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Cpt Lollercakes
Gallente Lucky Hydra Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.30 03:07:00 -
[91]
The Mittani, you are full of FAILLLL!!!!111
Only kidding, it's an amusing, well observed piece. It does however have a glaring omission.
It lists "just the facts", "the inspiring post", "the big speech", "the red pen", "the tax hike", "chat ****", and "outright bribery" but where is "the bear trap"?
This is where the "master" makes a wilfully inept defence of the "pets" space, and the reason I described its omission as "glaring" was because Period Basis provided a wonderful and recent paradigm of this strategy...
RKZ faced a difficult choice: Their favourite pet EXE (they had the best kennel, and the biggest and shiniest food bowl, even if the inscription read "MC") held a sov 4 constellation (PA-) that had remained untouched for the 1st 3 months of the southern war. Now KIA and ZAF were tower spamming, and an invasion was imminent, and EXE obviously want to try to defend it.
Sov mechanics mean that this could easily drag on for weeks and this was clearly going to distract their participation levels from Querious. RKZ didn't want that, and would prefer to abandon it all together, but that was just as likely to backlash on participation with the "WTF are we fighting for them, when they won't help us".
RKZ weren't willing to lose their foothold in Querious to defend PB, but can't be seen not to act.
RKZ's answer was amazingly simple, take over command of their defence, and then tell them to cycle the Z-M cyno jammer so they can bring the RKZ's mighty cap fleet in. 250 hostile bridge in as well, and a sov 4 constellation is effectively subsumed in a weekend (a record?). Which means that by the Monday the "pets" have no where to go, or place to be other than 49-U.
Brilliant part of this is (AFAIK), the order for the cyno jammer to be offlined came directly from Molle; famed as much for his tactical blunders as his cyncism towards RKZ's pets. I believe the phrase is "plausible deniability".
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Snot Shot
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.30 03:42:00 -
[92]
Cpt Lollercakes, I know your all excited about your take on what's going on down here but you need to relax a little and get out from under mits~ desk for a second. There is nothing RKZ/EXE could do about loosing space while all of EVE is NAP'd and in the South against them. If you missed that simple fact amidst the bs mits~ is throwing then you are easily led. Someone else clicked their left mouse button and ever since mits~ has been riding this 5 minutes of fame by throwing isk at the NC to show up each week...
Just sayin...
Dr. Shot
Just sayin..... |
SavageBastard
Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.30 04:08:00 -
[93]
Edited by: SavageBastard on 30/05/2009 04:09:58
Originally by: Cpt Lollercakes The Mittani, you are full of FAILLLL!!!!111
Only kidding, it's an amusing, well observed piece. It does however have a glaring omission.
It lists "just the facts", "the inspiring post", "the big speech", "the red pen", "the tax hike", "chat ****", and "outright bribery" but where is "the bear trap"?
This is where the "master" makes a wilfully inept defence of the "pets" space, and the reason I described its omission as "glaring" was because Period Basis provided a wonderful and recent paradigm of this strategy...
RKZ faced a difficult choice: Their favourite pet EXE (they had the best kennel, and the biggest and shiniest food bowl, even if the inscription read "MC") held a sov 4 constellation (PA-) that had remained untouched for the 1st 3 months of the southern war. Now KIA and ZAF were tower spamming, and an invasion was imminent, and EXE obviously want to try to defend it.
Sov mechanics mean that this could easily drag on for weeks and this was clearly going to distract their participation levels from Querious. RKZ didn't want that, and would prefer to abandon it all together, but that was just as likely to backlash on participation with the "WTF are we fighting for them, when they won't help us".
RKZ weren't willing to lose their foothold in Querious to defend PB, but can't be seen not to act.
RKZ's answer was amazingly simple, take over command of their defence, and then tell them to cycle the Z-M cyno jammer so they can bring the RKZ's mighty cap fleet in. 250 hostile bridge in as well, and a sov 4 constellation is effectively subsumed in a weekend (a record?). Which means that by the Monday the "pets" have no where to go, or place to be other than 49-U.
Brilliant part of this is (AFAIK), the order for the cyno jammer to be offlined came directly from Molle; famed as much for his tactical blunders as his cyncism towards RKZ's pets. I believe the phrase is "plausible deniability".
This is probably the most accurate take on this I've seen by a non-Goon member. You know how you know it's accurate?
Originally by: Snot Shot
Cpt Lollercakes, I know your all excited about your take on what's going on down here but you need to relax a little and get out from under mits~ desk for a second. There is nothing RKZ/EXE could do about loosing space while all of EVE is NAP'd and in the South against them. If you missed that simple fact amidst the bs mits~ is throwing then you are easily led. Someone else clicked their left mouse button and ever since mits~ has been riding this 5 minutes of fame by throwing isk at the NC to show up each week...
Just sayin...
Dr. Shot
Because a ******ed troll responded to it immediately with standard RKZ talking points. HALF OF EVE IS NAP'D! (Never mind that the other half is here fighting us).
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Thucydides Milesias
Amarr Shadow Legion inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.30 04:10:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Snot Shot
Cpt Lollercakes, I know your all excited about your take on what's going on down here but you need to relax a little and get out from under mits~ desk for a second. There is nothing RKZ/EXE could do about loosing space while all of EVE is NAP'd and in the South against them. If you missed that simple fact amidst the bs mits~ is throwing then you are easily led. Someone else clicked their left mouse button and ever since mits~ has been riding this 5 minutes of fame by throwing isk at the NC to show up each week...
Just sayin...
Dr. Shot
You are hilariously misinformed.
The amount of *****ing that goes on in the NC because Goonswarm isn't paying them is a matter of public record.
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Snowden Vel
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.30 04:16:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Thucydides Milesias
Originally by: Snot Shot
Cpt Lollercakes, I know your all excited about your take on what's going on down here but you need to relax a little and get out from under mits~ desk for a second. There is nothing RKZ/EXE could do about loosing space while all of EVE is NAP'd and in the South against them. If you missed that simple fact amidst the bs mits~ is throwing then you are easily led. Someone else clicked their left mouse button and ever since mits~ has been riding this 5 minutes of fame by throwing isk at the NC to show up each week...
Just sayin...
Dr. Shot
You are hilariously misinformed.
The amount of *****ing that goes on in the NC because Goonswarm isn't paying them is a matter of public record.
the best payment is ~good fights~
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Cpt Lollercakes
Gallente Lucky Hydra Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.30 12:25:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Snot Shot
There is nothing RKZ/EXE could do about loosing space while all of EVE is NAP'd and in the South against them.
Beam me up snotty! Interesting use of the word nothing. I think you will find that other entities have attempted to defend their sov 4 constelations more sucessfully - mainly because they didn't offline their cyno jammers and let massive hostile fleets jump in.....
PB wasn't affected significantly by 4th feb, and the default tactical template for the defence of a sov 3/4 involves forcing the hostiles to jumo into your bubbled gates, where a couple of titans are employed as "greeters", because the cyno jammers were kept online.
Take your pick Snotty, is RKZ led by the truly incompetent or the frighteningly cynical. The facts are not in dispute, the evidence equivocal. So you choose mate, which flavour do you prefer?
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Snot Shot
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.30 14:32:00 -
[97]
Simply stated Z-M was going to go down tactical err or not there Lolipop. The zippy write up you present above made it sound like Ken/EXE had a chance to keep PB but blew it...
u mad?~.......just sayin
Dr. Shot
Just sayin..... |
Cpt Lollercakes
Gallente Lucky Hydra Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.30 15:48:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Snot Shot
Simply stated Z-M was going to go down tactical err or not there Lolipop. The zippy write up you present above made it sound like Ken/EXE had a chance to keep PB but blew it...
u mad?~.......just sayin
Dr. Shot
Nice try with the diversion. Taking into account the the forces arrayed against them, they would likely not have held PB, but what I said is this: RKZ either purposely sabotaged the defence of PB in order to make sure their no.1 pet would be fully focused on Querious, or made an absolutely massive tactical blunder. Historical evidence suggests Molle to be perfectly capable of either.
This thread is, after all, about the tactics employed by alliances to bolster participation. Sorry for being on topic....
u mad?
Only in the secure psychiatric facility sense.
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.31 15:53:00 -
[99]
Edited by: The Mittani on 31/05/2009 15:53:22
Originally by: Cpt Lollercakes (snip) RKZ's answer was amazingly simple, take over command of their defence, and then tell them to cycle the Z-M cyno jammer so they can bring the RKZ's mighty cap fleet in. 250 hostile bridge in as well, and a sov 4 constellation is effectively subsumed in a weekend (a record?). Which means that by the Monday the "pets" have no where to go, or place to be other than 49-U.
Brilliant part of this is (AFAIK), the order for the cyno jammer to be offlined came directly from Molle; famed as much for his tactical blunders as his cyncism towards RKZ's pets. I believe the phrase is "plausible deniability".
At the risk of quoting Sir Humphrey Appleby, you may be mistaking lethargy for strategy.
'Pet Defense' has always been an issue for KenGoku, even when they were BoB. Their response to the fall of RISE was remarkably schizophrenic - just as their response to Skunk-Works' fall now. The reason why I don't see the 'bear trap' as a method is that it doesn't actually increase participation at all - nor was it an intentional act.
Regarding your most recent example: Due to spies, we were able to watch as the strategy shifted from "Ignore Period Basis, Move EXE to Querious" to "OH GOD DEFEND PERIOD BASIS" in the last two days, in response almost entirely to being trolled about abandoning EXE - even though Mo'Chusile, reliable sycophant that he is, had been very vocally on board with abandoning Period Basis without a fight in the days prior to the Z-M incident.
In EVE we have to resist the urge to consider conspiracies when more simple explanations are available. An 'intentional jammer down' in Z-M was a source of utter humiliation for KenGoku and Molle in particular because it was such a boneheaded move; the primary motive of an "elite pvp" organization such as KenGoku isn't lols, prankes, or 'good fights', but rather enjoying the benefits to the ego of being hailed as elite - regardless of actual personal, nonpublic skill. Reputation damage is a searing thing - Z-M was an error in judgment, not a carefully-crafted plan.
Anyway, just think about it. There is no 'BoB Brain Trust'. Who are their leaders? How well educated are they? How cunning are they - how much of a history of deception do they have? The record shows a history of almost scandalous unsubtlety combined with a studied contempt of the 'quiet path'.
The counterargument which will inevitably be proffered to this accusation - KenGoku's crippling, endemic lack of subtlety - is that KenGoku makes use of spies readily, and brags openly of this fact. This is quite true, but examine how a KenGoku spy works. People like AJ Regard and x10 are constantly having their agents ousted because they cannot help but brag in local channels about how they have an agent. They respond to insults on hostile teamspeak by timestamping themselves; they spy, but the fact that they spy is flaunted. The public boasting is more critical than the intelligence gathered from keeping mum.
In Goonswarm, of course, we publish chat **** and this will occasionally burn agents, but this is not the same act as timestamping oneself in local because you want to, need to, try to demonstrate some kind of superiority. KenGoku's chronic clumsiness extends from their grand strategy all the way to their espionage program.
:words:
Sorry, I have to reply in a serious way to column stuff, here's some tildes for your trouble~~~~~~
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Himo Amasacia
Minmatar Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.31 18:35:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Himo Amasacia on 31/05/2009 18:35:31 A prime example of which was when AJ ****** started sperging out in local due to our unmerciful mocking of him and his buttbudies on Teamspeak on saturday. Seriously guys, you are so pathetic at this point, that you cant resist showing any kind of power anymore even when it would make sense.
Anyway what amuses me is they have dragged 25 alliances into the fray... and the pattern is always the same. After a few weeks of exposure to the charisma and FCing skill of Kenny Superstars... they all slowly and irreversably start saying "**** this" and stop turning up. SCA, for example went thriough a phase of acting independantly of Kenny in Querious as they Lost confuidence in the competence of Kenny FCs, then simply could not stand to be in the same fleets as them anymore. So Kenny/AAA have to keep napping more and more Alliances to keep numbers up, while screaming "NAPFEST!!!" on forums. Thats why every battle thiese days is 20 alliances (them) vs 5 or 6. Some napfest. But then insecure people always have to accuse others of what they are guilty of .
Of course the fact that our allies compleatly rock means a lot.
"Constant practice devoted to one subject often outdoes both intelligence and skill." -Cicero |
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Talon Scorpio
Caldari Black Nova Corp KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.06.01 03:37:00 -
[101]
Originally by: The Mittani
Anyway, just think about it. There is no 'BoB Brain Trust'. Who are their leaders? How well educated are they? How cunning are they - how much of a history of deception do they have? The record shows a history of almost scandalous unsubtlety combined with a studied contempt of the 'quiet path'.
:words:
Words indeed. Does the irony of what you are saying here entirely escape you? I don't think it does.
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Soggybottom
Gallente The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.01 05:03:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Talon Scorpio
Originally by: The Mittani
Anyway, just think about it. There is no 'BoB Brain Trust'. Who are their leaders? How well educated are they? How cunning are they - how much of a history of deception do they have? The record shows a history of almost scandalous unsubtlety combined with a studied contempt of the 'quiet path'.
:words:
~~Patience~~
Fixed that for you Talons.
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Will Hunter
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.01 05:51:00 -
[103]
oh snap
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Vashan Tar
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.01 06:43:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Soggybottom
Originally by: Talon Scorpio
Originally by: The Mittani
Anyway, just think about it. There is no 'BoB Brain Trust'. Who are their leaders? How well educated are they? How cunning are they - how much of a history of deception do they have? The record shows a history of almost scandalous unsubtlety combined with a studied contempt of the 'quiet path'.
:words:
~~Patience~~
Fixed that for you Talons.
SILENCE
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Kuolematon
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.06.01 07:34:00 -
[105]
Originally by: The Mittani WHY DO YOU ALL HAVE PERIODS IN YOUR ALLIANCE NAMES JESUS CHRIST WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE
:argh:
I know! It's like FOTY or something! I have been saying this like EVER.
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Lord Zoran
Caldari Order of Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.06.01 11:30:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Lord Zoran on 01/06/2009 11:30:41 tbh was an unexpected nice read so well done for that :) oh and periods are cool, except when they're on your face......
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King Dead
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.01 11:38:00 -
[107]
Some people like that kind of thing.
The Internet told me so.
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