Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
brocksamson316
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:21:00 -
[1]
Is there one? Id love to try one but the grid is so low it just seems impossible, anyone got a setup thats any good?
|
NoNah
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:26:00 -
[2]
Not being able to fit 4 of them without a fittingmod, and even if you could you'd be worse of than with AC's in the first place - for missions - I can't see why you'd even want to consider dwelling into it further?
For pvp, yes, you can fit arties, but the applications are so narrow you're generally better of with AC's anyway. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 260148
|
Ilon'Aya
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:28:00 -
[3]
The Vargur is meant to be used with 800mm autocannons (why else would it have such a low grid). With the correct setup these can reach out to farther than 60km so range should not be a problem in any mission. |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:29:00 -
[4]
What most people seem to overlook about the Vargur is that it works perfectly fine with autocannons in PvE...I suspect the ship performs quite nicely in PvP as well. |
NoNah
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:30:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ilon'Aya The Vargur is meant to be used with 800mm autocannons (why else would it have such a low grid). With the correct setup these can reach out to farther than 60km so range should not be a problem in any mission.
In fact, like all marauders you really don't want to kill stuff outside of 40k, which will be well within "decent" range for the vargur. Exceptions will happen, and a vargur can have some 80k falloff so... no problem there either. |
Davinel Lulinvega
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:31:00 -
[6]
You get over 60km falloff with acs. You don't want arties. |
demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:48:00 -
[7]
but dmg that deep into fall off sucks
|
Grarr Dexx
Amarr Corp 1 Allstars
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: demonfurbie but dmg that deep into fall off sucks
You think that far out no other ship has to consolidate on damage? Other than cruise golem, whose DPS sucks. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Davinel Lulinvega
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: demonfurbie but dmg that deep into fall off sucks
When you have to fill your lows with fitting mods instead of damage it sucks too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:17:00 -
[10]
vargur is the worst marauder, and not worth the ever increasing price tag.
Compare the vargur with the other marauders fitting the largest guns possible and you see how complely spineless the vargur really is, heck it has trouble fitting the largest autos with a decent setup (completly true).
who wants a 1 billion isk ship that nearly 100% of the time is figthing in its fall off, reducing dmg output hugly, when it cant meet the dps of them at optimal ANYWAY.
complelty useless and really needs a boost, and yes i did fly one for a long time before i realised for the investment (isk in total) any of the other minm BS could do better. |
|
Ravenal
The Fated E.Y
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:43:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ravenal on 12/06/2009 16:43:46 [Vargur, 1200mm] Power Diagnostic System II x4 Gyrostabilizer II
Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II x2 (or npc specific) Shield Boost Amplifier II x2 100MN Afterburner II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L x4 Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I x2
Capacitor Control Circuit I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
The Vargur is created to use the autocannons ... awesome weapons as they are. I also don't agree that the Vargur is the worst marauder out there. I classify it as the best to the second best of the lot... but that is because I mainly run angel missions ... at which the Vargur rules above all the others.
edit: This is permarun shield tank, having the AB active all the time has an 8 minute cap time or so. |
Kaira Ripley
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 02:39:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kaira Ripley on 19/06/2009 02:39:52 Edited by: Kaira Ripley on 19/06/2009 02:39:24 I used to use this:
[Vargur, Vargur1400mm] Hakim's Modified Gyrostabilizer Mizuro's Modified Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit Damage Control II
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist X-Type Photon Scattering Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Tairei's Modified Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 25
Hakim's Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP L Hakim's Modified 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP L Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, EMP L Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, EMP L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Small Tractor Beam I
Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I
But then i swithced to this:
[Vargur, Vargur800mm] Hakim's Modified Gyrostabilizer Mizuro's Modified Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pith A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Gist X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist X-Type Ballistic Deflection Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type Photon Scattering Field
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Large Energy Transfer Array II Large Energy Transfer Array II Small Tractor Beam I
Projectile Ambit Extension II Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II
And yes.. its for teamwork (there for the 2x Large Cap transferes)
|
Hadrielloress
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 05:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: brocksamson316 Is there one? Id love to try one but the grid is so low it just seems impossible, anyone got a setup thats any good?
