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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.03.29 21:46:00 -
[1]
I have a question on pricing and market but I am looking for real answers not just random rules of thumb.
If the invention chance is 50% do you price the invention BPC = Two copies of BPC and 2*Data cores?
Carrying on this line, for BS, freighter and so on?
Or do you price your T2 copies some other way?
I would post this in science but I'm afraid of the dumb posters there. So how do you value your T2 copies?
Originally by: CCP Whisper Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
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Sphynx Stormlord
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.03.29 22:09:00 -
[2]
That is partly wrong; while it is useful to know how much it costs to produce the invented bpc's, their price should be dependant on what people will be willing to pay for them as well.
And that is based on a combination of the production costs and for the thing your bpc makes, and the value of that product.
So if the total profit from building all the runs of the bpc is only 10 mil (without factoring in the bpc cost), then the blueprint is worth less than 10 mil, even if it cost you 30 mil to create. Don't make ones like that.
Warning: For some products it is possible to create bpcs that are not worth building, if you use the wrong decryptors. Such bpcs basically have a negative value.
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Trading Bunnz
Equatorial Industires Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2009.03.30 00:09:00 -
[3]
Wow, sphynx! Make sure you read your alt corp's evemail. :D FRPB Shares in Default |
Lord SPAM
Ripple Rock Mining Co.
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Posted - 2009.03.30 11:46:00 -
[4]
Good Day,
My Corp builds Jaguars, we have a formula used to predict a cost of each BPC. The way we calculate our cost is based on a fixed amount of Jaguars we want to build.
The cost of T2 BPCs are based on 2 things. First you need to calculate your success rate, you MUST determine how many BPCs you want to create in order to get an accurate cost. Using the invention calculators you can determine your success rate based on your skills. For frigs, the base is 30%, as you bring your skills up it moves up. My are 36%. The Second factor is the cost of items used to invent the item (T1 BPC, Datacores, encryptors, POS fuels/Slot rental etc.)
For example:
I need to make 20 Jaguar BPCs so my corp can make 20 Jaguars. With my skill my success rate is about 36%. (http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php)
In order to make 20 Jag BPCs I will need to do 55 invention jobs. (20/55 = ~36%)
For 55 invention Jobs I will need the following: a) 55 1 run rifter bpcs (55 x 5,000) b) 110 Starship engineering Datacores (110 x 300,000) c) 110 Mechanical engineering Datacores (110 x 300,000) d) the encryptor tool (fixed cost) e) POS slots/fuel 9 slots (adv. lab operation 4)(small POS Fuel cost = ~776,000/ 12.5 hour job)
total cost will be about: 275k + 33 Mill + 33 Mill + 4.7 mill = ~70.9 mill ~70.9/20 bpcs = ~ 3.54 mill/ jaguar BPC
These aren't exact numbers but will give an idea of how to figure out a cost per T2 BPC. I have yet to try to factor in the cost of doing this with decryptors.
Just showing the formula we use to help develop the cost of our Jaguars.
- Lord SPAM, Ripple Rock Mining Co.
CEO, Ripple Rock Mining Co. |
Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.03.30 12:12:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 30/03/2009 12:15:51 I've got a few things to chip in: There are two ways of looking at decryptor profitability: Fixed input: You have 10 bpcs to invent from. This applies most to people who buy T1 bpcs to invent from, but as blueprints copy and invent at a fixed rate it also applies to big inventors. Without decryptor at 30% you get on average 3 runs output, with 10 run decryptor you get 20% success rate but end up with 20 runs output (average). Per-ship, using the decryptors is probably lower profit than not, but (as long as there is enough profit per-ship left) with 20 ships to sell vs. 3 you make more TOTAL profit.
Fixed output: You know the market buys 30 ships per week, making more is pointless. This side applies most to inventors making rare and expensive ships, or new inventors planning to construct the ships they invent and who have limited capital. Without a decryptor at 30% success rate you need 100 bpcs and invention jobs to make those 30 ships. With a 10 run decryptor at 20% success rate you get those 30 ships with only 15 bpcs and invention jobs. That is a massive difference in input costs, but you could still end up making less profit due to having to buy 15 decryptors. On the other hand, depending on what you're inventing you might struggle to do a 100 copy job and 100 invention jobs in one week, and the only was you could match demand would be to take a slight profit hit per-ship and use the decryptors. nullnull
My sig is not my sig. |
Kaisa Kavaltaja
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Posted - 2009.03.30 13:12:00 -
[6]
Personally I would not look at the cost required to make the bpc, but the profit you'd gain by building the stuff from the bpc. You do need to take into account the additional work too, though.
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Kitchie
Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.30 13:13:00 -
[7]
If you're talking about market value of invented BPCs, one critical issue to take into account is the ME of the invented BPC.
You will see people who have used the +9 run decryptor to get a 10 run BPC but this BPC is usually worthless because a wastage factor of 70% on building a T2 ship usually eats any profit margin there may be.
Decryptors are too expensive to be worth using when inventing modules but on ships, they can make quite a difference and you should check what difference they make to ship production cost as well as invention cost.
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KingCappo
Seigers of Doom
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Posted - 2009.03.30 14:40:00 -
[8]
The market value of a T2 BPC should be somewhere between:
#1: the cost of producing the BPC (calculated in a prior post) #2: revenue from selling produced item - cost to produce that item (the manufacturing profits)
The least you are willing to sell it for is #1, and the most a manufacturer will by it for is #2. Competition in the market will adjust the price to within this range.
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.03.30 16:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: KingCappo The market value of a T2 BPC should be somewhere between:
#1: the cost of producing the BPC (calculated in a prior post) #2: revenue from selling produced item - cost to produce that item (the manufacturing profits)
The least you are willing to sell it for is #1, and the most a manufacturer will by it for is #2. Competition in the market will adjust the price to within this range.
And if they dip below this range?
Should I spend the capital to take them out?
Originally by: CCP Whisper Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.30 16:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dreamwalker
Originally by: KingCappo The market value of a T2 BPC should be somewhere between: #1: the cost of producing the BPC (calculated in a prior post) #2: revenue from selling produced item - cost to produce that item (the manufacturing profits) The least you are willing to sell it for is #1, and the most a manufacturer will by it for is #2. Competition in the market will adjust the price to within this range.
And if they dip below this range? Should I spend the capital to take them out?
Why would you want to waste ISK intentionally ? If your BPC cost is close to or higher than manufacture profits, you should have known better than to invent that BPC in the first place - either way you lost ISK, might as well minimize the loss.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
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Mari Katarin
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Posted - 2009.03.30 19:18:00 -
[11]
Also remember that invention output is approximately 2x the volume required for construction. In other words if the whole of eve universe consisted of one perfectly trained character, that character could invent at least 2x as many prints as they could manufacture.
The time to train an invention alt (4encryption/4adv. lab op/4/4 skills) is also shorter than a PE5/adv mass prod4/3/3 production alt.
The end result is invented BPCs are a surplus item. Anyone capable of manufacturing t2 can also invent all they need while producing, with plenty of product left over.
You can get a premium for t2 BPCs, but *only* if it's an item in a sudden high demand situation (read: immediately post price manipulation.) Most of the time the invented BPC will not move if it's priced much over invention probability * buy order pricing on datacores.
TL;DR - your question has no simple or easy answer.
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