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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:41:00 -
[151]
Originally by: UMEE
EVE players like to think theyre different. been playing both games for 3 years, and guess what. youre not that different.
also sci fi geek vs fantasy geek...guess what, both groups are sad. oh i feel so 
Its not sci fi or fantasy.
Its the fundamental difference sin EVE and WOW.
WOW is veiw on by the EVE players as a carebear game, with concentual PvP. And it more or less misison based, and it has a level cap.
EVE has no level cap, and what you do in EVE is entierly up to you, be it misison, PvP, empire building or industry.
EVE is also open ended and got the nice sandbox nature.
WOW is not open ended, there is no player built empires. There is the given Allaince and Horde. Granted, EVE got 4 empires, but they are insignificant when one looks at the player empires like Goon, AAA and former BoB (and others, but you get the point). And joining one of the 4 start empires does no mean you are part of one side. You got freedom of choise in EVE.
Also, the class sytem employed privdes som unique chars (but some are gonna be stronger hten otheres), while in EVE you can train all skills, and any skill you want. No limit there, you only need time.
These fundamental differences makes EVE "harder" to get into and "harder" to live and operate in. In EVE you also need to set your own goals as the environment does not do it for you.
I am no fan of WoW, only gave it a short test before I got into EVE, but I am sure WoW offers some entertaining situations as well, but ti was not for me. Too much level grinding. And when you get max level you etiehr start a new char or wait for the expansion. IMO that no fun at all. When I am don skilling in EVE, I can go on to new branches of skills. I can go to capital ships. I can go new races. And it never really ends. :).
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faxtarious
Minmatar
Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:44:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Deej
Makes you wonder whether some of these guys have lost touch with reality. (didn't you get the memo ?)
Eve is NOT a GAME,
It's not a recreation
It's not a pastime.
It's a second job
a religious experience
a test of intelligence
an indicator of character.
Fixed 
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Ferdio Ricotez
Gallente
Gisleres Mining Federation
Knights Collective
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:48:00 -
[153]
I really have nothing against WoW and the people who play it. In fact, my best friend plays it regulary, and has hi-level characters. I like to see him playing, because he has achieved what I could never get myself to do.
It took me three months to get across level 30. Considering most people get to level 60 in one, maybe two months I realized WoW was not the game for me. I don't like having to kill monster after monster, only to get that wretched purple (blue, if you're lucky) XP bar to the right end of the screen.
Everyone likes their kind of game. I like EVE and dislike WOW. I like TBS and don't really like RTS. I like Simcity and dislike The Sims.
Fact remains, this is EVE. It is completely uncompareable to WoW other than being an MMORPG, so please try to stop comparing the two games to each other and let everyone play his or her game of choice. It would really cut on the massive ammounts of anti-WoW spam everywhere.
On an interesting side note, has anyone of you seen Yahtzee's review on EVE in Zero Punctuations? It shows a quite different perspective on the game than one can find on this forum.
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COULD NO LONGER BEAR
BEING STUCK IN WH SPACE
SO I PRESSED THE BIG RED BUTTON
THAT SAYS DON'T PRESS |
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.04.09 15:59:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Ferdio Ricotez
On an interesting side note, has anyone of you seen Yahtzee's review on EVE in Zero Punctuations? It shows a quite different perspective on the game than one can find on this forum.
He went out of his way to make sure to do everything wrong, of course he is going to give it a bad review...
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:09:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Ferdio Ricotez
On an interesting side note, has anyone of you seen Yahtzee's review on EVE in Zero Punctuations? It shows a quite different perspective on the game than one can find on this forum.
He went out of his way to make sure to do everything wrong, of course he is going to give it a bad review...
"I tried to play WoW, but found it horribly boring and nothing but a grind. Of course, all I did was sit in the noob zones killing the same mobs over and over again, and when I asked other players why that wasn't working, they were all mean to me and laughed. So, by my in-depth analysis, WoW sucks."
That's kinda the same impression I got from Yahtzee's review. He refused to join a corporation, in a game that is designed around teamwork and socialization (moreso than any other on the market). Off the bat, it made me think that he wanted it to be a bad review (course, he does hate MMORPGs). It's like if I went into an FPS game and rated it poorly because my beginner's crowbar wouldn't allow me to go through the entire game without dying or something.
