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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.17 05:49:00 -
[1]
I'm planning on using a Maelstrom for L4s till I can get into a Vargur (been using the Mael for tougher L4 missions, can solo the Angels Extravaganza 3 bonus room just fine, and Vargur is only about a month and a half away).
I am curious if this will work- I am running an AC/AB Mael with an XL booster, 4 hardeners, and (coming soon) t2 guns and Minmatar Battleship 5 (last I checked I was 2-ish days away from Minnie BS 5).
Mael, L4 Minnie mission runner:
High: 8x Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery, faction-specific ammo
Mid: 2x Invulnerability Field II 2x mission specific hardener II 1x XL Shield Booster II 1x 100mn Afterburner II
Low: 3x Gyrostabilizer II 1x Tracking Enhancer II 1x Power Diagnostic System
Rig: 3x CCC I
Drones: 5x mission specific medium drones (either Hammerhead IIs or Valk IIs) 10x mission specific light drones (Hobgob II or Warrior II)
Implants: 'Squire' CR4 'Squire'CC4 'Gunslinger' LX-1 'Gunslinger'CX-1
I already have all the hardware needed, just need some advice =)
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.06.17 05:54:00 -
[2]
Replace one invuln with a target painter, you'll hit stuff easier and kill it before it kills you.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.17 06:05:00 -
[3]
Noted. I'll test that out. Would replacing the PDS with another tracking enhancer work as well?
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Boydsan DeZinj
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Posted - 2009.06.17 06:08:00 -
[4]
Why use an invulnerability field at all? Unless you are facing drones. Stick with rat specific defenses - in my opinion. I agree, a TP can makes a big difference. |
Magnus Castaneus
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:14:00 -
[5]
If you are facing angels, then that is a perfect setup. But, I would replace the 3 CCCs with 2 CD safeguards and some other rig, maybe projectile, to save on the cap, the money, and the DPS. Also, I use 6 medium drones and 8 light drones just in case one of the medium drones pops. |
Alpha India
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Posted - 2009.06.17 11:57:00 -
[6]
Jordan, I wonder how much bullets you go through for a regular 5 gate run of Angel E (no bonus room)? And wonder how long it takes you to kill all the enemies?
I understand skill training has everything to do with it, but the set up you use, would be somewhat the same as I'd use.
You can send me a message in game. |
Constable Detritus
death from above..
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Magnus Castaneus If you are facing angels, then that is a perfect setup. But, I would replace the 3 CCCs with 2 CD safeguards and some other rig, maybe projectile, to save on the cap, the money, and the DPS. Also, I use 6 medium drones and 8 light drones just in case one of the medium drones pops.
I run a very similar setup to OP's, with the exception of 2x Proj Ambit rigs and a Cap safeguard(SB cap use). Instead of PDS and TE I use 2 Cap Flux Coils.
I switched from triple CCC, TE + DCU, 1200 arty setup and did not regret it (yet)*. Long range Serpentis (>40km) can be a PITA, but then I just fit for long range if I expect those.
*I just hate having to fly shopping for ammo after every mission
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.17 17:03:00 -
[8]
Good luck running autocannons with no ambit rigs, and better yet, no barrage. |
Elric Redeye
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2009.06.17 17:42:00 -
[9]
Your setup might work (and very close to mine) but for PvE I much prefer 1200 arty in my Mael (better magazine capacity than 1400's). I don't have to tank as much since much of the time I'm kiting at 44 km (to let my drones join the party) and out of rat damage range. The hardener mix varies a lot by mission. For some I run 3x and an amp. Some really need 4x hardeners because the damage is so mixed.
I also run less cap stable, trading that PDS you have for a 2nd TE in low.
