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CAREBEAR SPY
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:54:00 -
[1]
Hello, all. I know that some of my recent actions have come off as being trolling but, I assure you, they are(/were) not. So many people play this game and we all come from such different backgrounds. It should be no suprise, then, that we all have such different ideas for how we want the game to unfold. Pirates want all of the EVE universe to be avaible for PVP. Carebears want all to be for mission running and mining. I, personally, fall into the latter category.
I would like to see a end to this charade of null sec and a beginning to a vast and wonderful golden age of industry. The Carebear Age, if you will. And what better way to accomplish this than by expanding CONCORD into null sec? The resources--mercoxit, arkonor, etc.--will be there for the mining! And all under the safe protection of CONCORD.
Again, this is no troll. I have been to null sec more than a few times and I have been blown up more than I care to count. It is offensive, really. The lot of people there have no sense of respect and even less of a sense of decency. It is all about the, ehh, 'pew-pew' for I have met only a few civil enough to let a unarmed lady pass by in a meager Ibis. Well, I declare that this should end now! So, here is my response to the gross accusations against me. . .
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CAREBEAR SPY
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:55:00 -
[2]
I should like to begin by noting the forum rules relevant. In particular, number 7, which states succinctly, "Trolling is prohibited." This is described as:
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.
It seems to me that there are two parts to this, a conditional and a implication. The conditional consists of two parts: the angering of players and/or the insulting of players. I shall, to the benefit of CCP, insert the "or" which will merely require that only one of those two conditions be met. The implication is that posts that either anger or insult (or both) the players are disruptive and should be eliminated probably by locking the thread and permabanning the account.
I will attempt to argue that my post/thread does not satisfy the conditionals (in any reasonable manner) and, thus, should not be deleted under the argument of trolling.
I shall begin. In my post I clearly stated a idea: CONCORD should be expanded to include more territory. Furthermore, I gave a story-based mechanism by which this may be achieved: CONCORD entering null sec in stages requiring the resident occupants to defend the system from CONCORD. Thus, the post was not contentless and had some goal (mainly, expanding the influence of CONCORD and, consequently, high/low sec).
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CAREBEAR SPY
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:55:00 -
[3]
With that established, we must assess whether or not the conditionals were satisfied. I shall begin with the second conditional: a post should not be insulting to the players. This is a very touchy subject for in dealing with this, we must consider the players feelings. In this thread, the expansion of CONCORD may indeed come off as insulting to a number of players--particularly null sec residents. This might be due to the fact that null sec residents consider themselves superior political figures relative to the governing ability of CONCORD and so any expansion of CONCORD (particularly at their expense) may be seen as a gross affront to their managerial abilities. But this is a silly application of the antitrolling rule.
If these sorts of feelings were always taken into account, then the system would never be changed. For example, take the recent introduction of welcome pages into practically every window of EVE. If some person had come on to the forums to suggest such a thing, then by your very application of the rule, the post would be deemed a troll since it was a insult to the more experienced people of EVE and their ability to navigate through the game (particularly if Welcome Pages were suggested to be enabled by default, as they are).
So, we must find some other way that the post is insulting to players. At no point in the post (that the above mentioned) do I insult, disparage, or otherwise discriminate against either any one person or any group of players. One may read into the statement that CONCORD enjoys power just as any other person or group of people as being insulting. But such a statement is hardly cause for any reasonable accusations of insult for this would be no different than to say that the Caldari enjoy large megacorporations and (supposedly, though I am not sure how it goes together) economic efficiency or that the Ammar enjoy enslaving the Minmitar. All of these statements are founded in the story itself. For this, I quote both the description and the chronicle relating to CONCORD. In particular, that "The empires havenĘt been bothered to interfere with this development as, on the whole, CONCORD is doing its job very well and there have been no major cases of abused power. But many fear that this may change one day."