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Troll Score-o-Meter
--------Failure----------|||-----------Succes-------
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
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Haakelen
Gallente
REUNI0N
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:10:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Ferdio Ricotez
On an interesting side note, has anyone of you seen Yahtzee's review on EVE in Zero Punctuations? It shows a quite different perspective on the game than one can find on this forum.
He went out of his way to make sure to do everything wrong, of course he is going to give it a bad review...
But what amusement would come out of a good review?
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:11:00 -
[157]
Originally by: baumjoe
its more like sandbox mmo players hate on people who have never played a sandbox mmo and don't know to expect and then cry like baby's and we suckle on your noob tears
I wish people would stop using the word "sandbox" as if it were some sort of argument to end all arguments. All it does is make me think of small noisy children playing in sand littered with dog poo.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Anisa Schardl
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:50:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Ferret
... Theory crafting both individual setup, raid setup and boss tactics on top was intensely complicated.
...
People bang on a lot about the fact that in EVE it is a lot harsher, but really not many people take high risks with more than they are willing to grind to replace. I find it comparable with the grind to replace consumables in WoW.
Actually, I think this illustrates the point most people have made more than anything else. In WoW, ESPECIALLY if you're in a top guild, you only get excitement for about two weeks every six months. The new raid dungeon comes out (Ulduar soon), and for a couple weeks it's new. You get to kill bosses for the first time, and if you're cutting edge, you actually have to figure out HOW rather than just reading the strats online.
And then you kill them, and nowadays, even for mediocre guilds, you can clear all new content in under a month. The excitement is over, and congrats, you get to farm the instance every week for the next 5 months waiting for the next instance, so that everyone has the right gear to be able to clear it. It's mind numbing and boring, and even if you do it on hard mode (Sarth 3D, or achievements), you don't actually get anything other than maybe a vanity mount or title. The most brilliant thing Blizzard ever did was put their raids on week long reset timers, because that FORCES their playerbase to stay subscribed during the time in between content patches, or else they won't be able to do the new stuff due to lack of gear.
I really only play WoW now to hang out with some friends, much like some other posters have said. Many of them aren't on my server anymore though. And despite that fact, I am still compelled to show up three nights a week to clear out all the crap and get people their gear. Other than working on Sarth 3d, I can honestly say that the only exciting moment I experienced in WoW in the last couple months was winning the Azure Drake from Malygos a few days ago. That's it. And even Sarth 3D isn't exciting, because now it's just waiting for people to stop dying to stupid things.
I don't hate the game, but I do have a problem with people that think it's the best, or that think it's the only way to play. A number of my friends don't play Eve, even though they tried it, simply because they couldn't get out of the WoW mindset, couldn't grasp that they could choose to do whatever they wanted to do, and didn't have to kill x until y happens and then they can move on.
And I'm sorry, to claim that even cutting edge raiding is difficult is a farce. Unless you're a brain dead monkey, the sequence of events that needs to happen in order to beat a boss becomes abundantly clear after a couple of wipes. I cannot think of a single raid encounter where the strat DOESN'T become obvious after a short time. The rest of the work is just practice until people get it right.
You can absorb everything about every encounter in wow, every profession, everything you'd need to know, in a couple of days. You may not be able to execute it, but you'll know what needs to happen, and after that all you need to do is see the boss a couple times and it all comes together. You may screw up here or there and feel stupid, but mostly you'll just be waiting for the half of your raid that is slow in the head to stop making the same mistakes every attempt. I haven't discovered anything new in WoW for months now, and the only new stuff in the foreseeable future will be Ulduar. Same's not true for Eve, there's tons of stuff I still don't know, and there's stuff that 5-year players don't know. I don't feel compelled to play because if I don't my gear will fall behind, I play because I WANT to. I have goals I set for MYSELF, and only I can determine when I want them fulfilled. It's that freedom that I love. You COULD play WoW that way, I know people that do, but you rapidly find that there are few actual options, and most of them are a huge grind.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:53:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Tippia
Because of the numerous WoW players who come to EVE and expect it to be the same in terms of "levelling", in terms of PvE, in terms of safety, and in terms of lossless PvP, and then go about trying to change EVE into WoW because they feel so completely lost in this completely different game`
The terminology and the attempts at change have a tendency to come from the same people.
