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III LightBringer
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Posted - 2009.06.16 22:53:00 -
[1]
PL and their homies just fired off 20+ doomsdays in 49- killing a combat fit carrier. The carrier died after less than 20 I believe.
CCP needs to look into nerfing these dumb ships.
Here is my suggestion, give them something like this instead of the various DD's: 250km warp disruption field (bubble) / 250km pointed warpjammer that will hold supercaps.
125km WEB field (bubble)
500km anti-cloaking field
500km killing field (25 DPS continious damage on the entire field also damaging POS modules, bubbles, wrecks, pods and cloaked ****.. that should clear out drones, wrecks, pods, frigs and other things causing lags when the big boys fight)
Guns that do the same damage as dreads (dread guns with a 6.5 times modifier)
Triage module
500% bonus to shield / armor rep amount.
3-10X the amount of HP they have now.
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Leuthispar
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.06.16 22:57:00 -
[2]
It was 27 titans as reported in SHC by Viper****zle. Im sure there will be a news item about it soon. And Yea a carrier died after the first 16 dds and the moros survived in struture after taking all 27 DDs, so maybe 3 more titans and he would have popped too. I Dont expect much to be changed if anything to be honest, but I am curious as to what others/CCP have to say about it. CAOD A forum for threads with words like: deterministic alts, drama continuations, lagsploits generators, nodecrash extrapolation , killboard stat shader, forum ban distribution, etc. |
Hurtado Soneka
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.17 00:58:00 -
[3]
and what? its shocking it took so many DDs to kill the carrier in the first place.
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Mavolio
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.06.17 02:17:00 -
[4]
it only took 16 of the 27 i believe some 1 else said.
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Twilight Magester
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Posted - 2009.06.17 06:07:00 -
[5]
:P just because they can get 27 people in titans, into the same system at the same time, and DD all at once. you think they should be nerfed?
think about it. how many alliances were there? how often do 27 titans sit in the same system (afaik this was the first time this happened too) and doomsday all in the same area?
what's the recharge timer on a DD again? an hour? :O that means zomg we can pop eleventy billion carriers every hour!
i'm pretty sure it's horifically difficult to do this on a regular basis, once it becomes super ultra common, then i'll believe the calls for nerf.
but think about it, just because not everyone can afford titans automatically means the guys playing with them have to be nerfed?
if i managed to get 5000 battleships to fit large smartbombs and suicide bomb a group of people, you guys would call for a nerf on smartbombs.
tl;dr stfu quit whining, it's fine till every alliance has 50 and it becomes a problem. |
Boydsan DeZinj
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Posted - 2009.06.17 06:17:00 -
[6]
Reminds me of the story of Titan DDing a well hidden cloaked Myrmidon near a gate. The carrier pilot should just shout out, "I WAS BLOBBED BY TITANS!"
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.17 06:39:00 -
[7]
Twilight think for once. If you start considering how to nerf them when every alliance has enough of them to DD a capital fleet you are a bit far too late.
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Agent Known
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Boydsan DeZinj Reminds me of the story of Titan DDing a well hidden cloaked Myrmidon near a gate. The carrier pilot should just shout out, "I WAS BLOBBED BY TITANS!"
I would've been like..."O SHI- *poof*"
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Creed Demastikus
Bregan Dearthe United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:00:00 -
[9]
its easy just put a limit for solarsystems like 10 titan.. than there will be no smilar thing happens
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.17 08:17:00 -
[10]
Good idea, then the side which is there first can easily kill all the sub capital ships of the opponents, and the opponents cant get their own titans. |
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Dave Meltdown
Capital Construction Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 09:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Twilight Magester :P just because they can get 27 people in titans, into the same system at the same time, and DD all at once. you think they should be nerfed?
think about it. how many alliances were there? how often do 27 titans sit in the same system (afaik this was the first time this happened too) and doomsday all in the same area?
what's the recharge timer on a DD again? an hour? :O that means zomg we can pop eleventy billion carriers every hour!