Here you go,
High 4 Jolt 1400mm (storyline guns) Less DPS then using other guns with ACR but you can use the rig slots for other things if you use these. 2 tractors 1 Salvager
Med 2 Pith C type small boosters 1 Caldari navy shield amp 2 caldari navy inv fields 1 gallente navy tracking computer
Low 3 rep fleet Gyros 2 power diagnostic systems tech2
Rigs- if you use projectile rigs one RCU will let you use them if you want and still be cap stable, I checked its cap stability against my 10 mil SP alt, as well as for fitting if you cant make it cap stable while my alt can you should not be in a marauder in the First place. 1 Anti EM screen 1 ionic Field projector ( Your targeting range is less then the guns with Falloff so this works nice)
Advantages are that you will be hitting things in optimal, meaning more max damage overall.
Also Learn to use ammo better, Nuke and Proton and Depleted Uranium(no opt penalty) are great as they let you take advantage of a huge optimal boost meaning you do more damage at range then using things like EMP, and Fusion and other high damage Ammo that have a penalty. Proton, Nuke, and DU were made for arty's so the have a good optimal. I can confirm however that carbonized lead is still kinda useless.
As with ships you need to work to the advantage of a guns strengths. Artys have good optimal, and ammo that improves that. ACs have crap optimal so high DPS ammo that has a optimal penalty works great in them. And with artys when things get close switch to the High damage ammo once they are within what that ammo would make your optimal.
|
Ziester
Caldari Echolalia. Shangri-La.
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 12:08:00 -
[14]
[Vargur, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Ancillary Current Router II Projectile Ambit Extension I
Valkyrie II x5 Warrior II x5
----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
|
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa.
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 12:16:00 -
[15]
it's a fantastic autocannon ship, use a mael for arties IMO -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 12:31:00 -
[16]
The Vargur works just fine with Artillery. I have been using this setup in Amarr space to good effect (note that it is not anywhere close to as good as my Paladin, Golem or Kronos, but it is better than any other Minmatar BS).
[Vargur, Q's Vargur - Pithi Mission] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Damage Control II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II
Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
|
Ortos
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 14:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Anubis Xian .I suspect the ship performs quite nicely in PvP as well.
you are correct
Yarrrr |
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2009.06.19 15:36:00 -
[18]
This should work just fine if you like arty,
3 T2 Gyro 1 T2 PDU 1 T2 RCU
3 T2 Shield Hardeners 1 T2 Large Shield Booster 1 T2 Booster Amp 1 T2 Cap Recharger
4 Republic Fleet 1400 arty 2 Tractor Beams 1 Salvager
2 CCC
You have to use the Republic Flett 1400s to make it fit. You could up grade the T2 items to suit yourself, but this should tank all lvl 4s against Angels.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
|
Hadrielloress
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 00:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ghoest
You have to use the Republic Flett 1400s to make it fit. You could up grade the T2 items to suit yourself, but this should tank all lvl 4s against Angels.
Lets be honest once you are over 600DPS anyway its overkill for most mission. Tech 2 is not really needed for PVE for artys. |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 00:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hadrielloress
Originally by: Ghoest
You have to use the Republic Flett 1400s to make it fit. You could up grade the T2 items to suit yourself, but this should tank all lvl 4s against Angels.
Lets be honest once you are over 600DPS anyway its overkill for most mission. Tech 2 is not really needed for PVE for artys.
WTS Clue
Fly a 600 DPS ship and then fly a 1000 DPS ship and tell me you don't see a giant difference. |
|
Hadrielloress
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 00:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Hadrielloress
Originally by: Ghoest
You have to use the Republic Flett 1400s to make it fit. You could up grade the T2 items to suit yourself, but this should tank all lvl 4s against Angels.
