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Athena Tarsis
Minmatar Sarz'na Khumatari Damu'Khonde
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Posted - 2010.09.09 02:10:00 -
[2191]
I never did invest in T4U, though it wasn't for lack of trying. The timing just never worked out right.
I hope he enjoys his lulz-isk, because it cost him his reputation, perceived maturity, and dignity. There just isn't enough isk to buy that from me.
Congratulations to Bobby. Where once he was a respected player, a rare find in the Eve universe, he's opted to disappoint everyone and reveal himself as just another liar -- common as dirt. --
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Abighail
Best of the SS
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Posted - 2010.09.09 03:18:00 -
[2192]
Edited by: Abighail on 09/09/2010 03:20:28 Edited by: Abighail on 09/09/2010 03:18:51
Originally by: Bad Bobby
I've bumped the T4U sales thread with a fair portion of my alt army over the time it's been there. I suppose if nobody complains then nobody cares.
Anyway, back to the point at hand...
...
Originally by: Emmgel I hold 20,000 shares, and am not part of the 40% BB mentions. I would vote against liquidation
Suspect that forms a majority of the shareholding...
Emmgel
I was eating dinner to day and thought I'd browse this thread from the beginning. I'm still wondering why you guys were orgasming over this IPO for the first 45 pages giving million and million away with practically every post. But I found this on one page. Perhaps BB's alts stirred you in your hot passion..?
I don't know but you guys are ****ing stupid each and everyone of you. This thread is ****ing hilarious. You just can't make up ******ation like this up. MD is ... like 'gifted and talented' program in a school for the mentally handicapped. You think you have a monocom of intelligence but fail horribly and evarrisgly.
Some did get a weird gelling I remember and one or two even backed out. I'm wondering how nobody else sensed something off about all this by at least page 5....
Seriously.. if you were one of the people who invested... youu should stop thinking about anything money related in this game, you're best suited for mining.
You were scammed by alts and bobby's friends. In the most obvious fashion. Also I posted in a thread yesterday that you guys might want to look at if you happen to have anything else invested right now.
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Originally by: Abighail Edited by: Abighail on 08/09/2010 07:41:02 Edited by: Abighail on 08/09/2010 07:38:23
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Aattos Invested without audit. If scammed...
Ini is sound as a pound, so I don't think you need to start looking for suitable ledges.
Obviously you've made that determination already and hence your investment. I've demonstrated the level of trust I have for him and the value I associate with my in-game friendship with him by putting 3 billion on the table. It just so happened that 3 bill was what I had loose in my wallet at the time. If the wallet had read 9 billion then Ini would have got the lot. You may all take that as a character reference.
[ lol
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Roger Kiyosaki
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.09.09 13:05:00 -
[2193]
Originally by: Abighail stuffz
I appreciate the attempt but you need to work on your trolling skills quite a bit.
Go grow a nose in the mean time.
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Scott Ryder
Amarr art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2010.09.09 19:22:00 -
[2194]
Originally by: Athena Tarsis I never did invest in T4U, though it wasn't for lack of trying. The timing just never worked out right.
I hope he enjoys his lulz-isk, because it cost him his reputation, perceived maturity, and dignity. There just isn't enough isk to buy that from me.
Congratulations to Bobby. Where once he was a respected player, a rare find in the Eve universe, he's opted to disappoint everyone and reveal himself as just another liar -- common as dirt.
qft
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israus
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.09.09 20:04:00 -
[2195]
Originally by: Athena Tarsis I never did invest in T4U, though it wasn't for lack of trying. The timing just never worked out right.
I hope he enjoys his lulz-isk, because it cost him his reputation, perceived maturity, and dignity. There just isn't enough isk to buy that from me.
Congratulations to Bobby. Where once he was a respected player, a rare find in the Eve universe, he's opted to disappoint everyone and reveal himself as just another liar -- common as dirt.
he's done what everybody in eve looks to do and thats make as much money as possable.
fact is he was allowed into the a situation where he could scam through MD's blind trust. blind because he was never audited and people threw billions at him. blind for the fact nobody picked up on the fact the trustee system in place was so **** poor.
the whole system MD uses to protect itself was either ignored by investors or allowed to fall apart by trustee's not keeping a watchful eye.
bobby managed to create the situation with the help of the very people he was scamming so well done to bobby because it won't be the last time this happens because there to many people on here who just want to throw money at anybody who promises a return.
