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Weirda
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:18:00 -
[31]
Aren't there 'vulcan' cannon on ships too... two very high rate of fire mounted on opposite end of ship. they aim so bullets come together at a specific point and essentially creat a 'shield' of metal in the air (where the bullets are all coming together) that can be moved around and placed in front of an incoming missile?
forget where it was but saw a video... crazy looking! -- Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Weirda
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:18:00 -
[32]
Aren't there 'vulcan' cannon on ships too... two very high rate of fire mounted on opposite end of ship. they aim so bullets come together at a specific point and essentially creat a 'shield' of metal in the air (where the bullets are all coming together) that can be moved around and placed in front of an incoming missile?
forget where it was but saw a video... crazy looking! -- Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Reptar
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:27:00 -
[33]
Phalanx = Damn Fast chain gun, the last line of defense against missiles, the ~20mm Cannon on the Front is for supporting ground troops in assults in most occasions it wouldnt take down a plane
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Reptar
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:27:00 -
[34]
Phalanx = Damn Fast chain gun, the last line of defense against missiles, the ~20mm Cannon on the Front is for supporting ground troops in assults in most occasions it wouldnt take down a plane
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Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:42:00 -
[35]
Nice picture. I think Lonewulf has the right idea. Frigates are very powerful as it is, and Battleships especially have to go to rediculous lengths, sacrificing high slots and sorely needed medium slots to be able to protect themselves from frigates. Just to ensure some form of safety against one or two, you'd probably want to equip a smartbomb, some missiles that don't do enough damage for your class but you need their speed, a frigate sized gun, and a full drone bay that very soon might not be effective at all. Instead of using medium slots for your own benefit, it can take one or even two webbers just to slow frigates down enough to hit them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad frigates are good buys, and that they're so versatile. But a Battleship, the biggest and highest equipment investment you can make (save for maybe a high-end cloaking device) shouldn't have to give up such a percentage of its resources just to be able to protect itself from something a fraction of its size, cost, and power. The suggestions above are great - fast tracking large guns, or flak cannons could be expensive to build and maintain, but could be easier solutions to the problem, dealing enough damage to pose threats to drones and frigates both, maybe even the larger classes of missiles. Frigates don't really need nerfing, Battleships just need to be able to live up to their legendary descriptions and stop tripping over themselves when confronted with a few small adversaries.
combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I hits Blood Arch Templar, doing 133.7 damage. |
Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:42:00 -
[36]
Nice picture. I think Lonewulf has the right idea. Frigates are very powerful as it is, and Battleships especially have to go to rediculous lengths, sacrificing high slots and sorely needed medium slots to be able to protect themselves from frigates. Just to ensure some form of safety against one or two, you'd probably want to equip a smartbomb, some missiles that don't do enough damage for your class but you need their speed, a frigate sized gun, and a full drone bay that very soon might not be effective at all. Instead of using medium slots for your own benefit, it can take one or even two webbers just to slow frigates down enough to hit them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad frigates are good buys, and that they're so versatile. But a Battleship, the biggest and highest equipment investment you can make (save for maybe a high-end cloaking device) shouldn't have to give up such a percentage of its resources just to be able to protect itself from something a fraction of its size, cost, and power. The suggestions above are great - fast tracking large guns, or flak cannons could be expensive to build and maintain, but could be easier solutions to the problem, dealing enough damage to pose threats to drones and frigates both, maybe even the larger classes of missiles. Frigates don't really need nerfing, Battleships just need to be able to live up to their legendary descriptions and stop tripping over themselves when confronted with a few small adversaries.
combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I hits Blood Arch Templar, doing 133.7 damage. |
Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Fighterpilotjp Nice picture. I think Lonewulf has the right idea. Frigates are very powerful as it is, and Battleships especially have to go to rediculous lengths, sacrificing high slots and sorely needed medium slots to be able to protect themselves from frigates. Just to ensure some form of safety against one or two, you'd probably want to equip a smartbomb, some missiles that don't do enough damage for your class but you need their speed, a frigate sized gun, and a full drone bay that very soon might not be effective at all. Instead of using medium slots for your own benefit, it can take one or even two webbers just to slow frigates down enough to hit them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad frigates are good buys, and that they're so versatile. But a Battleship, the biggest and highest equipment investment you can make (save for maybe a high-end cloaking device) shouldn't have to give up such a percentage of its resources just to be able to protect itself from something a fraction of its size, cost, and power. The suggestions above are great - fast tracking large guns, or flak cannons could be expensive to build and maintain, but could be easier solutions to the problem, dealing enough damage to pose threats to drones and frigates both, maybe even the larger classes of missiles. Frigates don't really need nerfing, Battleships just need to be able to live up to their legendary descriptions and stop tripping over themselves when confronted with a few small adversaries.