Lets be honest once you are over 600DPS anyway its overkill for most mission. Tech 2 is not really needed for PVE for artys.
WTS Clue
Fly a 600 DPS ship and then fly a 1000 DPS ship and tell me you don't see a giant difference.
Link the ship fit you are talking about and ill be happy to point out the major flaws in your thinking. |
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 00:52:00 -
[22]
I agree that all else being equal more damage helps. And if you swap the PDU for another RCU you can fit T2 1400s.
But you do give up some cap to get that 15-20ish dps. I personally have never trained T2 larges so I use Fleet guns. |
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 00:55:00 -
[23]
I'm with Astro on this.
The flaw in your "give a DPS number reasonable to low SP people" is that you need some things to be constant when comparing ships. It makes no sense to compare the performance of one ship with my skills, against the performance of your ship with your skills. If you do, and assume my character + ship performs better, you won't have any idea whether it was my skill points, my ship/ship fitting, or both that boosted my performance above yours. Thus, you assume maximum skills when comparing ships, so that you're comparing the ships on equal footing. In other words, you're comparing their potentials, even if they're sometimes flown by players with crap skills. As a final note, even if your skills completely suck, that doesn't matter for ship comparisons. If you suck at flying a Cruise CNR and suck at flying a Tempest, that doesn't change the fact that the Tempest is crap and the Cruise CNR is awesome. Sure, you'll deal less in both ships than you would with All V skills, but your DPS and efficiency in the CNR will still beat out the Tempest.
That said, if you're flying a Vargur, you really should have at least T2 large AC, and you're required to have BS 5 and good fitting skills. So your numbers shouldn't be that terribly far off from "All 5 Skills" numbers anyways.
Finally, this notion that 600 DPS is all that's required for mission running is complete and utter nonsense. While there is a minimum amount of damage you must deal to break the NPC's tanks, dealing more actual DPS (i.e. taking tracking, optimal, etc. into account, the damage you actually deal per second) will lead to faster mission completion times. Faster mission completion times, obviously, leads to higher ISK per hour, and since most of us don't run missions just for ****s and giggles, that's pretty important. |
TimMc
Gallente Extradition
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 00:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hadrielloress Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/06/2009 00:38:30
Link the ship fit you are talking about and ill be happy to point out the major flaws in your thinking.
I will also add that not everyone has 40 mil SP that might be flying these ships with all skills at 5. How about trying to keep things at a level that might be useful to the majority of people.
Tach Paladin and Torp Golem both aim for around 1000dps. Getting 600dps is something you do in a cruise raven or a Sentry Dominix.
And for the OP, here is best setup I could come up with. Requires 3% pg implant. Don't like it though.
[Vargur, New Setup 1] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Reactor Control Unit II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Hammerhead II x5
|
Transmaniacon
Minmatar HOMELESS. Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 00:58:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Transmaniacon on 20/06/2009 00:58:58 "Link the ship fit you are talking about and ill be happy to point out the major flaws in your thinking."
[Paladin, Train Amarr] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
945 DPS with T1 guns...
|
Hadrielloress
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 01:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Traderboz I'm with Astro on this.
The flaw in your "give a DPS number reasonable to low SP people" is that you need some things to be constant when comparing ships. It makes no sense to compare the performance of one ship with my skills, against the performance of your ship with your skills. If you do, and assume my character + ship performs better, you won't have any idea whether it was my skill points, my ship/ship fitting, or both that boosted my performance above yours. Thus, you assume maximum skills when comparing ships, so that you're comparing the ships on equal footing. In other words, you're comparing their potentials, even if they're sometimes flown by players with crap skills. As a final note, even if your skills completely suck, that doesn't matter for ship comparisons. If you suck at flying a Cruise CNR and suck at flying a Tempest, that doesn't change the fact that the Tempest is crap and the Cruise CNR is awesome. Sure, you'll deal less in both ships than you would with All V skills, but your DPS and efficiency in the CNR will still beat out the Tempest.
