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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:14:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ricdic on 13/03/2009 17:15:03 Hey guys,
I am setting up an expedition for WH space, basically to setup a POS with the whole works. Production facilities and 3 months of fuel. Whilst out there I will be placing a couple of cans advising to contact me if one gets stuck where I can provide ships etc fitted with probe launchers etc, combat vessels and the likes. Ultimately it would allow anyone in my wormhole to know they had a way out one way or another.
Now a new form of trade could be introduced, for example people coming in with probers before they bring their fleets, they could offer POS fuel in return for alien artificats.
One of the key difficulties with WH space would be refuelling. You find an exit WH and leave only to find you can't get back in because the WH closed. Instead a way to counter this is to jump out in a pod (very low mass), and find where you are located. Once done send your industrial alt (from empire) to the WH location and have them jump in with the fuel. That way you are never disconnected from your POS.
With 3 months fuel at a time it is almost guaranteed you will find quite a few exit wormholes to get this system working. In the meantime you keep ratting/doing sites etcand build up a big stockpile in your POS, trading to those heading in and out of newly formed holes. (for example, someone comes in with industrial, buys some of your alien artifcats, and takes them right back out where they came from.
Ultimately it would be a way for trade to occur without you ever needing to actually leave your space.
I already spent a couple of days in WH space and found the hardest thing was logistics. My raven ran out of cruise missiles and my prober pilot was destroyed by rats (didnt warp out in time). With a system as proposed above your ship could be replaced, your missiles could be refilled etc.
A small secure can at a key point (say a moon or planet) would allow people to see you are offering this service and not feel stuck in their similar situations.
Anyway that's my grand idea, what do you guys think? With enough people setup in this kind of fashion it could create a wormhole network hub of sorts. Once I am operational I may look at having my empire alt setup a Wormhole Expedition shop on the sell order forums. Basically an Orca/Jump Freighter etc with all the necessary stuff to build your own franchise of sorts. It would ultimately build a trust base as that would always be a concern for travellers (warp to me at Planet 1 and I will trade you x for y) and really it's in the best interests of both parties.
Discussion? |
Ginako
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:17:00 -
[2]
So its like a Gas Station in the Middle of the Nevada Desert? --------------
Flying Minmatar is like strapping yourself to an office chair and firing Uzi's as you roll down a flight of stairs! |
Northern Fall
Minmatar Guild Navy
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:17:00 -
[3]
In Theory this could be a great idea, although the idea of someone capitalising W-space kinda breaks the immersion
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:35:00 -
[4]
I'll start carrying around some enriched uranium and robotics just in case I find you...
MDD
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:35:00 -
[5]
There are thousands of W-Space locations so thousands of retail opportunities .
Imagine a big enough network to cover even 25% of the wormholes out there. You (as an empire trader) would find an open hole, pop in with pod and see the Network Hub sign (or a can in this case), then pop back to your empire system, grab your iteron Mk5 with cargo expanders, pop in, do trade (pos fuel for alien stuffs or even pos fuel for cash) then go back home. If the WH was closed and you done a trade for cash you could just sell us your Iteron and pod jump home .
But really, if you found me online you could be in and out in industrial (in with fuel, out with alien stuffs) within a matter of minutes almost entirely removing your risk |
Matharos
Dark Canyon Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:46:00 -
[6]
Sounds very cool, but with 2500 w-space systems out there what kind of traffic do you expect?
It could be a very long time before someone comes to your system.
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Tordel Takuri
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:49:00 -
[7]
Eve mail me ingame with what you need from me on this....starting 1 week from tommorow ima be heading out in a abbadon for 2 weeks+ before coming to K space, i could start dropping cans or something adverting for you or whatnot, so yeah, evemail me
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Kiviar
Caldari Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:55:00 -
[8]
Advertising your POS filled with t3 salvage, ships, and other goodies is just begging for someone to bring in a fleet to tear it down and cart off your gear.
Yes, it would take a bit of work to do, but, if the profit is right, people will do it. ---
Certified elite hull tanker. |
Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:55:00 -
[9]
In my 2 days in WH space I met about 8 different people.
Anyway remember the retail sector is more of a service for those stranded or in need of supplies. You still have your POS there, you can scan down all your sites, harvest gas for hours on end, mine veldspar and other ores to build up stockpiles for replacement ships etc. You wouldn't just sit back waiting for customers.
Also you may find people renting secure cans off you or even doing their own thing in the system then selling you their proceeds.
Example. Person shows up in W-Space in a Raven. Does some killing then wants to leave but the outbound WH leads nowhere. You offer to purchase his fitted raven and the goods he garnished from the system so he can pod himself home after profiting in the wormhole.
On the other end of the scale traders will also come through looking to buy your wares for resale/production etc in empire.
I think it could actually work with basically all parties seeing a benefit to the service. I make profit in W-Space and have my own safe haven, ratters have a supply depot, ninja explorers see my sign, grab indy and pick up my wares before their own WH closes so they profit off higher resale costs in empire.
I can't really see any negatives to the system and I don't actually think it's as complex as some may believe.