i'm pretty sure it's horifically difficult to do this on a regular basis, once it becomes super ultra common, then i'll believe the calls for nerf.
but think about it, just because not everyone can afford titans automatically means the guys playing with them have to be nerfed?
if i managed to get 5000 battleships to fit large smartbombs and suicide bomb a group of people, you guys would call for a nerf on smartbombs.
tl;dr stfu quit whining, it's fine till every alliance has 50 and it becomes a problem.
u aint samart do you? Even if u bring in 5 titans and i assume those 5 titans have a supportfleet their damage is enough to bring hugh advantage to the battlefied. This action shows how utterly broken sov mechanics are in eve. Currenty only major alliances can hold space that nobody can attack due their naps and their 10 titans in system. even 3 titans are enough to dd a complete bs gang out of a system that is cynojammed. While nobody can attack them, their r64 income is getting higher and higher. While they are getting massive richdom they can buy more and more titans. And can defense more and more. Untill their is a moment that there are enough titans in one alliance to become invinseble for attackers. That moment is very close. If titans arnt getting nerfed conquering 0.0 is impossible for a medium 0.0 alliance. Only npc space is safe to be invaded by new aliances. So ccp nerf titans, do something about the moon mining income and fix sov mechanics
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.17 11:08:00 -
[12]
haha |
Hurtado Soneka
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.17 12:55:00 -
[13]
daves having a meltdown da da tish... |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.06.17 13:22:00 -
[14]
Well, if this is a problem as some people make out, when it becomes the state that no occupying force can be moved for the reasons Dave mentions, then 0.0 will just end up being completely static. This would mean that anyone not in those alliances will just end up leaving 0.0.
This does have a plus side in that many of these people will invariably end up in Factional Warfare, and that could always benefit from more pilots taking part. Combat would end up being more frequent, and that can't be a bad thing. Also, with a higher percentage of the overall population, CCP might prioritise it again, and start adding content, which it has been sorely lacking for 6 months now.
Dave is correct in that when you have a ship with a doomsday weapon, like the titan, then you will get an arms race between the superpowers, and one that ends in deadlock, with no smaller alliances being able to get a look-in. But resolving this issue will take some thought, as if the titan didn't exist, it would be something else acting as the ultimate weapon.
Maybe they could place a limit on how close Titans could get to each other, which would cut down on how many doomsday weapons could be let off in a specific area. They could say the instability of the DD systems are liable to set each other off if within a certain distance, creating feedback the ends in critical mass and a premature ignition of the weapon. This is only a rough idea, as I have no real idea how titans work, but feel free to discuss. |
Firkragg
Blue Labs Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.17 13:38:00 -
[15]
Thats exactly what pretty much every alliance who was involved in DDing that carrier has been saying since there inception. I don't beleive we had to go as far as building our own titan fleet then doing dumb things with it to make that point. |
iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: iudex on 17/06/2009 14:29:46
Originally by: III LightBringer
CCP needs to look into nerfing these dumb ships.
I understand that titans cause lots of problems and frustration but i don't think breaking it is the right solution, it still takes a high effort to build them and lot's of skilltraining to fly them, this should be rewarded with some "power".
A natural and intuitive way to solve the problem is to introduce a anti-titan weapon, a natural counter to it, like you see it done in rl (e.g. the invention of a bazooka against tanks). A battleship-sized stealth bomber that can only fit XL weapons for example and is cheaper and easier to fly than a dread (similar to the stealth bomber in comparison to a torp raven), maybe even with the option that it is DD-proof. The more the titan is used, the more this counter-weapon will be deployed, at the end there is a natural balance, additional content and no one feels the nerf - many happy customers instead of frustrating thousands of people that are involved in titan production or even own a titan.
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jhon whang
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Posted - 2009.06.17 14:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: iudex A battleship-sized stealth bomber that can only fit XL weapons for example and is cheaper and easier to fly than a dread (similar to the stealth bomber in comparison to a torp raven), maybe even with the option that it is DD-proof. The more the titan is used, the more this counter-weapon will be deployed, at the end there is a natural balance, additional content and no one feels the nerf - many happy customers instead of frustrating thousands of people that are involved in titan production or even own a titan.
