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Rocky Patel
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:17:00 -
[1]
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:27:00 -
[2]
a bit more Data would be nice?
Why you think so?
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Rocky Patel
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:34:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Some Advisor a bit more Data would be nice?
Why you think so?
Sorry. Posted empty. Edited data in now.
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ashv'cezh
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:58:00 -
[4]
Yes, please do keep us informed of your progress. I was considering this same thing.
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:49:00 -
[5]
sounds interesting, and something like this i planned myself. The only Problem so far i dont know if and how i can repackage ships at a POS (ship maintenance bay i guess), we also do have a scenario using an ORCA as hauler with some gas extractor ships inside, so on the return trip he flys orca and i fly iteron V rigged for additional Loot when we move back to known Space.
Fresh Wormholes should have enough mass to let our whole stuff pass trough it with NP, so iam just waiting for the "perfect" WH to go on the next Journey :)
Survived the first trip and found a way back home after 6 days :P Loot included ^^
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Cuchulain Spartan
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:07:00 -
[6]
Large POS is a brave move, needing to move 100-150k m3 of fuel in a month will be rough, but do-able with the right group of friends. A good bunch of active players is essential.
well done, hope it pans out for ye. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:40:00 -
[7]
It's actually pretty easy in one of the "easy" w-space sites. Hell, a guy in my alliance does it with no one but himself and his alt, although it's not a large POS I don't think.
OP, I'd recommend checking one of the more dangerous w-space areas. With 3-4 people you very well could be able to handle them, you'd get less player interruption (I don't know if you have yet, but mining in shallow w-space is very risky), and the rewards would be significantly greater.
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Rocky Patel
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Rocky Patel on 24/03/2009 17:53:41 We keep a good eye on the directional scanner, and travel in packs. So pirates looking to pick off a T1 ship with modest load outs would have to travel covert while scanning folks down. They hit one ship and we'll just turtle, or load up in a PVP group and fight back using the POS as a safe haven.
Having an Orca is a god-send. It works for transporting, has good mining bonuses that work across the system helps.
With a regular hole into high sec, means that transporting is not as hard as I thought it would be. We got a few trips with the orca and BS's on day one. Since the POS is a safe spot, as long as you watch for ships at the WH to high-sec getting out and back in is trivial.
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Kuranta
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:20:00 -
[9]
My corp has a small POS in a class WH. Be aware that the sites do not spawn often and you might find yourself without anything but grav sites within 4-6 days and only 1-2 Anomalies and a ladar site per day spawning new.
That's my experience untill now, at least.
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Frobos
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Frobos on 24/03/2009 20:23:45 Question for OP...when trying to get back to the WHS your tower is in, how hard is it to find again? Do you just use the first WH leading to unknown space you find?
It sounds like to me that you will be spending a bunch of time (read days) just to find the tower again.
Edit: Assuming the WH collapses behind you that is. Especially with an cow like an Orca sucking up all the mass as it goes through!
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Mes Caline
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Posted - 2009.03.24 21:03:00 -
[11]
I am interested in joining your corp if you are recruiting!
hook me up ingame on this character if you want a 12mil SP combat character active in UK TZ!
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foobarx
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Posted - 2009.03.24 21:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cuchulain Spartan Large POS is a brave move, needing to move 100-150k m3 of fuel in a month will be rough, but do-able with the right group of friends. A good bunch of active players is essential.
well done, hope it pans out for ye.
That's three trips from a rigged Iteron V. Not so bad, I think. I'm wondering if I can get a freighter in through a wormhole. Sure, it would collapse the wormhole, but you'd have months and months before you needed fuel again.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: foobarx That's three trips from a rigged Iteron V. Not so bad, I think. I'm wondering if I can get a freighter in through a wormhole. Sure, it would collapse the wormhole, but you'd have months and months before you needed fuel again.
Yeah, I'd probably do the freighter if it were at all possible. I know NOSA put a sm pos up but took it down... we're not very industrial.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Nif Makria
Caldari Aquilan Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Frobos Edited by: Frobos on 24/03/2009 20:23:45 Question for OP...when trying to get back to the WHS your tower is in, how hard is it to find again? Do you just use the first WH leading to unknown space you find?
It sounds like to me that you will be spending a bunch of time (read days) just to find the tower again.
Edit: Assuming the WH collapses behind you that is. Especially with an cow like an Orca sucking up all the mass as it goes through!
yeah im interested in how you manage to find yuor way back INTO the WH - after the original entrance closes... or do you just BM the exit WH and use that until it collapes again? then someone inside the WH finds another exit etc? Be seeing you.... |
Marconi Bandr
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:44:00 -
[15]
Just to clarify for those asking about how you find the 'wormhole' or the tower again. They don't. They base from w-space. What they find periodically is High-Sec k-space to trade/resupply. As long as a critical mass of the corp is based in the wormhole to find the current 'exit' they have a conduit to trade and return.