2 small secure containers: JOIN CHANNEL "535366 System" For supplies and trade
Anyone scanning (which will of course be everyone in wormhole space) will see the cans and be immediately made aware of the services and options available. (channel would have an MOTD stating various prices, offerings etc with maybe forum link to sell orders showing a trustworthy organisation). |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:00:00 -
[10]
In another thread, I posed a similiar idea, and I agree, lug a POS, 3mo of fuel and a few ships in, there is no reason you can't keep the thing running.
With respect to always being able to find an exit - it's doable, but still possibly tough. Imagine first month you exit right into empire, second month, your exit isn't direct, but requires you go though another wormhole, or possibly two, third month, you exit in Stain, fourth month - Branch. You get the idea.
As long as you're committed to the logistics of it - it is doable. My experience is though, that logistics tends to wear you down.
Another question, is there ice in W-space? I've also heard the rats die down, once the first wormhole closes. Can someone confirm there are no moon materials in W-space?
Some other thoughts, include can production be done? If there are no moon materials, what other purpose would the POS provide other than a home-base?
Having said all of that - though fraught with challenges, I very much like the idea of trying to live in W-space just for the experience.
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Nova Satar
Annihilate.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:01:00 -
[11]
i'm not sure this will work, but it wounds really cool.
so gl!
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kiviar Advertising your POS filled with t3 salvage, ships, and other goodies is just begging for someone to bring in a fleet to tear it down and cart off your gear.
Yes, it would take a bit of work to do, but, if the profit is right, people will do it.
The idea would be for it to not be filled with those things Keep trade running and you aren't holding huge stockpiles. We go back to the standard bartering system.
Ratter: Hi I need 3,000 cruise missiles Retailer: What do you have as payment? Salvage, Isk or Fuel?
Oh and in regards to the fleet attacking they may find once done that they run out of ammo and need to purchase it off me or have no way out when their wormhole closes A POS with decent defence would be required however I don't expect we will be seeing a lot of major POS warfare. (Thats not to say I haven't bought up a fair bit of offensive and defensive POS modules)
It's incredibly easy for a fleet to get stuck, especially bigger ships or even to get stranded away from the rest of the fleet (2 warp through whilst the other caps are left at a collapsed hole etc)
So i won't discredit the possibility however if the operation had a good mixture of supply and demand I don't see it being of concern. |
Nova Satar
Annihilate.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:02:00 -
[13]
i'm not sure this will work, but it sounds really cool.
so gl!
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:05:00 -
[14]
Of course, there's always the people who want to er...profit from other people who are stopping in to pick up stuff.
It's the Old Wild West all over again. ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Originally by: CCP Fallout
And yelling is bad. It makes the baby Jesus cry and when the baby Jesus cries I'm forced to lock threads |
Morlar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:07:00 -
[15]
It's freaking Deadwood.
I love the idea.
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Ginako
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Agent Unknown Of course, there's always the people who want to er...profit from other people who are stopping in to pick up stuff.
It's the Old Wild West all over again.
This is why we need Cowboy hats as an EVE portrait accessory.
and Beards... Seriously WHERE are all the beards!? --------------
Flying Minmatar is like strapping yourself to an office chair and firing Uzi's as you roll down a flight of stairs! |
KarGard
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Eventy One
Another question, is there ice in W-space? I've also heard the rats die down, once the first wormhole closes. Can someone confirm there are no moon materials in W-space?
Some other thoughts, include can production be done? If there are no moon materials, what other purpose would the POS provide other than a home-base?
Dev blog has stated no moon minerals, Haven't found any ice so far, and doubt its there.
As for what good they are? Well I imagine that they will become an alternative for Highsec corps who want to set up POSes, but don't have the manpower to protect a lowsec operation.
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Eventy One With respect to always being able to find an exit - it's doable, but still possibly tough.
There is always at least one exit. Once that exit closes, another one reforms. I have seen about 7 wormholes so far and none have lasted more than 2 days. This means over a 3 month period you have at least 45 different system outputs so at least one should provide you a way to get more fuel into your POS.
Hardest part with scanning at the moment is inside wormhole space you have maybe 30 different anomolies, finding the wormhole (and not the ladar/gravs) can be a royal pain in the butt. If you have all those other anomolies mapped out, finding a wormhole won't be anywhere near as hard. Not to mention if you aren't interested in killing rats yourself, mining, or dealing with gas clouds you can sell the bookmarks to explorers. Rent them a ship and fittings and sell the bm's for that system. The possibilities are endless.
Quote: Imagine first month you exit right into empire, second month, your exit isn't direct, but requires you go though another wormhole, or possibly two, third month, you exit in Stain, fourth month - Branch. You get the idea.
As above I doubt any WH would last anywhere near a month. They cycle quite fast from what I have seen so far.
Quote: As long as you're committed to the logistics of it - it is doable. My experience is though, that logistics tends to wear you down.
I don't think there is much logistics really involved short of initial setup costs/time and advertising your location in the retail network.
Quote: Another question, is there ice in W-space? I've also heard the rats die down, once the first wormhole closes. Can someone confirm there are no moon materials in W-space?
No ice, no moon materials, I have seen the rats respawn in my cases I believe. Seems a very slow respawn timer but they do seem to come back eventually.
Quote: Some other thoughts, include can production be done? If there are no moon materials, what other purpose would the POS provide other than a home-base?