I'm sure the highsec pos owners might feel the nerf as al of a sudden they can be attacked by mobs of citadel packing ravens. Not saying it doesn't have it's finer points, but there are always further reaching implications to major changes, and I certainly wuoldn't say that noone feels the nerf. |
iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: jhon whang
I'm sure the highsec pos owners might feel the nerf as al of a sudden they can be attacked by mobs of citadel packing ravens. Not saying it doesn't have it's finer points, but there are always further reaching implications to major changes, and I certainly wuoldn't say that noone feels the nerf.
Yes there's always a side effect, this was just an example of a anti-titan counter measure, to neutralize it's impact on other things it can be made generally weak but have a damage bonus on titans. Or be extremely vulnerable to pos guns (glass cannon) - i think it's possible to work something out instead just nerf the titan.
A direct nerf hits more people than only the titan users, there are people who haul the minerals, make a business of selling capital parts and many others. I remember when they nerfed the motherships, that was short after i bought my first Wyvern BPO to make copies. After the nerf the BPC prices crashed and while i never flown or seen a mothership outside SiSi, i was severely affected by the nerf, it is quite frustrating when you can't trust in the consistency of some game features and can't plan any large investments because of constant nerfs and changes. Introducing a counter-weapon would solve the problem without too much collateral damage to all the people who built a business around titans but give something new and interesting to the game.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:35:00 -
[19]
16 |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:38:00 -
[20]
Nerfing isnt the right word, they need to be changed. Preferably into mobile stations imo (huge clone vats, space for a battleship fleet inside, repair services, etc. So when you do a fleet battle, you either get podded to the clone vat bay or warp to the titan, and you pick up a new ship. Maybe even small force field arround it).
But your idea has one huge flaw (well several actually). What stops titans from just doomsdaying the crap out of these BS size stealth bombers? When they got enough to kill a dreadnaught, i dont think they will be too worried about a t2 battleship. |
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iudex
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Furb Killer Nerfing isnt the right word, they need to be changed. Preferably into mobile stations imo (huge clone vats, space for a battleship fleet inside, repair services, etc. So when you do a fleet battle, you either get podded to the clone vat bay or warp to the titan, and you pick up a new ship. Maybe even small force field arround it).
But your idea has one huge flaw (well several actually). What stops titans from just doomsdaying the crap out of these BS size stealth bombers? When they got enough to kill a dreadnaught, i dont think they will be too worried about a t2 battleship.
Originally by: iudex [A battleship-sized stealth bomber that can only fit XL weapons for example and is cheaper and easier to fly than a dread (similar to the stealth bomber in comparison to a torp raven), maybe even with the option that it is DD-proof.
Again that's only an example. CCP could also make some special anti-titan ammo for dreadnoughts that cost 10 million a shot and do 10x the damage of usual dread ammo when fired on titans. The idea is to bring a counter-weapon and let the players balance the titan instead of hitting them with the nerf-bat so that they become something useless and expensive, like motherships now.
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Information Broker
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Posted - 2009.06.18 04:47:00 -
[22]
Yall realize the carrier pilot's alt was in one of the titans...
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Information Broker
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Posted - 2009.06.18 04:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: III LightBringer
CCP needs to look into nerfing these dumb ships.
You realize a battleship can tank 2 maybe 3 DD's if RR BS Gang?
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Commander Yassir
Big Black Hole
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Information Broker Yall realize the carrier pilot's alt was in one of the titans...
Well yea, they did it to prove a point, that Titans need to be looked at... ~ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. |
Kung'Fu Tzu
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:09:00 -
[25]
Instead of letting some other ship carry something like a citadel, why not make a strategic cruiser subsystem that reflects dd damage back and takes none from the dd itself when at lvl5(+20% reflect per skill level)? To make sure there's still a major amount of skill needed have the skill accessible only after training capital energy emission systems/shield emission systems/shield Operation skills and a capital turret skill to 4 at the least. nothing is nerfed and nothing gets ubered this way. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:46:00 -
[26]
The DD capital kill was predicted a long time ago. The Titan was to be the star of the show, has become so damn common that it was just a matter of time before someone did it for the 'lulz'.