Thank you very much for posting this. I'm interested in knowing how common this is. I've been in about 4 w-space systems and saw a POS in one of them. A little math based on that little data would suggest that there are 100s of POS up now? Probably more so in the class 1 and class 2 w-space systems.
I wondered if you ever venture into other w-space systems? If too many of you left the base system you might have trouble getting everyone back...
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:46:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Some Advisor on 24/03/2009 22:46:48 its just a premapped System thats not reachable via Stargates.
So iam expecting that in a bit of Time, you can find all sorts of "treasures" in wh-systems you just probed out (since the system is still the same, just the entry/exit points change) like abandonned ships, empty Towers and stuff :)
since there are like 2498 or so WH-Systems, there might be some Issues finding "your" WH-System... But over time, it will evolve. And you can build Spacestations... wondering who will build the First.
If i do it, i prolly name the Station "Sleeper Cell" :P
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:46:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Durzel on 24/03/2009 22:53:00
Originally by: Nif Makria
Originally by: Frobos Edited by: Frobos on 24/03/2009 20:23:45 Question for OP...when trying to get back to the WHS your tower is in, how hard is it to find again? Do you just use the first WH leading to unknown space you find?
It sounds like to me that you will be spending a bunch of time (read days) just to find the tower again.
Edit: Assuming the WH collapses behind you that is. Especially with an cow like an Orca sucking up all the mass as it goes through!
yeah im interested in how you manage to find yuor way back INTO the WH - after the original entrance closes... or do you just BM the exit WH and use that until it collapes again? then someone inside the WH finds another exit etc?
As long as you always have someone inside they can always probe out the latest WH to spawn, go through it and tell the rest of the corp where it is. That's how I imagine it would work anyway.
The only issue I can think of is when the only exit wormhole available takes you to low-sec or 0.0 - then I guess it's a calculated risk (or flat out impossible) to get your corp & POS supplies in.
It strikes me that POS installations in WH space would be safer than low-sec simply because the system benefits the incumbent far more than any aggressors. With regular low-sec POSs you can just hire a merc corp (or take it down yourself) safe in the knowledge you know exactly where it will be, when it will be defended, etc.
With WH space any fleet aiming to take down a POS has to first find a WH that leads to it, hope that it will allow enough mass in to actually get the job done, etc. And that assumes that the residents haven't already been working on collapsing any WHs that lead to their home system....
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.24 23:05:00 -
[18]
Out of curiosity, what do you find the respawn is like on plexes in the Wspace?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Buster Gonads
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Posted - 2009.03.24 23:39:00 -
[19]
This is great. But I'm still curious about how it actually works. I've scanned down a few WH but never travelled through one yet. If the wormhole collapses, you can find your way out, but may have to wait to find your way back in again from outside WH space? How hard, on average, is it to get a WH back to your spot? I mean if it's random and there are over 2k of them, surely the odds are you'll never find it again? Some more explanation would be great. Thanks.
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.03.25 00:30:00 -
[20]
from what i heard and understand.
There are 2497-2499 WH Systems roughly. There *should* be at least 1, up to 4 Wormholes per WH-System leading to somewhere (k-space, or other parts of wh-space).
Getting from Outside into the "specific" WH-System seems pretty hard.
Getting back to some interesting parts of k-Space should be much easier. Only took me like 6 Days to get out (wellw atned to stay for 3 days :P ) and find a suitable "network" of WH to get home... In the end we were desperate enough to go trough some Providence 0.0 and chased (waves to lasha. i made it out :P ). Inside Providence "jita" was 57 Jumps away, with about >30 jumps in deep shi^h^h^h0.0 Space. After finding another WH in Providence that leads to... 0.0 Providence (some shortcut), the jitacounter said "12 jumps" but 3 jumps farther was heavily bubbled (covops to check out surroundings). so.. back we went into WH and probed us another WH. This Time leading to lowsec (feel like friendly when coming from 0.0 :P ) and pretty close to my HomeSystem, so we went home finaly.
There is lots to Discover. Sure, sometimes you dont make the isk/hour ratio (pff youre BORING carebears :P) but having "just fun" with new stuff to play with (like escaping 0.0 and getting back home without blowing up and losing loot :P).
As of today, all the marketsellorders finished with about 400M from random ("everything") sold stuff found in WH-Space. If i remember correctly it was a "boring" Class 1 Wormhole system. So for the next trip i try Class 2-3 prolly, that might still be doable :P
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foobarx
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Posted - 2009.03.25 00:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Buster Gonads This is great. But I'm still curious about how it actually works. I've scanned down a few WH but never travelled through one yet. If the wormhole collapses, you can find your way out, but may have to wait to find your way back in again from outside WH space? How hard, on average, is it to get a WH back to your spot? I mean if it's random and there are over 2k of them, surely the odds are you'll never find it again? Some more explanation would be great. Thanks.