T1 Production (or t2 if you bring out all the raw stuff) for replacements perfect for stranded people those with losses etc. Someone who can't find an exit wormhole may request you buy his crow so he can pod jump home. You take it at a cost and one day someone else may show complaining he lost his crow. Sell it on, strip the mods for resale etc etc.
POS - Home base, retail shop etc
On another note. This kind of design would work perfectly if there was some sort of way a person could access some form of portal at a pos where a standard item exchange window was made available (exactly the same as npc stations). It would allow for secured trade especially suitable in WH space. Alternatively one could install on their POS a market array where the market tab worked and trades could occur somehow. That might be too complex though |
Fitz VonHeise
Foundation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:01:00 -
[19]
I posted this before but thought it might be good info to post here:
Here are my thoughts on this...
Every ship other then fighting ships through the Worm Hole (WH) should have cargo optimizers I's on them and cargo expander II's. (Cargo hold space is at a premium).
Initial Survey You take in two probe ships like the buzzard with holds full of moon and WH probes. If the WH is still open then you take through the largest cloaked industrial you can fly filled with your pos and other stuff. If WH is still open a 2nd industrial and so on till it closes. (Prioritize what is in each one and send them in the sequence you need them most)
The point of this that if the WH has nothing you want then you all you need to do is just find the exit point and leave. But if you do want to stayą then you already have part of what you need to settle the area.
Follow On Once you have located where you want to settleą then each time you find the new WH location you send through the minimum amount of ships/people you need and then if the WH is still there send through your Orca or whatever large ship you want. (carrier?) As if the ships fits through the WH and the WH is still openą then no matter what size your ship isą it will go through.
(This is based on the assumptions of this)
Originally by: Braaage A - We've got a cutoff value (12,000,000kg currently) which is a minimum ship mass that can always use a wormhole while its mass budget is still above 0kg. If this ship takes the budget below 0kg, it collapses. Say then you've got a wormhole with 9,900,000kg left: you can jump a 11,000,000kg cruiser through, but that'll take it below 0 and it collapses behind you.
EveGuides: Wormholes
Now I'm thinking that you will not need a large POS ... that you can get by with a Medium POS which should be enough to kill off the one or two caps that might come in to test your POS. And fuel will be less. But if you want to bring a large POS then go for it.
Then I started to think about fueling your POS after setting it up. You are going to have to bring fuel in.. probably in an industrial but you are not going to want to take the industrial back out empty (closing the WH) so you will end up with a lot of them hanging around.
You might be able to sell them to people to take their stuff out.
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Tordel Takuri
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:07:00 -
[20]
With regards to the finding a route idea, as long as you get intel (i.e. how they got to your system) from your customers it would be completely feasable, because systems need not have just 1 wormhole.
I am a laser man myself but a reprocessing and ammo manufacturing center is a must in WH space for all the people who get lost/stuck or that are going exploring like i am
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:07:00 -
[21]
Agreed about the leaving with an empty industrial.
You will have to coordinate the refuelling efforts with the exporting product to market efforts to help minimize logistic requirements or optimize use of wormholes.
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JamesWyh
Jammar Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:09:00 -
[22]
Liking this whole idea, it has given me something to think about, would be very interested to find out how it all turns out.. MAKER OF THE THINGS THAT YOU DESTROY! |
crockett EXE
Minmatar Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:13:00 -
[23]
Edited by: crockett EXE on 13/03/2009 19:13:22 You could probably make more just jumping into random WH's and asking if anyone's stuck, then offering a fee to get them out.
Unless you are just after the challenge of a POS in WH space.
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James Malice
Gallente Legion Of Mad Cats
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:33:00 -
[24]
you guys missed one inportant fact
There's no local in wormhole space.
Originally by: MooKids I like them, I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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Ginako
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: James Malice you guys missed one inportant fact
There's no local in wormhole space.
No theres a Delayed local in wormhole space. Meaning you cant see anyone in local until they talk. --------------
Flying Minmatar is like strapping yourself to an office chair and firing Uzi's as you roll down a flight of stairs! |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:39:00 -
[26]
I have also had similar speculations as you Ricdic, but it just seems like too big a hassle for me to dabble with solo right now, so I had actually considered finally joining a corp if its stated goal was to live and make profit out of W-space.
Do not forget the aspect of processing gas at your POS, that will make transportation easier. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran I have also had similar speculations as you Ricdic, but it just seems like too big a hassle for me to dabble with solo right now, so I had actually considered finally joining a corp if its stated goal was to live and make profit out of W-space.
Do not forget the aspect of processing gas at your POS, that will make transportation easier.
I'd like to be involved in a venture like this too, but I suspect your goal has to be slightly modified:
I'm not convinced that the logistical challenges are as manageable as the OP, but even so - the goal of living in W-Space, should likely not be to make a profit 'out of' W-space, but simply to sustain existence in W-space as your primary locality.
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Exoth3rmic
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:51:00 -
[28]
So your main concern after fueling this pos and expending all the funds in setting it up in a WH with randomly occuring exits (and therefore entrances) will be not to get podded, right?
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:52:00 -
[29]
if you live in the system your pos is in , it is very doable. If you got a group of players , or alone but that'd be boring (wouldn't it?), that wants to live in wormhole space for a long time. It would mean you could get alot of money out of it. If you can set up your tower in a way so that it can reverse engineer or run reactions too you might be able to ship out the 'finished' product you need to make subsystems etc.
