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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.05.06 21:09:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: FievelGoesPostal
Nah, we moved out to Stacmon. Couldnt get a decent fight there in Dodixie anymore, and it looks like we moved just before the lag got really bad.
Yeah it has changed for the worse. I try to stay out of Dodixie (except for the odd war target I need to follow). It's turning into a mini-Jita.
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I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Veebora
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.06 23:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Pride NL
As soon as the repped person attacks the repper wil be flagged. It is intended game mechanics.
As far as the GM's are concerned anyway. Just ignore and proceed. People that get killed by this tactic are plain stupid.
You are wrong, it doesn't happens in FW.
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.05.07 04:00:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Intigo
A lot of people use this now unfortunately.
Doesn't change the fact that it's downright pathetic, obviously.
This.
There's a few peeps I know of that use it, and no idea why. We certainly haven't had any need for it.
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Scouty McAlt
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:53:00 -
[34]
battlecruiser + 100mn MWD = epic bumps. Seriously throw a logi cruiser 40km+ from wherever it was. Lock, kill, lulz.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.05.08 17:22:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Robert0288
as soon as it happends its not 'neutral' anymore is it? Just gives you more targets
Who complains about to few targets?
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Tuvar Hiede
Caldari
L8L8L8
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Posted - 2009.05.08 18:50:00 -
[36]
your missing another important factor. We had a alliance dec some friends. We showed up to the engagement in web BS's hoping to get shot to engage. The were aggroed and the alliance fleet was slaughtered. Ive also had a rr dock and attack in a combat ship. RR should be fixed til then see ya in low sec where its all fair game.
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Bestofworst
Gallente
Double Eagle Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.08 21:33:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Scouty McAlt
battlecruiser + 100mn MWD = epic bumps. Seriously throw a logi cruiser 40km+ from wherever it was. Lock, kill, lulz.
Wasn't bumping deemed an exploit though, unlike Neut RRing?
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Mystafyre
Caldari
Dark Materials
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.05.08 22:09:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Johnny Gurkha
This advice goes out to any new corps entering FW, fly on a level playing field with others - use the same tactics!
Why sacrifice a Falcon alt in your own corp who will surely die? Needless expense! Use remote reppers in a neutral corp and guarantee a win!
This shout out goes to Atomic Battle Penguins who are using these highly dubious tactics to great effect in Old Man Star to pad killboard stats!
Who says PVP has risk!
Best laughs ever in this game I had couple years ago with maller and guardian combo. I stole miners cans with maller, waited untill they brought in something stupid like torp ravens and then warped my alt in guardian in and pwn'd them all. 
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Johnny Gurkha
Templum of Diabolus
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Posted - 2009.05.08 23:24:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mystafyre
Originally by: Johnny Gurkha
This advice goes out to any new corps entering FW, fly on a level playing field with others - use the same tactics!
Why sacrifice a Falcon alt in your own corp who will surely die? Needless expense! Use remote reppers in a neutral corp and guarantee a win!
This shout out goes to Atomic Battle Penguins who are using these highly dubious tactics to great effect in Old Man Star to pad killboard stats!
Who says PVP has risk!
Best laughs ever in this game I had couple years ago with maller and guardian combo. I stole miners cans with maller, waited untill they brought in something stupid like torp ravens and then warped my alt in guardian in and pwn'd them all.
Listen to the green midget
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Hidden Snake
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Posted - 2009.05.09 09:25:00 -
[40]
It is funny how ccp screw fleet and war mechanics in last month. Everything was working ok one month ago. Now in fw and high sec u have no ****ing idea who u r fighting because there wardecs with which fleet cannot help you and RR neuts which cannot be attacked or concorded.
Please fire the designer who started his job in this area and repair all the **** u did in last month.
Thnx
****ed off faction soldier
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Nemesis Starkiller
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:18:00 -
[41]
The simple solution would be to make any additional account for each player cost 500 times more. Ergo no 'alts'.
Would make everything a level playing feild again.
One account to one player 
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Silvitni
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:22:00 -
[42]
Cheese anyone?
It¦s really not about game mechanics.
It¦s about adapting. There is a solution to every problem.
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Hidden Snake
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:32:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Hidden Snake on 09/05/2009 12:35:04
Edited by: Hidden Snake on 09/05/2009 12:33:57
Originally by: Silvitni
Cheese anyone?
It¦s really not about game mechanics.
It¦s about adapting. There is a solution to every problem.
u can adapt to featutes, not to a bug .... Bug has to be fixed. just a note from my RL job.
Of course if somebody in CCP thinks it is feature, then only solution is to fire the idiot.
I must say that with this idiotic stuff FW is starting to get bitter taste of 0.0 politics (and 0.0 sucks u know too and ccp is very aware of it).
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 13:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Nemesis Starkiller
The simple solution would be to make any additional account for each player cost 500 times more. Ergo no 'alts'.
Would make everything a level playing feild again.
One account to one player
As much as I would love this feature, CCP has made it clear that they support people running 5-10 clients. Anything to pay the bills. (People talk about the logoffski as being the lamest metagaming tactic in EVE, but I think the spy and scout alts are far more lame.)
