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Noofels
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
- Character A is out flying a random ship in low sec when character B "randomly" stumbles upon him and destroys his ship.
- Character A is "totally raging mad", and decides to "get revenge" by putting a bounty on character B.
- Character B pods himself with his alt collecting the bounty.
Given the absurd amount of ISK that is on some people's heads (215B highest ATM), this seems like a totally legitimate method of transferring ISK from one account to another with plausible deniability.
The above scenario is the entire reason for bounties after all. Maybe character A was indeed mad enough that his Brand New battleship was destroyed and decided to put several billion in bounty on someone's head. Who are CCP to decide the value that someone puts on their ISK?
The story checks out and CCP shouldn't be allowed to take the money away from Character B, correct?
Even if character A botted, the ISK they use in transactions and various activities isn't going to be reversed in the likely case unless there is a clear connection and it is easily reversible without damaging the legitimate players. Although I don't know the exact details of the extent of their transaction reversals.
I'm sure this method has been tried and discussed before, but I can't quite see any flaw in the logic. Can anyone point it out to me? |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Cold Hand of Shadow
91
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Confirming I never transfer isk between my alt accounts. |
Gorongo Frostfyr
Shimohi Heavy Industries
72
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
people put the bounties on themselves to get internetsfame. |
Noofels
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Confirming I never transfer isk between my alt accounts.
The issue is that if a botter's account transfers ISK to you, it will be removed from your account. Meaning that real life money you paid for it will go down the drain. Hence, we're discussing methods of moving ISK about without suspicion.
EDIT: Or rather moving ISK within legal methods of the game and thus denying CCP the reason for removing the ISK. |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Cold Hand of Shadow
91
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Noofels wrote:Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Confirming I never transfer isk between my alt accounts. The issue is that if a botter's account transfers ISK to you, it will be removed from your account. Meaning that real life money you paid for it will go down the drain. Hence, we're discussing methods of moving ISK about without suspicion. EDIT: Or rather moving ISK within legal methods of the game and thus denying CCP the reason for removing the ISK.
If I read this right, you're looking to clarify a sneaky way to make RMT isk plausible? This sounds like an "in before thread disappears" situation. You should probably just leave the details to CCP...or if you really care so much, submit a petition with your revelation rather than broadcasting this to the world. |
Noofels
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well, really I'm hoping that the wrong people learn of the method and CCP does something interesting with bounties. Also, if more people are aware that this is an exploit, it would mean more people vote for the change through CSM and general forum discussion.
But like I said, this should be old news for both parties, and I am just curious about how CCP catches the people that do this. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2331
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Noofels wrote:
I'm sure this method has been tried and discussed before, but I can't quite see any flaw in the logic. Can anyone point it out to me?
The flaw is that CCP is still allowed to take away money from character B no matter what. Your scenario is just a variant of someone wanting to buy 1 unit of trit for 5 billion ISK. It might be a legitimate trade/succesful scam and CCP shouldn't be allowed to take the money away no matter what, right? The point is, that if CCP have strong reasons to believe that the transfer of wealth was suspicious, you're ******. No ifs or buts about it. There are no rules or mechanics that you can use to shield yourself from the consequenses of your wrongdoing once you have been found.
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Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
328
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Noofels wrote:
I'm sure this method has been tried and discussed before, but I can't quite see any flaw in the logic. Can anyone point it out to me?
The flaw is that CCP is still allowed to take away money from character B no matter what. Your scenario is just a variant of someone wanting to buy 1 unit of trit for 5 billion ISK. It might be a legitimate trade/succesful scam and CCP shouldn't be allowed to take the money away no matter what, right? The point is, that if CCP have strong reasons to believe that the transfer of wealth was suspicious, you're ******. No ifs or buts about it. There are no rules or mechanics that you can use to shield yourself from the consequenses of your wrongdoing once you have been found.
This. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
malaire
384
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Noofels wrote:Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Confirming I never transfer isk between my alt accounts. The issue is that if a botter's account transfers ISK to you, it will be removed from your account. Meaning that real life money you paid for it will go down the drain. Hence, we're discussing methods of moving ISK about without suspicion. EDIT: Or rather moving ISK within legal methods of the game and thus denying CCP the reason for removing the ISK. I don't think that is "method of moving ISK about without suspicion".
