do it on my own, and it works! It's not an exploit, it's just very clever use of the available tools. Some of you might have been using this technique in more or less the same way for years, but I'm sure many players don't know this can be done, so I've decided to share it with everyone. If you see anythning that is incorrect or should be clarified, don't be afraid to post a reply.
Minimum requirements:
- 1x Covert Ops ship - 1x Expanded Core Probe Launcher - 4x Combat Scanner Probe - 1x Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
What I use to probe right now: (Copy to clipboard to import in EFT)
[Cheetah, Sentry Scout] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Co-Processor II
1MN Afterburner II Kapteyn Sensor Array Inhibitor I Kapteyn Sensor Array Inhibitor I [empty med slot]
Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Salvager I
Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
The technique:
The technique basically involves pinpointing the direction and range of a target ship using only the directional scanner. Then with the use of the Minimap Browser (F11) to see which way your scanner is pointing, it is possible to launch 4 probes dead on the area where the target ship should be, and possibly get a 100% hit on the first scan. You can then right-click-bookmark the target, and immediately recall your probes. Doing so means that even if the target ship keeps pressing the Scan button on his directional scanner to detect incoming probes, he won't see them for more than 5 seconds or so, and you still have a warpable bookmark to that target.
Some tips & facts to know before we start:
- 1 AU ~= 150,000,000km
- The directional scanner has a max range of around 14 AU, meaning you can theoretically, at a 360¦ angle, cover a sphere with a diameter of a maximum of 32 AU.
- It is possible to move all probes at once by holding the SHIFT key while you drag them. You can also change the range of all probes the same way. (this is a big time saver).
Step by step procedure:
Preparation (things to do before you can start scanning):
- Considering the maximum scan range of the directional scanner, begin by creating multiple safe spots in the system you want to probe in, so that you're always within range of potential targets. Most targets will be near known celestials, but you may also want to scan for mission runners in deadspace or at complexes for example.
- Create an overview tab (if not done already) showing only ships.
- Open your directional scanner, and check the box "Use overview settings". That will eliminate a lot of the junk you don't want to see.
- In the range box, type in all 9's and tab out, the range will automatically set itself to the maximum. Then set the angle to 360¦
- You are now ready to start scanning in this system.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 15:38:20 Now the fun starts...
- Step 1: Warp to one of the safe spots you created previously.
- Step 2: Set your speed to max speed and launch 4 probes.
- Step 3: Cloak your ship.
- Step 4: Press F10, then CTRL-F11 to open the solar system map and the scanner window. Select the first tab so you can control your probes.
- Step 5: Shift-drag all the probes away from you, as far as possible outside the solar system you're in, then hit the Analyze button to have the probes warp. This will allow to stay cloaked while your probes are ready to be used, and keep them outside the directional scanner range of any ship in the system. Close the Solar System map (F10).
- Step 6: Click on your directional scanner tab, and do a scan. If there are no suitable targets in range, just warp to another one of your safe spots and scan again. Do so until you find a good target. You could also move 4 probes at the four corners of the solar system, set them to 64 AU and arrange them so their intersection covers most of the area, and get a rough idea of where potential targets could be. That may save you some time. Just remember to move your probes out of the way again afterward so nobody sees them on scanner while you scan with the directional scanner.
- Step 7: That's when the tricky part starts. You now have to keep scanning while reducing the angle and adjusting the camera until you can tell precisely which direction the ship is located at using the minimum scan angle. This may take some time depending how good you are.
- Step 8: Now that you know the direction, you have to find the range. Start with 75,000,000km (0.5 AU), and work your way up, in increments of 75,000,000km until you first see the target again in the scan results. Note the range down, and DO NOT MOVE THE CAMERA!
- Step 9: Now that we have the direction, and the range, it's time to probe. Open the solar system map (F10), and the Minimap Browser (F11). You now have to orient the Solar System map the same way the minimap browser version is. Use the red circle (you) on the minimap browser and the "You are here" label in the Solar System map as a reference. Make sure you're viewing the Solar System map from the top (move the camera until it locks).
- Step 10: Now, it's a bit tricky to do right, but you have to look at the scan vector of your ship in the minimap browser to see which way you were pointing at, and locate that vector on the Solar System map the best you can.
- Step 11: Drag your probes in that direction, and use the range spheres of the probes themselves as a sort of ruler to set the proper distance from your ship. (i.e. if range was 3 AU, use a probe you set to 1 AU and one to 2 AU, and line their spheres up one after the other, then drop a 3rd probe on the edge of the last probe's sphere).