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.09 21:32:00 -
[2196]
WTB T4U shares as a collectors item. Convo or mail me in game :)
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Athena Tarsis
Minmatar Sarz'na Khumatari Damu'Khonde
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Posted - 2010.09.09 22:07:00 -
[2197]
Originally by: israus
Originally by: Athena Tarsis I never did invest in T4U, though it wasn't for lack of trying. The timing just never worked out right.
I hope he enjoys his lulz-isk, because it cost him his reputation, perceived maturity, and dignity. There just isn't enough isk to buy that from me.
Congratulations to Bobby. Where once he was a respected player, a rare find in the Eve universe, he's opted to disappoint everyone and reveal himself as just another liar -- common as dirt.
he's done what everybody in eve looks to do and thats make as much money as possable.
fact is he was allowed into the a situation where he could scam through MD's blind trust. blind because he was never audited and people threw billions at him. blind for the fact nobody picked up on the fact the trustee system in place was so **** poor.
the whole system MD uses to protect itself was either ignored by investors or allowed to fall apart by trustee's not keeping a watchful eye.
bobby managed to create the situation with the help of the very people he was scamming so well done to bobby because it won't be the last time this happens because there to many people on here who just want to throw money at anybody who promises a return.
I will agree this should be a learning experience, with the denizens of MD becoming more vigilant as a result.
That said, just because someone makes it easy to steal from them doesn't make it ok to do so; it's still stealing. --
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Lucyna
Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.09.09 22:20:00 -
[2198]
Originally by: Abighail A bunch of rotten *******s
Cool story bro. Didn't you just try to make an 8B bond in here? If we are so stupid, why could you not outsmart us and get our money? Die in a fire in the game.
Also, you just lost The Game. _________ Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;) |
israus
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.09.09 23:00:00 -
[2199]
Originally by: Athena Tarsis
I will agree this should be a learning experience, with the denizens of MD becoming more vigilant as a result.
That said, just because someone makes it easy to steal from them doesn't make it ok to do so; it's still stealing.
I dont think i said it was ok for him to do, just congratulated him on it. fact is bobby is just 1 in long chain. these large bonds, IPO, Banks all end up in scam. because it always comes to a point where the people involved in them see the large pie before there eyes and just can't help themselves.
but the good folks in here keep serving up those pie's so I don't see the great need for condemning bobby for what he did my view is that if it wasn't him somebody else would have done something simlair.
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari The Price of Darkness
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Posted - 2010.09.10 00:38:00 -
[2200]
Originally by: Athena Tarsis That said, just because someone makes it easy to steal from them doesn't make it ok to do so; it's still stealing.
After years of reading these forums I've developed the personal opinion that most people who come to EVE Online expecting their personal morality to be reciprocated will ultimately be sorely disappointed.
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Dzil
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.10 12:19:00 -
[2201]
Edited by: Dzil on 10/09/2010 12:22:21 edit: fixed a quoting fail
Originally by: israus
my view is that if it wasn't him somebody else would have done something simlair.
In fact, had Cosmoray's shares not existed, any of the trustees could have grabbed the other 600 shares and created at worst a stalemate situation (his 800 vs the combined 800 of the other directors), and with a single missed vote on the remaining trustee's part executed a corporate theft of his own. This may be why none of the trustees said anything about the danger of the 600 share creation: it could well be one of them was prepared to sell out for 5 Titan BPOs, and BB just had a better hand. In particular, BB mentioned that PP was consistently logged in on his super secret director alt, even though it was agreed that should remain unsubbed unless a crisis broke.
Of course, right now we just don't know. To wildly accuse any of these trusted MD Elite of such intentions would of course be frowned upon, yet meanwhile when one runs off with the mill everyone's quick to point out all these red flags and how obvious it was. You know how the saying goes... hindsight is 20-20.
Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :) |
Emmgel
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Posted - 2010.09.10 15:12:00 -
[2202]
@ Abighail
I'm not sure what has prompted you to spray your, admittedly lukewarm, bile in my direction. You know nothing of my financial affairs, personal affairs, business dealings or history. I will simply therefore request that in future you regard both my personal and business practices as being quite outside the province of either your commentary or your criticism.
Mind you, given your own description of yourself as being Best of the SS - a bunch of automatonistic murderous racist thugs - it appears from that brief snapshot (which given your insignificance is all the information I can be bothered to gather) that your standards of personal and business conduct are likely to be as shabby as your febrile attempt at hindsight quasi-journalism.
Here's a pile of hot coals for your head. Does it burn?
Emmgel
P.S I hope the shares you bought from my alt two days after the last dividend brought you as much pleasure as I think they did. If you want, I'm happy to offer you 0.1 ISK per share to buy them back, purely for the sake of granting me the pleasure of having made over ten million times profit off you in less than a month for an identical commodity.
P.P.S Does it burn now?
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Kapila Parthalan
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Posted - 2010.09.10 15:58:00 -
[2203]
Originally by: Dzil Edited by: Dzil on 10/09/2010 12:22:21 edit: fixed a quoting fail
Originally by: israus
my view is that if it wasn't him somebody else would have done something simlair.
In fact, had Cosmoray's shares not existed, any of the trustees could have grabbed the other 600 shares and created at worst a stalemate situation (his 800 vs the combined 800 of the other directors), and with a single missed vote on the remaining trustee's part executed a corporate theft of his own. This may be why none of the trustees said anything about the danger of the 600 share creation: it could well be one of them was prepared to sell out for 5 Titan BPOs, and BB just had a better hand. In particular, BB mentioned that PP was consistently logged in on his super secret director alt, even though it was agreed that should remain unsubbed unless a crisis broke.
Of course, right now we just don't know. To wildly accuse any of these trusted MD Elite of such intentions would of course be frowned upon, yet meanwhile when one runs off with the mill everyone's quick to point out all these red flags and how obvious it was. You know how the saying goes... hindsight is 20-20.
There are a number of reasons this would not have worked. Firstly, Bad Bobby could and in fact did remove the directors' roles, thus preventing them from grabbing any unlocked items or new shares. Even if a trustee had taken the 600 shares, his roles could be removed then and the remaining members could presumably unlock the BPOs one at a time and lock them in a different corp or liquidate them. The trustee with 50% of the shares could try to block this, but he has no good reason to since he can't steal them and now the stalemate favors the remaining directors instead of the thief.
(I'm not quite sure what happens when someone has exactly 50% of the vote. Do votes require at least 50% or more than 50%?)
As I talked about earlier, the CEO poses a much greater threat than the other trustees, who do not even need to have director roles to prevent unlocks or liquidate.
I think Bad Bobby said it was AC155, not PP, that had a consistently subbed director alt.
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Michela
Bosun Shipyards
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Posted - 2010.09.11 02:58:00 -
[2204]
Originally by: Cobalt Sixty After years of reading these forums I've developed the personal opinion that most people who come to EVE Online expecting their personal morality to be reciprocated will ultimately be sorely disappointed.
After four years in EVE ... and a significant amount of time lurking in this forum ... this is probably the one of the most accurate statements I've seen here in a long time. |
Mella Elcus
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Posted - 2010.09.12 02:12:00 -
[2205]
Originally by: Athena Tarsis I hope he enjoys his lulz-isk, because it cost him his reputation, perceived maturity, and dignity. There just isn't enough isk to buy that from me.
Oh yeah, he lost all his (anonymous) dignity and perceived maturity on the internet spaceship forum. I mean seriously, if that wouldn't make you want to kill yourself, what would?
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Horak Thor
I.M.M Session Changes
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Posted - 2010.09.21 01:58:00 -
[2206]
posting to be part of lol thread [url=http://www.enquilon.com/omg/killboard4/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=60783] [/url] |
oil
Double-L
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Posted - 2010.09.21 04:54:00 -
[2207]
so would you do business dealings based on trust with the person behind bad bobby in reall life if u knew about his connection to this here?
