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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Mohenna
Caldari Knights of the Dark
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Posted - 2010.05.17 08:32:00 -
[661]
Edited by: Mohenna on 17/05/2010 08:35:02 The promises are getting vaguer: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=replyquote&threadID=1317960&line=5
Originally by: CCP Chronotis IMO we have not really broken any promise as when we state the issue is deferred, its deferred with no set new release window (this is generally always the case). The patch and release schedule is determined by many factors, however we can see why you might infer 'post-dominion' as 'immediately following dominion' and no matter how many disclaimers we add to our posts, they never seem to be enough. It does suck that we have not been able to slot the assault frigate and rocket reviews into Tyrannis and that those of you eagerly awaiting it will need to wait longer but such as the limitation of pipeline bandwidth.
Historically, we tend to do most of our game balancing work during the summer generally as things are quieter then for the teams, especially design. Internally we have done some work on assault frigates and rockets with discussion on EAF and Black ops or tech II ammo closely following it to give an indicator of our balancing backlog.
We can never promise at such an early stage when any change will arrive on tranquility but we are aware of the issues and making progress. As soon as the dust settles from Tyrannis we will look to give you an updated status on the many issues we are looking into and where they stand.
Apparently the summer could give us hope. Although frankly with the little number of features Tyrannis has, I'd expect the next expansion to be more feature-y, and less balance-y... :-/
Edit: also, it seems that as usual, the hammer will be used: not a tweak but a rework. They are mindstorming the rockets folks. I feel already screwed.
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.17 11:27:00 -
[662]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 17/05/2010 11:27:05 Seriously? Id prefer if they said "**** off, we will never fix this" instead of "sometime after XYZ expansion". Atm the amount of stuff that should be reworked, fixed or updated after "XYZ expansion" is already so huge that it can fill 3 expansions ALONE. But yeah, bring on incarna, half-working feature which will be used for 1-2 months before people get bored and wait for obvious bug fixes and stuff in "near future" which never happens.
As for rockets - yeah i read about that "rework". And its again roll of the dice: balanced? screwed up? overpowered? No idea but surely not just easily fixed. Also its kinda funny that games-workshop (the company that does warhammer tabletop) can fix some bugs in their games FASTER than CCP can. For those who dont know: they release nev version of old armier every 5 years or so and in meantime give some erratas out. Still - its more often than CCP does it. And i always thought that digital distribution and digital products can be fixed on spot. I was so wrong all that time...
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries United Star Federation
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Posted - 2010.05.17 17:08:00 -
[663]
Regarding Rockets, T2 Ammo and AF Afterburners:
Please read this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1317960&page=1#5
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.17 19:14:00 -
[664]
Originally by: Zendoren Regarding Rockets, T2 Ammo and AF Afterburners:
Please read this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1317960&page=1#5
I can confirm it was NOT linked/quoted in this thread 3 times already. Not at all.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar The 23rd Sense
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Posted - 2010.05.18 10:45:00 -
[665]
rocketing back to page1 _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Rip Minner
Gallente Balthizar Drako Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.18 15:49:00 -
[666]
Originally by: yani dumyat rocketing back to page1
Thats funny I like it free bumb becouse your funny and rockies need to work as anti-frig weapons they were meant to be. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Krennel Darius
Caldari Nova Security Systems
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Posted - 2010.05.18 16:42:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Zendoren Regarding Rockets, T2 Ammo and AF Afterburners:
Please read this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1317960&page=1#5
I can confirm it was NOT linked/quoted in this thread 3 times already. Not at all.
They all just want to make sure that we know that CCP's timeframe on fixing rockets is sometime between 6 months and 1,000 years.
_________________________________________________ If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris |
Captain Muscles
Caldari Clan Farthammer
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Posted - 2010.05.18 21:27:00 -
[668]
I'd hate for this to reach the second page.
All hail Buffrawkets. ____________________ Captain Muscles sez:
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Dreed Roberts
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Posted - 2010.05.18 22:28:00 -
[669]
Heh I was thinking about this last night and I thought of something.
Statement: Given historical EVE ship designs and CCP's track record it is fair to say that at least one frigate T3 subsystem/ship will give bonuses to rockets.This ship/subsystem could be Caldari or Amar.
Question: Will we get a rocket fix before they release a new ship using the currently broken rockets? What are the chances of another still-birth from CCP?
Taking bets. Give you 5:1 for rockets after T3 frigates, 2:1 for rockets fixed with T3 and 20:1 for rockets fixed before T3 frigates.