This is a post. It says stuff. |
Hidden Snake
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Posted - 2009.05.10 11:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Pater Peccavi
Originally by: Nemesis Starkiller
The simple solution would be to make any additional account for each player cost 500 times more. Ergo no 'alts'.
Would make everything a level playing feild again.
One account to one player
As much as I would love this feature, CCP has made it clear that they support people running 5-10 clients. Anything to pay the bills. (People talk about the logoffski as being the lamest metagaming tactic in EVE, but I think the spy and scout alts are far more lame.)
well i must say i do not care too much about the alts etc. What sucks is if you join fight/war you should take the full consequences (especially in FW it makes sense - as corps enlisted in FW should be in favour of the faction).
Otherwise it is bacoming ****y as 0.0
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Tomo Yamaoka
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2009.05.10 12:08:00 -
[46]
I finally encountered this for the first time the other night and I have to say, it doesn't make sense that someone in an enemy militia can dock and undock from an FDU station at will...wouldn't the FDU impound the ship? Open all guns on it, launch a ridiculous number of ships to destroy it as soon as it it approached or undocked? Seems stupid to allow that at all, and thats what I'm seeing is a WT battleship playing station games in high sec at a FDU station with a neutral RR buddy in tow.
I'd call it a broken mechanic that definately verges on exploit.
Agent Provocateur of the FIO
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Naradius
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.11 09:42:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Naradius on 11/05/2009 09:53:42
At the end of the day, ABP know what they are doing and use what they have to good effect (read: they know their stuff).
I'm amazed that people whine, instead of learning and adapting...the time it's taken some people to moan on here about RR alts etc, they could have spent coming up with an effective solution that would have made them better players. Instead people would rather moan in the hope that CCP will save them from growing some balls...and/or some initiative for that matter as well.
BTW, I speak from experience, having been on the wrong end of a ABP Neutron Blaster or two, but I like to think I came away from it a better player.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Silvitni
Cheese anyone?
It¦s really not about game mechanics.
It¦s about adapting. There is a solution to every problem.
Not surprised with this statement from someone who can't travel more than two feet without his neutral rr alt.
As many people have mentioned, this is just one of those things we have to adapt to at the moment. But I have seen this done before, where raiding parties use neuts to back them up. For a while, it works, as people get surprised by the alts (and this is one of the issues), as I was recently. However, people learn, and the kills start dropping off as everyone in the area knows to either attack in a co-ordinated fleet, or leave well alone.
That said, it is perplexing why this has not been changed, as it does not make much sense from an internal game logic point of view. It is regarded as cheating, and I don't know anyone who could argue that this mechanic is anything other than 'using an unfair advantage'. People do argue that EVE is a game famous for being harsh. That may be true, but you can't let a game become too unfair because they would lose subscribers. In the majority of the game, the consistency is harsh, but fair. This is one of those instances that crosses over the line. It may be difficult to define where that fine line between acceptable and unacceptable lies, but you cannot ignore it.
Neutral repping should flag the offender up as a legitimate war target for a limited time period (maybe until the following downtime), which should resolve the old docking games, and stop people from using them as a 'no risk booster'. Until then, it's simply something we have to deal with. Personally, I think the best way is to attack only when you have enough combined DPS to break his tank several times over, or simply avoid them. If they don't get the kills, they abandon the tactic.
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Dave Tehsulei
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.05.12 01:05:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ratchman
It is regarded as cheating, and I don't know anyone who could argue that this mechanic is anything other than 'using an unfair advantage'.
Just because you think it or even write it down for all to see doesn't make it true
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Forum | Website |
Droog 1
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Posted - 2009.05.12 12:08:00 -
[50]
Don't engage ABP. If you don't like the way they play the game don't play into their hands. |
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SmugBaldy
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.12 17:23:00 -
[51]
If neutrals assist an enemy during battle, they should be flashing red to your fleet. It isn't cheating since the game mechanics allow it. Looks more like a bug to me.
It's hard to think when you're not used to it. |
Lt Mooncat
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:40:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Veebora
Originally by: Pride NL
As soon as the repped person attacks the repper wil be flagged. It is intended game mechanics.
As far as the GM's are concerned anyway. Just ignore and proceed. People that get killed by this tactic are plain stupid.
You are wrong, it doesn't happens in FW.
What happens if the Gallente Player Corps issue a War Dec against the Caldari Corps who use this tactic. That might change the way Aggression is handled. Just a thought. |
Carapace Cassius
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:34:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
I try to stay out of Dodixie (except for the odd war target I need to follow). It's turning into a mini-Jita.
As a relative newbie to the game, I find this comment a bit funny; from my perspective, Dodixie has always been what people told me Jita was about, just a tad less full. First time I've flown there (Jita) I was severely disappointed - "what, I've endured 15 jumps just to bump into Dodixie on steroids"? Not even the prices made it worth it, at least not for the things I was going for. Competition in Dodixie has brought those prices (again, at least for those modules I was looking for) very close to what I've seen in Jita.
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Murashu
Agony's End
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Posted - 2009.05.13 20:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Carapace Cassius
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
I try to stay out of Dodixie (except for the odd war target I need to follow). It's turning into a mini-Jita.
