| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Reply to Topic | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
49
 |
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:47:00 -
[61] - Quote
Front page edited to reflect input from everyone.
Fighters removed Drone bay expanded. Logistics buff to Capital remote rep range 15% per level.
I also explained the balancing of the capacitor and the repair modules a bit more in detail on the front page so as to avoid confusion.
I am still open to further iterations on the idea, just please keep the criticism constructive. |

Retmas
Grim Determination Clockworks Inc. Nulli Tertius
10
 |
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:55:00 -
[62] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:Retmas wrote:first off, general response: i think you're thinking of these in a bit smaller terms than i am. you're thinking of them being effectively battleships. i disagree with that - this ship feels to me to be a touch smaller than an orca, if you understand my meaning. so, you'd need capital legos to build the thing, but you could also afford to enlarge it slightly - not a carrier's capacitor and HPs of course, but something comperable to a freighter or orca's HP values. see where i'm going with this?
as for large fights in nullsec, if you're familiar with the PL fleet doctrine they call "slowcats", that should answer your question right there, although i dont see why they would alter it to a smaller ship class in their specific case. a TL:DR as i understand it for slowcats: patheon RR carriers (not triage, in other words) that have sentries stuffed full in their drone bays. launch, assist to target popper, recieve 13k alpha every 4 seconds in whatever flavor you choose. regardless, if you make this orca sized, you wont see it in nano roams, but the possibility of keeping a wing, or even a doctrine of these in a state of readiness for an alliance is signifigant, especially for home defense fleets. their ability to put damage down on many different sizes of ships, balanced by their material cost and slowness, would serve particularly well there imo.
i like your explanation of large local v. capital remote. i'm still not sold on the capital remotes, but i respect why you came to that descision.
i'd like to again highlight the 20% damage/HP per level versus the +1 drone per level. i think that'd be all the buff you need to make them viable - fighters unfortunately would not be viable in a combat situation in null that i can think of. i think it best that they be scrapped - it's still a carrier in the fact that it's a drone dedicated platform capable of launching more than the usual 5. (guardian-vexors not included, of course.) I like how you structured your argument against fighters and as such I am willing to scrap the fighter argument unless someone smarter about carrier tactics than me can make the argument on more than aesthetics. As for the drones, I feel it is a good idea to have 10 without the damage buff rather than 5 with a damage buff. This would allow them to field otherwise less fielded drones in certain circumstances that don't benefit from a damage buff (like ECM, Target painter, web, etc). As for the sizing question with Orcas, I should point out that the shield and armor HPs of these are BETTER in most cases than the ORCA and the orca's only thing is structure (which is roughly 4X that of these) but since that can't be active tanked, it makes the overall tank ability about the same. I should point out that the concept art that i stole from deviant art (but gave credit to the artist) has some dimensions that I think are too small. The concept art dimensions are that of a BS, I think these should be more like 1200-1500m long give or take. Their masses and such on the stats I posted are more in keeping with general scale (2X a battleship size) of an Orca. EDIT: if just drones, then I would amend the stats of these ships to remove the fighter bay and increase the drone bay from 525 to 650 (to allow 10 heavy, 10 sentry, 10 med, 10 light drones in bay at once). Does it need to be more than that?
re: size, wasnt sure we were on the same page. now i am. o7
as for the drone bay, that sounds perfect.
now all we need is a blue post. -starts flagging down devs-
|

Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
160
 |
Posted - 2012.05.16 23:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:Front page edited to reflect input from everyone.
Fighters removed Drone bay expanded. Logistics buff to Capital remote rep range 15% per level.
I also explained the balancing of the capacitor and the repair modules a bit more in detail on the front page so as to avoid confusion.
I am still open to further iterations on the idea, just please keep the criticism constructive. Much closer to something that could be implemented than the original design.
Starting to look like something that could be fun to fly without being OP, also. |

Myrkala
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
5
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
One thing that is potentially a very powerful mechanic is if this ship enables you to refit, it would make BS gangs more versatile because they could refit in haste to adapt to a incoming or foreseeable situation, or even during fights. Think a bit about this, its a ship that can travel through gates and you can use it to refit...
So... ship fitting service? Would be a very nice option for WH dwellers too. Build price should be equivalent to an Orca or higher.
I can see how this ship could be nice for some doctrines, but as soon as you need mobility you are kind of miffed, then again most BS gangs are not very mobile.
This paired with the "warp 100km forward" module the devs are considering might be interesting... |

Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
13
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 05:39:00 -
[65] - Quote
I don't always fly a battleship.
But when I do it'll be an escort carrier. |