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CAREBEAR SPY
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:56:00 -
[4]
So, we are left with the first conditional: angering the players. Again, I can see how such a drastic and, potentially, far reaching proposal could get some people--particularly the ones inhabiting the null sec border of low sec--quite angry. After all, CONCORD will be taking territory that "belongs" to them and giving it to the general public. I, too, would be outraged if the large hands of government came into my own home, pillaged that of no value, and carried off everything else of interest! But let us inject some reason into the whole matter: CONCORD attacking null-sec is just a idea posted to the forums for the purpose of debate. Surely, we should not take such a silly approach to defining anger. In many proposals for change, there will be winners and losers. To delete a idea that is up for discussion from the agenda solely on the basis of the fact that some people who just happen to be the losers in that idea are a bit angry is no good management.
As before, I believe that this is best taken with a example so consider the speed nerf. Before the massive speed nerf (or, as CCP calls it, the "speed rebalancing") ships were allowed to travel at 'obscene speeds' which were 'completely unintentional'. Now, if one were to notice this and post a thread about the matter in the forums and proposing one of many possible solutions--that speed be reduced across the board--then this would be sure to anger a great many people (as the whole matter, in fact, did). In particular, those that would be angered by the original topic would probably be the same ones who relied on such speeds of 'eightfold the base' in the first place and, so, by some silly logic, the thread gets locked and the whole speed nerf never happens.
Thus, the CONCORD expansion proposal is bound to be insulting to some and make others quite angry. This is true. But to declare it a troll on the pure basis of such criteria is absurd. One must look at the reasonability of such anger and insults. Is it reasonable to consider a secondary implication of the proposal (here, the supposed inferior management capabilities of the null sec residents) a true insult? Is it reasonable to consider the anger that may surface from this proposal (here, the taking away of systems from null sec residents) true and worthy anger? I think that the answer to both questions is 'no, it is not' and it is my hope that you also see it as such. Thank you for your valuable time in this matter.
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SodiumCyanide
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:57:00 -
[5]
Jade Constantine alt spotted
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:57:00 -
[6]
Experts are calling this an overused meme
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Ikathis sihtaki
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:58:00 -
[7]
wow. i think you were supposed to post on that forum...
<--- That'a'way is sub cancellation, and about three clicks through your browser and you should be able to reactivate your wow sub.
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2009.03.23 23:59:00 -
[8]
Bring back the old CAREBEAR SPY
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:03:00 -
[9]
CAREBEAR SPY U NOT TROLLIN'
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente Shadowsun Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zeba CAREBEAR SPY U NOT TROLLIN'
Oh you motherfrakker.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:06:00 -
[11]
Wat?
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
CAREBEAR SPY
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Bring back the old CAREBEAR SPY
aww, sug, thx! i luv u 2 hon! lets just hope the mods see reason and then we kin all get bak 2 teh status quo :)
hugs n kisses
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:33:00 -
[13]
Ok, fine, it wasn't trolling, it was pointless drivel. Happier now ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Kalissa Dauntless
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: SodiumCyanide Jade Constantine alt spotted
Goonrage spotted
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2009.03.24 00:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kalissa Dauntless
Originally by: SodiumCyanide Jade Constantine alt spotted
Goonrage spotted
Now that's trolling
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CAREBEAR SPY
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Originally by: Kalissa Dauntless
Originally by: SodiumCyanide Jade Constantine alt spotted
Goonrage spotted
Now that's trolling
lol yeah who is jade constatine? i gotta name i poost under teh forums under with clever n witty stuff. i was gonna post this on tehse forums w/ that name but it was too linked w/ this name. lol but in retro i guess i couldda done a in defense of cbs thread lol. silly :P
hugs n kisses
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minerboob
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:16:00 -
[17]
liar, 90% of people on this board are trolling. I hate it.
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: minerboob liar, 90% of people on this board are trolling. I hate it.
Stop trolling
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minerboob
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Originally by: minerboob liar, 90% of people on this board are trolling. I hate it.
Stop trolling
Point made?
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: minerboob
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Originally by: minerboob liar, 90% of people on this board are trolling. I hate it.
Stop trolling
Point made?
Quite possibly though i hardly count myself as 90% of posters.