In terms of tank I only really HAD to warp out of the 2nd Serpentis room in Worlds Collide so far. Something was eating me alive, maybe incorrectly hardened. But I do have to manage my tank closely to not cap out. |
Galan Undris
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Galan Undris on 17/06/2009 18:50:02 Highs: 8 arties of choice mids: shield tank + AB + 0-1 [misc] lows: 3x Gyro, 2x TE
Target Painter on the PVE-Mealstrom isn't that good tbh. The small stuff where it'd matter dies too quickly to even half my guns (usually split my guns with 2 per frig, 4 per cruiser at range and they still insta-pop), and the big stuff isn't much of an issue. I'd much rather have a TC with range script in any spare mid, even if it stacks against the TEs. Ability to take out the small stuff before tracking becomes an issue is the key. Trying to track an orbiting cruiser wont work, no matter how many tracking mods you have.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.18 00:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Good luck running autocannons with no ambit rigs, and better yet, no barrage.
I'm not that concerned about it, tbh. I actually have some very nice mods attached to this thing ingame, this is just the t2 equivalent of the setup. RF gyros, RF TE, and a Domination afterburner make it so I really don't care too much. I'm interested in making ISK but the game isn't going anywhere, so there's no rush. |
Anda Chiyo
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Posted - 2009.06.18 00:49:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Anda Chiyo on 18/06/2009 00:53:34
Originally by: AstroPhobic Good luck running autocannons with no ambit rigs, and better yet, no barrage.
Not a nice way to put it w/o providing further information, but exactly.
Do not use autocannons on level 4 missions until:
a. You can fly a Vargur (falloff bonus+don't forget to fit ambits). b. You can use T2 autocannons (barrage will be your best friend).
Here's a sample setup for a Maelstrom to get you started. You can customize to your taste, skills+bankroll (meta/T2/faction...etc), as well as per individual missions. It's fairly cookie cutter.
[Maelstrom, New Setup 1] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 100MN Afterburner II
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
-1200's, while lacking the 1400's alpha are easier to fit, and give you almost as much DPS and better tracking. -Drones: 6*mediums, 8* lights. As already said it's nice to have an extra medium just in case. -The invulnerability's are there just as place holders. Match to npc damage type (although for Angels, they're not a bad idea). -You can drop either the painter or the AB for more tank (hardener/cap recharger/booster)if you're not sure about the mission (rather err on side of caution if new to level 4's). |
Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:01:00 -
[13]
I use ACs without ambits fine, just... use the AB a lot, and manually pilot a lot, helps to have good anticipation & know the missions ( or just do missions you know ). I guess it also helps to only use it for angels. Large arty boats are so painful I'd rather go stab myself or mine or something equally horrid.
If you don't care about cash semi memory cells work better than CCCs. Also 95% of the time you don't need 4 hardeners, stick something gun-enhancing on ( where's our falloff scripts? ). I must admit to using a 4th gyro instead of the TE too on mine. |
Hadrielloress
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:35:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Hadrielloress on 18/06/2009 01:38:37 Edited by: Hadrielloress on 18/06/2009 01:37:20
8x 1400 'scouts' (or tech 2 i just haven't bothered to get any yet and the scouts were found in missions.)
1x large booster (tech2) 1x shield amp (tech2) 2x mission specific hardners (tech2) 2x cap chargers (tech2)
2x power D units (tech2) 1x Damage Control unit (tech2) 2x Gyros (rep fleet)
1x thermal shield res rig 1x em shield rig 1x CCC rig
3x stasis drones 5x light drones Mission specific damage type (tech2)
Use about 1500-2000 rounds of normal ammo to clear Angel E in about 25-30 min, (not including bonus rooms) Salvaging desty and One indy in every system that There might be a mission in in the mission hub. Salvage a mission in about 20 min. This is only for the long ones, most can be done in less then 10 if they are range. Serps and Mordus are actually very quick missions and die rather fast.
Using nukes for better optimal at range and fusion for close range. Proton for Amarr and Emp for when they get close.
Most BS die in about 7 volleys, About a clip and a half for the elite BS with over a mil bounties. Cruisers or BC types will die in one or two hits. Frigs will pop with two guns on them. So you can take out 4 at once at range when you get into a mission.
It perma runs the booster, and the stasis drones make even cruisers hittable with 1400s at 5000m usually with just two stasis drones. Most things die in close a group so i don't need marauder to ball them up.
