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Amerilia
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Posted - 2009.07.05 14:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Youre pirating the gameŠs music! OMG! Burn!
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Xenuchrist
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:56:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Xenuchrist on 05/07/2009 16:58:32 Gahhh... anyone who thinks this will be viable and rolled out in a large scale anytime within this or the next decade, are horribly uninformed or just a raving idiot.
This **** simply wont be able to scale well, neither technological or economical.
For each client connected, they need the equialent of a medium-end gaming rig to crunch trough all the CPU/GPU-cycles. Add to this the overhead of compression.
Further, if they solve the technological scaling problems, it simply wonŠt be economical viable. Ever. To minimize lag, they will need to have several server-parks scattered troughout the world (And lag will matter here. While 100ms network latency can be acceptable in a multiplayer game, 100ms mouse lag wonŠt be.) Just the bandwith/resource demands alone, will probably enforce this anyway.
This is bad. The only way such a scheme might remotely be anywhere near an operational profit is if they had the server-parks within one time-zone and clients somewhat equally distributed trough the world (and ist timezones.) Since they wonŠt be able to, and people wihin a TZ tend to game at the same time (Sunday evening anyone?) I doubt they could even "overbook" it with more than 50%... And if you expect enyone to pay for such a service you can just forget about queues, quotas, assigned play times etc...
The only way we might see something like this rolled out anytime soon, would be as a limited ISP-service/gimmick, which would probalby break horribly if it gets popular. "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy |
Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.05 16:58:00 -
[33]
It might work in South Korea :3
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Xenuchrist
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mika Meroko It might work in South Korea :3
Or as a thin client solution for a 24/7, 1000+ employee Chinese RMT sweat shop... "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:14:00 -
[35]
EVE at 820 ----------------- Friends Forever |
DarthCaboose
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:16:00 -
[36]
*mind blown*
Wow... That's awesome!
Of course, with many US ISPs looking to cap bandwidth, this might not kick off as well as planned.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:22:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Companies might see this as a threat as to what pirate organisations could do, and as such add in EVEN MORE protection layers to precent this which shaft the user even more. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:41:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/07/2009 17:42:59
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Companies might see this as a threat as to what pirate organisations could do, and as such add in EVEN MORE protection layers to precent this which shaft the user even more.
Yeah because pirates rather spent a small (or actually large) fortune on an enormous server park with huge bandwidth to let others play pirated games on their computers, than they just use something like bittorrent or usenet for distribution of the games themselves. And obviously it is really worth it to use illegal copies of the games, so they cant be used on the normal multiplayer servers of whoever made it, so you can make it a bit cheaper. It isnt like the servers and bandwidth requirements would be way more expensive than licenses for some games
Sorry but come back when you see realistic problems.
Edit: I realise a realistic problem is that it is basicly impossible to make economic viable, but this isnt a realistic problem.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:46:00 -
[39]
game companies will probably add **** to their eulas like 'you must buy 1 copy of the game for each customer' and the customer will end up paying full price for it... so people will just buy a video card for $100 uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.05 17:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/07/2009 17:42:59
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Companies might see this as a threat as to what pirate organisations could do, and as such add in EVEN MORE protection layers to precent this which shaft the user even more.
Yeah because pirates rather spent a small (or actually large) fortune on an enormous server park with huge bandwidth to let others play pirated games on their computers, than they just use something like bittorrent or usenet for distribution of the games themselves. And obviously it is really worth it to use illegal copies of the games, so they cant be used on the normal multiplayer servers of whoever made it, so you can make it a bit cheaper. It isnt like the servers and bandwidth requirements would be way more expensive than licenses for some games
Sorry but come back when you see realistic problems.
Edit: I realise a realistic problem is that it is basicly impossible to make economic viable, but this isnt a realistic problem.
The realistic problem is that nobody thought this was possible a couple of years ago so who the f'ck knows what technology holds for us in the next 5 years.
This in and of itself is no problem; But its proof of the pudding that as technology advances, its going to get harder and harder for the few to manipulate data and easier and easier for the many to distribute it. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 18:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/07/2009 11:27:28 Might be good for changing skills, but I think we're a long way from the reliable bandwidth that would be required to fight or even run a mission like this.
They might SAY that you can run it over a 1Mbit line, but then again Microsoft SAY that you can run XP on 64Mb RAM.
You CAN run xp on 64mb of ram. It will load slow but it does run. With tweaking you can actually make it run fairly good. The lowest spec I ever ran xp on was a 450mhz 64mb ram machine before we did a massive upgrade back in 2003 |
Agent Known
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.07.05 20:54:00 -
[42]
If you noticed, a lot of the games demoed are MMOs, which means that you don't need to buy the game to play, only the actual account...although, he did show a few games that you actually have to buy. I wonder how they would work with publishers...
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:17:00 -
[43]
few months back see something similar to this http://www.onlive.com/service.html
this+user wifi+laptop whit wifiway= lots of fun
EvE FTW |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: rValdez5987
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/07/2009 11:27:28 Might be good for changing skills, but I think we're a long way from the reliable bandwidth that would be required to fight or even run a mission like this.
They might SAY that you can run it over a 1Mbit line, but then again Microsoft SAY that you can run XP on 64Mb RAM.
You CAN run xp on 64mb of ram. It will load slow but it does run. With tweaking you can actually make it run fairly good. The lowest spec I ever ran xp on was a 450mhz 64mb ram machine before we did a massive upgrade back in 2003
Yes it will technically work.
Good luck doing anything more than play minesweeper on it though.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.05 21:29:00 -
[45]
Quote: The realistic problem is that nobody thought this was possible a couple of years ago so who the f'ck knows what technology holds for us in the next 5 years.
Everyone realised that with increase in processing power + bandwidth it might become a possibility. That isnt a rocket science. (remote desktop allready existed a coupel of years ago, and this is the same only with bit higher bandwidth and better compression, but it isnt like the idea is so special).
And for any realistic implementation it is still impossible.
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:14:00 -
[46]
♥ ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told.
◕◡◕
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.05 22:54:00 -
[47]
It wont work for all of semi-rural North America that uses DSL
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
Keeping people from making copies of digital merchandise is only one aspect of DRM and the rally cry whenever it comes up in debate over keeping it or not. So what we are saying is that if a major profiteering company like EA is given the chance to completely control if you can play digital merchandise or not with the shifting about of a few binary numbers then they will do that and eventually make you pay each and every time you decide to play the game be it an ongoing per use fee or a monthly 'master server' or 'patch server' fee. It will be a very small fee in the beginning but once it is accepted as the way things are it will balloon in price just like your atm, cable and wireless communications costs have done steadily over the years after they were deregulated.
Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Ignitious Hellfury
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:42:00 -
[49]
instant pants party.
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Taedrin
Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.06 00:47:00 -
[50]
I have doubts about their compression algorithm. It's either going to be incredibly lossy, take up more bandwidth than they claim, or be an incredibly small/poor resolution. Or pick two of the above.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.06 04:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
you seem to be missing the whole you need to log into their servers to play "your" games bit.
and needing ~1mb/s to play eve vs the like 50 kb/s it uses is a bit
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.07.06 05:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: 3. DRM going overdrive, self-explanitory.
Not really, why would they put DRM on it? DRM is (a pointless) attempt to try to protect movies, music, and similar things. I guess you can also try to use it to protect the installation disc of a game. But it would be completely pointless to protect the streamed data, which is just what you get to see on your screen, with DRM. I dont think they will be afraid that you make an 'illegal' copy of the data they sent you and then upload it via bittorrent. They basicly only send you FRAPS images of the screen realtime, so there isnt any reason they would put DRM on it.
you seem to be missing the whole you need to log into their servers to play "your" games bit.
and needing ~1mb/s to play eve vs the like 50 kb/s it uses is a bit
1megabit, not megabyte. Thats only about 120kb/sec which considering how much is going on and being streamed; Its not that much. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2009.07.06 05:33:00 -
[53]
I'll never understand DRM. It takes a week, tops, for a pirate to crack it.
-SIG- The true meaning of CCP; Completely Crap Patches. Truth. |
Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 08:44:00 -
[54]
Every keystroke you make would be transmitted across the interweb..... including youre login:pass. Awsome.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:11:00 -
[55]
I'm curious if EVE EULA allows you to do something like that....
You're putting your login and password into a web site basically. And we all know how secure websites are..
Myself, I'll stick to my computers.
Stuff like that may be fine for basic use games for the little kids, but for adults who measure lag in milliseconds, where a milliseconds delay can cost you your ship...
I mean think of it..
The info is sent from the EVE server to this companies server, compressed, then sent to your computer. You view it, then your response goes back to their server, THEN to CCP's server.
That's double the network traffic just in routing hops. Add in the delay on the servers end for compression of the video, I mean you could be talking upwards of a half second delay.. or more.. not for me..
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:14:00 -
[56]
So this is one of them sites that will sell my account info to suspicious maffia members?
Win a Hel mothership for 10M ISK |
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.06 09:48:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Joe Every keystroke you make would be transmitted across the interweb..... including youre login:pass. Awsome.
Because obviously piggeons bring your pass to the CCP servers...
(Yes i see the problem that their side would have the logins, but it wont be a problem because it goes across the internet).
Quote: you seem to be missing the whole you need to log into their servers to play "your" games bit.
You seem to be missing the whole point, they wont be your games. It is just like what you do right now with eveonline, you pay a monthly fee to use their servers, to play a game.
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Drykor
Minmatar Reform-Revolt
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:43:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Joe Every keystroke you make would be transmitted across the interweb..... including youre login:pass. Awsome.
Because obviously piggeons bring your pass to the CCP servers...
It's only the same if these guys are also using encryption for their user keyboard/mouse input.
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:52:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Joe Every keystroke you make would be transmitted across the interweb..... including youre login:pass. Awsome.
Because obviously piggeons bring your pass to the CCP servers...
It's only the same if these guys are also using encryption for their user keyboard/mouse input.
Its suprised i have to spell it out specificly.
Your Pass:login has to goto a 3rd party. A server that isn't CCP's or your Own. understand now? when your loose all your stuff how sympathetic do you actually think CCP will be?
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.06 10:52:00 -
[60]
It's just the old centralised / distrubted networking arguements of the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and now the new millenium. And just like every time the world switches over to centralised, some bright spark points out the benefits of distributed, and makes a fortune when the world switches over, and then some bright spark points out the benefits of centralised, and makes a fortune when the world switches over, and then some bright spark.... ya know... I don't think this is ever going to end.
(Unless my government finds a way to stick an "anti terror" label on it.)
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