Dont forget the equation of how good a game is with how many subscribers it has 
"Good" is subjective. Therefore, putting something across an equals sign from it is a waste of time.
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Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request |
Onus Mian
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.09 17:27:00 -
[160]
Quote:
You can absorb everything about every encounter in wow, every profession, everything you'd need to know, in a cople of days. You may not be able to execute it, but you'll know what needs to happen, and after that all you need to do is see the boss a couple times and it all comes together.
Experience does help in WoW and you generally know how to react to certain situations even if you've never done the encounter before because the developers can be pretty predictable at times. I was an MT and often I'd just glance over a guide on wowwiki or wowhead before boss fights to get the key points and then figure things out from there and still managed to get my part right while the rest of the raid was dying in droves around me. Nothing like a good old Heroic Heigan to cut away the fat.
As MT the rest of the raid tends to follow you around like a lost sheep which can be amusing at times when you accidently fall off something and a load of idiots jump to their death thinking you were leading them somewhere.
----
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.09 18:59:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Onus Mian
Quote:
You can absorb everything about every encounter in wow, every profession, everything you'd need to know, in a cople of days. You may not be able to execute it, but you'll know what needs to happen, and after that all you need to do is see the boss a couple times and it all comes together.
Experience does help in WoW and you generally know how to react to certain situations even if you've never done the encounter before because the developers can be pretty predictable at times. I was an MT and often I'd just glance over a guide on wowwiki or wowhead before boss fights to get the key points and then figure things out from there and still managed to get my part right while the rest of the raid was dying in droves around me. Nothing like a good old Heroic Heigan to cut away the fat.
As MT the rest of the raid tends to follow you around like a lost sheep which can be amusing at times when you accidently fall off something and a load of idiots jump to their death thinking you were leading them somewhere.
Hahahah ... the same could be said for EvE. About knowing what's going to happen because the developers can be pretty predictable. Cause they can, and are. Ever done a mission? Then you've got some experience with every mission the game offers.
The plus side, though, is in the player-generated content. If you compared EvE's pve to WoW's pve, EvE would rate miserably. There's just so little to it. But when you start adding in things other than PvE content, including the market, manufacturing, corporate management, faction warfare, nulsec alliances, etc ... well, that's where EvE truly differs.
That's the fundamental difference. In WoW, you have a massive digital ton of developer created content. Raids, quests, storylines, events. In EvE, you have the same, only it's player generated. Corporations, alliances, warfare, theft, sabatoge, scams, manufacturing, market.
If a player never left hisec, never did anything other than missions or mining? Well, he wouldn't have a clue at how powerful EvE is. If that is all he WANTS to do, then I'd sincerely recommend going somewhere else.
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Troll Score-o-Meter
--------Failure----------|||-----------Succes-------
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
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Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:05:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Cyprus Black
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 09/04/2009 05:50:17
As predicted, the WoWtards have begun trolling here on the EvE forums. They always do because it's in their nature.
They believe so strongly that WoW is the greatest game of all time that anyone who finds joy in another game is obviously wrong and needs to be corrected
Please, take your garbage somewhere else. You'll not receive a warm welcome here.
this bolded statement is hilarious. Isn't this the exact thing that Eve players do (and yes I am an eve player, I've been 2 years clean of WoW.
It's so funny that Eve players use WoW as a curse word constantly but then if someone defends what is actually a really good game they get slandered for being "fanbois" and told their opinions don't matter.
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Anisa Schardl
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:08:00 -
[163]
That's my point. In Eve, before you can have any fun at all, you really have to decide what you want to do, what your goals are. If you can't do that, you really shouldn't be here, because you're not going to have fun.
Lots of people like themepark games, and that's fine. They should do what they enjoy, more power to them. But when they start trying to project their view of what's fun onto other people, then it's a problem, and it's why WoWers get flamed to hard on these boards. And it's an order of magnitude greater, because Eve is so different from most of the MMOs. A WoWer on the War or AoC boards gets flamed a bit, but the games already have a lot of similarities, so it's not really that harsh of a flaming, since changing those games to be more like WoW would only be changing little things, and more than likely wouldn't have much of an impact on the playerbase.
