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prefectro
Minmatar Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.24 06:52:00 -
[1]
I have been playing since 2005 and I have never seen CCP so active in getting feedback from us then in the past couple months (especially with the last patch). Before my very eyes I see them change the OP to reflect remarks from players. So what changed? What is this sudden care about what players think? Is it the whole Agile craze where customer involvement is actually considered a GOOD thing? Whatever the reason, I love it (though you could give a little more attention to some of the glaring Minmatar issues that have existed for years).
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Halycon Gamma
Caldari The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.24 07:13:00 -
[2]
Someone in customer service decided that if CCP asks for feedback from the entire cross section of Eve Players.. that probability says one of us will give ideas that is somewhere in line with what CCP is thinking.
What that means is that whenever CCP wants to make a change, they can simply throw up an "Input Wanted Thread", then go ahead and do whatever it is they want. Whenever we whine, which we will, they can rightly point out "We only did what you wanted!".
To be honest, I don't particularly think thats completely true. But neither do I think its completely false.
Another reason is the Many Eyes Theory. While CCP is a relatively large company for only having a single MMO under its belt. Not all of those people are going to be able to think of everything. But, if you toss enough people at it, the answer to any one problem is going to be rather obvious to someone. Other issues may not be obvious to that person, but the issue at hand may be. So if you toss a problem at a large enough group of people. Someone is going to have the answer. Its just a matter of asking enough people, and then going over all the answers until you find "The One".
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.04.24 07:55:00 -
[3]
Brainstorming has always been a very effective way of gathering information. The tricky part is sifting through it all afterwards and collating it into something useful.
Personal Query: What is the Agile craze? Don't tell me some moron put a lame name on something that has been practised by politicians and other demagogues for millennia .. involving people to foster an emotional attachment making them more "pliable".
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Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
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Posted - 2009.04.24 09:39:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jack Icegaard on 24/04/2009 09:40:20
Originally by: prefectro I have been playing since 2005 and I have never seen CCP so active in getting feedback from us then in the past couple months (especially with the last patch). Before my very eyes I see them change the OP to reflect remarks from players. So what changed? What is this sudden care about what players think? Is it the whole Agile craze where customer involvement is actually considered a GOOD thing? Whatever the reason, I love it (though you could give a little more attention to some of the glaring Minmatar issues that have existed for years).
Maybe its a part of a business strategy to hit the mainstream market in full force. When it happens, they will most likely lose my subscriptions. They will not regret that though, as a mainstream game means very good profit so i cant really blame them.
I tried EVE because i though it was a fascinating persistent world and i still like it. I think fascinating games typically emerges from a vision of a small design group. When they reach a certain level of success, influences from economic people starts to dominate and things get blurred down. The rub is that if you want to be successful on the mainstream market, an average player must be able to get the gist of the game within the first few minutes of gameplay. That means severe limitations on depth of game mechanics.
Of course its good to listen to ideas and concerns of their playerbase. But i don't believe in asking the playerbase about balancing issues etc. Better to use a beta-test group that you know understands the core vision of the game.
my 2c
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.04.25 12:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ariane VoxDei on 25/04/2009 12:34:23
Originally by: prefectro Is it the whole Agile craze where customer involvement is actually considered a GOOD thing? Whatever the reason, I love it (though you could give a little more attention to some of the glaring Minmatar issues that have existed for years).
Personally not all that happy about it. You see, it also generates a lot of whiny posts and makes this part of the forum get a load of stuff that should really be in the Features and Ideas section. But since you won't catch dev there (for very good reasons), they now come here in a mad rush to get dev attention. TBH it is like watching the "blue craze" on the wow forums, before I quit that game.
You, yourself, also jumped on the wagon by 'hijacking' your own post by bringing in a shameless "boost mah minny ships and guns" bit at the end. You posed a interesting question about Dev--Player interaction, but totally killed any chance of it being taken seriously, when you tacked on that bit.
1) start something that might bait a devs interest 2) jack in your own agenda 3) hope for profit. 4) realize it backfires as devs stop responding outside the stickies and leave it to forum moderators to single out the posts they should take the time to read.