CCP is supposedly working on a major overhaul on everything "0.0". They finally realised that the POS-borefare of today makes for a lousy gameplay experience.
It stands to reason that the capital ships, including the super-capitals, will be changed to fit into whatever mechanic they end up with.
There are numerous threads in the ideas forum where an, at times, rather lively capital discussion ebbs and flows.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.18 06:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: iudex
Originally by: Furb Killer Nerfing isnt the right word, they need to be changed. Preferably into mobile stations imo (huge clone vats, space for a battleship fleet inside, repair services, etc. So when you do a fleet battle, you either get podded to the clone vat bay or warp to the titan, and you pick up a new ship. Maybe even small force field arround it).
But your idea has one huge flaw (well several actually). What stops titans from just doomsdaying the crap out of these BS size stealth bombers? When they got enough to kill a dreadnaught, i dont think they will be too worried about a t2 battleship.
Originally by: iudex [A battleship-sized stealth bomber that can only fit XL weapons for example and is cheaper and easier to fly than a dread (similar to the stealth bomber in comparison to a torp raven), maybe even with the option that it is DD-proof.
Again that's only an example. CCP could also make some special anti-titan ammo for dreadnoughts that cost 10 million a shot and do 10x the damage of usual dread ammo when fired on titans. The idea is to bring a counter-weapon and let the players balance the titan instead of hitting them with the nerf-bat so that they become something useless and expensive, like motherships now.
It shouldnt be nerfed into uselessness, it should be changed into something different. A mobile station thing, a support ship, whatever. But not the ship which is dropped onto the enemy ships, fires doomsdayes, and kills the entire fleet (minus a few specialized anti titan ships which will then quickly dispatched by motherships and titans just warp out). |
Kung'Fu Tzu
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Posted - 2009.06.18 06:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Furb Killer
It shouldnt be nerfed into uselessness, it should be changed into something different. A mobile station thing, a support ship, whatever. But not the ship which is dropped onto the enemy ships, fires doomsdayes, and kills the entire fleet (minus a few specialized anti titan ships which will then quickly dispatched by motherships and titans just warp out).
Well how about taking my previous idea with the subsystem and make it to where it's a module that can only be fit in conjunction with said subsystem and the module modifier stacks as additional are added. add a damage multiplier to each module based on skill level as well. so while it the module might reflect 80% at lvl 4 the 80% reflected hits the titan at, maybe, 4x that(5x @ lvl 5). now the titan would have to give serious pause to using it at all when a properly fitted t3 cruiser is around. This would also help give the t3 cruiser a more legitimate role in the game(beyond a subsystem immune to interdiction spheres).
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Robert0288
Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.06.18 09:51:00 -
[29]
any limit on how many DDs can be fired, or how many titans can be on grid is impossible as 1 side would use the alloted limit up.
3 DDs per system per hour? no problem 1 side will just pop off 3 dds in a safe somewhere. Imagine the surprise when the hostiles try to DD a fleet and the titan pilot get a nice little error. "Oh btw somone already shot off their load 3 times, enjoy your day" as he gets roasted by a subcap fleet. |
Allahs Warrior
Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
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Posted - 2009.06.18 10:27:00 -
[30]
clearly remote DD is the solution. That was the fair way to have titans.
Anyhoo: Titans could be worked into a revamped sov mechanic, and act as a mobile station with a supertank.
A titan could have such a supertank it should be able to tank even 10 sieged dreads for over an hour. It can supply its fleet with new clones and new battleships to fly. It could have a similar setup to a POS in that it can fit cruiser sized and battleship sized guns that are WAY more powerful with WAY longer range than their counterparts on a regular ship, as well as up to 2 XL guns with the same strength as a POS gun.
