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Raimo
Gallente Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.07.01 15:24:00 -
[31]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: Damar Rocarion ...
^^ soon to be the richest man in EvE history.
No, it's going to be Loren Gallen. --- WOLFY is recruiting!
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Mutnin
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.07.01 16:28:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Mutnin on 01/07/2009 16:36:00 Edited by: Mutnin on 01/07/2009 16:29:17
Originally by: Furb Killer Sorry but that would be somewhere between plain stupid and ******ed. There is no reason at all why you would get less for 20 vs 20 than 10 vs 10 (not to mention with those numbers you also get desyncs). Just because you prefer smaller gangs doesnt make your play style more right than others.
There should just be a fixed number of LP you get for a kill of a specific ship. If you kill it with 20 people, you get 1/20th of the LP. There are ways to do it better (so you get less than 1/20th if you need 20 people to kill a single WT, but if it is 20vs20 you just get your part of every kill), but that isnt easy to implement. And your idea than doesnt make any sense, to give more LP for a 5v5 than 20v20.
Blobs are what kill FW. The area's we play in are not big enough to have 20 and 30 man blobs roaming around all day.
I ran around with the blobs up till about a week or two ago. The main reason is this toon is rather new and I had crap for gun skills. However the fights were always the same, 20 guys ganking 1 or 2 unlucky SOB's.
I mean really does it really feel like a kill, if all you did was get 5% of the damage on a frig or get on the KM because you have him warp disrupted? I have had plenty of those and I've also had plenty of top damage done but in the end it's still blob vs a few in 90% of the fights and takes no real skill.
Maybe if you are lucky, you might get one equal size fight a day roaming around in a blob and then it's just going to end with system desync and lag 50% of the time. The rest of the time it's just ganking some unlucky sucker.
edit..
btw I'm not saying there is never a place for bigger fights. By all means the most fun I've had to date in FW was that fight we had in Auga last week. It's just it seems like it's always a blob running around non stop anymore and no one ever wants to go out on their own if their isn't a blob. That's why I say it's killing FW and hurting the fighting.
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Raimo
Gallente Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.07.01 16:31:00 -
[33]
What he said, pretty much. --- WOLFY is recruiting!
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Mutnin
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.07.01 16:32:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rodj Blake RKK announce that they're joining FW.
A few days later CCP announce that they're going to improve the rewards for FW.
Coincidence?
Why do you think I said in a earlier topic that's it's a good thing they are joining. FW will finally get some love.
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.07.01 16:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Droog 1 LP for kills can be exploited with alts.
Caldari have nothing left to capture. Reset of Occupancy incoming?
We get points for defending plexes as well, even more than from offensive plexes. So this just means more LP's for my alts who afk defend plexes and thus more goodies for me.
You could control Q your way to all sorts of goodies. What about new players, who don't have alts, that join the Caldari? What is left for them? A large part of FW has been taken away. They still have no plexes to run and are forced into the blob.
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Providing of course that gallente care about plexes even now.
The Caldari failed to get the Gallente into the plexes. Maybe CCP will be able to entice us into them with better rewards.
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
P.S: You (or should I say your main) have said you do not care about plexes. Why you still whine about occupancy reset?
Where am I whining? I don't want an occpancy reset personally. I never had much luck in getting a fight in plexes and those jamming NPCs are a pita,it is easier to just roam (solo/small gang or blob). I'm more concerned with the state of FW as a whole, what the future holds and if CCP are considering an occupancy reset.
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Mutnin
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.07.01 16:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rennion Sigh, they fall into the same trap other MMO's fall into. The rewards should be for defending not attacking but oh well. Systems like this encourage zerging undefended areas to get easy rewards and people will still blob up because for the scrubs this is the best way to tag onto killmails and get rewards.
Well maybe CCP implement it in such a way that this does not happen, one can hope.
Yea, that makes sense as well. I used to play Aces High 2 which was a small scale MMO for WW2. When they introduced the town capture system it slowly became almost nothing but blobs attacking towns in areas with the least resistance.
It's hard to say if defensive points only would fix that problem or would it just cause people to ignore plexes as they do now?
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.07.01 16:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Droog 1 You could control Q your way to all sorts of goodies. What about new players, who don't have alts, that join the Caldari? What is left for them?
Control Q still does not give you points...
Anyway, only way people will miss on LP points is if Gallentes stop plexing altogether. I dont see it happening.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Raimo
Gallente Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.07.01 17:03:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Raimo on 01/07/2009 17:03:23
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Droog 1 You could control Q your way to all sorts of goodies. What about new players, who don't have alts, that join the Caldari? What is left for them?