If you stay in the wormhole system with your pos you'll probably get a wormhole to empire every now and then. Just bring plenty of probing ships and probes. Then use these wormholes to get fuel in and products out.
You could really have your own litle system cut off from known space , live your own life mind your own buissness . Without too much people bothering you. It reminds me of that movie about the earth being one big ocean and people sailing all across it. (with that mutant guy and the smokers that used alot of oil and sigarets .. forgot the name)
If I'll ever come across it I'll pop by ^^.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Exoth3rmic So your main concern after fueling this pos and expending all the funds in setting it up in a WH with randomly occuring exits (and therefore entrances) will be not to get podded, right?
Not necessarily. If you have a fuelled POS in W-Space you have a safe spot. The chances of a dred fleet coming and putting into re-inforced, although not zero, are very unlikely.
That leave entrance/exit. The Ops idea is that there is always an exit, and he's right - there is.
So what chance of being podded then? If the exit leads to another wormhole system, it's more likely than not safe.
If the w-space system exits directly or indirectly into 0.0, yes getting podded in transit is an issue, not simply in the system you exit into, but subsequent systems.
If the w-space system exits directly or indirectly into empire, no worries.
More likely than not, getting podded isn't the primary concern, or likely even the secondary one.
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James Malice
Gallente Legion Of Mad Cats
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:57:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Holy Lowlander
You could really have your own litle system cut off from known space , live your own life mind your own buissness . Without too much people bothering you. It reminds me of that movie about the earth being one big ocean and people sailing all across it. (with that mutant guy and the smokers that used alot of oil and sigarets .. forgot the name)
Waterworld
Originally by: MooKids I like them, I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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Chomin H'ak
Integrated Takeovers
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:57:00 -
[32]
Awesome idea, Ricdic. Especially about the exiting in the pod and having an alt come to you. The distance may be a limiting factor, but with time and patience I'm sure you could pull it off.
I had thought about this myself for the same reason, but the logistics was my biggest obstacle.
GL and hope to see chain stores soon!
Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
My Blog - Fighting for Eden |
Th0rG0d
Caldari Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:12:00 -
[33]
Getting podded would/should be a major concern. If you are podded, you may not know how to get back to your POS.
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Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:12:00 -
[34]
Sounds like an excellent idea. If you set up a 'w-space pos kit' service, count me in as a customer! I'd love to have an alt who runs a 'general store' in w-space.
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Noix Arikani
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:18:00 -
[35]
Some have already started doing this my corp including, estimated profits are 44bil a month
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:22:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Noix Arikani Some have already started doing this my corp including, estimated profits are 44bil a month
Sounds like an unjustified boast. Doing what exactly?
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: Noix Arikani Some have already started doing this my corp including, estimated profits are 44bil a month
Sounds like an unjustified boast. Doing what exactly?
selling dirty magaizines to lonely pod pilots
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Holy Lowlander
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: Noix Arikani Some have already started doing this my corp including, estimated profits are 44bil a month
Sounds like an unjustified boast. Doing what exactly?
selling dirty magaizines to lonely pod pilots
Must be that, as somebody who plan to live in W-space certainly would not be so stupid to make solid estimations on profit when there aren't any real isk faucets in W-space, and profits has to come from items that have to go through a long production process before being of any real interest for buyers on the market. And even then it isn't guaranteed what buyers will pay for the items. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 13/03/2009 20:48:42
Originally by: Holy Lowlander
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: Noix Arikani Some have already started doing this my corp including, estimated profits are 44bil a month
Sounds like an unjustified boast. Doing what exactly?
selling dirty magaizines to lonely pod pilots
Must be that, as somebody who plan to live in W-space certainly would not be so stupid to make solid estimations on profit when there aren't any real isk faucets in W-space, and profits has to come from items that have to go through a long production process before being of any real interest for buyers on the market. And even then is it up to the market forces to determine what buyers will pay for the items.
And not only that, you have to get them back to the market. That will probably require a freighter to move any significant amount and all that mass will destabilize the wormhole. fun stuff
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Noix Arikani
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:12:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Noix Arikani on 13/03/2009 21:13:50 were flooding sell chat with our produce atm, tis all working according to plan, but true we shouldnt make solid estimates, these are sisi induced estimates, not a boast merely saying that it is possible Transport ships move enough if you have a few+ they warp cloaked, and the produce atm doesnt need big volumes to be profitable, we just sold our first batch after an hour for 1.4 billion
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KarGard
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:30:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Noix Arikani Edited by: Noix Arikani on 13/03/2009 21:13:50 were flooding sell chat with our produce atm, tis all working according to plan, but true we shouldnt make solid estimates, these are sisi induced estimates, not a boast merely saying that it is possible Transport ships move enough if you have a few+ they warp cloaked, and the produce atm doesnt need big volumes to be profitable, we just sold our first batch after an hour for 1.4 billion
I highly doubt that, someone who is making that kind of money isn't going to jeopardize their operation by bragging about it on the forums, even if it is with an alt.
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Noix Arikani
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:43:00 -
[42]
im stupid, what can i say, its not a highly kept secret
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 22:14:00 -
[43]
Originally by: James Malice you guys missed one inportant fact
There's no local in wormhole space.