It would act as a battle platform meant to stage an assault on enemy territory. It would simply tank and offer logistics similar to that of a station and mediocre DPS (for the money). People would be able to wake up in this Titan and would immediately pop out in a mod (invulnerable for 30 seconds) and then get in a ship that the Titan is letting people get in to.
This way you can maintain siege on a system without having to fly reinforcements back from the nearest outpost. INstead, you load up 250 BS into this thing and you now all have 3 "lives" before u have to restock (assuming you have a 125 man fleet and 1 titan).
It would have very good jump capabilities but extremely, EXTREMELY slow warp (.75 au) and otherwise even slower than current titans. |
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.18 11:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kung'Fu Tzu
Originally by: Furb Killer
It shouldnt be nerfed into uselessness, it should be changed into something different. A mobile station thing, a support ship, whatever. But not the ship which is dropped onto the enemy ships, fires doomsdayes, and kills the entire fleet (minus a few specialized anti titan ships which will then quickly dispatched by motherships and titans just warp out).
Well how about taking my previous idea with the subsystem and make it to where it's a module that can only be fit in conjunction with said subsystem and the module modifier stacks as additional are added. add a damage multiplier to each module based on skill level as well. so while it the module might reflect 80% at lvl 4 the 80% reflected hits the titan at, maybe, 4x that(5x @ lvl 5). now the titan would have to give serious pause to using it at all when a properly fitted t3 cruiser is around. This would also help give the t3 cruiser a more legitimate role in the game(beyond a subsystem immune to interdiction spheres).
Read again what i wrote. Then they still fire their doomsdays and still obliterate an entire fleet, just minus a few t3 cruisers. Which then take untill next DT to kill it. Or you give motherships a role again. They will be the titans support to rep the damage they got from each others doomsdays, kill your t3 ships, and can survive the doomsdays themselves too. So now only super capitals are used to kill an enemy fleet.
But even if you would somehow manage to get it balanced with an anti titan ship, the entire idea behind a titan is still stupid. With one push of a button destroying an entire fleet is just not a good idea for a game.
Imo like said by ^, changing it into a mobile station is still the best idea.
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III LightBringer
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Posted - 2009.06.18 11:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Information Broker
Originally by: III LightBringer
CCP needs to look into nerfing these dumb ships.
You realize a battleship can tank 2 maybe 3 DD's if RR BS Gang?
An RR BS gang can NOT tank 3 DD's. They can hardly tank 2, and with dual DD tanks they have **** for damage.
To tank 2 avatars, maybe, but to have a dual-omni DD tank is very hard.
And to the person that had the idea of dread damage bonus to shoot titans, let me tell you this: Once a side manage to get dreads into siege next to a hostile titan, that titan dies unless you have fail-dictor-pilots. Titans have real ****ty EHP and melt to 10 sieged dreads.
Problem is.. if there are 10+ (none ******ed) titans on a field, it becomes damn near impossible to tackle them in the short few seconds they have to stay on grid.
MAKE the titan have to BE ON the grid to use the DD. (Let it enter 'siege' for 10 min after a DD and allow it to DD every 10 min maybe) Or just remove the punch from the DD and give other weapons. 250km warp bubble? 250km low-damage kill field? Localized 'POS' shield to shield all ships nearby from damage?
I really do not care.. just MAKE them have to stay ON FIELD to be useful.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.18 11:59:00 -
[33]
Okay, on a more serious note, why is this ridiculous?
You just took the investment of some 3 trillion isk and blew up a cap ship.
I don't see how that's OP.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 12:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Okay, on a more serious note, why is this ridiculous?
You just took the investment of some 3 trillion isk and blew up a cap ship.
I don't see how that's OP.
Prima facie you seem to have a point, they brought 3 trillion and should be able to kill a cap ship with that fast and without problems.
But the point is that are doomsdays that kill a whole grid. The carrier was just an example, there could have been 200 carriers, and 1000 sub-capital ships, including many *cough* Proteus *cough* on the field and they'd all die in one moment. The carrier only shows the potential. |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.06.18 13:00:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Prima facie you seem to have a point, they brought 3 trillion and should be able to kill a cap ship with that fast and without problems.