Doesn't hold true for EvE. Wowifying Eve would totally destroy it, and above all, that's what Eve players fear. Goes double since a lot of them are ex-SWG players, and don't want to see the same thing happen. That's why WoWers get flamed so hard here. They represent the greatest evil, the horrible possibility that one day the Eve devs will cave to the Wow whiners, and on that day everything great about Eve will evaporate.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:09:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Rogue Lilly
this bolded statement is hilarious. Isn't this the exact thing that Eve players do
The difference is that WoW players infest the entire web with their trolling and try to change every game to be more like WoW — EVE players tend to stay here and just want to keep EVE as EVE because they understand that not all games can or should be like it…
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Mistress Evita
Caldari
Booze and Hookers
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:11:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Ferdio Ricotez
It took me three months to get across level 30. Considering most people get to level 60 in one, maybe two months
I played WoW from January '05 to August '06 and then I started playing Eve. And I still played WoW on and off (a couple months at a time) till November '08. I have one WoW character at level 56 and the other 18 WoW characters (on different servers of course) are between 10 and 50. My attention span when it comes to WoW is very very very short.
It's not a bad game. It's a laid back, don't get your panties in a bunch, I can't loose anything even if I screw up game to me.
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Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:21:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Ferdio Ricotez
On an interesting side note, has anyone of you seen Yahtzee's review on EVE in Zero Punctuations? It shows a quite different perspective on the game than one can find on this forum.
He went out of his way to make sure to do everything wrong, of course he is going to give it a bad review...
"I tried to play WoW, but found it horribly boring and nothing but a grind. Of course, all I did was sit in the noob zones killing the same mobs over and over again, and when I asked other players why that wasn't working, they were all mean to me and laughed. So, by my in-depth analysis, WoW sucks."
That's kinda the same impression I got from Yahtzee's review. He refused to join a corporation, in a game that is designed around teamwork and socialization (moreso than any other on the market). Off the bat, it made me think that he wanted it to be a bad review (course, he does hate MMORPGs). It's like if I went into an FPS game and rated it poorly because my beginner's crowbar wouldn't allow me to go through the entire game without dying or something.
In his defense to join a corporation consists of days of out of game research trolling the forums for hours on end. sending out messages to tons of random people. being ridiculed, talked down to, insulted, and denied from every corp you speak with because they don't want new characters. And if you do run across a corp willing to take your 1.2sp character they are probably just scamming you.
Gamers have just come to expect a higher level of polish on their games. They expect to go through a streamlined UI that lets them socialize rather than having to deal with 99% of players trying to scam them or take advantage of them in some way.
Yes yes yes, I know. "It's all part of the harsh reality of eve" but can't you at least understand where the other side is coming from when really the only way to get into the social aspect in eve is to already know someone.
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Rogue Lilly
Caldari
Lords Of Filth
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:28:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Rogue Lilly on 09/04/2009 19:28:57
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Rogue Lilly
this bolded statement is hilarious. Isn't this the exact thing that Eve players do
The difference is that WoW players infest the entire web with their trolling and try to change every game to be more like WoW y EVE players tend to stay here and just want to keep EVE as EVE because they understand that not all games can or should be like it`
more like eve players stay here and spend countless hours trash talking WoW players to try and achieve some sense of superiority. Seriously lay off those guys, they like a different game than you that is a generally good game so what's everyone problem.
I know most eve players feel their e-peen is threatened by the massive cyber-dong of WoW. But if we like eve more we play it, if they like WoW more they play that.
Oh and the only times I have ever in my many many wasted days spent at work reading these forums read anything about a WoW player trying to change eve to be like wow is when someone says they are irritated with the scammer spam, pirates who think they are pirates because they can gank a 2 day old player, or the unfriendly UI....and the "I-WIN-BUTTON" argument is "go back to WoW" from some snotty argumentative eve player who has no real valid response but thinks they should open their mouth anyway.
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Meazy San
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:31:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Rogue Lilly
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Ferdio Ricotez
On an interesting side note, has anyone of you seen Yahtzee's review on EVE in Zero Punctuations? It shows a quite different perspective on the game than one can find on this forum.
He went out of his way to make sure to do everything wrong, of course he is going to give it a bad review...
"I tried to play WoW, but found it horribly boring and nothing but a grind. Of course, all I did was sit in the noob zones killing the same mobs over and over again, and when I asked other players why that wasn't working, they were all mean to me and laughed. So, by my in-depth analysis, WoW sucks."