Retmas
Grim Determination Clockworks Inc. Nulli Tertius
10
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:19:00 -
[66] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote:I don't always fly a battleship.
But when I do it'll be an escort carrier.
your statement is invalid, this will be a capital ship on par with an orca or freighter. only, yknow, with teeth.
as for refitting services, that's a very touchy thing to play with. it's a good idea, but by the same tolken i also see vast potential for misuse and general shenannigans that would make these ships more powerful (being a virtual requirement for large fleets so as to refit tanks quickly) than they really ought to be. they should be an option, not a requirement, see? |

Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
14
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 07:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
Retmas wrote:your statement is invalid, this will be a capital ship on par with an orca or freighter. only, yknow, with teeth.
Seeing as battleship size/hull was tossed around in the first thread and is kicked around every second sentence here and battleship 4 is the main training hurdle. Thought we'd talked it down from a bigger ass capital carrier. In fact I thought that was the original point, wasn't it? >.>
|

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1459
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 09:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
Double post removed. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1459
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 09:07:00 -
[69] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:Front page edited to reflect input from everyone.
Fighters removed Drone bay expanded. Logistics buff to Capital remote rep range 15% per level.
I also explained the balancing of the capacitor and the repair modules a bit more in detail on the front page so as to avoid confusion.
I am still open to further iterations on the idea, just please keep the criticism constructive.
After reading this, my support for this iteration took a nose dive. |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
50
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 13:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Loius Woo wrote:Front page edited to reflect input from everyone.
Fighters removed Drone bay expanded. Logistics buff to Capital remote rep range 15% per level.
I also explained the balancing of the capacitor and the repair modules a bit more in detail on the front page so as to avoid confusion.
I am still open to further iterations on the idea, just please keep the criticism constructive. After reading this, my support for this iteration took a nose dive.
Please explain, The idea is still undergoing evolution and so things are open to debate.
Though, after these changes, the general support for them has gone up so..be compelling. |
|

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
50
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 13:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote:Retmas wrote:your statement is invalid, this will be a capital ship on par with an orca or freighter. only, yknow, with teeth.
Seeing as battleship size/hull was tossed around in the first thread and is kicked around every second sentence here and battleship 4 is the main training hurdle. Thought we'd talked it down from a bigger ass capital carrier. In fact I thought that was the original point, wasn't it? >.>
They are like large battleships in a sense, they are also capitals in a sense.
They don't require capital ships skill, but they are the size or Orcas and require Advanced Spaceship Command (Like capitals and freighters).
They are designed to be used in conjunction with BS gangs. |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
50
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 13:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
Myrkala wrote:One thing that is potentially a very powerful mechanic is if this ship enables you to refit, it would make BS gangs more versatile because they could refit in haste to adapt to a incoming or foreseeable situation, or even during fights. Think a bit about this, its a ship that can travel through gates and you can use it to refit...
So... ship fitting service? Would be a very nice option for WH dwellers too. Build price should be equivalent to an Orca or higher.
I can see how this ship could be nice for some doctrines, but as soon as you need mobility you are kind of miffed, then again most BS gangs are not very mobile.
This paired with the "warp 100km forward" module the devs are considering might be interesting...
They have ship maintenance bays... So yes, they have fitting service. But the ship bay and corp hanger are 25% the size of a carrier so there is not a TON of room for swapping out, but I see your point that it makes a BS gang a bit more versatile....working as intended.
Agreed that the warp 100km could make for some interesting doctrines. |

mama guru
Evolution IT Alliance
45
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 15:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
We've been over this.
We don't need escort carriers we need our normal carriers to be cheaper and have their roles more clrearly defined. ______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak. |

Sentinel zx
Shadow Phoenix Special Forces
2
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 16:07:00 -
[74] - Quote
Quote: We've been over this.
We don't need escort carriers we need our normal carriers to be cheaper and have their roles more clrearly defined.
hm..how about to give the normal carriers some slots
3 high-slots or maybe 2 for Gang Assist Modules  1 med-slot 1 low-slot |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
51
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 16:22:00 -
[75] - Quote
mama guru wrote:We've been over this.
We don't need escort carriers we need our normal carriers to be cheaper and have their roles more clrearly defined.
Have we? Have we really been over this?
Cause I haven't seen you post in either this forum thread or my other one (linked on OP) and I scanned your posting history and don't see any posts in any thread that deals with this idea specifically.
So, please reread the original post where I said specifically that this is NOT a "fix capitals" thread, it is a NEW ship class idea thread.
If you feel that way about carriers, I suggest you start new thread, title it "Lets fix carriers" and post your idea. I will even read it and provide feedback if I can. Until you CONTRIBUTE to the conversation, you can't just pop in, say what you just said and pop out. Thats not how discourse works.
|

Lianail Deninard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 16:28:00 -
[76] - Quote
I definitely love the idea. However, I'm not into the bonuses to the reppers. It's a carrier. Give the bonuses to rep drones!
-a Reward law abiding citizens. We should never promote sociopathic behavior as a primary mode of interaction.-a There are-areasons for Good people to fight, such as defending their nation. Encourage people to become heros, not villians. -a If you agree with an idea, Like it. |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
52
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 16:32:00 -
[77] - Quote
Lianail Deninard wrote:I definitely love the idea. However, I'm not into the bonuses to the reppers. It's a carrier. Give the bonuses to rep drones!
In order to have the same repair amount as ONE capital repairer, the bonus would have to be 1000% (10X) the rep amount of tech II repair drones.
Not to mention, then this would be encroaching on the territory of logistics cruisers (long range rep)
Also, you would be able to repair completely free of worries about capacitor.
So in summary, I think that this is a terrible idea.
Use of logistics drones would have its place, but they cannot take the place of capital reppers in this instance, it just doesn't work. |

Lianail Deninard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 16:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote: In order to have the same repair amount as ONE capital repairer, the bonus would have to be 1000% (10X) the rep amount of tech II repair drones.
Not to mention, then this would be encroaching on the territory of logistics cruisers (long range rep)
Also, you would be able to repair completely free of worries about capacitor.
So in summary, I think that this is a terrible idea.
Use of logistics drones would have its place, but they cannot take the place of capital reppers in this instance, it just doesn't work.
The drones lack of large amounts of repping capacity offsets the long range capability so it doesn't infringe too heavily on the role of the logistics cruiser. I was thinking of a 100% bonus per level. The same is true of the capacitor requirements. This is a carrier after all, not a rep ship. If this is for a BS fleet, and able to go where other capitals can't, then the repping should be on par with BS capabilities, not Capital ships. -a Reward law abiding citizens. We should never promote sociopathic behavior as a primary mode of interaction.-a There are-areasons for Good people to fight, such as defending their nation. Encourage people to become heros, not villians. -a If you agree with an idea, Like it. |

Lianail Deninard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 16:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
This may belong in another discussion entirely, but instead of having remote repping bonuses, allow Internal repping capability. A docked ship can be repaired at the same rate as a capital repper. This would require the creation of a new subsystem or module unique to carriers. -a Reward law abiding citizens. We should never promote sociopathic behavior as a primary mode of interaction.-a There are-areasons for Good people to fight, such as defending their nation. Encourage people to become heros, not villians. -a If you agree with an idea, Like it. |

Lianail Deninard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 17:12:00 -
[80] - Quote
Two more options to consider. I hope these weren't in the original thread you replaced with this one.
So far, I see this listed with BS Skills. But with the kind of capabilities this thing is going to have, it's as far above a BS as a BC is above a cruiser. Use the same model. Give it the capabilities, but add a new "Subcapital" skill, just like "Battlecruiser" is separate from cruiser.
Consider requiring the use of subsystems just like T3 cruisers. Perhaps allow the carrier subsystems?
-a Reward law abiding citizens. We should never promote sociopathic behavior as a primary mode of interaction.-a There are-areasons for Good people to fight, such as defending their nation. Encourage people to become heros, not villians. -a If you agree with an idea, Like it. |
|

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
54
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 18:57:00 -
[81] - Quote
Lianail Deninard wrote: The drones lack of large amounts of repping capacity offsets the long range capability so it doesn't infringe too heavily on the role of the logistics cruiser. I was thinking of a 100% bonus per level. The same is true of the capacitor requirements. This is a carrier after all, not a rep ship. If this is for a BS fleet, and able to go where other capitals can't, then the repping should be on par with BS capabilities, not Capital ships.
Repping is NOT on par with capitals, the amount is on par, but it can't sustain that for even one whole minute without capital capacitor transfers from a cap ship. Read the balancing part about cap stability.
Lianail Deninard wrote: This may belong in another discussion entirely, but instead of having remote repping bonuses, allow Internal repping capability. A docked ship can be repaired at the same rate as a capital repper. This would require the creation of a new subsystem or module unique to carriers.
What? Docking? I don't even want to talk about how bad an idea that is and a can of worms it would be. How do they dock? How long? How many? Whats the point? Can they still be attacked?
In short, this idea is very very bad.
Lianail Deninard wrote:So far, I see this listed with BS Skills. But with the kind of capabilities this thing is going to have, it's as far above a BS as a BC is above a cruiser. Use the same model. Give it the capabilities, but add a new "Subcapital" skill, just like "Battlecruiser" is separate from cruiser. BC isn't on the required path from Cruiser to BS. The same would be true with this.
Consider requiring the use of subsystems just like T3 cruisers. Perhaps allow the carrier subsystems?
DIdnt you see "racial escort carrier skill" on the OP? Did you READ the OP? I have my doubts.
As for a T3 system, why? This is not meant to be a T3 ship, but a T1 ship of a sub capital combat ship.
Your posts (not only annoying in triple posting) lead me to believe that you simply didn't get what the original post was talking about since you seem to have no idea how these ships would be used.
|

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
54
 |
Posted - 2012.05.18 06:41:00 -
[82] - Quote
It seems that I am not getting any negative feedback at this point.
Can I take that as evidence that this is a good idea? |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
54
 |
Posted - 2012.05.18 07:09:00 -
[83] - Quote
I think I would kill for a dev post in this thread... |

HeavensGuard
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
1
 |
Posted - 2012.05.18 07:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
I've always wanted them to add more types of carriers/drone boats, I mean I know theres ships like the ishtar and dominix ect but they're pretty much just normal ships with big drone bays, I'd like to see ships with no turret or missile hardpoints, more dedicated drone ships, the escort carrier could take up the slot next to battleships and I'd also like to see cruiser sized ones too.. so these ships kinda split the ship types in 2, the turret and missile ships would be the more up front, in your face type of damage dealers and the other line of ships would be support type of ships that can deal out some damage but are mainly for support, logistics, recons ect can fall into this line...
but I guess that would be a lot of work and would mean having to tweak all the ships... You think you die and everything will be sugar and rainbows ? |

Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
15
 |
Posted - 2012.05.18 08:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Honestly, you've lost me on the idea now all things considered.
I would love a BS or even BC sized pure carrier . Something more akin to an actual aircraft carrier ( not an EVE carrier ). Something that specializes in drones and works through drones with bonuses to range, damage, rep or e-war drone use. With a generous amount of high and mid to fit utility modules to assist the fleet. Something that requires you to sit back and orchestrate combat or support. Lots of options for how and where to apply your resources at any given moment in a fight. But vunerable in a direct fight with a frontline combat ship such as another BS/BC.
Something more like a scaled up Arbitrator focused on fleet utility with emphasis on having to do its primary functions through drones.
I honestly don't care about capital ships nor ever want to fly one. I don't want nor need something to bridge me into capitals with capital specific abilities. Which is where all the contention seems to be coming from with this idea. |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
54
 |
Posted - 2012.05.18 15:41:00 -
[86] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote: I honestly don't care about capital ships nor ever want to fly one. I don't want nor need something to bridge me into capitals with capital specific abilities. Which is where all the contention seems to be coming from with this idea.
Actually all of the contention as far as I could see was with fighters or with questions regarding the right mix of logistics. Not anything about capitals.... unless you count capital reps, but that was more about the REPS than the CAPITAL part.
I understand you dont want bigger ships and that is fine, this is a bigger ship so it probably isnt what you are looking for and that is fine too.
Thanks for your input. |

Zakuak
WISE OUTCASTS Eternal Evocations
5
 |
Posted - 2012.05.18 20:01:00 -
[87] - Quote
Looking good now Loi...I support this.
Glad to see the fighters gone. I feel the EC should be that last stepping stone into caps and a nice drone bonus seems more on par with the progression. Good size, nice layout and well thought out. |

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
55
 |
Posted - 2012.05.19 01:27:00 -
[88] - Quote
Zakuak wrote:Looking good now Loi...I support this.
Glad to see the fighters gone. I feel the EC should be that last stepping stone into caps and a nice drone bonus seems more on par with the progression. Good size, nice layout and well thought out.
Thank you |

TheButcherPete
Specter Syndicate CORE Alliance
173
 |
Posted - 2012.05.19 01:54:00 -
[89] - Quote
The bonuses of all the ships seem kinda the same, blah blah same ship, different model / texture. My moncole doubles as a cigarette lighter, a flashlight, a laser and x-ray goggles. If you haven't noticed yet, I'm in love with Punkturis. -a-a-a
|

Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
56
 |
Posted - 2012.05.19 02:35:00 -
[90] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:The bonuses of all the ships seem kinda the same, blah blah same ship, different model / texture.
What would you suggest?
I could see an additional bonus dependent on race (like ECM bonus for caldari, capacitor bonus for Amarr or something, perhaps even a bonus to specific types of drones for each race)
Or do you suggest changing the bonuses that are there now to make them different?
Please provide some input, I am willing to discuss.
Some possible bonuses that I can think of off the top of my head are:
Caldari: 15% per level to effectiveness of EWAR drones.
Amarr: 5% bonus to armor resists per level
Gallente: 15% per level to drone damage
Minmatar: 20% bonus to drone speed per level
Just brainstorming. |
|
|
|
| |
Reply to Topic |
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |