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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.28 20:56:00 -
[91]
plz fix it so i dont have train amarr bs v and all the extra gunnery stuff |
DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:11:00 -
[92]
The key point you all seem to be missing is that such weapon systems don't scale for dreads in the same way they don't scale for Battleships. Drones and Missiles are useless in large fights, no matter the ship type.
You wouldn't say the Megathron is competitive with the Apocalypse in a fleet battle because it has drones. It's competitive because of tracking, range and damage.
Tracking is irrelevant period.
Range is irrelevant because you'd need your whole fleet flying Moroses to take advantage of the ranges where a Revelation can't touch you. That doesn't work for the same reason you don't get all-Rokh fleets sniping at 230km. If you warp in that far, you render your own non-Moros dreads useless and it would have to be a ridiculously large fight where the DPS from dual 1000km railguns with crap ammo can break the tank of enemy ships in a timely manner. You'd likely lose your HICs and Dictors and they'd jump out before you got them hurting bad.
So then it comes down to damage.
88 dps per dual 1000mm railgun 109 dps per dual giga beam
24% advantage that scales identically since both have the same hardpoints and fittings.
For the guns to be at parity, the Revelation pilot has to use crystals that are two levels above what the Moros pilot is using. The beams have about 20% less range, so all in all, the Revelation is better at under 100km (75km optimal plus 32km falloff) with Xray XL than Moros ever will be with guns alone.
Factor in the higher armor hp and possibly better resists, or the ease of use that crystals have over charges and the Revelation is easily the best dread for large slugfests. It certainly was when I flew it.
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Incantare
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:14:00 -
[93]
Fix the Nag, even if it means scrapping the split weapon system. But make sure you give citadels a long hard look. |
Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:36:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Odhinn Vinlandii Missile Launchers are not guns, they are absolutely contrary to the Minmatar credo of '...more guns.'
Minmatar should be armor tanked and turrets only. ..why would flying chunks of metal shooting rocket propelled large chunks of metal have shields anyways?
Eliminate all split weapon systems, make Minmatar all turrets. Even the stealth bomber, allow the Hound to strap on 1400mm artillery instead.
Yes, let's just remove shield tanking from the game. Amarr should armor tank, Galletne should armor tank, Minmatar should armor tank, and Caldari should plate and hope the others bring remote reps.
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Nova Soldier
Caldari ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.04.28 22:55:00 -
[95]
Originally by: CCP Abathur CCP Chronotis spent a good part of today looking into the 'Naglrofl'. The results should bring the ship back into line with its counterparts. I'll point him here tomorrow.
First: I just found a name for my dread 'Naglrofl'!!! Second The day has passed, where is CCP Chronotis???
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Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.04.28 23:05:00 -
[96]
Naglmao is a much better name, because you can say "Naglmyassoff".
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Professor Dumbledore
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:06:00 -
[97]
Originally by: CCP Abathur As many of you have noticed, now that Apocrypha is out we're starting to look at several issues such as this one. I've seen several threads about this particular problem suggesting things such as "give the ship additional turrets". Such a thing is simply not possible as the ship model only has locators for two turrets.
CCP Chronotis spent a good part of today looking into the 'Naglrofl'. The results should bring the ship back into line with its counterparts. I'll point him here tomorrow.
IF you did anything but make it a single weapon system and tanking system you did it wrong and go back and do it again you stupid lazy ****s.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:26:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore
Originally by: CCP Abathur As many of you have noticed, now that Apocrypha is out we're starting to look at several issues such as this one. I've seen several threads about this particular problem suggesting things such as "give the ship additional turrets". Such a thing is simply not possible as the ship model only has locators for two turrets.
CCP Chronotis spent a good part of today looking into the 'Naglrofl'. The results should bring the ship back into line with its counterparts. I'll point him here tomorrow.
IF you did anything but make it a single weapon system and tanking system you did it wrong and go back and do it again you stupid lazy ****s.
Well there is one thing about the new owners of Delve we won't have to worry about it seems. I'm fairly sure the devs would rather emigrate to ethiopia and sell emaciated camels than give the goons any special treatment. Way to go Goonies!
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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TimGascoigne
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:16:00 -
[99]
Edited by: TimGascoigne on 29/04/2009 01:16:37
Originally by: CCP Abathur As many of you have noticed, now that Apocrypha is out we're starting to look at several issues such as this one. I've seen several threads about this particular problem suggesting things such as "give the ship additional turrets". Such a thing is simply not possible as the ship model only has locators for two turrets.
CCP Chronotis spent a good part of today looking into the 'Naglrofl'. The results should bring the ship back into line with its counterparts. I'll point him here tomorrow.
this is not an acceptable excuse for not changing the design of the naglfail so that additional turret hard points can be mounted. after all it's only pixels they shouldn't be too hard to shift. I am sure the in-house artists will have a great time modifying the naglfar and all of its vertical glory
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Drahkar
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Posted - 2009.04.29 03:23:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Drahkar on 29/04/2009 03:25:47 You guys have it all wrong.