If the wormhole collapses, there will be another wormhole you can use to exit the W-space system. But you'll need a probe launcher and probes to find it. In all likelihood it will be many jumps from your original wormhole, so you'll have to do a bit of traveling to get back to your home system.
For example: Let's say you find a wormhole in the Bei system in Metropolis. You enter the wormhole to do a bit of ratting. Somebody after you enters with a fleet of battleships, exceeding the mass limit for that wormhole and closing it. You launch your probes, and after after locking down twenty crappy asteroid belts you find another wormhole, recall your probes, and jump through. But you're in the Yahyerer system in Aridia. So not only are you many jumps from where you entered, you're now in lowsec space and will probably be blown up by LeSkunk and his gang of malcontents on your way back to Bei.
What the corp of the original poster has done is moved in to the wormhole. When they exit the system (to get supplies or whatever), they'll try to use the same wormhole to get back in. But the possibility exists that wormhole will close. In my example a hauler that exited into Bei to pick up supplies would now have to travel to Yahyerer to get back to his corp or wait for a wormhole to open in a more convenient system. But most importantly, there's effectively no way he can get back to the same wormhole system unless there's someone inside probing for new exits - he has no way to know the new wormhole is in Yahyerer, and probing down a random wormhole will just give you a 1:2500 chance of getting back. If everyone in the corp were to leave the wormhole system they'd never find it again.
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GoingOffRoading
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Posted - 2009.03.25 00:51:00 -
[22]
Seems like a POS would be good in a class 1-3 MAYBE 4 WH. At least that way you get WH back to high or low sec space and you wont be warping to far out and dangerous 0.0 systems. Keep a few guys on the inside to find the ways out, last ship in and out should be oversized (cargo). Great idea
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Rocky Patel
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Posted - 2009.03.25 03:33:00 -
[23]
It would take quiet a force to take down our POS, certainly one much larger then you could fit through one wormhole. So basically you'd need to get 1/3 of your POS takedown force into the WH, Scan down a new exit to k-space. Pop out, fly the next 1/3 of your force there. /repeat.
Trust me, we watch the directional scanner pretty carefully, This would not go unnoticed.
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Buster Gonads
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Posted - 2009.03.25 08:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: foobarx But most importantly, there's effectively no way he can get back to the same wormhole system unless there's someone inside probing for new exits - he has no way to know the new wormhole is in Yahyerer, and probing down a random wormhole will just give you a 1:2500 chance of getting back. If everyone in the corp were to leave the wormhole system they'd never find it again.
Ok I understand now. Thanks for that.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:01:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 25/03/2009 10:04:25 VERY VERY Newbie questions:
I'd like to toy with a POS, because of the following premises:
- I will expand my mining operations (soonÖ) once I can field an Orca to support my other characters as my current indy is getting more and more "obsolete" to keep up with the volume mined (plus I want the other bonuses & defense).
- I have also both an industrialist and a research accounts I want to fully use. ATM they are parked in a friend's POS but I want to expand much more and use basically a whole POS for myself
- I want to train an alt to be a POS gunner anyway. The same alt could as well get some exploration skills and live in the WH and thus scan my other characters a way to-from it.
With the above I'd like advice about what you think would be better:
1) High sec medium POS. Pros: low-ish chance to be attacked unless wardecced, safe to mine around, "comfortable" to get to. Cons: only high sec roids available, overfarming (I need whole belts to grind, not half "used" scraps) and I want to expand to Zydrine "levels" ASAP. Can't install but some production arrays, can't harvest a moon.
2) WH POS. Pros: not really practical to attack once you setup a good defense. You can get more advanced roids and they will be more "private". Cons: can be attacked, rats can be nasty, need to train an alt to exploration instead of just using this char (which I need "free" to play with her PvP corp) skills.
And now comes what I don't know at all:
- what are the "rules" governing the roids / gravimetric sites in WH? Do high sec entrances WHs only provide for high sec minerals or also for some high end ones?
- What about moon harvesting and arrays? Do I have limits, i.e. high sec WH entrances => high sec limits on POSes or is it all free form like 0.0?
- How often do gravimetric sites spawn, since I suppose only there I'll find the better roids?
- What exact skills and minimum level of skills do I need to train the alt in order to have him scan the WH entrances from inside the WH? Basically I'd want to train the alt FAST so that he can detect the exits, setup everything, and then when I get time, comfortably train said alt to become better / quicker blah blah.