In my opinion putting high bounty on someone is highly suspicious, and should be handled by CCP just like if person would've just given that ISK directly (in case it was RMT/botting ISK).
It is well known that bounty system is broken, so why would anyone put high bounty on anyone else, except to give him the ISK.
New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1755
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:The story checks out and CCP shouldn't be allowed to take the money away from Character B, correct?
This would be the other point where you messed up.
Nobody allows CCP to do anything in this game, least of all reclaiming their own ISK. Remember, you don't own that ISK, you are merely allowed to use it at CCP's discretion.
They can revoke that privelege at any time, for any reason. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
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Noofels
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Noofels wrote:
I'm sure this method has been tried and discussed before, but I can't quite see any flaw in the logic. Can anyone point it out to me?
The flaw is that CCP is still allowed to take away money from character B no matter what. Your scenario is just a variant of someone wanting to buy 1 unit of trit for 5 billion ISK. It might be a legitimate trade/succesful scam and CCP shouldn't be allowed to take the money away no matter what, right? The point is, that if CCP have strong reasons to believe that the transfer of wealth was suspicious, you're ******. No ifs or buts about it. There are no rules or mechanics that you can use to shield yourself from the consequenses of your wrongdoing once you have been found.
Of course this is true. However, what's the difference between a regular player dumping a huge ISK on someone's head and an RMT-er? That's what I'm trying to get at. If both the legitimate player and an RMT-er do the same thing, CCP could end up punishing regular players for no reason, yet we don't really hear about that. |
malaire
384
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Noofels wrote:Of course this is true. However, what's the difference between a regular player dumping a huge ISK on someone's head and an RMT-er? That's what I'm trying to get at. If both the legitimate player and an RMT-er do the same thing, CCP could end up punishing regular players for no reason, yet we don't really hear about that. Difference is source of ISK. Regular player got ISK legally. New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
Noofels
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.05.02 14:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
malaire wrote:Noofels wrote:Of course this is true. However, what's the difference between a regular player dumping a huge ISK on someone's head and an RMT-er? That's what I'm trying to get at. If both the legitimate player and an RMT-er do the same thing, CCP could end up punishing regular players for no reason, yet we don't really hear about that. Difference is source of ISK. Regular player got ISK legally.
What if Character A is a trade mogul with a ton of ISK in the bank and wants to cash out before quitting the game? Legally obtained ISK. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1755
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 14:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Noofels wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Noofels wrote:
I'm sure this method has been tried and discussed before, but I can't quite see any flaw in the logic. Can anyone point it out to me?
The flaw is that CCP is still allowed to take away money from character B no matter what. Your scenario is just a variant of someone wanting to buy 1 unit of trit for 5 billion ISK. It might be a legitimate trade/succesful scam and CCP shouldn't be allowed to take the money away no matter what, right? The point is, that if CCP have strong reasons to believe that the transfer of wealth was suspicious, you're ******. No ifs or buts about it. There are no rules or mechanics that you can use to shield yourself from the consequenses of your wrongdoing once you have been found. Of course this is true. However, what's the difference between a regular player dumping a huge ISK on someone's head and an RMT-er? That's what I'm trying to get at. If both the legitimate player and an RMT-er do the same thing, CCP could end up punishing regular players for no reason, yet we don't really hear about that.
A single occurance would likely not cause any action, but an investigation would turn up other parts to the puzzle. The placing of the bounty would only be one act in a long string of actions that would provide reasonable proof of RMT activities.
And no, this fishing expedition won't get more details than that from CCP. If you know exactly what their procedures are it is much easier to circumvent them. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
547
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 15:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
yet another reason the bounty system should be overhauled. |
Kill Rockstar
Perkone Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.05.02 15:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:yet another reason the bounty system should be overhauled.
Not empty quoting.
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
2189
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 15:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Usually we delete speculations on how to safely launder money or perform any kind of exploit, but I'm going to let this one stand because it's a really bad trick and because it would be nice if someone who's doing something bad will see this and attempt to escape his destiny by using it.
We saw through this trick so long ago that we were sending E mails about it on USBs with carrier pigeons.
I-¦m going to lock the thread though :) CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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