- Step 12: Set the range of your probes to 1 AU and arrange them in a diamond shape so that the intersecting section of all probes overlaps the area the target ship is supposed to be at. You may be able to use a larger range and place the probes further apart if you have good enough skills to get a 100% hit at that range, depending on the sig radius of the target ship (the higher the sig radius, the less precision you need with your probes to lock it).
- Step 13: Hit the Analyze button, and if your lucky, a few seconds later, you'll get a 100% hit!
- Step 14: If you don't, hurry up and move your probes a little and scan again until you do. If you do, bookmark your target and recall your probes right-away!
- Step 15: (...)
- Step 15: PROFIT!
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:40:00 -
[3]
Been doing this for a while now, this is invaluable to the whole thing And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Been doing this for a while now, this is invaluable to the whole thing
So I got it right or you are doing some of the things I list differently?
And thanks for the link, very useful indeed.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sniper Wolf18 on 15/07/2009 15:45:01
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Been doing this for a while now, this is invaluable to the whole thing
So I got it right or you are doing some of the things I list differently?
And thanks for the link, very useful indeed.
I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter.
EDIT: Typo And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Been doing this for a while now, this is invaluable to the whole thing
1 AU is almost, but not precisely, 150,000,000km. You don't need to be accurate to nine significant digits. All you're doing is slowing yourself down.
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 15:53:13
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter
Is this faster than starting from 0.5 AU and going up or it's just a personal preference?
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker 1 AU is almost, but not precisely, 150,000,000km. You don't need to be accurate to nine significant digits. All you're doing is slowing yourself down.
That's why I thought it would be faster to use rounded up values. Easier to remember too.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 15:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter
Is this faster than starting from 0.5 AU and going up or it's just a personal preference?
I haven't tried, i will try later on, though i would assume it is for me atleast (i suck horribly at maths and would have a hard time adding 75,000,000km together more than 3 times. And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter
Is this faster than starting from 0.5 AU and going up or it's just a personal preference?
It would take the same amount of time, but it has the benefit that if someone warps away during the process you'll notice immediately (since they're not there, then you check the previous range and see that they're not there either) whereas if you're stepping up, you won't notice until you work right up to maximum range and see they're no longer there.
Of course the absolute quickest way to sort this out is binary search, but if you're just trying to get someone's range to 1AU I'm not convinced the added complexity is worth the few seconds it would save you.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:14:00 -
[10]
Nice job Kaylan! Might I suggest you also post this on the EVElopedia? This is a good guide for it.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Nice job Kaylan! Might I suggest you also post this on the EVElopedia? This is a good guide for it.
I will wait to get a bit more feedback before I do so, just so I can make sure everything I covered is perfect and as complete as possible, then I will. Thanks for the support :)
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Valeronx
Celestial Horizon Corp. Slightly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Valeronx on 15/07/2009 16:43:21 It's a very nice guide. Thanks Kaylan !
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:50:00 -
[13]
ITT: Things we already know and three laughable low slots.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Aesheera
Amarr Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.07.15 16:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt ITT: Things we already know and three laughable low slots.
ITT: elitists can be missed from instructive threads. This helps some people. Post constructive or royally bugger off to your nest of goons.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:03:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 17:05:40
Originally by: An Anarchyyt ITT: Things we already know and three laughable low slots.
It's exactly because of people like you (who think everybody knows what you know so there's no need to explain anything) that a lot of players do not know this at all. Nobody wanted to share this in a concise guide and kept it a secret, which has caused a lot of unfounded whine threads about how the scanner is overpowered. This guide is obviously not for the ones who already know this, although I would appreciate experienced players using this technique already to share their own methods and possibly correct me in some places.
As far as my low slots, well, I don't see what else I could fit in there that would make my Cheetah a better Scout, so if you have any suggestions, speak, but if all you can do is laugh, then you can go post in another thread.
Please do not pollute this thread with that kind of comment.
Thanks.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:11:00 -
[16]
It's a good guide. But it does kinda suggest that some people are attempting to probe ships out without first finding direction and range using the scanner...
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gypsio III It's a good guide. But it does kinda suggest that some people are attempting to probe ships out without first finding direction and range using the scanner...
