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Silence Duegood
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:06:00 -
[1]
So, after starting this thread in the Assembly Hall... I started thinking - 'Why exactly does CCP choose periods of time measured in eons to make balance changes?'
After a few drinks tonight I thought it might be best to simply take a poll. Perhaps gathering the informed opinions of other folks might help me answer this problem.
Why do you think CCP takes so long to make balance changes?
A. Hookers B. Blow C. Beer (this is my personal guess) D. The Fishtank E. The local Hßkarl buffet F. All of the above at the same time
Let's hear your opinions!
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Gneeznow
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:12:00 -
[2]
they spent too much time doing productive things like breaking the galaxy map, making terrible fitting screens and making things like ''shop fronts'' which then get dropped to deal with the minor issue that is game balance /whine
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Diek Ran
Amarr Autonums
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:17:00 -
[3]
G The word balance has completely lost its meaning. It happens to occur in almost every thread and is mainly used to create the impression that the statement made will help achieve some sort of global justice, no matter how subjective it really is.
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Silence Duegood
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:21:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gneeznow they spent too much time doing productive things like breaking the galaxy map, making terrible fitting screens and making things like ''shop fronts'' which then get dropped to deal with the minor issue that is game balance /whine
Damn, you bring up a good point that pretty much shoots down my wholea rgument! Remember that bad ass, bright red 'STOP' sign we had to stop your ship, the one that lasted something like a week? Changes like that obviously show such dedication to tackling the important issues that game balance really can take a back seat!
Thanks for the reminder.
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Taedrin
Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Silence Duegood So, after starting this thread in the Assembly Hall... I started thinking - 'Why exactly does CCP choose periods of time measured in eons to make balance changes?'
After a few drinks tonight I thought it might be best to simply take a poll. Perhaps gathering the informed opinions of other folks might help me answer this problem.
Why do you think CCP takes so long to make balance changes?
A. Hookers B. Blow C. Beer (this is my personal guess) D. The Fishtank E. The local Hßkarl buffet F. All of the above at the same time
Let's hear your opinions!
They have probably specifically avoided commenting on that particular issue because it is a charged topic. The wrong statement will have horrible effect. Most likely, all Devs, ISD and GMs have been forbidden from commenting on the issue until management can synthesize the proper PR statement which upper management feels will defuse the situation.
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Wang Ping
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:41:00 -
[6]
Please contact your nearest Band Of Brothers Relocated public relations officer with your most pressing balance related issues.
For a small one time management fee they will be happy to request dev intervention during the next scheduled batphone conference.
Have yourself a smashing day!
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:43:00 -
[7]
F.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Do you know what a soldier is, young man? He's the chap who makes it possible for civilized folk to despise war. |
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Joss Sparq
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:45:00 -
[8]
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Taedrin
Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler F.
curse you Wrangler! I could have sworn that I was right
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.24 06:00:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 24/03/2009 06:06:03 Perhaps if CCP made their progress and objectives more transparent, we wouldn't get the impression that they are just sitting around breaking things.
I don't know anything about CCP to be honest. I dont know their work philosophy or even the average age of their employees.
But when I read about one of their own dishonestly favoring a particular alliance, I got the impression that they are just a bunch of kids. Albeit kids with degrees in various aspects of computer science, but still kids.
My biggest concern is that CCP will become complacent and feel EVE is as good as it can get (because they say so). and becuase there really is NO OTHER competitor.
I hate fantasy games. Sci-fi has always been my thing. I was hooked on the first Privateer, and EVE is as close to it as you can get.
EDIT: see: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1031553
If you notice the first thing they wish to test out is "combat." There is no mention of any other bug fixes, which makes you think that EVE will always be first and foremost a pew-pew game. Everything else (balance) takes a back seat and they will get to it when they want to.
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Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.03.24 06:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Neo Omni Edited by: Neo Omni on 24/03/2009 06:06:03
But when I read about one of their own dishonestly favoring a particular alliance, I got the impression that they are just a bunch of kids.
dude seriously, its called goon propaganda, don't believe what you read on CAOD
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Neo Omni
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.24 06:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Neo Omni on 24/03/2009 06:40:17 Edited by: Neo Omni on 24/03/2009 06:39:28
Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
Originally by: Neo Omni Edited by: Neo Omni on 24/03/2009 06:06:03
But when I read about one of their own dishonestly favoring a particular alliance, I got the impression that they are just a bunch of kids.
dude seriously, its called goon propaganda, don't believe what you read on CAOD
Originally by: wikipedia Developer misconduct
Since the release of Eve Online, there have been instances of developer misconduct, leading to debates and controversy within the Eve community. On February 9, 2007, a player known as ********** revealed that an Eve Online developer nicknamed 't20' had provided his alliance, Band of Brothers, with ten valuable blueprints, giving them an advantage over competing alliances.[74] Some within the Eve Online community asked for t20's dismissal. While an apology letter was left for the community in the form of a dev blog, he remains an Eve Online developer. ********** was permanently banned from the Eve universe for violating the game's Terms of Service and End-user License Agreement.[74]
In response to public concerns, CCP decided to set up an Internal Affairs division headed by Ari Eldon, better known in-game as Arkanon, whose responsibility is to monitor the activities of both privileged and player accounts operated by CCP staff in-game. The impartiality of the division has been at times questioned.[75][76]
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_online
Well is it true or not?