I dont care about AB anymore since im usually on the move towards the next gate as soon as i warp in and things are dead by the time i get to them. And i have the range to kill anything without issue or needing to chase them down.
Ive used this without implants after getting podded a few times, with implants the results go way up. I dont think I will ever really care to get a Marauder after using this mission boat. |
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.18 22:33:00 -
[15]
I'd rather not use artillery, I hate it on anything bigger than a frigate. I'm using AC because I need to get used to the med/low slot layout of the Maelstrom and the AC+AB style of Minmatar mission running (Vargur has same med/low slot layout, plus it uses AB+AC.) I'd also rather not permatank anything, since I like XL boosters a lot more now.
I'm also not going to use t2 ammunition, it isn't needed. I'll get t2 larges soon, but I find that using Fusion L on Angels works plenty well, and with the falloff bonus of the Vargur I'm planning on testing out Carbonized Lead and using that instead of Barrage.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.20 14:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: JordanParey on 20/06/2009 14:39:22 So, today I got pwnt by Buzz Kill.
I did Massive Attack (Serps) with the above setup with relative ease, but I got Buzz Kill as my second L4.
I changed out the invulns for Buzz Kill to 2x explo hardener, 2x kinetic hardener. With Minmatar Battleship 5 I got 825 hp boost from a t2 XL booster..
I did great till the wave with the battlecruisers. I killed the BCs but then a bunch of cruisers and assault cruisers got me ( I was aligned to station but didn't see the notice for being scrammed, resulting in only just losing my ship.)
edit: thankfully I was running with a complete t2 setup, no faction mods on there.. Can someone tell me what a real solid setup for Buzz Kill is?
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Galan Undris
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Posted - 2009.06.20 16:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Galan Undris on 20/06/2009 16:35:20 Buzz kill is easy in a Mealstrom, and one of few missions that are a lot faster to do with arties than missile or drone boats.
1. Fit afterburner, arties and 3x gyros and tracking enhancers/comps with range script, tank doesn't matter as you shouldn't take much damage on this one. 2. When you warp in, hit the AB and start moving away from the spawnpoints. Stay at about 50-60km.
Almost no incoming damage, and no traversal to manage since all the rats have way lower range and will head straight to you. Autos means you have to let them orbit you, which will destroy your ability to deal damage to them as well as allowing them to hit you..
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.21 22:59:00 -
[18]
So, I am replacing the Mael I lost yesterday and looking to buy a second (I am not bothered by the fact that I lost it, I figured it would happen sometime).
What I am curious about is if Semiconductor Memory Cells are better to use than CCCs? Is it worth the extra cost?
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.22 11:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Von Kapiche on 22/06/2009 11:40:24 Yes, unless you do some pointless capstable setup. More cap buffer for initial charges into groups, and the area of most cap recharge is bigger too, easier to keep your cap around there if you have to. Guess its not worth it if you're trying ot build a cheap lowsec boat or something.
I can recommend LSB/AC/ambit setups 100% after building another one, makes a nice change not having to try & throw that tub of a boat around like a cruiser to get stuff at a decent range. Unfortunately cheap ambit rigs dont really compensate deadspace booster prices :(
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Ziester
Caldari Echolalia. Shangri-La.
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Posted - 2009.06.22 12:04:00 -
[20]
Quote: [Maelstrom, L4] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier Domination 100MN Afterburner Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Projectile Ambit Extension I Projectile Ambit Extension I Projectile Ambit Extension I
6+46 Barrage range 477 tank vs Guristas No implants |
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.06.22 12:07:00 -
[21]
The problem with using Barrage for missions is that you will burn a ton of money on ammo. The Vargur's a little better for this, since it only has four 800mm's, but even there I would rarely use barrage and try to stick with t1 ammo.
I would personally just have two Maelstroms, and for missions that require some range, use the artillery Mael instead of barrage. You could refit the same Maelstrom, but the falloff rigs are wasted on artillery, and you will definitely want them for AC's.
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