Agree...some sorta of Point Defense System need to be available to BS/Cruiser Pilots....like CIWS (Phalanx)....High Rate of Fire...Sacrifice or a slot though (which, don't know what is fair to a BS pilot)...Not to much of a Grid/CPU eater...Auto Firing like Defenders or targeted (yes both would be neaded).... Projectile Based... Ammo HOG
Good for Frigate and Missiles Defense
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.08.26 20:47:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Fighterpilotjp Nice picture. I think Lonewulf has the right idea. Frigates are very powerful as it is, and Battleships especially have to go to rediculous lengths, sacrificing high slots and sorely needed medium slots to be able to protect themselves from frigates. Just to ensure some form of safety against one or two, you'd probably want to equip a smartbomb, some missiles that don't do enough damage for your class but you need their speed, a frigate sized gun, and a full drone bay that very soon might not be effective at all. Instead of using medium slots for your own benefit, it can take one or even two webbers just to slow frigates down enough to hit them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad frigates are good buys, and that they're so versatile. But a Battleship, the biggest and highest equipment investment you can make (save for maybe a high-end cloaking device) shouldn't have to give up such a percentage of its resources just to be able to protect itself from something a fraction of its size, cost, and power. The suggestions above are great - fast tracking large guns, or flak cannons could be expensive to build and maintain, but could be easier solutions to the problem, dealing enough damage to pose threats to drones and frigates both, maybe even the larger classes of missiles. Frigates don't really need nerfing, Battleships just need to be able to live up to their legendary descriptions and stop tripping over themselves when confronted with a few small adversaries.
Agree...some sorta of Point Defense System need to be available to BS/Cruiser Pilots....like CIWS (Phalanx)....High Rate of Fire...Sacrifice or a slot though (which, don't know what is fair to a BS pilot)...Not to much of a Grid/CPU eater...Auto Firing like Defenders or targeted (yes both would be neaded).... Projectile Based... Ammo HOG
Good for Frigate and Missiles Defense
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:28:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ghosthunter something like this
I second Meridius: -------------------
Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.08.26 21:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ghosthunter something like this
I second Meridius: -------------------
Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2004.08.26 22:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ghosthunter something like this
I second Meridius:
That is a sweet gun...who did that, or is it a model from a game?
combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I hits Blood Arch Templar, doing 133.7 damage. |
Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2004.08.26 22:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ghosthunter something like this
I second Meridius:
That is a sweet gun...who did that, or is it a model from a game?
combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I hits Blood Arch Templar, doing 133.7 damage. |
MwillyC
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Vladimir Illyvich Heres the armanent of the USS Missouri in 1983
I was refitted after the korean war, prior to wich it had absolutely no air defense of its own.
9 16 in (406 mm) 50 cal. Mark 7 guns 12 5 in (127 mm) 38 cal. Mark 12 guns 32 BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles 16 RGM-84 Harpoon Anti-Ship missiles 4 20mm/76 cal. CIWS(Aka Phalanx)
The modern USS missouri never went anywhere without her frigates to protect her. . .
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MwillyC
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Vladimir Illyvich Heres the armanent of the USS Missouri in 1983
I was refitted after the korean war, prior to wich it had absolutely no air defense of its own.
9 16 in (406 mm) 50 cal. Mark 7 guns 12 5 in (127 mm) 38 cal. Mark 12 guns 32 BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles 16 RGM-84 Harpoon Anti-Ship missiles 4 20mm/76 cal. CIWS(Aka Phalanx)
The modern USS missouri never went anywhere without her frigates to protect her. . .
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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ghosthunter something like this maybe , but so you could mount i on BS, and smaller version For cruiser, so if lets say you have it on BS, it will do aot of damage vs frigs but little vs other BS.s....
Hehe... that must be the Mega Modulated Goalkeeper I Extreme :) -------
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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ghosthunter something like this maybe , but so you could mount i on BS, and smaller version For cruiser, so if lets say you have it on BS, it will do aot of damage vs frigs but little vs other BS.s....
Hehe... that must be the Mega Modulated Goalkeeper I Extreme :) -------
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Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:59:00 -
[47]
Originally by: MwillyC
Originally by: Vladimir Illyvich Heres the armanent of the USS Missouri in 1983
I was refitted after the korean war, prior to wich it had absolutely no air defense of its own.
