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Arcane Azmadi
Caldari First Flying Wing Inc Primary.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 16:00:00 -
[1]
The skill system in EVE is divisive; some people think it's a brilliant aversion of the exp grinding which pervades other games, others think it's a boring system meant to force you to stay subscribed for longer whether you're actually playing or not. Either way, the system is iconic and cannot be majorly changed.
However, probably the biggest sticking point is the training time of level V skills. As training times increase 5x with each subsequent level, even a lowly rank 1 skill will take at least 3 days (unless you're SERIOUSLY min/maxing your stats) and high-ranking ones can take months. This is generally annoying, but at least you can see the point when it's a prerequisite skill to use, for example, a new ship. On the other hand, a lot of skills are just fundamentally not worth it to get level V; for example, Signature Focusing is quite useful if you do a lot of EWar, but level V takes about 3 weeks to train for the same 5% bonus as the previous 4 levels, which took less than a week combined for a total bonus of 20%. Basically, if it wasn't for prerequisites there would be very few skills which are useful enough to justify taking the 5th level -maybe a quarter of them- and a lot of the ones that ARE prerequisites are REALLY annoying, since they're borderline useless for anything else (I'm rather hung up on the 2 weeks of sitting on my ass it'll take me just to train Propulsion Jamming V, SOLELY to use an Interdiction Sphere Launcher, but which only gives me a pathetic 5% reduction to propulsion jamming costs, which are pretty much irrelevant already).
So my proposal is simple- to reward players for going the extra mile to train a skill to level V, I suggest doubling the bonus gain for that level- for example, Signature Focusing V would give a 10% bonus to ECM strength rather than the usual 5%. Of course, I'm not suggesting to be applied indiscriminitely to all skills, that would be stupid. If it would be too much to apply to some skills (Drone Interfacing, for example) it could be less, say a 50% greater increase, or if the skill is one of the few useful enough as it is to justify taking it to V purely on its own merits (and would risk being unbalanced with this bonus, for example Engineering) then it could be skipped. And obviously this bonus would not affect the ships themselves as the bonus per skill level is inherent in the ship, not the skill. If appropriately balanced I feel this proposal would give the proper incentive to encourage people to take skills like Large Blaster Specialization V, which they would otherwise not even consider until they had literally nothing better left to train. |
wert668
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Posted - 2009.06.25 16:05:00 -
[2]
Thanks NO. |
Arcane Azmadi
Caldari First Flying Wing Inc Primary.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 16:17:00 -
[3]
Originally by: wert668 Thanks NO.
Why not? |
wert668
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Posted - 2009.06.25 16:24:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
Originally by: wert668 Thanks NO.
Why not?
Because if you want be better than lvl4 you need spend some time to learn. And lvl4 is almost end of the road, you are almost done you don't have space to improve more = only 5%. |
Arcane Azmadi
Caldari First Flying Wing Inc Primary.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 16:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: wert668
Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
Originally by: wert668 Thanks NO.
Why not?
Because if you want be better than lvl4 you need spend some time to learn. And lvl4 is almost end of the road, you are almost done you don't have space to improve more = only 5%.
Uh... all I see is that you completely failed to grasp my point. |
wert668
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Posted - 2009.06.25 16:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
Originally by: wert668
Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
Originally by: wert668 Thanks NO.
Why not?
Because if you want be better than lvl4 you need spend some time to learn. And lvl4 is almost end of the road, you are almost done you don't have space to improve more = only 5%.
Uh... all I see is that you completely failed to grasp my point.
And you mine |
Zenethalos
Minmatar Noir.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 17:16:00 -
[7]
The reward to training something to level five is usually the access to new t2 gear. Allthough some of that was nurfed back in the day where only lvl 4 is required. The majority of mods still need lvl 5 to be trained in order to access the t2 variant which is enough of a reward. |
Syringe
R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 17:19:00 -
[8]
I'ma have to say no on this one too.
If you want to have that extra edge over the next guy, you gotta work for it. What you're saying is "I want that 5% without the effort". No. Not to mention how ridiculously unbalancing it would be to a lot of the skills. That little extra percentage can toss some of these numbers WAY out of proportion. |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.06.25 17:51:00 -
[9]
No, lvl 5 gives you better bonuses than most people have access to, and in some cases makes the ship you fly that much easier. (Example: Freighters lvl 5, Covert Ops lvl 5, etc)
No support.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Jin Labarre
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Posted - 2009.06.25 19:01:00 -
[10]
Doesn't make any sense to me.