That's kinda the same impression I got from Yahtzee's review. He refused to join a corporation, in a game that is designed around teamwork and socialization (moreso than any other on the market). Off the bat, it made me think that he wanted it to be a bad review (course, he does hate MMORPGs). It's like if I went into an FPS game and rated it poorly because my beginner's crowbar wouldn't allow me to go through the entire game without dying or something.
In his defense to join a corporation consists of days of out of game research trolling the forums for hours on end. sending out messages to tons of random people. being ridiculed, talked down to, insulted, and denied from every corp you speak with because they don't want new characters. And if you do run across a corp willing to take your 1.2sp character they are probably just scamming you.
Gamers have just come to expect a higher level of polish on their games. They expect to go through a streamlined UI that lets them socialize rather than having to deal with 99% of players trying to scam them or take advantage of them in some way.
Yes yes yes, I know. "It's all part of the harsh reality of eve" but can't you at least understand where the other side is coming from when really the only way to get into the social aspect in eve is to already know someone.
Partly true, while it's a fact that alot of eve players are scamming and trying to get over on people, it's not really hard to find a corp that accepts noobs. In fact alot of industrial corps will accept noobs and some of the corps even have pvp training cause alot of carebears do want to pvp at some time of there eve careers. There are also a couple of training corps (academies). Hell there are even pirate training corps.
Faction Warfare is an option. Though it's been dry as of late, but there are still peeps in it and a good place to make some friends.
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Tyrantus
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:32:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Ferdio Ricotez
On an interesting side note, has anyone of you seen Yahtzee's review on EVE in Zero Punctuations? It shows a quite different perspective on the game than one can find on this forum.
He went out of his way to make sure to do everything wrong, of course he is going to give it a bad review...
Heh. There should be some sort of eve law similar to Godwin's about posting Yahtzee's review in a wow vs eve thread.  That review is about as unbiased as a bitter quadriplegic forced to type out a review of hopscotch with a pencil in thier mouth. 
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Beregga
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:34:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
That's kinda the same impression I got from Yahtzee's review. He refused to join a corporation, in a game that is designed around teamwork and socialization (moreso than any other on the market). Off the bat, it made me think that he wanted it to be a bad review (course, he does hate MMORPGs). It's like if I went into an FPS game and rated it poorly because my beginner's crowbar wouldn't allow me to go through the entire game without dying or something.
That, and it sounds like he hates just about anything that's not a twitch game. He'd probably really hate the ICS. "Bad imitation of a chessboard." "Once you've played one game, it's just repeated grinding."
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WonkySplitDemon
United Nations Space Command
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:40:00 -
[171]
I think its much much much more simple than people seem to realise...
EvE players hate WoW to make themselves feel better about being similarly addicted to a computer game that is less nerdy than WoW. So they take the high ground.
Lets face it 8 million? people cant all be childish idiots who need their hand held at all times whilst playing...
I tried it for a while and it was fun, but it makes you feel like an uber sad social reject and i would not admit to playing it IRL. EvE on the other hand is a bit less pathetic and i know of a few human beings IRL who play..
So to sum up people flame WoW as they are insecure fanboys :)
WHO AGREES? 
UNSC-
United Nations Space Command |
Beregga
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:44:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Anisa Schardl
That's my point. In Eve, before you can have any fun at all, you really have to decide what you want to do, what your goals are. If you can't do that, you really shouldn't be here, because you're not going to have fun.
Oh, I'm having a blast, even though I don't know what I want to do, or what I'm doing half the time. Granted, I'm probably failing some objective e-peen competition because I'm not getting 5% more profit on my manufacturing or racking up the PvP kills, but there is always something that beats another episode of CSI.
Originally by: Tippa
The difference is that WoW players infest the entire web with their trolling and try to change every game to be more like WoW y EVE players tend to stay here and just want to keep EVE as EVE because they understand that not all games can or should be like it`
Please, some of us play both as both for the strengths and weaknesses of both. And as an old fart who played both class- and skill-based systems back when they required a lot of pencil lead and a bag of dice, I can appreciate the mechanics of both.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:45:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Rogue Lilly
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Originally by: Ferdio Ricotez
On an interesting side note, has anyone of you seen Yahtzee's review on EVE in Zero Punctuations? It shows a quite different perspective on the game than one can find on this forum.