9 16 in (406 mm) 50 cal. Mark 7 guns 12 5 in (127 mm) 38 cal. Mark 12 guns 32 BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles 16 RGM-84 Harpoon Anti-Ship missiles 4 20mm/76 cal. CIWS(Aka Phalanx)
The modern USS missouri never went anywhere without her frigates to protect her. . .
I'm sure "modern" in EVE is a little better than "modern" today.
combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I hits Blood Arch Templar, doing 133.7 damage. |
Fighterpilotjp
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Posted - 2004.08.26 23:59:00 -
[48]
Originally by: MwillyC
Originally by: Vladimir Illyvich Heres the armanent of the USS Missouri in 1983
I was refitted after the korean war, prior to wich it had absolutely no air defense of its own.
9 16 in (406 mm) 50 cal. Mark 7 guns 12 5 in (127 mm) 38 cal. Mark 12 guns 32 BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles 16 RGM-84 Harpoon Anti-Ship missiles 4 20mm/76 cal. CIWS(Aka Phalanx)
The modern USS missouri never went anywhere without her frigates to protect her. . .
I'm sure "modern" in EVE is a little better than "modern" today.
combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser I hits Blood Arch Templar, doing 133.7 damage. |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.08.27 00:39:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Alowishus on 27/08/2004 00:43:55
Originally by: Lonewulf The last few months of Frigate uberness really is rediculas, why CCP would want to overpower a noob class ship so much is beyond comprehension
This is laughable. There is no rule that states that if you're an older player you can't fly frigs, or wouldn't want to. I have a BS but I have much more fun in frigs and cruisers. Try and find a "n00b" that can pilot a frig or cruiser as well as I can.
Guess what, you don't need frig guns to fight frigs. Use a webber and a large smartbomb or drones. All PvP ships with more than two mid slots should have a webber anyway.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.08.27 00:39:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Alowishus on 27/08/2004 00:43:55
Originally by: Lonewulf The last few months of Frigate uberness really is rediculas, why CCP would want to overpower a noob class ship so much is beyond comprehension
This is laughable. There is no rule that states that if you're an older player you can't fly frigs, or wouldn't want to. I have a BS but I have much more fun in frigs and cruisers. Try and find a "n00b" that can pilot a frig or cruiser as well as I can.
Guess what, you don't need frig guns to fight frigs. Use a webber and a large smartbomb or drones. All PvP ships with more than two mid slots should have a webber anyway.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
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Ja'darr
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Posted - 2004.08.27 00:51:00 -
[51]
I am a brand noob to the game but I am disappointed with what I am hearing about Battleships in the game and their vulunerability to much smaller ships.
Well a modern battleship would be virtually impossible to sink with traditional Anti-ship missles like Harpoons due to them not really being able to penetrate 12-16 inches of steel in the armor belt. I read that the average anti-ship missle packs about the punch of a Japanese Kamakazi and no battleships were significantly damaged by them in WWII. Also in WWI and WWII, before battleships were replaced by carriers as the powerhouse ship, most BS's would mount 6-10 5in fast firing cannons. The reason for these cannons was to take out "Secondaries" which were any ship smaller than a Heavy Crusier and keep those same ships from launching Torpedos. The 6in and smaller guns of Light Crusiers and smaller ships could never sink a BS, but torps could.
The point of this post is that the only real threat to Battleship should be crusier class weaponry (drones too) and above with maybe some heavy torpedo type weapons (can only mount 2-4 shots) available to Frigs.
A couple solutions would be to beef up the armor on Crusiers and Battleships so that small class weaponry is alot less effective against them and/or give Battleships 1-2 small class weapon slots so that they can have a limited amount of firepower to engage drones and frigates.
Battleships should be powerhouses and frigates should run for the hills when one warps in on them.
J.
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Ja'darr
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Posted - 2004.08.27 00:51:00 -
[52]
I am a brand noob to the game but I am disappointed with what I am hearing about Battleships in the game and their vulunerability to much smaller ships.
Well a modern battleship would be virtually impossible to sink with traditional Anti-ship missles like Harpoons due to them not really being able to penetrate 12-16 inches of steel in the armor belt. I read that the average anti-ship missle packs about the punch of a Japanese Kamakazi and no battleships were significantly damaged by them in WWII. Also in WWI and WWII, before battleships were replaced by carriers as the powerhouse ship, most BS's would mount 6-10 5in fast firing cannons. The reason for these cannons was to take out "Secondaries" which were any ship smaller than a Heavy Crusier and keep those same ships from launching Torpedos. The 6in and smaller guns of Light Crusiers and smaller ships could never sink a BS, but torps could.