- What approx size are the roids / belts in high sec entrances WH systems? If they suck, I may go and try a low sec one.
- In case I need to move the finished ships (off my industrialist), are WH entrances usually "cheap" and close after 2-3 BCs or are them more tolerant of volume passing thru? I know they are variable, but in their variability I suppose they have an order of magnitude of what they allow thru them.
Thanks to anyone who will eventually bother with this post.
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Tractory
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Posted - 2009.03.25 10:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Some Advisor Edited by: Some Advisor on 24/03/2009 22:46:48 its just a premapped System thats not reachable via Stargates.
So iam expecting that in a bit of Time, you can find all sorts of "treasures" in wh-systems you just probed out (since the system is still the same, just the entry/exit points change) like abandonned ships, empty Towers and stuff :)
since there are like 2498 or so WH-Systems, there might be some Issues finding "your" WH-System... But over time, it will evolve. And you can build Spacestations... wondering who will build the First.
If i do it, i prolly name the Station "Sleeper Cell" :P
Station needs sov. There wont be a first person anytime soon
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Rocky Patel
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Posted - 2009.03.25 18:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 25/03/2009 10:04:25 - what are the "rules" governing the roids / gravimetric sites in WH? Do high sec entrances WHs only provide for high sec minerals or also for some high end ones?
- What about moon harvesting and arrays? Do I have limits, i.e. high sec WH entrances => high sec limits on POSes or is it all free form like 0.0?
- How often do gravimetric sites spawn, since I suppose only there I'll find the better roids?
- What exact skills and minimum level of skills do I need to train the alt in order to have him scan the WH entrances from inside the WH? Basically I'd want to train the alt FAST so that he can detect the exits, setup everything, and then when I get time, comfortably train said alt to become better / quicker blah blah.
- What approx size are the roids / belts in high sec entrances WH systems? If they suck, I may go and try a low sec one.
- In case I need to move the finished ships (off my industrialist), are WH entrances usually "cheap" and close after 2-3 BCs or are them more tolerant of volume passing thru? I know they are variable, but in their variability I suppose they have an order of magnitude of what they allow thru them.
There are many many mineable sites. I'm in a Frontier site which I think is the medium one reachable from High Sec. about 2 out of 3 are full of High sec ore.. Veld, scord, pyr, plag. about 1 out of 3 is low-sec, omber, jaspet, hed, etc. The roids are big enough and clustered enough to allow you to mine easily for hours, but see my comments above about rats.
You will need to have good scanning skills to find the wormholes, grav, ladar, magnetic and radar sites. This is detailed well in the exploration faqs. Without these, you will get stuck/lost and screwed. There a plenty of posts of people who got separated on the wrong side of a WH from a core probe launcher or a player with the needed skills. learn from thier mistakes.
The spawn rates are slow ATM. But I think general consensus is that they will get patched at some point, but its considered an issue ATM.
The exact mass limits for each type of WH are now known and I've seen posts on them. I think there is even an program that tells you based on the WH label.
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Gaius Aemilius
Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation
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Posted - 2009.03.25 19:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Marconi Bandr I'm interested in knowing how common this is. I've been in about 4 w-space systems and saw a POS in one of them. A little math based on that little data would suggest that there are 100s of POS up now? Probably more so in the class 1 and class 2 w-space systems.
Just adding to your statistics. Our colony has 3 POS up in a fairly deep layer of w-space. We've seen at least 4 other corps running POS during our surveying over the last week.
So the numbers are definitely up there. But not high enough that you'll find POS in more than a few systems. (and even less when you get below the boundary layer)
Good luck to all of us. Wormholes ate my sig.
They said it was yummy. |
Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.03.25 19:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tractory
Originally by: Some Advisor ... But over time, it will evolve. And you can build Spacestations... wondering who will build the First.
If i do it, i prolly name the Station "Sleeper Cell" :P
Station needs sov. There wont be a first person anytime soon
yes i know, but a devblog stated you *CAN* place/build stations in WH-Space.
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Frobos
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Posted - 2009.03.25 21:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rocky Patel ...We always know where the WH is, cause we live inside the WH-space now. Each day we scan down new exits and go out to see where they are...
Thanks for the clarification!
So now, for the next question...........is it worth it?!?
Is whatever you are acquiring from the WHS worth the number of hours invested for everyone involved? Assuming there is a minimum of three people running the project -- two inside the WHS and one doing logistics outside -- does it pay better than low/null sec or Empire activities?
I see that there are some lowsec minerals in place, but is Jaspet (which gives tiny amounts of Zydrine) worth this investment and risk?
Would not having everyone grind on missions, do hisec mining, or even some PVP make more ISK?
Granted, the fun factor is to be considered, but, I'm just curious about the ISK per hour for such an involved venture.
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