Control Q still does not give you points...
Anyway, only way people will miss on LP points is if Gallentes stop plexing altogether. I dont see it happening.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Which part of the "LP for player kills" bit did you miss? --- WOLFY is recruiting!
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.01 18:02:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 01/07/2009 18:03:30
Quote: Blobs are what kill FW. The area's we play in are not big enough to have 20 and 30 man blobs roaming around all day.
So since when exactly was a 20 men gang a blob? You can barely call it a fleet. When we get 500 people you may call it a blob.
Oh wait, nvm, my fault. A blob is any fleet larger than what you like to fly in. Basicly every fleet i have been in lately ended in a real fight against the caldari. But apparently i am killing FW by joining a fleet to fight caldari fleets, because your way is the only right way to play FW...
Yes the problem is that then that lone players get accidentlied by a 20 men fleet. And how is that different from that lone player who gets accidentlied by your 5 men fleet? He still dies without a chance to do anything. If you really think this way, you should let people go when you outnumber him.
So it doesnt matter if it is 20 vs 1 or 5 vs 1. But what about 20vs 5 instead of 5vs5? That will never happen, because those 5 should have one of them scouting (otherwise they deserve to die anyway). Now if you get four 5-men gangs instead of one 20-men gang, the only result is that you gank four times more solo targets who dont have a chance to defend themselves.
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Zach Donnell
Ghost-Busters
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Posted - 2009.07.01 18:05:00 -
[40]
Regarding the discussion about encouraging / discouraging blobbing by the distribution of the LP for a kill. It is a pretty simple fix.
Every ship should have the same LP reward per kill. But that reward is divided evenly among all parties. so a 20v20 would return the same LP for one person as a 1v1 kill. Whereas a 20v1 gank would result in nearly no LP for individual fleet members.
As for my opinions on this potential change, I think its a welcome one, however I will refrain from any judgements until CCP decides exactly how much a plex vs how much a kill is worth in LP. If its relatively the same, unfortunately the PvPer's aren't really going to be convinced to plex if there is still no BETTER reward than a kill gives.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.01 18:11:00 -
[41]
Quote: Every ship should have the same LP reward per kill. But that reward is divided evenly among all parties. so a 20v20 would return the same LP for one person as a 1v1 kill. Whereas a 20v1 gank would result in nearly no LP for individual fleet members.
Exactly this.
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FOl2TY8
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.07.01 18:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: Every ship should have the same LP reward per kill. But that reward is divided evenly among all parties. so a 20v20 would return the same LP for one person as a 1v1 kill. Whereas a 20v1 gank would result in nearly no LP for individual fleet members.
Exactly this.
This is pretty exploitable though. What's to stop me from putting an alt in the opposing faction and blowing him up over and over again? ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Zach Donnell
Ghost-Busters
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Posted - 2009.07.01 18:27:00 -
[43]
Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote: Every ship should have the same LP reward per kill. But that reward is divided evenly among all parties. so a 20v20 would return the same LP for one person as a 1v1 kill. Whereas a 20v1 gank would result in nearly no LP for individual fleet members.
Exactly this.
This is pretty exploitable though. What's to stop me from putting an alt in the opposing faction and blowing him up over and over again?
Why you are quoting my post, and Furb's response I am unsure, as its a problem that should be posed directly to CCP. However, with that being said, there is obviously no mention yet as to how much LP 1 kill will reward. If you join FW to spend all day blowing up an alt and get a 1000 rounds of Faction ammo then well...
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.01 21:20:00 -
[44]
Well, it seems my work on the CSM wasn't for nothing that CCP is now working hard to implementing things the CSM brought up.
Fuel bays for black ops, FW improvements, and a bunch of minor things. Good stuff. ---
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.07.02 07:45:00 -
[45]
I guess even if there are diminishing returns for flying in a bigger fleet than your target people will still do it, the logic being "I rather get 5 LP and keep my ship by flying in a blob than getting shot down trying to get 5000 solo". A perfect example of a good risk/reward ratio.
The "Kill my alt over and over" can be solved either by lowering LP for repeat killings of the same guy or make the LP you gain dependent on the rank the target has - the average alt will probably not be too high in the pecking order.
I don't like linking the rank to LP though as it makes the rank more a liability than a badge of honor and thus might cause people to refrain from plexing ("If I plex I get promoted, if I get promoted too much I become primary too often").