There are cans that can be anchored with labels saying to join a channel that does provide visibility. |
Phaige
Minmatar Reaver Construction Services
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Posted - 2009.03.13 22:26:00 -
[44]
Originally by: T***G0d Getting podded would/should be a major concern. If you are podded, you may not know how to get back to your POS.
You could always have an alt trained up for probes that never leaves the POS unless you get podded. That way you can go and find your front door again. -----------------------------------------------
You may be a King or a little Street Sweeper, but sooner or later you dance wi' de' Reaper! |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.03.13 22:29:00 -
[45]
market arrays! - putting the gist back into logistics |
Alonaris
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Posted - 2009.03.13 22:55:00 -
[46]
Ricdic,
I like the idea. I think that this guy may have found your raven
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=24459
Safe flying..
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2009.03.13 22:56:00 -
[47]
Cap 800s is what most players will find themselves short on rather quick i bet :). And if its true rats go to sleep with no open wormhole, then mining is just the thing to keep your busy til the next hole opens up.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.13 23:28:00 -
[48]
If ONLY POSes could be fitted with Remote Armor/Hull repair arrays. That would be awesome, you go up to the device and interface with it, it gives you a bill and you can choose to pay or not. If you pay it, it starts the remote repair process.
A POS in WH space would need an several Corp hanger, and probably an ammo array with BPOs, (I was going to say Drone array too but just 500each of the popular drone would do don't forget logistic drones). A ship maintenance bay, a Hulk, a logistics ships (Repair service), covert ops with full probe ability (Probe out sites and sell the locations/BMs), a re processor, a Ammo array, Months worth of fuel, lots of guns and hardeners. Lots of cans scattered around the place. While you're at it see if it a moon has any worth while minerals and mine it is so. Might as well make the most out of it.
I would bet one freighter load would hold it all. You'd be gambling upward of 2b ISK, so you'd also want to make sure you could recover that 2b ISK. Just keep harvesting the sleepers until your freighter is full of junk, wait, wait until you score a highsec worm hole back. Abandon everything left behind... keep the BM to the POS though in case you find yourself back there again.
Amarr for Life |
Myrannas
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Posted - 2009.03.13 23:37:00 -
[49]
Very cool idea :)! I had thought it would be a fun challenge to setup a POS in a wormhole, with a small corp and see how long you could survive with minimal outside contact. Best of luck with your endeavour!
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.14 00:42:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Alonaris Ricdic,
I like the idea. I think that this guy may have found your raven
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=24459
Safe flying..
It's similar to mine but not the same one. Mine was named "Free To Good Home" and was piloted by this character Ricdic. Similar setup except I was using 2 heavy neutralisers in high all power diag + 1 damage control in low, and CCC rigs.
I look forward to seeing when one finds my old Raven |
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Sheikh Yarbhouti
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Posted - 2009.03.14 01:15:00 -
[51]
I've considered doing this myself. Orcas might be helpful for logistics also, as they can hold up to 100K + 40K m3 of cargo space, along with a modest ship maintenance hangar. How many times can an Orca go through a typical wormhole before it pops?
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Wedric
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Posted - 2009.03.14 01:23:00 -
[52]
What would also be nice is a "Lost in the WH" chat channel, which could let pilots stuck in a wormhole spam their location and advertise payment for exit co-ordinates if someone finds their w-space locus. This might make things a little more renumerative for probers, and make the mini-profession pay...
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.03.14 01:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Phaige
Originally by: T***G0d Getting podded would/should be a major concern. If you are podded, you may not know how to get back to your POS.
You could always have an alt trained up for probes that never leaves the POS unless you get podded. That way you can go and find your front door again.
There is also the option of building a Capital Ship Array and building yourself a mothership. Load it up with clone vats, park it in a pos shield, set your clone, go off and do other stuff. Done.
Apparently quite a few people have wanted to take a shot at living in W space. Heck, I've thought about it myself. But you WILL need a corp of like-minded individuals to make it work. it's not really doable alone.
Oh, and regarding someone attacking a POS, a wormhole doesn't have enough mass to support a fleet. It would literally take DAYS to amass a fleet large enough to take out a POS. A SINGLE mom will pop a wormhole, and you won't be able to get even a quarter of the amount of BSes through needed to pop a POS without a mom. Yes, it can be done, but the effort required would make it laughably difficult.
W space may be the one place in EVE that a small dedicated corp can set up outside of Empire and be totally free of Alliance interference. ---- Fix the Wardec System! |
KarGard
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.03.14 01:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Oh, and regarding someone attacking a POS, a wormhole doesn't have enough mass to support a fleet. It would literally take DAYS to amass a fleet large enough to take out a POS. A SINGLE mom will pop a wormhole, and you won't be able to get even a quarter of the amount of BSes through needed to pop a POS without a mom. Yes, it can be done, but the effort required would make it laughably difficult.
Incorrect.
For one, you can't bring supercaps through wormholes.
Also I have seen wormholes still claiming to not have their stability affected after large battleship/capship fleets have gone through. So, no its actually not that hard to amass enough of a fleet to rip down a POS in W space.