He went out of his way to make sure to do everything wrong, of course he is going to give it a bad review...
"I tried to play WoW, but found it horribly boring and nothing but a grind. Of course, all I did was sit in the noob zones killing the same mobs over and over again, and when I asked other players why that wasn't working, they were all mean to me and laughed. So, by my in-depth analysis, WoW sucks."
That's kinda the same impression I got from Yahtzee's review. He refused to join a corporation, in a game that is designed around teamwork and socialization (moreso than any other on the market). Off the bat, it made me think that he wanted it to be a bad review (course, he does hate MMORPGs). It's like if I went into an FPS game and rated it poorly because my beginner's crowbar wouldn't allow me to go through the entire game without dying or something.
In his defense to join a corporation consists of days of out of game research trolling the forums for hours on end. sending out messages to tons of random people. being ridiculed, talked down to, insulted, and denied from every corp you speak with because they don't want new characters. And if you do run across a corp willing to take your 1.2sp character they are probably just scamming you.
Gamers have just come to expect a higher level of polish on their games. They expect to go through a streamlined UI that lets them socialize rather than having to deal with 99% of players trying to scam them or take advantage of them in some way.
Yes yes yes, I know. "It's all part of the harsh reality of eve" but can't you at least understand where the other side is coming from when really the only way to get into the social aspect in eve is to already know someone.
I don't think you have that quite right. Gamers don't expect a 'higher level of polish'. They expect developers to go out of their way to make things easy. If it was polish they wanted, buggy games like WoW, or anything produced/hosted by SOE, would NEVER have gotten a customer. The LEAST buggy game I've played in the last few years was Tabula Rasa, and we saw how well that worked out.
No, the mass market of gamers expect to be able to play their video games without any need to worry about the basics. Basics like 'making friends' and 'developing trust', or 'watching your own back.' I do UNDERSTAND that many gamers seek this same mentality from development groups. I mean, the mentality of most gamers seems to be 'Please game gods, protect me'. They want from video game designers, what they wish could happen in real life. Divine protection and intervention, to keep all the unfairness away.
And I completely disagree. You don't have to already know someone. All you have to do is talk. Chat someone up, talk to them, broach trust. The difference is that other video games are like high school, and that's why kids understand them. You're in a moderated social environment, and while you don't all have to like each other, the teachers are there to make sure you play nice. EvE is a welcome to the adult world. There is no social environment, other than the one you make or join. You're left to your own devices on whether you're going to make friends or be a loner.
It's a matter of interpretation. You might hate the act of going out and dealing with the mistrust, the abuse, the deception. I, personally, don't. Because when nobody is forced to be good and nice, it kinda makes me appreciate those who are just a little bit more.
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:50:00 -
[174]
Originally by: WonkySplitDemon
Lets face it 8 million? people cant all be childish idiots who need their hand held at all times whilst playing...
Hahahah ... the longer I live, the more I realize that there are far more idiots in the world than rational human beings.
I'm sure that not everyone in that eleven million playerbase is an idiot. But then again, I don't think that everyone who eats at McDonalds is a fat slob. But you have to admit that the products themselves ATTRACT those types of individuals more than others.
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
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WonkySplitDemon
United Nations Space Command
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.09 19:51:00 -
[175]
Edited by: WonkySplitDemon on 09/04/2009 19:54:03
Many say that eve is harder - but if you think about it, you can just rack up the skill queue, leave it for 3 weeks and come back 10x more equipped to make your way.... I think the fact that eve is more open ended makes it a much more relaxed game to play, i can sit on eve with a few cans and chat with my corpmates for hours without leaving a station, all the while my skills are improving.. if you did that in WoW you would be lvl 1 for eternity. so that argument kinda falls flat on its arse. also people say WoW is "consentual PVP". Obviously these people have been playing on the NON-PVP Realms. If your playing on a pvp realm you can be attacked at any time anywhere and you do have to watch your back.
Hahahah ... the longer I live, the more I realize that there are far more idiots in the world than rational human beings.