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CAREBEAR SPY
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:52:00 -
[21]
if people wanna call wat i do trollin im fine w/ that. i just list my ideas out n i like 2 get sum feedback n ultimately hope ccp takes notice. i was slightly offended applebee just flat out called me a troll like that but i just write my mind. i dont think 90% of people is troolls not in teh forum definit anyways. i mean ****on people just write their mind! example...
troll: ur stupid NOT troll: concord outta be beefed up so gankage cant happen
99% of people fall in2 teh NOT troll category i think. but thatsa just me. i just wish applebee woulda understand that.
luv ya all hugs n kisses
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Roku Kotaki
Kotaki Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.03.24 03:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CAREBEAR SPY Hello, all. I know that some of my recent actions have come off as being trolling but, I assure you, they are(/were) not. So many people play this game and we all come from such different backgrounds... <and more intelligible words>
If you can actually type like that, why don't you?
Originally by: CAREBEAR SPY <drivel> 99% of people fall in2 teh NOT troll category i think. but thatsa just me. i just wish applebee woulda understand that.
luv ya all hugs n kisses
Because, typing like this is probably why you are being considered a troll...
/my .02 isk _____
Looking for an excellent industrial corp?
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Armoured C
Gallente Armoured Investments
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Posted - 2009.03.24 03:48:00 -
[23]
o/ dododododoooooooo *wooosh*
someone called for a forum troll ?
join from 10,000 isk per share
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CAREBEAR SPY
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Posted - 2009.03.24 10:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Roku Kotaki
Originally by: CAREBEAR SPY Hello, all. I know that some of my recent actions have come off as being trolling but, I assure you, they are(/were) not. So many people play this game and we all come from such different backgrounds... <and more intelligible words>
If you can actually type like that, why don't you?
Originally by: CAREBEAR SPY <drivel> 99% of people fall in2 teh NOT troll category i think. but thatsa just me. i just wish applebee woulda understand that.
luv ya all hugs n kisses
Because, typing like this is probably why you are being considered a troll...
/my .02 isk
lol i cant help the way i write. its like how i speak sug. after so many years its become second nature. but ur free to translate in2 perfect english 4 me. ;)
hugs n kisses
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Sturdy Girl
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:11:00 -
[25]
People might think you're a troll, simply because your idea is grossly offensive to people who actually like Eve, rather than space-mining online.
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AkRoYeR
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.24 11:13:00 -
[26]
First, stating your opinion is not trolling. Second, people who call you a troll when you post something are usually the worst offenders.
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Trig Onami
Caldari Onami Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:24:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Trig Onami on 24/03/2009 15:26:03 Edited by: Trig Onami on 24/03/2009 15:24:55 To OP:
I agree with you on how people are using the "omfg troll" button a little too quickly when those of us who have nothing but decent intentions with posting an opinion for discussion. You also have to factor in that it's also based on the direction the thread is going.
Moderators are forced to use their intuition in these cases. While you may not personally agree with the moderator's decision, it's final, and there's nothing you can do about it. This is why I don't post on the forums. Because being myself usually leads to exactly what happened to you.
This has happened to me in every single forum I've ever set foot in. Not sure what it is about my personality that makes people cringe, but I've learned to avoid posting alltogether. I do have many ideas I would love to convey to the masses, but from experience, I'd rather still have the ability to view other people's opinions and just mutter my own responses to myself. Maybe even create my own audience consisting of multiple personalities that clash against eachother, just like what you've seen on the forums here.
When I get tired of hearing myself, I just bring out the "omfg troll" personality, and voila, the discussion ends, before having time to mature into what could have been something great.
Such is life.
Edited typos. EVE. The most ambitious project on earth. |
Jamyl TashMurkon
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Armoured C o/ dododododoooooooo *wooosh*
someone called for a forum troll ?
aww my main is banned for a week or so
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Agent Known
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Originally by: minerboob
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Originally by: minerboob liar, 90% of people on this board are trolling. I hate it.
Stop trolling
Point made?
Quite possibly though i hardly count myself as 90% of posters.
97% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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Trig Onami
Caldari Onami Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.24 15:31:00 -
[30]
25% of real trolls get away with it. EVE. The most ambitious project on earth. |
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