The only needed fix for the Naglfar is to resotre it to its pre-nanonerf glory.
Behold, the F@glfar
Gah, somehow the link doesn't work for me at the moment but basically it's a full speed implants nanofit Naglmao with 1390m/s when overheating its officier MWD. I'd love to kite a cruiser in that thing. |
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Thalene
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Posted - 2009.04.29 03:39:00 -
[101]
Players have been crying out for a nag fix for years. I'm glad there's finally a dev answer but how much longer will we have to wait for a fix? It's been way too long already.
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BurntCornMuffin
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.29 04:04:00 -
[102]
The Naglfar really does need to lose the split slots, though. As it is, you can A. Shield tank and fit damage mods, which means you need to fit Co-Processors to fit shield gear, put both Gyrostabilizers and Ballistic Controls in your lows, end up with a tank weaker than a phoenix anyway, have no room for cap rechargers and still put out subpar DPS. Or you can B. Armor tank, which gives a decent tank, but you'll have no damage mods and thus do terrible DPS.
All that after training Capital Armor, Capital Shield, Capital Projectile, and Capital Missile skills. I get that CCP wanted Minmatar to be the "versatile" race, but split slot bonuses don't grant versatility, all they do is cripple the ships that have them.
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Nikita Alterana
Gallente Infinity Enterprises Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 04:15:00 -
[103]
How to make the Naglfar Better and make it ACTUALLY Versatile: Give the nag a large enough damage bonus to both its weapon systems that it doesn't need to waste its low slots on damage mods. This means the ship can be fit two ways, fitting the lows with damage mods, turning the ship into a glass cannon, doing more damage then other dreads; or fitting it with a tank so it does slightly less damage then other dreads, but tanks just as well as them. __________________________________________________ I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it! I'm also training Minmatar Capitals! And I eat Lions! |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.29 04:47:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana How to make the Naglfar Better and make it ACTUALLY Versatile: Give the nag a large enough damage bonus to both its weapon systems that it doesn't need to waste its low slots on damage mods. This means the ship can be fit two ways, fitting the lows with damage mods, turning the ship into a glass cannon, doing more damage then other dreads; or fitting it with a tank so it does slightly less damage then other dreads, but tanks just as well as them.
This would go well with the Niddys remote repper bonus. In one fell swoop a Niddy~Nag combo would be a force to contend with.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Osant
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Posted - 2009.04.29 05:31:00 -
[105]
/me waiting for CCP Chronotos
IMO 1. Give bonuses from one gyro and one BC (both T2) but remove one low slot. 2. Give one additional low slot. 3*. Give +500% to citadel torpedoes speed
I don't think that high slots could be changed for Nagly, always 2+2+1
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dankness420
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Posted - 2009.04.29 06:01:00 -
[106]
what really needs a buff is
1. give the nag enough cpu to fit a full t2 shield tank 2. buff both XL artys and citadel torps 3. increase the bonuses on the nag
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Gespenst Jager
Pumpkin Scissors Bright Side of Death
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Posted - 2009.04.29 07:40:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Gespenst Jager on 29/04/2009 07:44:16 Naglfar
Highs: 5 Mids: 4 Lows: 7 (armor-tank is better then shield tank - it affected by slave set and dont have problem with capacitor) Launcher slots: 2 Turret slots: 2 Bonuses: 10% to capital projectile RoF, 10% to citadel torp RoF, 100% to citadel torpedo speed per level.
And, also, please remove Phoenix from this game completly - this is absolutly useless dread, so even if you boost it, this doesnt help. Caldari will be good enough even without its own dread, as they already learned skills on Moros
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dankness420
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Posted - 2009.04.29 07:51:00 -
[108]
ideally if they buff citadel torps, it will be all the buff that the phoenix needs
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 08:16:00 -
[109]
Uhm dudes you still hope there will be any more response from ccp? They didnt show up yesterday, they wound today, and the next balance topic will be about deep core miners damage cloud...
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RookieEG
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:16:00 -
[110]
1 simple thing open EFT. take N@glfart. Fit siege module and dual giga beams, then replace beams with quad 3500 arti compare dps with close range ammo. cry or laugh ))
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:30:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Perry Uhm dudes you still hope there will be any more response from ccp? They didnt show up yesterday, they wound today, and the next balance topic will be about deep core miners damage cloud...
Don't be so pessimistic. Maybe they next topic will be about ships. Maybe Rookie ships or Shuttles need total overhaul.
Originally by: RookieEG 1 simple thing open EFT. take N@glfart. Fit siege module and dual giga beams, then replace beams with quad 3500 arti compare dps with close range ammo. cry or laugh ))
Friend, somebody already said this somewhere in the thread.
What i should say Phoenix still have some advantages. Phoenix doesn't depend on Optimal range. And sometimes it helps. But Naglrofl is strange.
