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Major Reach
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.24 04:45:00 -
[1]
Hi,
Thought I'd drop a post into Hictor mechanics in low sec. I like to consider myself as a rather experienced Phobos pilot and being -10, spend most of my time in said ship flying around low sec. The issue I'd like to bring up is that of the warp disruption field generator. As I'm sure all of you are well aware, bubbles can not be deployed in low sec and the use of a focused warp disruption script is necessary. This offers a 28km infinite point.
The issue that I'm attempting to bring up is that of it's lack of versatility and general need. Yes the infinipoint is extremely valuable for catching those stabbed ships but that alone isn't worth the price tag and doesn't warrant using them purely incase that rare stabbed ship comes in.
As far as it stands overheated warp disrupters can reach the 28km range effectively making the disrupt range on the hictor nothing out of the ordinary. The only thing going for the Hictor as far as low sec stands is it's ability to negate stabs, which in my opinion is not enough.
I suggest to really bring the fear out of seeing a hictor on the other side of that low sec gate you just jumped into an idea. The hictor pilot, when using the focused warp disruption should have the targets microwarp drive knocked out.
If a warp scrambler knocks out an mwd a focused disrupt should do the same thing, If it has the ability to negate stabs completely it should have that power within it to disable the mwd. I suggest either implementing a new script under the name of 'focused warp scrambler.' A 14km infinipoint which completely disables an mwd. That or just the flat out bonus to a focused warp disrupt of mwd negation. I also strongly believe these points should be over-heatable when in focused form so they truly stand out from ordinary disrupt/scramblers.
Would appreciate your guys views on the topic. Cheers.
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Hitman Mk5
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Posted - 2009.04.24 04:58:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Hitman Mk5 on 24/04/2009 04:58:45 I can totally see ur point and I totally agree CCP should make this idea happen
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Samus Arkain
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Posted - 2009.04.24 04:59:00 -
[3]
The Major has a point, it makes a lot of sense and I fully back the concept. However, there are many things that could "tweak" this game, and while I do agree the Major's point a valid addendium to the list, I also feel as if CCP is trying their best towards getting the game as fine tuned as possible. All in all, I support the Major 100%, but I don't fault CCP for the lack of this idea already being implemented or existing. If any of that makes sense, as it is the crack of dawn out here.
Sea.
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Glodde
The Bear Lodge Gemini Federation
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Posted - 2009.04.24 04:59:00 -
[4]
i completely agree for the need of knocking out mwd and putting the fear in people
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Gilbert T
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.04.24 05:45:00 -
[5]
Yeah, it should do that. Even without the MWD they could probably get away, especially with an AB, but yeah.
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Protos Prime
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Posted - 2009.04.24 05:48:00 -
[6]
I think this is a great idea. It would make up for them nurfing the falcon so much...
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Manthoss
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Posted - 2009.04.24 05:48:00 -
[7]
Very cool idea. Any thoughts CCP?
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Terra Mikael
SRIUS BISNIS
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Posted - 2009.04.24 05:55:00 -
[8]
To be honest, it would be kinda pointless - a big oh-ah on paper and never used as often as people think. something like the speed nerf's scramble/disruptor change.
That being said, sure, why the hell not? ________________________________
Originally by: Lone Gunman Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would |
poggly's child
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Posted - 2009.04.24 06:03:00 -
[9]
yea this would be a fantastic idea for low sec and 0.0.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.24 06:23:00 -
[10]
"My ship is costly so it should be invincible".
You want a buff to your ship, so what are you willing to exchange for that?
The HIC were created to catch capital ships and to survive long enough under capital ship fire plus gate guns and they have made warp stabbed ships almost useless.
Note that you now don't see warp stabbed ships simply because the HIC exists. The knowledge that even 6 warp stabbers will not protect you is a valid reason not to put them in. But you want to make another counter, speed useless as well with the same ship.
You want them to be a all purpose catch all.
No way you will get that free.
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2009.04.24 06:43:00 -
[11]
Moved to "Features & Ideas Discussion" channel.
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Gilbert T
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.04.24 07:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
(snip) Note that you now don't see warp stabbed ships simply because the HIC exists. The knowledge that even 6 warp stabbers will not protect you is a valid reason not to put them in. But you want to make another counter, speed useless as well with the same ship.
You want them to be a all purpose catch all.
I don't really think that's it. The scramblers now disable MWD so why not the focused warp disruption? As far as "making speed useless" goes, the drawback on the warp disruption field generators makes the use of a MWD/AB on a HIC pointless anyway, so anything fairly fast or with an AB will still be able to get outside the 35km and warp away. That is, of course, assuming that it can "tank" the fairly low damage inflicted by the HIC. OTOH, maybe the introduction of a new script would be more appropriate. Something like a "Focused Warp Scrambling" script that balances things out a bit more.