As a relative newbie to the game, I find this comment a bit funny; from my perspective, Dodixie has always been what people told me Jita was about, just a tad less full. First time I've flown there (Jita) I was severely disappointed - "what, I've endured 15 jumps just to bump into Dodixie on steroids"? Not even the prices made it worth it, at least not for the things I was going for. Competition in Dodixie has brought those prices (again, at least for those modules I was looking for) very close to what I've seen in Jita.
I find Dodixie to have the same or better prices than Jita on most of the modules I purchase. I normally buy enough modules to fit 5-10 ships so I shop around for the best price at the time. I'll fly to Jita then use two alts or friends to price check in Dodixie/Ours and you would be surprised at all the good deals that can be found around Dodixie.
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Murashu
Agony's End |
Kat Bandeis
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.13 21:43:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Johnny Gurkha
It's the first time I've had this "tactic" used on me... I don't mind losing ships - risk/reward and all that 
tbh if you use these tactics your no better than a lamer with a Falcon alt. Nuff said really...
Or a lamer that gate-camps? Or a lamer that uses a four or five 'geddons to jump a cruiser outside a station?
That kind of lamer?
Sounds like whiney failsauce to me....
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.05.13 22:42:00 -
[56]
The biggest gripe about neutral RR, is the fact it causes no aggression, giving absolutely no risk to the remote repper themselves, in high-sec for instance, the reppT(?) can just dock up the second he begins taking fire, in small-gang combat, this can be critical when you're diverting dps elsewhere.
To be honest, it isn't that big of a deal, but it is an absolute pain knowing the target can easily just get away. It is less of an issue I think in low-sec, as I never see them there, but in high-sec wars it is a right pain.
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Kat Bandeis
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 03:19:00 -
[57]
Of course there's a solution: suicide hit. Have a ship kill the repper before CONCORDokken. Like others have said, PVP = risk. Sometime you have to take one for the team. :)
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Garramon
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:36:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kat Bandeis
Of course there's a solution: suicide hit. Have a ship kill the repper before CONCORDokken. Like others have said, PVP = risk. Sometime you have to take one for the team. :)
And how do you propose suiciding a T2 resists tanked ship with tiny sig radius that can just dock if it ever feels threatened? |
Trellish
The Perfect Storm
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.05.14 15:04:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Trellish on 14/05/2009 15:18:54
To be honest... that doesn't work and the situation does represent a problem.
The neutral rep situation is a double whammy.
In terms of general context, this creates a circumstance where it is impossible to have an idea what forces you are facing. It's easily possible within the current parameters to have sufficient remote reppers as to make you impossible to kill, and' with literally no way for the opposite party to have any idea of what the opposing forces are. If you have to start looking at EVERYONE in local as being prepared to defend the opposing target, then there's going to be a lot less PVP. (as indeed, we see occurring)
You've just engaged a target, who then brings out a remote rep alt/ally who you have no possible way of knowing exists in the current mechanics. Let's look at the available options to the opposing party.
Option 1: You can leave the battle (presuming you don't have a point on your ship now... which is a little unlikely)
Option 2: You can ignore the remote repper and continue to target the primary enemy.
This is less than ideal, because obviously it's just not likely that you're going to be able to win this fight. Don't think I need to explain why.
Option 3: You can begin to fire on the remote repper.
While you've a good chance of killing the remote repper (if there's just one), there are some problems here. First off, you're not shooting at your actual target though they are still shooting at you. Meanwhile they are being repped back up to baseline. Secondly, if/when you shoot at or kill the remote repper, he now has the ability to come back out in a ship and join the fight with a PVP ship... additionally he can come out knowing what type of damage you are doing, what kind of ship you are flying, basically with a pre-awareness of the needed tactics. All the first guy has to do is live long enough for the original repper to get back out there, and you are most likely screwed.
I guess basically the complaint is, that neutral remote reps represents a mechanic whereby it is impossible to control a fight in the ways that it seems the designers intended us to have control. It is literally impossible to keep a fight one v one. Nothing stops both sides from having enough remote reps to make each ship literally unkillable. Doesn't that seem to represent a broken game mechanic to everyone else? Don't get me wrong... it's the way the game is set up now, and I'm not going to argue over the "morality" of using an existing game mechanic... even when it's been used on me, but I do think that while it does exist, that it's a "broken" mechanic.
Certainly there's no question that this mechanic is used to trap people all the time into fights where there is literally no chance of one of the ships winning and where they cannot possibly estimate the number of ships that will be involved in the fight. End result? Less PVP. More people declining fights because there's now way to guess how many are going to be involved.
Less PVP = Fail... at least imo 
At least at the moment, there are only 2 real solutions.
1 have your own neutral rep alts/allies... (falcon alts anyone?)
2 avoid the entire mechanic by not accepting that sort of fight and by avoiding empire fights.
I know that a LOT of people I've flown with both in empire and out of it are going with option number 2. Not because of morality concerns, or lack of PVP attitudes, but simply because it's not a good mechanic to have to deal with and there's other options available that work a lot better.
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