The point of this post is that the only real threat to Battleship should be crusier class weaponry (drones too) and above with maybe some heavy torpedo type weapons (can only mount 2-4 shots) available to Frigs.
A couple solutions would be to beef up the armor on Crusiers and Battleships so that small class weaponry is alot less effective against them and/or give Battleships 1-2 small class weapon slots so that they can have a limited amount of firepower to engage drones and frigates.
Battleships should be powerhouses and frigates should run for the hills when one warps in on them.
J.
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Krulla
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Posted - 2004.08.27 00:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lonewulf
Originally by: Ghosthunter The last few months of Frigate uberness really is rediculas, why CCP would want to overpower a noob class ship so much is beyond comprehension, since it gives everyone (new players alike) nothing to strive for beyond frig 5 and some minor missle and small weapons skills, since even the engineering and electronics skills that are so VITAL for battleships aren't really needed on Frig class gank vessles.
You sir, are a idiot.
I fly frigates becouse I prefer small and nimble over huge and slow. Not becouse I am a noob.
There are so many ways a BS can counter a frigate. Ever thought about small and medium drones? Small go 3.8km/s, good luck evading that in a frig... and every BS has a 1500m3 or larger drone bay. Ever thought about webs? Smartbombs? Energy neut's/nossies? All those will squish a frigate, either directly or indirectly.
And in my opinion a team of frigates, though they cost a fraction of the BS, should kill the BS. The BS is one guy with a big wallet, the frigates are working together as a team.
I am tired of those "OMG I CANT KILL EVERYTHING IN MY UBER BS OMG CCP FIX!!!!!!!!!111111 I PAY 120 MILLION FOR MY BS AND 5 FRIGATE PILOTS KILL ME!!!!1111".
Think before you whine.
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Krulla
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Posted - 2004.08.27 00:52:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lonewulf
Originally by: Ghosthunter The last few months of Frigate uberness really is rediculas, why CCP would want to overpower a noob class ship so much is beyond comprehension, since it gives everyone (new players alike) nothing to strive for beyond frig 5 and some minor missle and small weapons skills, since even the engineering and electronics skills that are so VITAL for battleships aren't really needed on Frig class gank vessles.
You sir, are a idiot.
I fly frigates becouse I prefer small and nimble over huge and slow. Not becouse I am a noob.
There are so many ways a BS can counter a frigate. Ever thought about small and medium drones? Small go 3.8km/s, good luck evading that in a frig... and every BS has a 1500m3 or larger drone bay. Ever thought about webs? Smartbombs? Energy neut's/nossies? All those will squish a frigate, either directly or indirectly.
And in my opinion a team of frigates, though they cost a fraction of the BS, should kill the BS. The BS is one guy with a big wallet, the frigates are working together as a team.
I am tired of those "OMG I CANT KILL EVERYTHING IN MY UBER BS OMG CCP FIX!!!!!!!!!111111 I PAY 120 MILLION FOR MY BS AND 5 FRIGATE PILOTS KILL ME!!!!1111".
Think before you whine.
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Phonix
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Posted - 2004.08.27 01:09:00 -
[55]
UHHH??
Auto Reapeting 800mm's and a webbie do just fine agaisnt frigs.. --------------
Notferr has been pwned by CCP..
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Phonix
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Posted - 2004.08.27 01:09:00 -
[56]
UHHH??
Auto Reapeting 800mm's and a webbie do just fine agaisnt frigs.. --------------
Notferr has been pwned by CCP..
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Vladimir Illyvich
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Posted - 2004.08.27 01:57:00 -
[57]
What Id like to have is some kind of anti-missile system(like defenders) that uses a turret slot and is useless for anything else.
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Vladimir Illyvich
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Posted - 2004.08.27 01:57:00 -
[58]
What Id like to have is some kind of anti-missile system(like defenders) that uses a turret slot and is useless for anything else.
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Mongooser
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Posted - 2004.08.27 02:03:00 -
[59]
Well re the picture: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9706/28/super.gun/ not as cool looking but it is real
re the uber BS: I think CCP is trying to encourage team play. This is a good thing :). Also eliet frigs are in no way a n00b ship. They are vastly cheaper than a BS but they can perform very limited roles.
Must play EVE while drunk more......
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Mongooser
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Posted - 2004.08.27 02:03:00 -
[60]
Well re the picture: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9706/28/super.gun/ not as cool looking but it is real
re the uber BS: I think CCP is trying to encourage team play. This is a good thing :). Also eliet frigs are in no way a n00b ship. They are vastly cheaper than a BS but they can perform very limited roles.
Must play EVE while drunk more......
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