Disables MWD and warp on target, doubles the MWD/AB penalty, 50% range (so like 17.5km?).
That would be almost double the range on a Warp Scrambler II, but would make it quite a bit more difficult to keep the ship in range, especially if it had an AB.
Just a thought...
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Major Reach
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.24 07:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Venkul Mul "My ship is costly so it should be invincible".
The ship is costly so it needs some relevant use in low sec, as far as it goes now, the only place they are implemented to their full potential is 0.0. CCP obviosuly wanted them to be used in low sec hence the introduction of the focused warp disruption script. I'm simply saying that the low sec use is flawed and needs some work.
Quote:
You want a buff to your ship, so what are you willing to exchange for that?
It's a needed and probably more relevant, logical buff. A player shouldn't be expected to exchange something for a useful ship.
Quote:
The HIC were created to catch capital ships and to survive long enough under capital ship fire plus gate guns and they have made warp stabbed ships almost useless.
Note that you now don't see warp stabbed ships simply because the HIC exists. The knowledge that even 6 warp stabbers will not protect you is a valid reason not to put them in. But you want to make another counter, speed useless as well with the same ship.
You want them to be a all purpose catch all.
No way you will get that free.
I'm not debating their current uses concerning capitals and warp crore stabs. So far gate camping in low sec is getting harder and harder with the recent nerfs. When using a dedicated tackling ship like the hictor is it really too much to ask for the ship to actually be able to do it's job effectively?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.04.24 08:06:00 -
[14]
You conveniently neglected to mention the second most valuable thing about the Warp Disruption Field Generator (WDFG), it is a high slot module. The value of that alone makes it more than worth it.
They were designed to counter capital ships, the fact that faster more nimble ships can escape should not come as a surprise.
Using the current script does not hinder the HIC's use of MWD so there is nothing preventing you from closing range and using a scrambler to kill the targets MWD (faction scrams reach about 14km overheated).
Adding the ability to shut down MWD with the WDFG would make the HIC's the Swiss Army knives of tackling which would further limit the usefulness of its more fragile cousins.
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Tob Seayours
Minmatar Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.04.24 08:15:00 -
[15]
Just get a faction scram and be happy you can use HIC's at all in low-sec.
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Major Reach
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.24 08:17:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Major Reach on 24/04/2009 08:17:25
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida You conveniently neglected to mention the second most valuable thing about the Warp Disruption Field Generator (WDFG), it is a high slot module. The value of that alone makes it more than worth it.
They were designed to counter capital ships, the fact that faster more nimble ships can escape should not come as a surprise.
Using the current script does not hinder the HIC's use of MWD so there is nothing preventing you from closing range and using a scrambler to kill the targets MWD (faction scrams reach about 14km overheated).
Adding the ability to shut down MWD with the WDFG would make the HIC's the Swiss Army knives of tackling which would further limit the usefulness of its more fragile cousins.
The thing is though when in low sec the hictor isn't doing anything that a regular ship with a disrupter and tank can't do. The current pricing of Hictors does not justify the only useful thing it does of neutralising stabs. It needs to do more to really provide a usefull-ness in low sec.
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Magnar Galen
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Posted - 2009.04.24 08:55:00 -
[17]
I support the idea 100%. In the spirit of balance CCP could maybe limit the script usage to systems with sec equal to or less than 0.3
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Jaina Proudmoar
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.04.24 11:42:00 -
[18]
Good idea.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.04.24 12:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Major Reach The thing is though when in low sec the hictor isn't doing anything that a regular ship with a disrupter and tank can't do.
Except tackling capitals. While I am not thoroughly against the idea, I don't see that as a priority. HICs are doing exactly what they were designed for, and anything more is just an added bonus.
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Yarik Mendel
Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.24 12:43:00 -
[20]
Very nice and logical!
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Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.04.24 13:10:00 -
[21]
HICs already work as intended, imo. No need to make them even more powerful.
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Abuta Beki
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Posted - 2009.04.24 13:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Major Reach The ship is costly so it needs some relevant use in low sec, as far as it goes now, the only place they are implemented to their full potential is 0.0.
That makes no sense.
My Orca is costly and most useful in highsec and lowsec. Where is it's relevant use in 0.0? A Dreadnought is costly and... wait. No use at all in highsec.
Some things are just not awesome everywhere.
You mostly gank noobs with camp blobs anyway. How can that be difficult enough to require even more powerful tools to do so?
