Nice read GGt Let me point out a few things:

When writing a post in a discussion it is good practice not to assume.

Since I have been involved in high sec groups, low sec groups, worm hole groups and null sec groups I have a varied background and am perfectly capable of contributing without sounding condescending, something that you may wish to consider when contributing to a discussion.

From all that writing I took the following points:
Group based activity versus Reward already runs.
Null sec is condemned to hundreds of people working together to achieve an infrastructure.
Infrastructure is used to secure a higher ISK/Hour.

Question then GGt Why do I see a lot of Test Alliance pilots in High sec running Incursions?

I like it... I really do, but not really on topic :P

now you should yell at one of the nullbears/WHbears/incubears/other random trolls

The +6 implants would in all serious be a nice addition to the Concord LP store, since it is kinda limited in there. Would be something else to spend my LP on.

Nice read GGt Let me point out a few things:

When writing a post in a discussion it is good practice not to assume.

Since I have been involved in high sec groups, low sec groups, worm hole groups and null sec groups I have a varied background and am perfectly capable of contributing without sounding condescending, something that you may wish to consider when contributing to a discussion.

From all that writing I took the following points:
Group based activity versus Reward already runs.
Null sec is condemned to hundreds of people working together to achieve an infrastructure.
Infrastructure is used to secure a higher ISK/Hour.

Question then GGt Why do I see a lot of Test Alliance pilots in High sec running Incursions?

Why do I see a lot of Test Alliance pilots in High sec running Incursions?

Pubbie Test got served....

Test pilots run incursions because null space doesn't give the same pay out--- hmmmm perhaps thats an issue with null sec...since everything about eve is null sec.... Null pilots really do think that they are doing eve a favour from playing the game thatt way??? 6% of eve plays in null sec ladies = thats the issue. Besides null sec isn't about moons is it? All that passive isk?

I don't even know how to respond to this one,, null sec isn't everything. However, CCP are the designers and owners of this videogame, decided that it would be run on the risk versus reward model. Null-sec being a theoretical riskiest place, means by CCP's own design everything should be more profitable in null sec. Otherwise it's broken. CCP has said this on numerous occasions.

As far as the moon goo is concerned that pays for our inter-structure, our and our alliance run programs.

CCP's own design everything should be more profitable in null sec

It amazes me that still you play this card..... believe that if you want to. What do you do with moons that do not have any raw material to mine?

I just want to point out:



It is is you stop being lazy about it. and yet you will still get the elitest null sec pilots running incursion in high sec.... again thats an issue with null sec.

The "high sec" crap is the reason they got nerfed, and very few run them in low sec because for the extra hassle it simply is not worth it. Because high sec incursions pay out too much relative to them.

You cannot simply dismiss the risk reward elements behind the incursion nerfs because it does not support your argument for the nerfs to be reversed.

Yes but the game shouldn't be balanced around the newbies, it needs to be balanced around the rich players abusing the system and refusing to leave the protected confines of high sec.

High sec is not intended as the end game, high profit risk free isk faucets are damaging to Eve as a whole. They funnel ISK into the economy, they fail to increase the velocity of money, they fail to create sufficient demand for new ships and quite simply are the primary cause of mudflation.

If Eve had a voluntarily terrible economy, and wasn't driven by war and competition, incursions could have continued the way they were going. Unfortunately the reality is that the way they were going ended in hyper-inflation, stagnation, mudflation and the complete heat death of the Eve universe.

Back on #148,

[load of BS].. I have kicked out two of the three legs of your argument.

I'll be your Post Necro for this evening. (insert evil maniacal laugh here) Back on #141,

none of those are risk.

I ran VG, I know there's no where in the universe you can die even if the logis got jammed.

noone will suicide gank you if you don't stupidly fit 5b mods on your ship.

EDIT: why do I still bother explain it to these selfish scrubs

2nd EDIT: isnt plex going down???

You don't even understand the argument. No one other than your fellow PvE Raiding Incursion farmers buys into your BS, so don't even bother.

Here's a great blog post by Tippia on the ISK generated by Incursions http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose

Bull ****! Not a single thing in EVE is balanced around rich players abusing the system! It's a sandbox. The rich constantly abuse the system, and it only gets worse as the sec status gets lower. There will always be certain players that abuse the system and profit from it far more than the other 99%.

"They funnel ISK into the economy" GGt True, but far less than other game elements. "they fail to increase the velocity of money" GGt False, Incursion pilots funnel billions of ISK back into the system.

"they fail to create sufficient demand for new ships" GGt False, False, False, as incursion pilots have an average of three dedicated incursion ships, and the richest incursion pilots buy the most expensive ships you can fly in high sec. "quite simply are the primary cause of mudflation" GGt False, as I have kicked out two of the three legs of your argument.

"for the extra hassle it simply is not worth it." Exactly; you said it yourself. There are parts of the risk reward equation that you're deliberately hiding. Simi, you can't dismiss the risk-reward of high sec Incursions because the risk-reward is present and justifiable.

Incursions have the risk of PvE ship loss GGt Sansha web, neut, jam, and focus fire. Ship loss is possible unless minimized by trusted pilots in your fleet. Incursions have the risk of depending on other players - disconnects, griefing, and misplaced trust are constant risks. Incursions have the risk of PvP, even if it's not the straight on PvP of null. Bricksquad claimed a lot of ships until the Incursion community bonded together like a null sec alliance. Incursions have the risk of high sec shipping GGt too many shinies, and someone will suicide gank you.