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2010.09.21 14:19:00 -
[2208]
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan Many people have been confused about how the trustees would prevent theft if Bad Bobby had tried to scam without having enough shares (including the trustees themselves). Estel has explained that the trustees can indeed prevent a stalemate: stuff
Last time I checked, the CEO has ultimate power over everything. As to the BPO's, he can take directors' roles without any confirmation, and then simply allow the rent on the office to lapse. Once the rent has lapsed, for a one-time cost, he can release the office's contents from impound directly into his personal hangar. Needless to say, the BPO's that tumble out of impound will no longer be locked.
Unless a game mechanic has changed considerably, the trustees were for the HBAB scenario only. The way they were set up was to prevent collusion between them resulting in a "hostile takeover"; preventing Bad Bobby as CEO from scamming was impossible no matter how many shares they held.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compressionexpansion! WTF? |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2010.09.21 14:24:00 -
[2209]
Originally by: oil so would you do business dealings based on trust with the person behind bad bobby in reall life if u knew about his connection to this here?
No. Here's my thinking: I'd happily have a drink with him, as he seems like an interesting fellow, and he might even make a decent friend, but I wouldn't ask him to hold on to a bunch of hundred-dollar bills that I hadn't gotten around to counting yet while I used the loo, nor would I introduce him to my daughter. Chribba, on the other hand....
All joking aside, for the record, I didn't lose a penny on this. But that's not because of some superior intellect or judgment; I've just stopped investing in people I can't punch in the face without buying a plane ticket.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compressionexpansion! WTF? |
Dzil
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.21 14:30:00 -
[2210]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan Many people have been confused about how the trustees would prevent theft if Bad Bobby had tried to scam without having enough shares (including the trustees themselves). Estel has explained that the trustees can indeed prevent a stalemate: stuff
Last time I checked, the CEO has ultimate power over everything. As to the BPO's, he can take directors' roles without any confirmation, and then simply allow the rent on the office to lapse. Once the rent has lapsed, for a one-time cost, he can release the office's contents from impound directly into his personal hangar. Needless to say, the BPO's that tumble out of impound will no longer be locked.
Unless a game mechanic has changed considerably, the trustees were for the HBAB scenario only. The way they were set up was to prevent collusion between them resulting in a "hostile takeover"; preventing Bad Bobby as CEO from scamming was impossible no matter how many shares they held.
MP
You may be right. Nonetheless I seem to recall during the setup phase some articulate plan involving releasing one Titan BPO at a time, locking it, then another. Part of this may have been due to the slow process of gathering 250 billion isk from investors, but I'd thought part was supposedly to ensure he didn't just walk with the isk at the start. Of course if as you claim is true, it was all for show only.
Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :) |
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.21 14:39:00 -
[2211]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan Many people have been confused about how the trustees would prevent theft if Bad Bobby had tried to scam without having enough shares (including the trustees themselves). Estel has explained that the trustees can indeed prevent a stalemate: stuff
Last time I checked, the CEO has ultimate power over everything. As to the BPO's, he can take directors' roles without any confirmation, and then simply allow the rent on the office to lapse. Once the rent has lapsed, for a one-time cost, he can release the office's contents from impound directly into his personal hangar. Needless to say, the BPO's that tumble out of impound will no longer be locked.
Unless a game mechanic has changed considerably, the trustees were for the HBAB scenario only. The way they were set up was to prevent collusion between them resulting in a "hostile takeover"; preventing Bad Bobby as CEO from scamming was impossible no matter how many shares they held.
MP
It turns out that this is not the case. See Estel's posts earlier in the thread (p. 72-3). The corp could have been set up in a way that would have prevented the stalemate situation you refer to. This wouldn't have actually helped in this case, though, due to the botched share creation but in principle it seems that this offering could have been properly secured. However, until Estel pointed them out it seems that no one involved was au fait with the relevant mechanics.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.21 15:22:00 -
[2212]
There has been a basic error which would have lead to the scam to succeed sooner or later.
Everyone (involved) believed in BB's trustworthiness.
Everything was made to fit on this assumption, even the trustees were just appendices whose main reason to exist was to secure the assets in case of BB's inability to play any more.
I.e. BB was so good that people believed that it'd be easier for him to die (and they managed that) than scam.