Furthermore, even if they only manage to bring a handful of ships in before a wormhole collapses, Knocking down a POS that does not have a fleet on hand to defend it, is child's play.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.03.14 02:14:00 -
[55]
actually, this would be a time for CCP to make a new POS mod. A Market Module for a POS that would sit just outside the shields, and allow a local market of say 1000 items.
If someone opened up the market window in a WH, they'd see a listing of the goods at this module that are up for sale.
The POS would have to have the agression set to on agressive act only though before that mod was anchored.
SIG:
FULL WINDOWS CLIENT 1.9gig |
Sergio Ling
Veto.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 05:52:00 -
[56]
The amount of sheer misinformation claimed as fact in this thread is truly staggering. Probe for a new exit every month? Try every day. _
BET ISK ON ANYTHING AT ALL |
Maekar Targaryen
Gallente Universal Assembler
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Posted - 2009.03.14 14:56:00 -
[57]
My corp mates and I encountered a small group of minmatar militia trying to run a POS in a w-space system connected to our home system. We went in with a small fleet to kill some sleepers, and I found 2 small minmatar control towers on the directional scan. a few minutes of searching later we found one guy sitting in his pos, a corp hangar and a ship maintanence array, no defenses.....
So, being the jerks that we are, we scrambled about 5 battleships and assorted other smaller ships, and blew up the tower in a little over 2 hours, quite possibly the first POS kill in W-space. To their credit, the minnie militia corp got a hauler to clean out the hangar, and popped one of our cov-ops ships that got careless.
We checked out the other POS in the system, but couldn't do much too it do to downtime/fear of losing our route home. Same ultra minimalist setup, but different corp. We'd have to leave knocking it down to someone else.
Very fun day all around.
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Zex Maxwell
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.14 15:18:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Zex Maxwell on 14/03/2009 15:18:48 this actually sounds a lot of fun. too bad i don't have that kind of money to burn to start myself off. ---
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Enthral
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Posted - 2009.03.14 15:32:00 -
[59]
I love the idea, and while it may not be practical or feasible, there is no way to know for certain until you try. If you standardize on "first moon of first planet" or "last moon of last planet", then people could more easily find you.
-Enthral
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.14 16:25:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sergio Ling The amount of sheer misinformation claimed as fact in this thread is truly staggering. Probe for a new exit every month? Try every day.
Aye, seems like wormholes don't last very long (a day or so) no matter if you use it or not.
A W-space POS should be filled with Stront. That would would force any potential aggressor to find another route home and make the whole ordeal even more bothersome to him. (Why can't we just be friends?) ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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D'Avore
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.14 16:44:00 -
[61]
You can also offer to buy salvage at sub-jita prices if you are confident enough in your logistics. I'm sure some people will be happy to unload without leaving w-space.
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Hakuriu
Minmatar Divide by Zero Blue Sun Trust
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Posted - 2009.03.16 08:26:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Hakuriu on 16/03/2009 08:27:31 The idea of "settling" a w-space system is for me one of the most exciting things to come along in Eve in a long time. My corp will be focusing on this and I look forward to meeting other like minded individuals and corps who are passionate about making this happen.
So, on that note, I've created a channel called "WSpace Colonists" - please join and use to share strategies, recruit, or cry for help as you stare lost into the void. Oh, and spread the word. :)
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.03.16 10:36:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Phaige
Originally by: T***G0d Getting podded would/should be a major concern. If you are podded, you may not know how to get back to your POS.
You could always have an alt trained up for probes that never leaves the POS unless you get podded. That way you can go and find your front door again.
I like that idea, a lot.
Let My People Go |
Ranik Sandaris
Caldari The Centurions Eternus Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.16 10:37:00 -
[64]
I really like this idea. Best of luck to you guys, i will pop along and check it out later. |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.03.16 10:43:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Maekar Targaryen So, being the jerks that we are, we scrambled about 5 battleships and assorted other smaller ships, and blew up the tower in a little over 2 hours, quite possibly the first POS kill in W-space.
You make it sound like the POS did not go into reinforced mode.
Let My People Go |
SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.16 15:05:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Maekar Targaryen We went in with a small fleet to kill some sleepers, and I found 2 small minmatar control towers on the directional scan. a few minutes of searching later we found one guy sitting in his pos, a corp hangar and a ship maintanence array, no defenses.....
So, being the jerks that we are, we scrambled about 5 battleships and assorted other smaller ships, and blew up the tower in a little over 2 hours, quite possibly the first POS kill in W-space. To their credit, the minnie militia corp got a hauler to clean out the hangar, and popped one of our cov-ops ships that got careless.
We checked out the other POS in the system, but couldn't do much too it do to downtime/fear of losing our route home. Same ultra minimalist setup, but different corp. We'd have to leave knocking it down to someone else.
Very fun day all around.
LOL I highlighted the comedy gold in this...
So let me get this straight you went into WH to get some sleeper loot to make a mint off, instead you spent 2 hour+ lobbing what was probably Torpedos at a POS and hunting down the second POS.
I'm sorry to say you made the wrong choice. If you had enough firepower to down a POS you had enough to take on some sleepers. You said, you yourself said "Fear of losing our route home" so clearly the POS was a Major threat to your home system..
Congratulations for totally and unequivocally squandering your time in WH Space, mindlessly shooting at a defense POS with battleships and no resistance (Because we all know how much fun and enjoyment that is). At the same time collecting no reward what so ever, the amount of ammo you needed probably cost you several million ISK. YAY for negative profit gain destroying a zero threat target!