EDIT: Interesting how the player's name is filtered out huh?
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.03.24 08:37:00 -
[13]
Becuase they know a lot better than the whiners a lot of the time, so they just ignore the whines for a while hoping they'll go away (which they normally do) this can make it look like they're slow to change anything, when in fact they're slow to agree with the whiney *****es.
Also when they do decide a change is nessisary after properly looking at the issue, they take they're time about it so that they get it right and don't create the standard mmo cycle of nerfs and buffs.
And finally cus its they're game and they can take as long as they like.
Which of your whines have they not implemented yet then?
...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:14:00 -
[14]
Because balance doesn't sound as bad as it actually is. Take in point falcons. When you talk about falcons, oh they do just do ewar and have no tank, but when you get perma jammed from 200km while overheating your ECCM II and have no recourse, you cannot describe that to a bunch of drunk programmers effectively.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Melor Rend
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Posted - 2009.03.24 09:27:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Melor Rend on 24/03/2009 09:34:17 Edited by: Melor Rend on 24/03/2009 09:28:12
Originally by: Neo Omni EDIT: Interesting how the player's name is filtered out huh?
I wonder why CCP takes the time to add an ex-players name to the profanity filter.. very interesting indeed... Is there a register at CCP with undesirables to determine when people will be added to the filter?
Sounds a bit like "reverse correct infospeak" to me.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:11:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Glengrant on 24/03/2009 11:13:37 <rant> Rule number 1 of gaming: Most gamers have no clue about game design. They see an issue that is important to them, come up with a strong opinion and cling to it no matter what.
Game design is complicated already when we're talking about a boardgame. It's science with magic rituals when we get to a big MMO. Having a MMO fully balanced is like non-trivial software getting totally bugfree - not going to happen. If it were to happen by divine fiat one day - it would only hold until the next feature expansion.
Further - even if it is known that a feature has a balancing problem you have to be careful about how you fix it. The devil is in the detail and the cure can be worse than the disease if you don't tread very carefully.
The best we can ever hope for is a state of constant almost-mostly-balanced-with-a-few-issues-here-and-there. And even that will messed up a bit after every big patch.
Your favourite ship/setup doesn't work anymore like it used to? So what - get another one. There's so many of them and it's not *that* hard. Heck - get the ship you whine about being overpowered (of course you'll then later whine that it got nerfed - after CCP listened to your whines about it being overpowered ;-) ).
Granted - I'm getting a bit tired of all you whining armchair designers with your "obvious" solutions.
Feel free to call me a CCP fanboi - because - to some small degree - I am. :-) I love that they managed to resist hordes of whiners and clueless wannabe designers for almost 6 years now. I like the overall game design decisions they make (well - not every single one :-) - but in general).
Some stuff breaks for a week or 2 after big expansion? Boohoo - big deal. Get over it.
p.s. "Neo Omni" you're a troll or you're an <self-censored>. It's true that a CCP employee cheated. Once, years ago. Whether that actually made a big difference to BoB success can be (and has been) debated ad nauseam. But it is stupid to condemn the whole company for the action of a single guy. You'll have a bad egg or a couple stupid f*ck ups in every organization. If you believe otherwise you must be confused because what are you still doing here? Quit! Now! Don't give money to a company that you despise. Otherwise you are just a troll. </rant>
Rants like this are usually not my style - but this constant barrage of stupid myopic threads got to me. I should have listened to myself and ignore it. :-) --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Reiisha
Evolution Band of Brothers Reloaded
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Glengrant
Rule number 1 of gaming: Most gamers have no clue about game design. They see an issue that is important to them, come up with a strong opinion and cling to it no matter what.
Game design is complicated already when we're talking about a boardgame. It's science with magic rituals when we get to a big MMO. Having a MMO fully balanced is like non-trivial software getting totally bugfree - not going to happen. If it were to happen by divine fiat one day - it would only hold until the next feature expansion.
Further - even if it is known that a feature has a balancing problem you have to be careful about how you fix it. The devil is in the detail and the cure can be worse than the disease if you don't tread very carefully.