Yup, most new players I know never used the directional scanner in that manner (me first). There was no mention of this technique anywhere in the known EVElopedia, EVE Wiki or ingame tutorials, and I haven't seen any other guide explaining it in that much details. Unless someone learned this from another experienced corp member, or found it out on his own, there was no obvious way to learn this.
EVE Online has a very high learning curve, but sometimes all it takes is a little nudge from more experienced players to make it lower. Unfortunately, a lot of veteran players seem to think that this nudge should be "earned" somehow, and keep advanced techniques inside their "elite" circle as if newer players were too stupid or unworthy to know them.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Faife
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Faife on 15/07/2009 17:24:57 instead of the linear "go down by 0.5 au", i'm going to recommend this algorithm:
start by finding a person with full range scan
start by doing half range of previous change
- go hit, go to lower half of previous range
- go miss, go to upper half of previous change
percentages wise: start at 100% of range. it's a hit. go to 50% it's a miss, so go up by half: 75%. it's a hit, so go down by half of previous to 62%, hit so go up by half to 68%, etc.
i'm lazy so i tend to do this shortcut: for eve scanner, first search is 2147483647 (you get that by holding down 9), second is 1000000000 third you either add or subtract 500000000 next you add or subtract 250000000
repeat until you got it within 70000000, bam drop probes in a 1au circle (i prefer 5 probes, 1 exactly at spot at 1au range, rest at the 4 edges of that circle. hard to mess it up that way)
this algorithm is called binary search (iirc) and is mathematically the fastest way to do a blind search over a sorted range.
- -
having said that, if you're not worried about them spamming 'scan' to find the probes, it's usually faster to just scan the system using probes the all probe way. this applies to things like fleets that already know you're scanning, or logged out ships. -- Check out my EVE cartoons |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 15/07/2009 17:26:24
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Yup, most new players I know never used the directional scanner in that manner (me first). There was no mention of this technique anywhere in the known EVElopedia, EVE Wiki or ingame tutorials, and I haven't seen any other guide explaining it in that much details. Unless someone learned this from another experienced corp member, or found it out on his own, there was no obvious way to learn this.
I understand what you're trying to say. But people learn how to use the directional scanner before they learn how to probe - knowledge of the directional scanner is one of the absolutely fundamental, essential skills in the game. So by the time a player gets to probing, he knows how to use the directional scanner, and the insight required to figure out how to use the scanner to assist probing is almost nonexistent.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 15/07/2009 17:21:29 instead of the linear "go down by 0.5 au", i'm going to recommend this algorithm:
start by finding a person with full range scan
start by doing half range of previous change
- go hit, go to lower half of previous range
- go miss, go to upper half of previous change
example: start at 100% of range. it's a hit. go to 50% it's a miss, so go up by half: 75%. it's a hit, so go down by half of previous to 62%, hit so go up by half to 68%, etc.
i'm lazy so i tend to do this shortcut: for eve scanner, first search is 2147483647, second is 1000000000 third you either add or subtract 500000000 next you add or subtract 250000000
repeat until you got it within 70000000, bam drop probes in a 1au circle (i prefer 5 drones, 1 exactly at spot at 1au, rest at the 4 edges of that circle. hard to mess it up that way)
it's called binary search (iirc) and is mathematically the fastest way to do a blind search over a sorted range.
Nice! Very nice! I'll work on the phrasing and include this in my guide.
I also thought about using 5 probes, where the center one has a higher range than the other 4 (sphere overlaps all other probes) in case you were just a little off. I will include this in my guide as well.
Thanks for contributing!
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 15:53:13
Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 I work down on step 8 from the maximum range. EG 2147483647 -> 2047483647 -> 1947483647 -> 1847483647
until they drop off d-scan, then i go up to the last value, check that they're still there then input the distance into the converter
Is this faster than starting from 0.5 AU and going up or it's just a personal preference?
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker 1 AU is almost, but not precisely, 150,000,000km. You don't need to be accurate to nine significant digits. All you're doing is slowing yourself down.
That's why I thought it would be faster to use rounded up values. Easier to remember too.
The mathematically faster way would be to do a newtonian bipartition search. You found at max range.. then try at HALF that. If you found.. Try at half of this last range.. if not.. try at current range plus half etc...
This changes the number of iteration from a complexity o(n) into a o(log(n)).
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 18:17:00 -
[22]
Get good with teh scanner first.