But the point is that are doomsdays that kill a whole grid. The carrier was just an example, there could have been 200 carriers, and 1000 sub-capital ships, including many *cough* Proteus *cough* on the field and they'd all die in one moment. The carrier only shows the potential.
The thing is though we could be talking in circles about something like this.
Remember when Band of Brothers lived in Delve and all happy cuddle bears? People said it was the best space in the game and that because Bob had it, nobody else could get it.
Well that has been proved wrong. This titan issue seems to be nothing more than a 'fad'. If they're going to mobilize all 30 of their titans whenever a fleet op comes up, its their business. After they DD though, it only takes one fleet to warp in and knock a couple of them down.
The bigger matter here seems to be people do not take the entire picture into account. After you fire your DD off, you are VULNERABLE for what is it, ten minutes?
Simple fact of it is any number of large ships is going to do a lot of damage. Whether or not it destroys everything on the grid just means the pilots who are on the grid when the DD activates means time to GTFO, then return to destroy a titan.
Pretty simple. If 30 titans show up and start cycling DDs, have backup waiting to pounce. I would go as far to suggest a recon or tanked battleship with a cloak off the grid. When the titans all expend their DDs, warp in drop cyno activate jump bridge and attack the vulnerable titans with your fleet.
There are solutions to this. You just can't beat something with a nerf bat "just because it's good".
A blob of battleships is going to tear swarm of lesser ships to pieces. Nerf battleships? No. |
III LightBringer
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Posted - 2009.06.18 13:21:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Prima facie you seem to have a point, they brought 3 trillion and should be able to kill a cap ship with that fast and without problems.
But the point is that are doomsdays that kill a whole grid. The carrier was just an example, there could have been 200 carriers, and 1000 sub-capital ships, including many *cough* Proteus *cough* on the field and they'd all die in one moment. The carrier only shows the potential.
The thing is though we could be talking in circles about something like this.
Remember when Band of Brothers lived in Delve and all happy cuddle bears? People said it was the best space in the game and that because Bob had it, nobody else could get it.
Well that has been proved wrong. This titan issue seems to be nothing more than a 'fad'. If they're going to mobilize all 30 of their titans whenever a fleet op comes up, its their business. After they DD though, it only takes one fleet to warp in and knock a couple of them down.
The bigger matter here seems to be people do not take the entire picture into account. After you fire your DD off, you are VULNERABLE for what is it, ten minutes?
Simple fact of it is any number of large ships is going to do a lot of damage. Whether or not it destroys everything on the grid just means the pilots who are on the grid when the DD activates means time to GTFO, then return to destroy a titan.
Pretty simple. If 30 titans show up and start cycling DDs, have backup waiting to pounce. I would go as far to suggest a recon or tanked battleship with a cloak off the grid. When the titans all expend their DDs, warp in drop cyno activate jump bridge and attack the vulnerable titans with your fleet.
There are solutions to this. You just can't beat something with a nerf bat "just because it's good".
A blob of battleships is going to tear swarm of lesser ships to pieces. Nerf battleships? No.
There are only one ship 'slightly' able to cloak and fly in to tackle a titan, and that is the HIC. There might be a couple of handfuls of folks able to redo thugs awsome tackle on thulsa doom, but NEVER on a battlefield, only against lone titans.
A cap fleet backed by 10 titans + dictor support, there are nothing anyone can do except a very select few enteties. (no, 10 titans from a single alliance will not be all that hard to field in 6-9 months). AAA can do it today. BOB can do it today. PL can probably do it soon. To fight THAT kind of force in a cyno jammed system is "impossible". The ONLY thing you can hope for is to lag out the system so badly that the titans do not dare to log in because they know that if they crash / desync badly, they die...
And that is where we are today. Titans make it so that blobs need to be big enough to make the server unstable so the titans do not log in out of fear.