But i should say CCP wasn't totally ignoring this issue. As i remember they have written about rebalance of Capships here: http://www.eveonline.com/updates/indevelopment.asp
But they have written it in September 2008. And wanted to make Rebalance in QR.
So the only question What did take CCP so long? ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
RedSplat
RennTech
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Posted - 2009.04.29 11:25:00 -
[112]
Clocks ticking Secretly MirrorGod. Apparently
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Jeanine Brown
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:08:00 -
[113]
Don't boost Nag.
Give every dread only 2 capital weapon hardpoints. Problem solved.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:10:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Jeanine Brown Don't boost Nag.
Give every dread only 2 capital weapon hardpoints. Problem solved.
stupid idea.. will make peopel angry and sad.. CCP is an ENTRETAINMENT company.. get the conflict?
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:13:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Jeanine Brown Don't boost Nag.
Give every dread only 2 capital weapon hardpoints. Problem solved.
Lets just nerf every ship in EVE why not? ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Jeanine Brown
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:23:00 -
[116]
Well, if adding turrets is in conflict with ship models and graphics, removing them certainly will not be. Or?
And you can always compensate the 1/3 lost damage by increasing the siege mode bonus. Pilots spend less ammo, create less weapon lag.
Just saying, if adding turret graphics is not an option.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:41:00 -
[117]
There are tons of less arkward solutions.. like simply massively boostign the XL projectiles
Specially because the scaling from L projectiles to XL doe snto follow same slope as the scalign from Large lasers to XL lasers neither L hybrids to XL hybrids.
That combined to fact aht L projectiles as base already suck... dooms the whoel system....
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Professor Dumbledore
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:03:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Seishi Maru There are tons of less arkward solutions.. like simply massively boostign the XL projectiles
Specially because the scaling from L projectiles to XL doe snto follow same slope as the scalign from Large lasers to XL lasers neither L hybrids to XL hybrids.
That combined to fact aht L projectiles as base already suck... dooms the whoel system....
Yea they could very simply reduce the high slots to 3. Double the damage co-efficient on XL Arty's and your done.
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prefectro
Minmatar Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:08:00 -
[119]
Edited by: prefectro on 29/04/2009 14:13:34
Originally by: Luixia Edited by: Luixia on 28/04/2009 19:40:51
I have seen many posts on this topic and I am finally annoyed enough by it, you know why CCP doesnt care to fix it, BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. its called a different perspective and if you cant understand the function of the ship its your problem. See capitals arent a SOLO pwn machine as people think they are, maybe you should consider this, the minmitar carrier offers both armor + shield capital repair bonus, and if you setup your Nag to have full damage with a buffer tank and support it with a carrier (repair it as it comes out of seige, then reseige) its one of the most powerful pair of ships in the game. As a tank is one thing but being able to kill your opposition before they can kill you is another.
Why cant people stop being so closed minded and start being creative. instead of point out what i can not do, why not consider what i can do.
I for one (which my word problem means nothing to the ton of whiners) pentiton to keep the ship the way it is.
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT DONT FLY IT. SIMPLE!
You are dumb. The number one problem with Naglfar is it is PRIMARIED because it has one of the worst tanks and (depending on setup) has a high(er) DPS. That is why you see a fraction of Matar dreads compared to other ones on the field. There is not a setup in the world which will change the fact that any competent FC will consider you a better target. And, unlike sub capitals, you do not not have the luxury of easily warping away. Once you siege, you are a sitting duck and no setup or SP will help you survive.
And people do not like it, which is why they do not fly it. Which sucks because there is no alternate Matar choice for that class. It is not like a cruiser where if you do not like the Rapier, you can jump in a Vaga or Broadsword for the same roaming gang.
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Random Womble
Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:43:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Gespenst Jager Edited by: Gespenst Jager on 29/04/2009 07:44:16 Naglfar
Highs: 5 Mids: 4 Lows: 7 (armor-tank is better then shield tank - it affected by slave set and dont have problem with capacitor) Launcher slots: 2 Turret slots: 2 Bonuses: 10% to capital projectile RoF, 10% to citadel torp RoF, 100% to citadel torpedo speed per level.
And, also, please remove Phoenix from this game completly - this is absolutly useless dread, so even if you boost it, this doesnt help. Caldari will be good enough even without its own dread, as they already learned skills on Moros
Armor tank is only better for buffering with a slave set for active cap stable or burst tanks shield is better and TBH i like my shield nag. having it have a 4/7 slot layout just makes it either a moros missing a med slot or a revelation missing a low slot. For a start the naglfar needs its missing mid/low slot back and TBH it should be able to shield tank so 6/6 slot layout with more CPU is whats needed + changes to weapons/bonuses (which might mean CPU might not need changing). I fly a nag and have done so since 2006 with both shield and armor tank the shield tank was far more effective but was also cost silly amounts due to faction mods needed for fitting reasons.
I assume your an alt since you could barely fly the ship even if you trained for it from the start of you playing
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