The best we can ever hope for is a state of constant almost-mostly-balanced-with-a-few-issues-here-and-there. And even that will messed up a bit after every big patch.
Your favourite ship/setup doesn't work anymore like it used to? So what - get another one. There's so many of them and it's not *that* hard. Heck - get the ship you whine about being overpowered (of course you'll then later whine that it got nerfed - after CCP listened to your whines about it being overpowered ;-) ).
Granted - I'm getting a bit tired of all you whining armchair designers with your "obvious" solutions.
Feel free to call me a CCP fanboi - because - to some small degree - I am. :-) I love that they managed to resist hordes of whiners and clueless wannabe designers for almost 6 years now. I like the overall game design decisions they make (well - not every single one :-) - but in general).
Some stuff breaks for a week or 2 after big expansion? Boohoo - big deal. Get over it.
p.s. "Neo Omni" you're a troll or you're an <self-censored>. It's true that a CCP employee cheated. Once, years ago. Whether that actually made a big difference to BoB success can be (and has been) debated ad nauseam. But it is stupid to condemn the whole company for the action of a single guy. You'll have a bad egg or a couple stupid f*ck ups in every organization. If you believe otherwise you must be confused because what are you still doing here? Quit! Now! Don't give money to a company that you despise. Otherwise you are just a troll. </rant>
Rants like this are usually not my style - but this constant barrage of stupid myopic threads got to me. I should have listened to myself and ignore it. :-)
+1 on all counts.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Silence Duegood
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Silence Duegood on 24/03/2009 16:07:19
Originally by: Glengrant Edited by: Glengrant on 24/03/2009 11:13:37 <rant> Rule number 1 of gaming: Most gamers have no clue about game design. They see an issue that is important to them, come up with a strong opinion and cling to it no matter what.
Game design is complicated already when we're talking about a boardgame. It's science with magic rituals when we get to a big MMO. Having a MMO fully balanced is like non-trivial software getting totally bugfree - not going to happen. If it were to happen by divine fiat one day - it would only hold until the next feature expansion.
Further - even if it is known that a feature has a balancing problem you have to be careful about how you fix it. The devil is in the detail and the cure can be worse than the disease if you don't tread very carefully.
The best we can ever hope for is a state of constant almost-mostly-balanced-with-a-few-issues-here-and-there. And even that will messed up a bit after every big patch.
Your favourite ship/setup doesn't work anymore like it used to? So what - get another one. There's so many of them and it's not *that* hard. Heck - get the ship you whine about being overpowered (of course you'll then later whine that it got nerfed - after CCP listened to your whines about it being overpowered ;-) ).
Granted - I'm getting a bit tired of all you whining armchair designers with your "obvious" solutions.
Feel free to call me a CCP fanboi - because - to some small degree - I am. :-) I love that they managed to resist hordes of whiners and clueless wannabe designers for almost 6 years now. I like the overall game design decisions they make (well - not every single one :-) - but in general).
Some stuff breaks for a week or 2 after big expansion? Boohoo - big deal. Get over it.
p.s. "Neo Omni" you're a troll or you're an <self-censored>. It's true that a CCP employee cheated. Once, years ago. Whether that actually made a big difference to BoB success can be (and has been) debated ad nauseam. But it is stupid to condemn the whole company for the action of a single guy. You'll have a bad egg or a couple stupid f*ck ups in every organization. If you believe otherwise you must be confused because what are you still doing here? Quit! Now! Don't give money to a company that you despise. Otherwise you are just a troll. </rant>
Rants like this are usually not my style - but this constant barrage of stupid myopic threads got to me. I should have listened to myself and ignore it. :-)
Darth Vadar - 'The fanboi is strong in this one.' Emperor Palpatine - 'Oh, wow, and I thought that smell was the hakarl.'
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Drunk Driver
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Silence Duegood So, after starting this thread in the Assembly Hall... I started thinking - 'Why exactly does CCP choose periods of time measured in eons to make balance changes?'
After a few drinks tonight I thought it might be best to simply take a poll. Perhaps gathering the informed opinions of other folks might help me answer this problem.
Why do you think CCP takes so long to make balance changes?
A. Hookers B. Blow C. Beer (this is my personal guess) D. The Fishtank E. The local Hßkarl buffet F. All of the above at the same time
Let's hear your opinions!
After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that rats and cats don't mix.
The cat is too big to fit in the blender.
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Grek Forto
Malevolent Intentions Dark Solar Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.24 17:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Glengrant Stuff
This! Btw, I'm quoting this.
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler F.
Right on. What's the point of being successful if you can't get crazy once in awhile?
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Sleepkevert
Amarr Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.24 18:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler F.
Best, letter, EVER _
Add your own line! |
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