Also, if team A sieges 200 dreads, and team B warps out their 30 titans, they can warp back in at 230km, DD, and kill the whole damn fleet... (just saying) because nothing will be able to tackle titans that are aligned and doing multiple DD's... |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Balls Deep Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 13:36:00 -
[37]
How many simultaneous doomsdays would it take to instapop those same titans is what I want to know. ______
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Xerpex
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:24:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Xerpex on 18/06/2009 14:24:30
Originally by: III LightBringer
Also, if team A sieges 200 dreads, and team B warps out their 30 titans, they can warp back in at 230km, DD, and kill the whole damn fleet... (just saying) because nothing will be able to tackle titans that are aligned and doing multiple DD's...
I'd like to quote this because it's gonna happen in the next few months.
Also, people saying "titans are expensive so they should be powerful" are ******ed, because titans aren't expensive. The biggest limiting factor in titan production (for an established alliance) is finding a pilot willing to fly a supercap.
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Elex Akat
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:29:00 -
[39]
I honestly don't know what everyones whining about. The 27 DDs were just fired off as the biggest epeen waving in Eve. It was a grand fireworks display to remind BoB that they ****ing lost. We probably won't see that many Titans together again for a long time.
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III LightBringer
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:30:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi How many simultaneous doomsdays would it take to instapop those same titans is what I want to know.
Depends on what rigs you put on it and if you fit for speed or EHP.
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III LightBringer
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Elex Akat I honestly don't know what everyones whining about. The 27 DDs were just fired off as the biggest epeen waving in Eve. It was a grand fireworks display to remind BoB that they ****ing lost. We probably won't see that many Titans together again for a long time.
You will see that many titans again the NEXT TIME someone find out it is time to attack something worth defending that belong to 'insert power block name here'.
**** the blob machines and force Titans to stay on field, give them some other weapons that DD that are ACTUALLY useful, un-nerf the clone bay that NOONE use and multiply their HP's by 10. Make firing a DD something like a 'siege' attack that makes the damn titan sit there for 5 min, while still being able to use bridges and clonebays. And make them UN BUMPABLE.
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Iece Quaan
Caldari Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:39:00 -
[42]
Rampant AOE abilities tend to get nerfed in every PVP mmo. This won't be any different. |
Rielhe
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.06.18 20:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Twilight Magester :P just because they can get 27 people in titans, into the same system at the same time, and DD all at once. you think they should be nerfed?
think about it. how many alliances were there? how often do 27 titans sit in the same system (afaik this was the first time this happened too) and doomsday all in the same area?
what's the recharge timer on a DD again? an hour? :O that means zomg we can pop eleventy billion carriers every hour!
i'm pretty sure it's horifically difficult to do this on a regular basis, once it becomes super ultra common, then i'll believe the calls for nerf.
but think about it, just because not everyone can afford titans automatically means the guys playing with them have to be nerfed?
if i managed to get 5000 battleships to fit large smartbombs and suicide bomb a group of people, you guys would call for a nerf on smartbombs.
tl;dr stfu quit whining, it's fine till every alliance has 50 and it becomes a problem.
I agree 100%. It is hilarious that there were 27 titans in the same system, and I wish I were there. But just because somebody can afford an awesome weapon doesn't mean that the awesome weapon that someone earned needs to be nerfed |
Xerpex
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.18 22:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Rielhe
Originally by: Twilight Magester :P just because they can get 27 people in titans, into the same system at the same time, and DD all at once. you think they should be nerfed?
think about it. how many alliances were there? how often do 27 titans sit in the same system (afaik this was the first time this happened too) and doomsday all in the same area?
what's the recharge timer on a DD again? an hour? :O that means zomg we can pop eleventy billion carriers every hour!
i'm pretty sure it's horifically difficult to do this on a regular basis, once it becomes super ultra common, then i'll believe the calls for nerf.
but think about it, just because not everyone can afford titans automatically means the guys playing with them have to be nerfed?
if i managed to get 5000 battleships to fit large smartbombs and suicide bomb a group of people, you guys would call for a nerf on smartbombs.
tl;dr stfu quit whining, it's fine till every alliance has 50 and it becomes a problem.