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Major Reach
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.24 13:22:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Major Reach on 24/04/2009 13:24:24
Originally by: Abuta Beki
Originally by: Major Reach The ship is costly so it needs some relevant use in low sec, as far as it goes now, the only place they are implemented to their full potential is 0.0.
That makes no sense.
My Orca is costly and most useful in highsec and lowsec. Where is it's relevant use in 0.0? A Dreadnought is costly and... wait. No use at all in highsec.
Some things are just not awesome everywhere.
CCP have tried to make them usefull in low sec with the warp disruption script. Just not usefull enough to actually be worth flying. I'm just proposing a fix to make them a ship worth having around in low sec.
What doesn't make sence about that?
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Hitman Mk5
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Posted - 2009.04.24 13:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tob Seayours Just get a faction scram and be happy you can use HIC's at all in low-sec.
wth u shouldnt have to faction fit any ship to make it do the job it is intended to do the idea here works without having to spend (insert 100 million ammount here) unless someone would rather spend that ammount
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Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.04.24 13:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hitman Mk5
Originally by: Tob Seayours Just get a faction scram and be happy you can use HIC's at all in low-sec.
wth u shouldnt have to faction fit any ship to make it do the job it is intended to do the idea here works without having to spend (insert 100 million ammount here) unless someone would rather spend that ammount
It already does the job for which it was intended. If you want to make it do an additional job, it looks like you'll need to pay through the nose for it.
Anyway, the hictor is NOT meant to be a 'catch any enemy' ship. Its meant as a HEAVY interdictor (eg, it interdicts on heavy ships).
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Major Reach
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.24 13:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sturdy Girl
Originally by: Hitman Mk5
Originally by: Tob Seayours Just get a faction scram and be happy you can use HIC's at all in low-sec.
wth u shouldnt have to faction fit any ship to make it do the job it is intended to do the idea here works without having to spend (insert 100 million ammount here) unless someone would rather spend that ammount
It already does the job for which it was intended. If you want to make it do an additional job, it looks like you'll need to pay through the nose for it.
Anyway, the hictor is NOT meant to be a 'catch any enemy' ship. Its meant as a HEAVY interdictor (eg, it interdicts on heavy ships).
I do not want it to do an additional job. Just the job it was intended for, reasonably well. An inifni point scrambler with a 14km range isn't game changing but will give the hictors a much needed low sec boost to actually get them being used.
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Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.04.24 13:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Major Reach
I do not want it to do an additional job. Just the job it was intended for, reasonably well. An inifni point scrambler with a 14km range isn't game changing but will give the hictors a much needed low sec boost to actually get them being used.
I disagree with your view of the ship, but thats just my opinion.
Putting that asside, however, assuming this change would make the ship more useful in losec, do we even really WANT that to happen?
The increased use of hictors in losec would probably mean a decreased player population; hictors tend to scare the **** out of carebears enough already, and its difficult enough to get people out of hisec. This would increase their risk, without any reward.
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CJ 1
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Posted - 2009.04.24 14:01:00 -
[28]
I agree with Major,
HICs are designed to be the ultimate tackling ship. Very little ships (apart from if you get a high end capital ship in low sec require the phobos and infinite point to tackle). That said an Arazu/Lachesis can do a better job of tackling with the only down side of having a weaker tank, in terms of being able to fit a warp scram and stop MWD or by fitting numerous Disruptor points and having a longer range then the HIC.
The HICs have already shown there willingness to be able to operate in low sec much over the ability of their smaller brother the interdictor.
It would I think be beneficial to see this taken further and the tackle on a phobos expanded to allow it to be able to de-activate a MWD much in the way that a standard warp scrambler does.
CJ
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.04.24 14:03:00 -
[29]
Such an mwd-neutralizer script would be overpowered if equipped with alle the effects from the Focused Warp Disruptor script. Instead, all penalties should be active, like it is without the FWD script.
That would give you some choices: A) Use that shiny 16km mwd-neutralizer script, but loose your speed, range and sig radius advantage. B) Use a traditional warp scrambler, keep your speed but sacrify a mid slot for that. This is what you can do allready - go and buy a warp scrambler. C) Just use the FWD script alone and keep your speed and the mid slot, and let someone else deal with the MWD of your victim. That's allready implemented too.
An imperfect virtual world is what causes fun. Make the world too perfect and everybody gets bored. So, if ccp gives us that anti-mwd-script someday, then it should have enough drawbacks which hurt whenever it is used.
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OldTymeHockey
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Posted - 2009.04.24 14:08:00 -
[30]
AGREED!!!!!! even an industrialist carebear like me can see the sense in that posting but, can we carebears get a fitting that makes our haulers go faster, like an inverted webber :p
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