Its the biggest PVP tool available because more likely than not, your target is already at a warpable place (belt, moon, station) and you just need to find where. With the scanner, you can find out in little to no time.
So, before you even launch probes, see if you can find the sucker with yoru scanner. If he's at a safe, THEN launch probes. ----------------- Friends Forever |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 15/07/2009 17:24:57 instead of the linear "go down by 0.5 au", i'm going to recommend this algorithm:
start by finding a person with full range scan
start by doing half range of previous change
- go hit, go to lower half of previous range
- go miss, go to upper half of previous change
percentages wise: start at 100% of range. it's a hit. go to 50% it's a miss, so go up by half: 75%. it's a hit, so go down by half of previous to 62%, hit so go up by half to 68%, etc.
i'm lazy so i tend to do this shortcut: for eve scanner, first search is 2147483647 (you get that by holding down 9), second is 1000000000 third you either add or subtract 500000000 next you add or subtract 250000000
repeat until you got it within 70000000, bam drop probes in a 1au circle (i prefer 5 probes, 1 exactly at spot at 1au range, rest at the 4 edges of that circle. hard to mess it up that way)
this algorithm is called binary search (iirc) and is mathematically the fastest way to do a blind search over a sorted range.
- -
having said that, if you're not worried about them spamming 'scan' to find the probes, it's usually faster to just scan the system using probes the all probe way. this applies to things like fleets that already know you're scanning, or logged out ships.
This is what I've always done. I didn't know it was called a binary search, just seemed the most logical way to sort the range lol. But yeah, cut the range in half each time, going up or down depending on if you lose the target if you go too low (short) with your adjustment.
Good job explaining Faife.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: murder one This is what I've always done. I didn't know it was called a binary search, just seemed the most logical way to sort the range lol. But yeah, cut the range in half each time, going up or down depending on if you lose the target if you go too low (short) with your adjustment.
Sweet, feedback from [apparently] the best probe scanner in the game! Thanks for confirming this, I will definitely modify that part of my guide later then.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Forum Trashtalker
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar
The directional scanner has a max range of around 14 AU, meaning you can theoretically, at a 360¦ angle, cover a sphere with a diameter of a maximum of 32 AU.
o_O
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:33:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 19:35:23
Originally by: Forum Trashtalker o_O
Woops... I think my mental calculator was broken lol I didn't see that, thanks for pointing it out.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:42:00 -
[27]
Wow you can do all that in under 5 seconds!!!
Skunk (o)
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Le Skunk Wow you can do all that in under 5 seconds!!!
Uh? What? No! I can't, it takes a while to do all this. The part that takes 5 seconds or less is the moment from when you do the final probe scan to the moment you recall your probes. The target will only see your probes on his directional scanner for a few seconds only since you recall them immediately.
Probes only warp to where you want to scan when you click Analyze, so you can play around with them as much as you want while they are physically at the other end of the system.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.07.15 19:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kaylan Jahlar Edited by: Kaylan Jahlar on 15/07/2009 19:47:01
Originally by: Le Skunk Wow you can do all that in under 5 seconds!!!
Uh? What? No! I can't, it takes a while to do all this.
Sorry I was mearly pointing out the probing of a target takes time, practice, preperation, skills , and method (very good OP by the way)
I intended only to gently mock the carebear emo ragers in another post who maintain a potential prober mearly has to jump a cov ops into system and all mission runners exact positions flash on the screen like a FW mission beacon.
It should also be noted that the finding of the mission runner is only half of the battle. You still have to get in and get the target tackled - which any runner who wishes to protect themselves from can easily do in a variety of ways pointed out in other posts.
Great guide, and ignore the troll (hes recently come off another forum ban) as tbh your low slots are resonable. Perhaps overdrives would be better to move though the various acceleration gates and 30km slowboats in your enemys mission (more chances for him to spot ya on scan if he isnt semi-afking) , but the istabs can help you get out of the toxic cloud missions you often find yourself in with your hull popping.
SKUNK
(o)
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.15 20:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gypsio III
I understand what you're trying to say. But people learn how to use the directional scanner before they learn how to probe - knowledge of the directional scanner is one of the absolutely fundamental, essential skills in the game. So by the time a player gets to probing, he knows how to use the directional scanner, and the insight required to figure out how to use the scanner to assist probing is almost nonexistent.
This false. Most players especially mission runners never use it. Its a great tool for PVP but most people dont know anything about it unless a another player explains it to them.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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