I agree 100%. It is hilarious that there were 27 titans in the same system, and I wish I were there. But just because somebody can afford an awesome weapon doesn't mean that the awesome weapon that someone earned needs to be nerfed
What about when everybody has this "awesome weapon"? Which is neither expensive nor awesome. |
Taradis
Amarr The Imperial Assassins
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Posted - 2009.06.19 07:32:00 -
[45]
Titans are fine quit smoking crack BS sized stealth bomber as a counter to a titan hmmmmmmmm could be interesting |
Trazis
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Posted - 2009.06.20 07:22:00 -
[46]
Seriously people put the nerf bats away and lets be creative... would you rather new ships that counter stuff or would you just rather ruin other peoples days by making their hard earned ships nothing more then giant paperweights
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GBlair
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.20 15:34:00 -
[47]
OH NOES SOMETHING WORKS, NERF IT! |
FU22
Mercurialis Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.20 17:04:00 -
[48]
any nerf isn't allowed to come until pl and friends drop the titans on a hostile capital fleet |
Aluin Chaput
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.22 00:52:00 -
[49]
I'm not going to get into all the sov fixes needed stuff, but don't you get Titans are not, NOT supposed to be able to take down Caps? They are there to nuke the christ out of smaller stuff. Now, maybe that needs changing, but that is their current role. |
Mar'Ketalt
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Posted - 2009.06.22 19:37:00 -
[50]
I love how the op is freaking out when 16 DD's kill a badly-fit carrier, after at least a year of 2-3 NC titans DDing entire support fleets...
nerf/change titans, but not because you're afraid of getting your capfleet DD'd somehow...after all, who the hell would hotdrop or deploy a capfleet with 10-20 titans moving around in the surrounding sytems? It only takes 2-3 of them to DD your support fleet and let their support clean up your caps with bs.
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Johnny Gurkha
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.06.22 23:32:00 -
[51]
I personally wouldn't care a **** if all Titan's were removed from the game, but it isn't going to happen... their here to stay - adapt and try and coax the Titan pilots into something less expensive?
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JoeBear770
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Posted - 2009.06.23 01:02:00 -
[52]
It sure seems like a lot of work went into popping one carrier. Contrary to the OP's complaint, I have seen carriers downed with much less effort/expense involved.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
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Posted - 2009.06.23 03:12:00 -
[53]
I think the real tragedy here is ending up with so many Titans one your case in the first place.
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shavada
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Posted - 2009.06.23 06:09:00 -
[54]
Quote: It sure seems like a lot of work went into popping one carrier. Contrary to the OP's complaint, I have seen carriers downed with much less effort/expense involved.
That wasn't the point, if there were 1000 carriers on that field they all would have popped.
I think getting 16+ titans together in a war situation deserves some overpoweredness tbh, they are expensive, not good for much else and they require a large backup infrastructure, if you are able to coordinate an attack like that vs a real foe you deserve a large kill.
Why do people always cry nerf if they find something op? I mean look at history, sometimes something arises that is overpowered, then a massive battle is won because of this and the losing faction adapts their strategy. Since we ourselves can't make ships in this game we must ask CCP.
Don't cry for a nerf (like limiting the total damage done by a DD, divided by the amount of ships)! Cry for something to counter it :D What about a specialized ewar ship that can jam a DD? Doesn't make nice gameplay though as you'd be sitting waiting for a titan to jump in that might never come.
Meh to be fair I think it's good as is, a battle without strategy is boring, now you need to be on your toes, keep the fleet moving or we get DD'd, while the other side goes "**** I got 50 of 100 in local on my titan and if I DD this lot the other half will come and pwn me"
nerf DD and it's bye to that looming threat of a DD that is always there, I like that threat!
Ofcourse there are alot of adaptations that EVE still could use but there always will be (like making capitals a different league - unable to hurt BS or smaller ships and unable to die from them - my personal wish :p) |
elecind
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Posted - 2009.06.23 06:59:00 -
[55]
Why do we chat about nerfing? BUFF THE Stealth Bombers!
or just stop whining about the axiotles floating around in space that can instapop anything. im happy with my destroyer |
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