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Night Doc
Orekaria
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Posted - 2009.07.02 08:11:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Well, it seems my work on the CSM wasn't for nothing that CCP is now working hard to implementing things the CSM brought up.
Fuel bays for black ops, FW improvements, and a bunch of minor things. Good stuff.
you can't be so ingenuous, can you? - Target analysis - Fit EVE to screen - EFT setup sort |
rodensteiner
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Posted - 2009.07.02 16:28:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness I guess even if there are diminishing returns for flying in a bigger fleet than your target people will still do it, the logic being "I rather get 5 LP and keep my ship by flying in a blob than getting shot down trying to get 5000 solo". A perfect example of a good risk/reward ratio.
The "Kill my alt over and over" can be solved either by lowering LP for repeat killings of the same guy or make the LP you gain dependent on the rank the target has - the average alt will probably not be too high in the pecking order.
I don't like linking the rank to LP though as it makes the rank more a liability than a badge of honor and thus might cause people to refrain from plexing ("If I plex I get promoted, if I get promoted too much I become primary too often").
That'd be brilliant though! Never mind the relation to RL, where having a high rank can increase your likelyhood of being killed, but it would relate to the rest of the game, too. Think of NPC rats...the bigger/higher ranking rat, the higher the reward.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.02 16:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rodj Blake RKK announce that they're joining FW.
A few days later CCP announce that they're going to improve the rewards for FW.
Coincidence?
I thought the goons had the most devs now? Does this mean they kinda messed up their gameplay
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.02 16:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Well, it seems my work on the CSM wasn't for nothing that CCP is now working hard to implementing things the CSM brought up.
Fuel bays for black ops, FW improvements, and a bunch of minor things. Good stuff.
Its a decent start - but until we get the alliance participation in some way shape or form there's still a long way to go.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.07.02 16:52:00 -
[50]
Nice, soon we can have lp by shooting alts.
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.03 10:37:00 -
[51]
Waaiiit a minute. Will this actually encourage plexing? Because if the Gallente militia are still after kills, they can get LP from killing and forget about plexing...
-_-
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.03 11:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Mystafyre
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=672
Behold. It begins.
Yeah, like our profits wouldn't be small enough already from LP stores....
Quote: Meanwhile, in an effort to make Factional Warfare more fun, we are looking at introducing Loyalty Point rewards for kills and captures, with special LP stores for each militia, offering unique goodies for hard working militamen and women.
Reading comprehension is overrated anyway.
--- I smack just for myself.
* Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.07.03 11:16:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores Waaiiit a minute. Will this actually encourage plexing?
Your guess is as good as mine, but I'd say yes since it's a tangible reward over vague standings that have little impact.
But it will not change the outcome - in the long run the bigger sides (Caldari and Minmatar) will always overwhelm the smaller side since they simply can generate more victory points per hour. In fact I'm amazed that the Minmatar side does fare relatively bad against Amarr, but they're probably equally disinterested in plexing as the majority of the Gallente seem to be. THIS might change with a tangible reward system.
If CCP does not address this in some way I think they can already prepare the chronicles "Caldari dominate Gallente (again)" and "Minmatar conquer Amarr".
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.07.03 11:25:00 -
[54]
Who wants to bet that the LP for plex are far greater than that for kills?
It's w/e I guess. Unless CCP bring out Fleet +4 implant sets or something else extravagent I doubt I'll care. You guys do know the LP reward will have to be less than lvl 4's or the bears will whine.
Better than nothing but still I'd rather see a rework of the current 'sov-lite' system.
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Aestetica
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.03 15:16:00 -
[55]
Whaaa?
Im wondering why it is that FW should get 'special' rewards for killing others? My guess is that at least half of the FWers are in it for the kills (and if ur not, then stay away from the PvP part or FW in general). For them the goal is killing in itself. Same with others that like PvPing.
So maybe pirates should band together and start whining all over the forums, qissing and moaning until we too get some additional benefits... like free faction ammo and drones for every kill.
Im constantly amazed at how much is changed in this game due to whining. The devs have spines of rubber.
I hope the 'special' goodies u get for killing others in FW are seriously lame.
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.07.03 15:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Rodj Blake RKK announce that they're joining FW.
A few days later CCP announce that they're going to improve the rewards for FW.
Coincidence?
I was hoping they would solve the lag issue for BoB but this just makes much more sense.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.03 15:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Aestetica Whaaa?
Im wondering why it is that FW should get 'special' rewards for killing others? My guess is that at least half of the FWers are in it for the kills (and if ur not, then stay away from the PvP part or FW in general). For them the goal is killing in itself. Same with others that like PvPing.