I'm sure that not everyone in that eleven million playerbase is an idiot. But then again, I don't think that everyone who eats at McDonalds is a fat slob. But you have to admit that the products themselves ATTRACT those types of individuals more than others.
you speak sense... i wonder how many of eves 30+ thousand players have as much common sense as yourself :)
UNSC-
United Nations Space Command |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 19:57:00 -
[176]
Originally by: WonkySplitDemon
Many say that eve is harder - but if you think about it, you can just rack up the skill queue, leave it for 3 weeks and come back 10x more equipped to make your way.... I think the fact that eve is more open ended makes it a much more relaxed game to play, i can sit on eve with a few cans and chat with my corpmates for hours without leaving a station, all the while my skills are improving.. if you did that in WoW you would be lvl 1 for eternity. so that argument kinda falls flat on its arse. also people say WoW is "consentual PVP". Obviously these people have been playing on the NON-PVP Realms. If your playing on a pvp realm you can be attacked at any time anywhere and you do have to watch your back.
I would suggest you get a new player to try that. Take someone who's never played a video game before in his life. Put him in EvE. Show him how to rack up that skill queue and come back three weeks later 10x more powerful.
Problem you'll find, is that even having higher skills, doesn't mean he's better. He, the player (not his character) still has a lot of learning to do. Because despite spending a month in-game doing nothing but missions, despite knowing how to turn on all your turrets and put that repper on when it's ready ... you still don't know anything. You don't know how to fly in a fleet, don't know how to align for gang warps, don't know how to manage a POS, don't know how to perform factory runs, don't know how to cycle those turrets to get around the lag bombs or pump that repper on a ship that isn't cap stable.
You can put that same player in WoW, and even then, he has tips and tricks to learn. But those tips and tricks are far more shallow, and they're all pretty much neatly spelled out for you. The difficulty, you'll find, is not in learning how to play, but applying that knowledge ... or moreso, knowing what to learn in the first place
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
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WonkySplitDemon
United Nations Space Command
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:02:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: WonkySplitDemon
Many say that eve is harder - but if you think about it, you can just rack up the skill queue, leave it for 3 weeks and come back 10x more equipped to make your way.... I think the fact that eve is more open ended makes it a much more relaxed game to play, i can sit on eve with a few cans and chat with my corpmates for hours without leaving a station, all the while my skills are improving.. if you did that in WoW you would be lvl 1 for eternity. so that argument kinda falls flat on its arse. also people say WoW is "consentual PVP". Obviously these people have been playing on the NON-PVP Realms. If your playing on a pvp realm you can be attacked at any time anywhere and you do have to watch your back.
I would suggest you get a new player to try that. Take someone who's never played a video game before in his life. Put him in EvE. Show him how to rack up that skill queue and come back three weeks later 10x more powerful.
Problem you'll find, is that even having higher skills, doesn't mean he's better. He, the player (not his character) still has a lot of learning to do. Because despite spending a month in-game doing nothing but missions, despite knowing how to turn on all your turrets and put that repper on when it's ready ... you still don't know anything. You don't know how to fly in a fleet, don't know how to align for gang warps, don't know how to manage a POS, don't know how to perform factory runs, don't know how to cycle those turrets to get around the lag bombs or pump that repper on a ship that isn't cap stable.
You can put that same player in WoW, and even then, he has tips and tricks to learn. But those tips and tricks are far more shallow, and they're all pretty much neatly spelled out for you. The difficulty, you'll find, is not in learning how to play, but applying that knowledge ... or moreso, knowing what to learn in the first place
I agree with you 100% but i highly doubt a person new to gaming in general will be looking to pay z14.00 or whatever to play a sci-fi mmorpg.... in fact i highly doubt that there is such a person these days..
surely the "sandbox" style game that so many profess eve to be means that there is no "way to play the game". Surely a game of that nature is designed to be played how the individual wishes to play it, so the activities you mentioned may not mean zip to the next guy?
UNSC-
United Nations Space Command |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 20:17:00 -
[178]
Originally by: WonkySplitDemon
I agree with you 100% but i highly doubt a person new to gaming in general will be looking to pay z14.00 or whatever to play a sci-fi mmorpg.... in fact i highly doubt that there is such a person these days..
surely the "sandbox" style game that so many profess eve to be means that there is no "way to play the game". Surely a game of that nature is designed to be played how the individual wishes to play it, so the activities you mentioned may not mean zip to the next guy?
There's truth there, but it's not entirely how it sounds. Many players say 'it's a sandbox game', and then try to use the argument of playing how you want, to justify why there should be preventions put into place to prevent others from ruining their game.