When skill X gives Y% per level, training it to level 5 yields an additional Y% boost. That is enough, that is balanced and makes sense.
If you are arguing based on the character you are posting with and if that is your main, I can understand how you came to such ideas. With 6-7 months character age you have likely just hit the second peak in the character development frustration curve and probably suffer from the usual symptoms of the CDFC-syndrome. It gets better again.
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Oam Mkoll
Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.25 19:48:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Oam Mkoll on 25/06/2009 19:49:45 Edited by: Oam Mkoll on 25/06/2009 19:48:51 NO.
While it's tempting, this would be too much of an advantage. There's already a lot you can do to improve your chances in EVE. Implants, boosters, gang bonuses and warfare links, deadspace and officer loot..
Skill level 5, just like the above, is that "extra effort" which you do not have to get. Unlike all of the above, skill level 5 is permanent and you don't need to pay extra.
Unless it's also a requirement for a next skill/ship. In that case the bonus you get is pretty much icing on the cake and the time you're doing is there to "show your dedication to the cause". You need to take your time before you can be let into the inner circle :). And I'll take that any day over mindless grinding of other games.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Coalition of Free Stars
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Posted - 2009.06.26 04:42:00 -
[12]
Part of the genius of the system is the diminishing returns. It's why newbies can compete with vets - a guy with 1M SP can fly a T1 frig about 2/3 as well as a guy with 100M SP, instead of 1% as well. You need more SP put into a field to be less efficient than the early SP investments, because otherwise you're playing Old Players Online. If you have enough time to take a skill to 5 - and believe me, a lot of players do - you have enough time to spend that effort even if it's only as good as level 1 was.
Not supported. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.26 06:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Part of the genius of the system is the diminishing returns. It's why newbies can compete with vets - a guy with 1M SP can fly a T1 frig about 2/3 as well as a guy with 100M SP, instead of 1% as well. You need more SP put into a field to be less efficient than the early SP investments, because otherwise you're playing Old Players Online. If you have enough time to take a skill to 5 - and believe me, a lot of players do - you have enough time to spend that effort even if it's only as good as level 1 was.
Not supported.
This.
Horrible idea not supported. |
Amasai
Starfire Oasis Thalion Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.06.26 11:43:00 -
[14]
I think this is a good Idea over all and could be very balanced. however the problems are in the details of your proposal and the main reason you dont have ANY votes at this point.
if this was applied in the opposite fashion of what you are suggesting it could work you are saying most skills should get a level 5 boost, with a few being left alone for balance, but actually for it to be balanced and not screw everything up, it would apply to very select skills and not any others
for ccp to figure out which skills should get this level 5 bonus would take going over the entire skill system and looking at many, many different situations, then forum discussions and talks with us the player base, and thats before any programing or anything technical |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.06.26 13:11:00 -
[15]
Herschel covered the main reasons why I am also echoing the no votes.
An additional reason is game balance. Not only would CCP have to go over the entire skill tree to identify which skills 'qualify' for the boost, they would then have to evaluate each of those skills and their effects on in game ships, modules, and other effects to make sure they don't unbalance the game. |
RaveNight
Amarr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.26 14:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: De'Veldrin Herschel covered the main reasons why I am also echoing the no votes.
An additional reason is game balance. Not only would CCP have to go over the entire skill tree to identify which skills 'qualify' for the boost, they would then have to evaluate each of those skills and their effects on in game ships, modules, and other effects to make sure they don't unbalance the game.
Agreed. No.
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Verys
The Black Ops Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.26 14:33:00 -
[17]
Herschel pretty much covered it and therefore not support.
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Fille Balle
Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.06.26 17:08:00 -
[18]
Oh yes! Please! Want that, make it so that older players have even more advantages! That's brilliant.
Btw, you're mistaken when you say: 5% extra. It's never 5% or 3% or 2% extra, it's 25% instead of 20%. Believe me, it's different. And besides, look at it this way:
small hybrids lvl5, 25% extra dmg surgical strike lvl5, 15% extra dmg, total: 40%
Now add rail spec. lvl4, total 48% Increase it to 5, and the total is 50%
Trust me, it makes a diference. Not to say that MOAR bonus is bad. |
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