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lecrotta
Minmatar lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.25 14:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Halycon Gamma Someone in customer service decided that if CCP asks for feedback from the entire cross section of Eve Players.. that probability says one of us will give ideas that is somewhere in line with what CCP is thinking.
What that means is that whenever CCP wants to make a change, they can simply throw up an "Input Wanted Thread", then go ahead and do whatever it is they want. Whenever we whine, which we will, they can rightly point out "We only did what you wanted!".
To be honest, I don't particularly think thats completely true. But neither do I think its completely false.
Its close enough, although CCP is in a unique posistion compared to other MMO games for a few very interesrting reasons.
1. Unlike WOW ect a EVE player can never max out in ALL races and ships/mods, and certainly not within just a few weeks/months.
2. Because of this a lot of older players keep their monthly payments going even if they are taking several months off from the game and only login to switch skills.
Lets face it trashing a 5-6 year old toon with 80mil SP when you can continue training it for a few euro a month even when you are not playing the game has gotta be hard.
3. This means that CCP rarely needs to keep its older players happy but can focus on gaining new players and keeping them happy until they are well and truly "hooked" on EVE's "endless skill training opiate"..
Originally by: Halycon Gamma Not all of those people are going to be able to think of everything. But, if you toss enough people at it, the answer to any one problem is going to be rather obvious to someone. Other issues may not be obvious to that person, but the issue at hand may be. So if you toss a problem at a large enough group of people. Someone is going to have the answer.
OMG these sound like a familiar concepts...
How about this for a new intro to eve:
WE ARE CCP YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED EXISTANCE AS YOU KNOW IT IS OVER WE WILL ADD YOU BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVNESS TO OUR OWN RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.
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Hlidskjalf
Novus Aevum Transport and Industries Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2009.04.25 14:51:00 -
[7]
Theres a simple answer to this.
50,000+ heads are better than 1. - - - - - - - - - What could possibly make me walk into your gate camp to get to low sec, unless my Retriever has a doomsday device on it...
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.04.25 14:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hlidskjalf Theres a simple answer to this.
50,000+ heads are better than 1.
Then why are they ignoring the top 9 or so issues these 50k ppl mentioned and focusing on one WAY down the list?.
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prefectro
Minmatar Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.25 15:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Personal Query: What is the Agile craze?
Agile is a type of development that focuses on heavy user involvement and the builds (into a UAT environment) being released frequently (as this replaces detailed requirements).
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prefectro
Minmatar Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.25 15:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Hlidskjalf Theres a simple answer to this.
50,000+ heads are better than 1.
Then why are they ignoring the top 9 or so issues these 50k ppl mentioned and focusing on one WAY down the list?.
That does annoy somewhat, but if you look at the bigger picture I have also seen them take ideas from people. With the OP being constantly updated based on feedback. This is more then just cherry picking what they want to hear. In saying that CCP does seem to still have some bias against certain areas that no amount of whining will ever change.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.25 16:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hlidskjalf Theres a simple answer to this.
50,000+ heads are better than 1.
Only if you are Borg. If not, 50.000 heads are a plain dumb mob demonstrating and crying in the city hall. Even in serioz indornetz spaceships businezz...
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.04.25 20:27:00 -
[12]
rarely experienced such a lacking handling of bugs (reports)
and ccp has asked for opinions before. and then there's ofc the CSM. doesnt mean they actually listen to any of it. just feel-good things that bring positive headlines. the bad headlines is where it's at - see boot.ini ^^ - putting the gist back into logistics |
Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.04.25 21:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hlidskjalf Theres a simple answer to this.
50,000+ heads are better than 1.
We have a poster at work that says "Teamwork: None of us is as dumb as all of us".
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.04.26 03:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ecky X
Originally by: Hlidskjalf Theres a simple answer to this.
50,000+ heads are better than 1.
We have a poster at work that says "Teamwork: None of us is as dumb as all of us".
Probably a PC rephrasing of: "the IQ of a mob is equal to that of it's lowest member divided by it's number of members."
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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