And finally, you're overvaluing the reward side. The time spent moving to the next Incursion constellation, the time spent waiting for fleet formation, and the time lost waiting on other players are never included in the "omg! 160M ISK/hr!" figure that people throw around. Some players can minimize those figures by running their own fleets for 12+ hrs/day, but that's not the vast majority of Incursion pilots. More on this in the next reply.

Well I've not hoarded my earnings... I've spent nearly all of it. On nice shiny ships and modules.

Who do you think will keep buying the A-type EANM's and faction damage modules?

According to Eve central they are still down at 1 bill each, a 200 million drop from when I got mine... I suppose I could hold onto mine till the next boom and sell them when they go up again.

Good for you. Lose a couple of those ships/modules and maybe it will mean something.

You Sir are a troll... The majority of shiny modules in Incursion runners are Tank mods. They need to be tanked because we take a lot of damage

Ships have been known to go down if the Niarja spawn isn't taken care of quick enough. If a cap chain is broken and there is too much incoming DPS you lose ships.

You have done a couple sites (with a full blue bar I'd guess and assume everything always goes swimmingly) Hell I've seen Logi's get melted in the early stages of NMC's from the 4 Romi's (pre patch) some that didn't have a strong enough tank just couldn't be kept up by the other logi's

Have you logi'd incursions? Have you ran anything above VG's? Or are you just one of the many people that are commenting on something you know almost nothing about?

P.S. Note to the smart ass that hired a merc corp... I have other characters I can run incursions on... Don't think that a war dec will stop me.

none of those are risk.

I ran VG, I know there's no where in the universe you can die even if the logis got jammed.

noone will suicide gank you if you don't stupidly fit 5b mods on your ship.

EDIT: why do I still bother explain it to these selfish scrubs

2nd EDIT: isnt plex going down???

Well considering ISN use's 1 Pith C Type Inv for Vanguards, If we do assaults, Just add a LSE, But are we know getting war threats in this thread now?

QQ

Not a Threat... someone actually hired mercs against us. when contacted they told us "I pissed someone off" But it's ok, the mercs have about 13 current war decs, our only casualty so far was one of our guys got drunk and decided to attack them... Firing on a stargate instead and getting Concordukkoned

Oh dude I have... I lost a full HG slave clone with all 6% implants. Also a paladin, a legion and 2 Bhaalgorns.

All bought and paid for with Incursions

Which is a lot, but then think about the Cartel in null sec, that have dictated to everyone how much they will sell their Moon harvest materials... or "We'll take your moon from you" I'm sorry but Cartels fixing the Tech moon prices I think is a much more abusive form of market manipulation than someone joining incursions.

Also I was waiting for someone to make a 99% vs 1% argument here... and oh my god the Incursion community is not the 1% The difference being is that "1%" is more of an exclusive thing. Like the trillions in isk that Null sec alliances bring in from Moon products and DED plex's... To which no one other than a select few may participate in without feeling the Wrath of the 1%

The Incursion communities are in the most part open and public and free for anyone to participate in. We have 2 main channels, one for Shield and another for Armor This is only for tanking preferences because it made sense to have the 2 channels to operate independently and even competing against each other for the rights and glory of the mom kills. I see, if anything Incursion runners are the middle class of eve, able to fund their PVP habits and invest in BPO's and other production ventures with the isk earned in incursions. But they are a far cry from those elite leaders of Alliances of null sec in New Eden.

But isn't Hulkageddon a wonderful thing... This drive to use T1 ships to suicide gank a bunch of expensive mining ships. I thought it very interesting that Covetors and Retrievers were removed from the list of ships rewarded for it. Then I realised that not much Technetium is used to produce these. And that the Goons fund Hulkageddon now because for every Hulk destroyed they sell more Technetium and profit even better. The thing is, once a Hulk is bought how often does it need re-bought? It isn't not unless you have a drive every year to remove as many from hi-sec as you can. So that all those hulks dying need replaced. Filling the Null-sec pockets even more... This is a perfect example of the 1% (moon owners in null sec) literally taking money from the 99% (hi-sec miners)

I run a 5 man corporation consisting of me and my alts, yet I run DED complexes regularly. Go figure.

[?

having to face the logistical challenges of getting loot into/out of wormholes/null sec is trivial in comparison.

No wonder you are so BUTTHURT about incursions. As a solo hermit you've lost out in the MMO communities
and when CCP started rewarding non hermit Incursions runners because they work together you & your 5 alts dual to hex boxing lost ground economically.

So people working together & whom don't live under a rock shouldn't make as much ISK as you do even though add to the sandbox unlike your solitary ways. This explains many of your posts TBH

Actually it is.

Due to the spawning mechanics which encourage farming and therefore lead to low turnover of incurions the fulltime incursion runners don't get the option of cherry picking those close to themselves, if that's their thing they have to follow from one incursion to the next moving their entire incursion dedicated assets every single time.

Have you logi'd incursions? Have you ran anything above VG's? Or are you just one of the many people that are commenting on something you know almost nothing about?

P.S. Note to the smart ass that hired a merc corp... I have other characters I can run incursions on... Don't think that a war dec will stop me.

I only fly logistics, sir, easiest ships to fly in incursion tbh.

my FC is ladytomahawk or something, cant really remember