Until the mentality stays like this, you can implement all the mechanisms you want that a security hole will be found and exploited. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Kapila Parthalan
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Posted - 2010.09.22 04:16:00 -
[2213]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet Last time I checked, the CEO has ultimate power over everything. As to the BPO's, he can take directors' roles without any confirmation, and then simply allow the rent on the office to lapse. Once the rent has lapsed, for a one-time cost, he can release the office's contents from impound directly into his personal hangar. Needless to say, the BPO's that tumble out of impound will no longer be locked.
Unless a game mechanic has changed considerably, the trustees were for the HBAB scenario only. The way they were set up was to prevent collusion between them resulting in a "hostile takeover"; preventing Bad Bobby as CEO from scamming was impossible no matter how many shares they held.
MP
There are a few key things the CEO can't do. Even if the directors' roles are removed, the trustees can initiate a CEO takeover as long as the characters hold at least 5% shares. I think that earlier posts mentioned that assets released the way you describe are still locked down, or that this is considered an exploit, although I'm not clear on this. The discussion prior to launch clearly indicated that trustees were to avert theft as well as HBAB, and yes, they could have stopped BB if they had been more careful.
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GavinCapacitor
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Posted - 2010.09.30 18:29:00 -
[2214]
Well, this sucks. Still, as a first (and last) venture into investing into things, having it be the biggest scam in the history of eve is something I guess. And if I ever feel the need to try investing in something again, I can just go to my wallet and look at those t4u shares.
Man, with all that money... you could sub several accounts from now until the end of eve...
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
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Posted - 2010.09.30 18:40:00 -
[2215]
Originally by: GavinCapacitor Well, this sucks. Still, as a first (and last) venture into investing into things, having it be the biggest scam in the history of eve is something I guess. And if I ever feel the need to try investing in something again, I can just go to my wallet and look at those t4u shares.
Man, with all that money... you could sub several accounts from now until the end of eve...
Nowhere near the largest scam in eve history, if that makes you feel any better. Grendell ♥
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.30 18:44:00 -
[2216]
Originally by: Grendell
Originally by: GavinCapacitor Well, this sucks. Still, as a first (and last) venture into investing into things, having it be the biggest scam in the history of eve is something I guess. And if I ever feel the need to try investing in something again, I can just go to my wallet and look at those t4u shares.
Man, with all that money... you could sub several accounts from now until the end of eve...
Nowhere near the largest scam in eve history, if that makes you feel any better.
Kick the man while he's down, why don't you!
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.09.30 18:45:00 -
[2217]
Originally by: Grendell Nowhere near the largest scam in eve history, if that makes you feel any better.
I'm glad to see that Grendell is keeping track of this.
Um, wait . . .
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Business Classy
Business Class Investments
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Posted - 2010.09.30 19:09:00 -
[2218]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Originally by: Grendell Nowhere near the largest scam in eve history, if that makes you feel any better.
I'm glad to see that Grendell is keeping track of this.
Um, wait . . .
Hehe I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought something like that
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
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Posted - 2010.09.30 20:12:00 -
[2219]
I've been around since the start of eve, so it's not a matter keeping track. These sort of things happen in eve, and I just remember them.
Despite some of the old publicly known scams there's also a lot of scams that haven gone unnoticed behind closed doors. Some of these never got to the public because sadly it was done between friends.
If you think the public scams are low or below the belt, you'd be shocked how cruel and deceitful a scam can be between friends. I've had a friends scam each other, I've had friends scam me.
It's those events that made me as paranoid as I am today.
Grendell ♥
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.30 21:19:00 -
[2220]
Originally by: Grendell I've been around since the start of eve, so it's not a matter keeping track. These sort of things happen in eve, and I just remember them.
Despite some of the old publicly known scams there's also a lot of scams that haven gone unnoticed behind closed doors. Some of these never got to the public because sadly it was done between friends.
If you think the public scams are low or below the belt, you'd be shocked how cruel and deceitful a scam can be between friends. I've had a friends scam each other, I've had friends scam me.
It's those events that made me as paranoid as I am today.
Yep, this is EVE, the question is not "Are you paranoid?". The question is "Are you paranoid enough?".
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