"But I don't WANT to have other players interrupt my missions and steal from me. If EvE was really a sandbox game, there's be a place where I could play without others."
That's the difference in understanding. It's not a sandbox where ALL playstyles have their own corners. That's not what defines a sandbox. A true sandbox is where you put all the mechanics out there for everyone to play with. A true sandbox also allows others to interrupt you.
So yes, all that knowledge of industry or manufacturing or POS warfare or small scale combat may not interest you in the slightest. You don't HAVE to learn it. But you'll find that you're still affected by it. Because in this game we call EvE, we're all in the same sandbox. You can try and hide from the impact you're actions have on others, but it's still there, and it's still significant. EVERYONE has an impact.
Sure, there's no one right way to play. But there is truth and fiction. If you think you can play EvE, minding your own business, doing missions and never having an impact on another character or player, you ARE WRONG. If you think you can play EvE without ever competing with others, or taking from them ... you are wrong. It's not that you are intentionally doing so, but there's a lot of repercussions to players actions that they simply don't understand.
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
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Dramund
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:28:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
I would suggest you get a new player to try that. Take someone who's never played a video game before in his life. Put him in EvE. Show him how to rack up that skill queue and come back three weeks later 10x more powerful.
Problem you'll find, is that even having higher skills, doesn't mean he's better. He, the player (not his character) still has a lot of learning to do. Because despite spending a month in-game doing nothing but missions, despite knowing how to turn on all your turrets and put that repper on when it's ready ... you still don't know anything. You don't know how to fly in a fleet, don't know how to align for gang warps, don't know how to manage a POS, don't know how to perform factory runs, don't know how to cycle those turrets to get around the lag bombs or pump that repper on a ship that isn't cap stable.
The problem is that goes both ways, though. For example, an average person with a lot of free time (let's say full time job, no overtime, no kids, low-maintenance girlfriend) hops into Eve, starts a character, and really gets into small-gang warfare. The new player is most likely flying a T1 frigate and tackling. If a dedicated player, it would probably take a couple months to learn everything he needs to know about participating in small-gang warfare and would be 100% competent to fly a Tech 2 ship. The new player will realize that depending on what he wants to specialize in, it will take at least a few months to train into and he'll have to start training ISK-making related skills. This can be an extremely frustrating experience because the player realizes he has no choice but to wait. The player will then probably find a new hobby while his skills train and decide Eve is simply not worth it.
This frustration can also happen with players who learn fast, which is interesting because so many Eve players think the design "weeds out idiots." If Eve weeds out any type of player first, it weeds out the impatient types - which I wager is a good personality trait for certain roles. I also shouldn't have to point out that some of the most brilliant people in the world are extremely impatient. We will miss them in Eve.
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Beregga
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Posted - 2009.04.09 20:56:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Dramund
The problem is that goes both ways, though. For example, an average person with a lot of free time (let's say full time job, no overtime, no kids, low-maintenance girlfriend) hops into Eve, starts a character, and really gets into small-gang warfare. The new player is most likely flying a T1 frigate and tackling. If a dedicated player, it would probably take a couple months to learn everything he needs to know about participating in small-gang warfare and would be 100% competent to fly a Tech 2 ship. The new player will realize that depending on what he wants to specialize in, it will take at least a few months to train into and he'll have to start training ISK-making related skills. This can be an extremely frustrating experience because the player realizes he has no choice but to wait. The player will then probably find a new hobby while his skills train and decide Eve is simply not worth it.
This frustration can also happen with players who learn fast, which is interesting because so many Eve players think the design "weeds out idiots." If Eve weeds out any type of player first, it weeds out the impatient types - which I wager is a good personality trait for certain roles. I also shouldn't have to point out that some of the most brilliant people in the world are extremely impatient. We will miss them in Eve.
Well, I don't necessarily agree with this line of reasoning. Because the existence of long-term character development goals that can't be achieved in a single night, session, or even in a single "campaign" has been one of the essential characteristics of Role Playing Games going back to AD&D First Edition. (Which is something that Yahtzee doesn't quite grok about the genre.) And, well, it's not as if you gotta have a T2 Frigate or Hulk to participate in the game. You might not be raking in billions of dollars off the bat, but it is possible to make a living in the game with equipment and skills you can train in the first few weeks.
Which is really hard to do in WoW.
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