That said, if you're flying a Vargur, you really should have at least T2 large AC, and you're required to have BS 5 and good fitting skills. So your numbers shouldn't be that terribly far off from "All 5 Skills" numbers anyways.
Finally, this notion that 600 DPS is all that's required for mission running is complete and utter nonsense. While there is a minimum amount of damage you must deal to break the NPC's tanks, dealing more actual DPS (i.e. taking tracking, optimal, etc. into account, the damage you actually deal per second) will lead to faster mission completion times. Faster mission completion times, obviously, leads to higher ISK per hour, and since most of us don't run missions just for ****s and giggles, that's pretty important.
So my 10 mil SP alt clears a mission in 10-30 min at most depending on the mission AE, vengence being at the higher end on time. Sometimes it takes 40 min if im not paying attention all that well, in a maelstrom mind you only Doing only 325 DPS with tech one 1400 artys using basic ammo. Bout 400+ with drones. Ive been doing level 4s since I was only 1.5 SP with no problems.
I have been basing the Fitting Reqs and cap stability on the 10 mil sp character. If it can be cap stable with him in it then anyone with crappy skills can do the same when they fit the the marauder. Its prob the best test one can do. Then to see the DPS I check it against all Skill V.
Im left with the impression you need to rethink what you think you know about DPs, missions, and SP spread.
First off everyone saying ACs are the best are giving out bad info to many people. Fighting into falloff means you are not doing the so called 1000 DPS actually you are doing significantly less. You only get that 1000 DPS at 6km. Its hardly ever doing anything close to 1000dps. Where as that person with artys fit is doing Max damage at 50 or more KM, Most things will die before they ever get to the 36 or so KM needed to get the most minimal damage out of a AC, and a lot more damage into falloff then the AC fit vaguar. But what can one expect from EFT warriors with little practical sense, or want to actually see how something else might work.
Your bluster in your response was rather cute, but very flawed.
|
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 01:23:00 -
[27]
What are you even talking about? Please stop posting.
|
Hadrielloress
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 01:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Transmaniacon Edited by: Transmaniacon on 20/06/2009 00:58:58 "Link the ship fit you are talking about and ill be happy to point out the major flaws in your thinking."
[Paladin, Train Amarr] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
945 DPS with T1 guns...
First major flaw,
We are talking about the Mimitar marauder. I cant believe you would do something so lame as to post a completely different ship then the one being discussed. Its about the dumbest way to make a point you could have chosen.
Next the ammo you use has you into falloff after about 33 Km And only a further 25 before its out of base fall off. Meaning your damage is much less then advertised.
Also its its limited to EM and thermal damage, meaning against angels and others enemies its damage is much less even more so then being outside the optimal.
Next you try EFT the dps with the highest damage Ammo, which For amarr you might use all the time but the Mimitar can choose damage type and do much more damage then the estimated DPS eft gives.
Next its clear you are including either implants or drones into your numbers. Just a A quick peek on a Implant less All 5 in EFT shows this is the case. So you are clearly trying to make a point with false pretenses.
You also use the Highest DPS Ammo, see above, and its also faction ammo at that to make it even more out of whack. If you want to see a real general comparison you should use the basic ammo that has no bonus or penalty. I used depleted uranium tech 1 as my numbers use. I also gave a range in my first post as i was looking at all the different damage types using tech1 ammo.
Its easy to go on, but its clear that you are using a very flawed and deliberately Skewed and manipulated example. In short its BS. This reeks of being almost a "straw man" of an example. |
Hadrielloress
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 01:32:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Hadrielloress on 20/06/2009 01:32:11
Originally by: Traderboz What are you even talking about? Please stop posting.
Too Deep for you?...
or maybe "NO YOU" is more your speed. |
Transmaniacon
Minmatar HOMELESS. Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 01:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Transmaniacon on 20/06/2009 01:51:28 Forum is stupid, see following post
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |