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Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.27 14:31:00 -
[1]
A year (or more) ago, there was a dev blog that stated that you were concentrating on re-writing some of the cluster code, and the client, to C++ from Python as part of the "Need for Speed" initiative.
I was just wondering how this process was going, and how far it has gotten as I recently listened to one of the old pod casts where Hilmar (I think?) stated the UI was going to be/in the process of being optimised and re-writen.
We all know Python's easy to write in, but moving over to the much more robust and speedy C++ would no doubt speed things up considerably. --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Darwin Duck
Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel Navy
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Posted - 2009.05.27 15:11:00 -
[2]
Biggest problem with Python is the programming language does not allow them to use multiple CPU's to power ie Jita. I'm also wondering how this is going, haven't heard jack about it in a long time. I have a little impression of CCP changing focus on what to do too often, but I might be mistaken. They seem to consentrate on too many things at the same time instead of trying to finish things before going for something new.
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Borsek
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.27 15:13:00 -
[3]
Bump!
Mesa wants to know too!
Bump! For great justice! I eat pie, then you die. |
Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.27 15:13:00 -
[4]
Aye, they also use a C++ Python interpreter, which is always going to slow things down when you could have it in pure C++. --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.28 02:33:00 -
[5]
Ickle bumpy :(? --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.28 03:02:00 -
[6]
Porting to C++ isn't a universal fix. Most of the problems they have are architectural and scaling bottlenecks, the biggest of which is finding a feasible way to add parallelism to the space simulation aspect of nodes. Its beyond non-trivial, and the equivalent of gutting the core of the game. They probably have a long term project for it because single thread performance hasn't increased more than 20% every two years. Being able to find and implement a scalable solution would be the holy grail of endgame pvp.
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.28 03:26:00 -
[7]
MORE HAMSTERS!!!! _________________________ NERF CLONES!!!
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Darwin Duck
Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel Navy
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Posted - 2009.05.28 11:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr MORE HAMSTERS!!!!
They have already stated that more hamsters won't help them since Python does not allow them to assign more than 1 cpu core for each system, so they are limited by how fast the fastest cpu cores on the market are. Parts of the servercode has to be reprogramed in ie C++ in order for them to be able to assign more hamsters to the high load systems.
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Ninjitsuki
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.28 11:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Darwin Duck Biggest problem with Python is the programming language does not allow them to use multiple CPU's to power ie Jita.
Stackless python, which is used for eve, does support multi threading.
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Slave 2739FKZ
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Posted - 2009.05.28 11:54:00 -
[10]
Making the game in Python in the first place seems like a TERRIBAD idea?
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Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.28 12:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Porting to C++ isn't a universal fix. Most of the problems they have are architectural and scaling bottlenecks, the biggest of which is finding a feasible way to add parallelism to the space simulation aspect of nodes. Its beyond non-trivial, and the equivalent of gutting the core of the game. They probably have a long term project for it because single thread performance hasn't increased more than 20% every two years. Being able to find and implement a scalable solution would be the holy grail of endgame pvp.
Re-writing the UI in pure C++ would speed it up considerably. --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Darwin Duck
Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel Navy
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Posted - 2009.05.28 12:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ninjitsuki Edited by: Ninjitsuki on 28/05/2009 11:50:43
Originally by: Darwin Duck Biggest problem with Python is the programming language does not allow them to use multiple CPU's to power ie Jita.
Stackless python, which is used for eve, does support multi threading.
*edit*
Thats not what devs said in the interviews videos during the tournament.
Originally by: Darwin Duck They have already stated that more hamsters won't help them since Python does not allow them to assign more than 1 cpu core for each system.
Really? Hmm guess those micro threads don't scale up as well as I imagined.
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Othran
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Posted - 2009.05.28 12:41:00 -
[13]
I'm not sure I've ever heard C++ being described as "robust" before :) I think you'll find that most s/w engineers would disagree with you....
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Ninjitsuki
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.28 13:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Darwin Duck Thats not what devs said in the interviews videos during the tournament
You're right. It's sort of multithreaded, but apparently not at the OS level. Looks like they just like to make it hard on themselves.
Well, then I heartily agree with the OP, good luck with the rewrite in C++.
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Callista Sincera
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Posted - 2009.05.28 13:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ Making the game in Python in the first place seems like a TERRIBAD idea?
True - until you consider real world constraints like ... uhm, MONEY.
From what I remember, they had some pretty rough times in the beginning. I think they even almost lost their rights to the game when their first (errm, only) publisher went bankrupt and the devs didn't get payed for months.
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Tyslas
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Posted - 2009.05.28 13:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Othran I'm not sure I've ever heard C++ being described as "robust" before :) I think you'll find that most s/w engineers would disagree with you....
"Locked and loaded magnum, pointed at your foot" is what we get taught.
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Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.28 15:49:00 -
[17]
Still no reply as to the progress :(? --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.28 16:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Grez Re-writing the UI in pure C++ would speed it up considerably.
It would also make changing it a huge pain in the ass. The past issue with the UI was that it was making a lot of draw calls, and therefore CPU-bound much of the game. EVE was written back in the era of fixed pixel/vertex hardware, but now that the code has been consolidated to run some of the complex parts on the GPU, the UI is no longer a significant performance issue. Its problem with it is one of usability.
Raw client speed is great, but EVE barely taxes the hardware from the last three generations. Most of the performance concerns are server-side now.
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Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.28 16:13:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Grez on 28/05/2009 16:17:16 The UI is still CPU bound iirc.
<edit> Infact, I know it isn't run on the GPU. My graphics card has activity @ 71% when EVE is running, when I ctrl-tab, that activity does not go down, yet the fps increases by a small amount.
All I want to know is how far along the move away from Python is. --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
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