So maybe pirates should band together and start whining all over the forums, qissing and moaning until we too get some additional benefits... like free faction ammo and drones for every kill.
Im constantly amazed at how much is changed in this game due to whining. The devs have spines of rubber.
I hope the 'special' goodies u get for killing others in FW are seriously lame.
People keep managing to amaze me with stupidity. 0.0 pvp'ers get their pvp benefits by ratting grounds, and more important high end moons they get via the pvp'ing, so they get (indirect) large isk benefits for pvp'ing.
Pirates mainly shoot on haulers (oh i am sure you just want 'good' pvp), ratters and in general everyone who wont shoot back and still have expensive stuff with them. And additionally they can ransom their targets (which would work if pirates would think more than 3 minutes in the future when they blow up the target they just got ransom from).
FW players dont have easy targets in general, no way they pay ransom, they are combat fitted, and with nothing better than t2 fitting. Deny it? Then why did we get all the pirates whining about FW killing their proffesion because we aren't profitable to attack? You get to make your isk via killing ratters and haulers, we do it via lp shop now. Get over it.
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Aestetica
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.03 16:00:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Aestetica on 03/07/2009 16:00:25
Originally by: Furb Killer
People keep managing to amaze me with stupidity. 0.0 pvp'ers get their pvp benefits by ratting grounds, and more important high end moons they get via the pvp'ing, so they get (indirect) large isk benefits for pvp'ing.
Pirates mainly shoot on haulers (oh i am sure you just want 'good' pvp), ratters and in general everyone who wont shoot back and still have expensive stuff with them. And additionally they can ransom their targets (which would work if pirates would think more than 3 minutes in the future when they blow up the target they just got ransom from).
FW players dont have easy targets in general, no way they pay ransom, they are combat fitted, and with nothing better than t2 fitting. Deny it? Then why did we get all the pirates whining about FW killing their proffesion because we aren't profitable to attack? You get to make your isk via killing ratters and haulers, we do it via lp shop now. Get over it.
I cant speak for other pirates, but we mostly kill FW - when theyre not flying their usual noobships and frig hulls. So we're in the same boat as u, except FW also get to kill us, who fit the good stuff. When have u last seen a low-sec ratter with good fittings?
And the good haulers are far bewtween since theyre scared of all the people now in low-sec.
I think the pirate profession is a fair bit harder to live off than it is for the FWers and their possibility to do mission :).
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.03 16:06:00 -
[59]
Quote:
I cant speak for other pirates, but we mostly kill FW - when theyre not flying their usual noobships and frig hulls. So we're in the same boat as u, except FW also get to kill us, who fit the good stuff. When have u last seen a low-sec ratter with good fittings?
And the good haulers are far bewtween since theyre scared of all the people now in low-sec.
I think the pirate profession is a fair bit harder to live off than it is for the FWers and their possibility to do mission :).
So pirates fit the good stuff? The only pirates i know who faction fit their ships also make sure they never leave RR range of the capitals docked in the station they camp.
Low sec ratters have no good fittings, but some of them do use expensive fittings. Why would haulers be scared of all the people in low sec? Main influx comes from FW people who scare the pirates away, so it is only safer for them. Sure you dont get that many good haulers, but you get them, we dont get them. And if you shoot FW'ers only anyway, join the militia and stop whining. Pirates are supposed to shoot haulers and ransom them, that you decide to shoot FW'ers is your problem, not ours.
And pirates can also mission (low sec or on the alt 90% of the pirates have). And the others just sell plexes for their isk. But pirates can at least make some money with their pirating, we cant with FW.
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Aestetica
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.03 16:20:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Furb Killer
So pirates fit the good stuff? The only pirates i know who faction fit their ships also make sure they never leave RR range of the capitals docked in the station they camp.
Low sec ratters have no good fittings, but some of them do use expensive fittings. Why would haulers be scared of all the people in low sec? Main influx comes from FW people who scare the pirates away, so it is only safer for them. Sure you dont get that many good haulers, but you get them, we dont get them. And if you shoot FW'ers only anyway, join the militia and stop whining. Pirates are supposed to shoot haulers and ransom them, that you decide to shoot FW'ers is your problem, not ours.
And pirates can also mission (low sec or on the alt 90% of the pirates have). And the others just sell plexes for their isk. But pirates can at least make some money with their pirating, we cant with FW.
Meh, cant be bothered to turn this into a long winded discussion. Clearly we see things differently.
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