"Very fun day all around.." I think not..
Amarr for Life |
Nomad Storm
The Wandering Path
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Posted - 2009.03.16 16:43:00 -
[67]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Maekar Targaryen We went in with a small fleet to kill some sleepers, and I found 2 small minmatar control towers on the directional scan. a few minutes of searching later we found one guy sitting in his pos, a corp hangar and a ship maintanence array, no defenses.....
So, being the jerks that we are, we scrambled about 5 battleships and assorted other smaller ships, and blew up the tower in a little over 2 hours, quite possibly the first POS kill in W-space. To their credit, the minnie militia corp got a hauler to clean out the hangar, and popped one of our cov-ops ships that got careless.
We checked out the other POS in the system, but couldn't do much too it do to downtime/fear of losing our route home. Same ultra minimalist setup, but different corp. We'd have to leave knocking it down to someone else.
Very fun day all around.
LOL I highlighted the comedy gold in this...
So let me get this straight you went into WH to get some sleeper loot to make a mint off, instead you spent 2 hour+ lobbing what was probably Torpedos at a POS and hunting down the second POS.
I'm sorry to say you made the wrong choice. If you had enough firepower to down a POS you had enough to take on some sleepers. You said, you yourself said "Fear of losing our route home" so clearly the POS was a Major threat to your home system..
Congratulations for totally and unequivocally squandering your time in WH Space, mindlessly shooting at a defense POS with battleships and no resistance (Because we all know how much fun and enjoyment that is). At the same time collecting no reward what so ever, the amount of ammo you needed probably cost you several million ISK. YAY for negative profit gain destroying a zero threat target!
"Very fun day all around.." I think not..
Was it your pos
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Cruthensis
Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.03.16 17:22:00 -
[68]
Sounds great! If you're thinking you wouldn't get visitors, all you need to do is scan out the exit wormhole every so often, then message a bunch of popular channels with details of the empire side of it.
You'll be Chribba famous before you know it, with folks popping by just to see "craaazy Ricdic and his POS of um...awesome...wormholy...mystery...ness" _________________________
The "Lofty" trick is no more. Fleets are BACK! Coming soon to farmer infestation near you: Fleets of the Willing
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:00:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Nomad Storm Was it your pos
No, I just found it a joke someone was gloating about a POS kill in WH space, when they could have actually done something exiting, new, and profitable.
Amarr for Life |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.16 19:41:00 -
[70]
Originally by: SencneS
So let me get this straight you went into WH to get some sleeper loot to make a mint off, instead you spent 2 hour+ lobbing what was probably Torpedos at a POS and hunting down the second POS.
Annoying someone else > making isk.
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Valrandir
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ginako So its like a Gas Station in the Middle of the Nevada Desert?
Yeah except that it trade gas in exchange for sand :D :D :D
This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.16 20:38:00 -
[72]
From a purely trading point of view wouldn't it be better to have a large amount of stations all over new eden stocked with small amounts of w-space essentials? Then all a prospective customer would have to do is poke his pod out of the wh and and check the market for the nearest market hub branch. Once a close enough one is found then he will send out a hauler full of loot to contract off to an alt then grab the needed supplies and boogie on back. However the ops plan has merit if he wants to both trade and farm the system at the same time.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:25:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: SencneS
So let me get this straight you went into WH to get some sleeper loot to make a mint off, instead you spent 2 hour+ lobbing what was probably Torpedos at a POS and hunting down the second POS.
Annoying someone else > making isk.
While this is enjoyable, how enjoyable is it to sit in one part of space for 2 hours lobbing torpedoes at a defenseless, resistance free POS, when your objective was originally to go get some sleeper drone loot??
That's some HORRIBLE Boring game play and you know it. Regardless of the outcome sitting for hours pressing a fire button every so often to continue to fire is boring game play.
While greifing someone can be enjoyable I highly doubt anyone in the "gang" actually really enjoyed themselves taking down the POS. It's not like they where under threat of attack. Put simply the same amount of time and effort put forth into say attack sleepers would have been more enjoyable.
Something new, something challenging, something they hadn't done before is by far more enjoyable to the mind numbing assault on a singular target with zero threat of retaliation!
Amarr for Life |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.16 22:37:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Zeba on 16/03/2009 22:37:25
Originally by: SencneS Something new, something challenging, something they hadn't done before is by far more enjoyable to the mind numbing assault on a singular target with zero threat of retaliation!
Just like moast people don't get Goons you obviously don't get Griefers. They Live to ruin another persons game and the whole time they are doing it they will be cracking rude jokes over vent about the owner of the pos and giggling thier arses off. So yeah to you or me its no fun but to them its the entire reason for and point of thier eve existance.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Deridium
Caldari Young Enterprise DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:51:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Maekar Targaryen So, being the jerks that we are, we scrambled about 5 battleships and assorted other smaller ships, and blew up the tower in a little over 2 hours.
A large Deathstar POS setup correctly and stronted would be near impossible to take down. Considering that even if a large enough force is brought to bear aginst it all they would accomplish is putting it into reinforced mode. Chances are that it will not come out of reinforced until after the exits have shifted. I doubt anyone is going to take the chance of having a cap fleet stranded in wh space just to "grief" someone.
This venture does sound like a very good idea. I wish you luck.
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:54:00 -
[76]
Originally by: SencneS Congratulations for totally and unequivocally squandering your time in WH Space, mindlessly shooting at a defense POS with battleships and no resistance (Because we all know how much fun and enjoyment that is). At the same time collecting no reward what so ever, the amount of ammo you needed probably cost you several million ISK. YAY for negative profit gain destroying a zero threat target!
"Very fun day all around.." I think not..
Who are you to say they didn't have more fun knocking down the POS than fighting sleepers? Maybe they actually did enjoy eh? Otherwise they probably wouldn't have a) done it, or b) posted that they enjoyed it.
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2009.03.17 00:56:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Phaige
Originally by: T***G0d Getting podded would/should be a major concern. If you are podded, you may not know how to get back to your POS.
You could always have an alt trained up for probes that never leaves the POS unless you get podded. That way you can go and find your front door again.
There is also the option of building a Capital Ship Array and building yourself a mothership. Load it up with clone vats, park it in a pos shield, set your clone, go off and do other stuff. Done.
You need sovereignty, which you happen to be unable to get in w-space. Also motherships and titans cannot go through wormholes.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.17 02:13:00 -
[78]
its all about possibilites and how often stuff happens, if think bigger corps might be a better proposition say 10-15 active peeps at any one time. Eventuall i can see alliances having w space support corps. But its tsill highly varilable , ccp planning for the future growth in player numbers i guess
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LightTraveler
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Posted - 2009.03.17 02:19:00 -
[79]
Edited by: LightTraveler on 17/03/2009 02:22:51
Quote: Another question, is there ice in W-space? I've also heard the rats die down, once the first wormhole closes. Can someone confirm there are no moon materials in W-space?
(RicDic) No ice, no moon materials, I have seen the rats respawn in my cases I believe. Seems a very slow respawn timer but they do seem to come back eventually.
I have been running a POS test for 10 days now and have reported the W-space spawning issue to see if it is by design, consistent across w-space, etc. How long have you been stationed and to what extent have you seen sleeper site respawns? Mine have not respawned in nearly 5 days...
If the sleeper sites eventually respawn within a reasonable timeframe, then the POS test I have been running would prove out this model and I would be looking to maintain a POS presence.
Also, clearly the POS destruction in this thread was not stocked for reinforced mode - I would bet 1B ISK against the likelihood of getting enough mass into a WH, with sufficient ammo to take down a fortified POS...
(edit) Forgot to add: Yes, essential are Hangar Array, Ship Maint. Array, Refining Array as noted here.
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Zibster II
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Posted - 2009.03.17 02:31:00 -
[80]
Are you people so new to Eve, so naive or have you never left high sec to think this is such a good idea?
Lets look through your activities: - trade Since there are no station in WH space how do you expect to trade? The only way that comes to my mind is by using jet cans. Now even if you find someone that will agree to such trade there are following possibilities: a) both parties play it fair and exchange the goods at agreed rate. b) person A jettisons goods, person B scrambles, brings in fleet blows up and pods person A (lots of profit) c) person A gets blown up even before being able to jettison goods (bit less profit)
I'm sure all of you will choose option a)...
Renting a probing ship: a) Someone offers to scan a WH for you, you warp in to them to find: - a WH leading to safe space - a fleet waiting to kill you
b) Someone offers to sell you a probing ship: - you leave your ships and board the prober, your ship is left alone and waiting for you in space. - you leave your ship, but it turns out the probing ship is locked by someone and so is now your ship (bye bye ship, hello new clone)
Ohh and did I mention you'd have to pay for the probing ship first...
Someone comes into a WH saying he's got fuel for your pos: a) you go along the trading routes in first scenario b) you warp your indy to him just to get blown up c) you blow him up (or scram, web and jam and make him leave ship) and take the fuel for free.
And many other scenarios like this...which without a station and a safe "neutral ground" won't work, cause this is harsh, cold world, and the wormhole space is the harshest and the coldest of it all
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LightTraveler
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Posted - 2009.03.17 02:46:00 -
[81]
I am not in it to set up a trade ops station like Ricdic, but rather a base of operations for constant export into K-space - check my link. I am simply trying to validate whether or not respawns occur in W-space after not seeing any thus far.
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2009.03.17 03:02:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Khlitouris RegusII on 17/03/2009 03:04:42
Sleeper1>some ****wad set up a pos in our system and is killing us off.
Sleeper2>well don't whinge about it like some forum ***** move to one of the other 2499 systems we have with no poses in it.
Sleeper1>hey thats a great idea we can leave these nubs with all the useless roids that keep spawning.
CCP did say these rats had better ai
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LightTraveler
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Posted - 2009.03.17 15:20:00 -
[83]
Hah! Nice.
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eva seive
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Posted - 2009.03.20 22:25:00 -
[84]
Someone suggested to me today that one could park a Rorqual with a clone vat bay and just jump clone in and out.
Anyone know if this will work?
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Arthor Dark
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Posted - 2009.03.20 22:37:00 -
[85]
Originally by: eva seive Someone suggested to me today that one could park a Rorqual with a clone vat bay and just jump clone in and out.
Anyone know if this will work?
will not work.
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