Disclaimer: I am in game poor and have to limit the currency of these bets to 'internets', sorry.
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Mohenna
Caldari Knights of the Dark
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Posted - 2010.05.19 08:09:00 -
[670]
It seems they're doing a 'rework'. Rather than the fine tuning this problem needs. So basically, buff or nerf, it will be out of any reasonable magnitude, to then stay broken for years, either becoming foty or remaining worthless.
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Gecko O'Bac
Achmed-Terrorist IUS PRIMAE N0CTIS
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Posted - 2010.05.19 12:40:00 -
[671]
TL;DR: Wishful thinking on a mechanic rework for missiles as a whole.
If they do a rework I could "hope" for a rework of the missile mechanics on the whole. I'm not talking about the damage formula, that is fine (although it could use fine tuning on some specific values). But there are issues with missiles that make them a little sub par compared to guns... Namely the high travel times on long ranges (which could be reduced though not eliminated, I don't want another turret with different graphics), the launch vector and the range problem.
I have though about this for a while and I've come to the conclusion that to realistically solve those problems you would have to change from the partially physics based missile model we have now (they are temp objects that fly with dynamics akin to the ships) they would have to change to a simulation model (kind like the turrets).
This is difficult for a lot of reasons and necessarily time consuming, but the biggest problem, imho, with this is that right now the graphics for the missiles are an integral component of the damage mechanics as well. In particular, when you group missile launchers you get only one temp object instead of multiple ones. This single object has the combined damage of all the missiles launched with compound hp as well, but this means that it has a drawback: defenders suddenly got much more efficient against this "mega missile" because a single defender will actually kill more than 1 missile (as would have been the case with separate missiles). The same goes for area effects like bombs and smartbombs. As you can see the object is strictly tied to the damage mechanic (while this doesn't happen with turrets), and this is also one of the reasons that prevent CCP from giving missiles a higher speed (In testing giving increased speed to missiles broke the physics engine, with missiles phasing through objects and chtulian horrors appearing in CCP's offices).
I have considered this thing but can't really think of a simple workaround so a complete rework of the whole mechanics is wishful thinking at best, though it would make missiles more dirctly and easily comparable to turrets (and it'd also lighten the load on both server and client since you wouldn't have to compute the objects themselves but only some formula) and it would also allow a nicer graphic as well (you know, with missiles that actually fire from a launcher and are not... Pooped out of some hole)
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.19 12:55:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac But there are issues with missiles that make them a little sub par compared to guns... Namely the high travel times on long ranges (which could be reduced though not eliminated, I don't want another turret with different graphics), the launch vector and the range problem.
TBH missile travel time is not a huge issue even with cerb at 200km. After a while you just get used to this and just learn how to pick proper targets. Launch vector is an issue with short range missiles: rockets, HAMs and torps. IMO ccp could just remove the whole "missile needs to speed up" thingy. IMO its outdated and not needed anymore + surely has to put some strain on server to calc it for every missile/volley. Just make missiles start with full speed and be done with it.
Quote:
I have though about this for a while and I've come to the conclusion that to realistically solve those problems you would have to change from the partially physics based missile model we have now (they are temp objects that fly with dynamics akin to the ships) they would have to change to a simulation model (kind like the turrets).
Not sure if it was in this thread or other one but yeh that was one of the conclusions. Do hit/miss (if target is in range) check at launch and leave rest on cliend side (pretty gfx where missile goes towards target) - but we know that target is hit already. I know it would partially remove the ability to outrun missiles but on other hand it would fix the issues with short range missiles never hitting their target.
Quote: defenders suddenly got much more efficient against this "mega missile" because a single defender will actually kill more than 1 missile (as would have been the case with separate missiles).
Afaik defenders will always kill 0-1 missiles from salvo (they dont have enough damage to kill 2). Exception is NPC defenders which have nasty habit of killing even group of 6 torps (Thor torp spamming guristas station does this).
But yeh i do agree. Changing missiles from object to simulation can unlock higher missile speeds and generally seems like a good idea.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar The 23rd Sense
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Posted - 2010.05.19 19:54:00 -
[673]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 19/05/2010 19:58:20
Originally by: Dreed Roberts
Taking bets. Give you 5:1 for rockets after T3 frigates, 2:1 for rockets fixed with T3 and 20:1 for rockets fixed before T3 frigates.
Given that your post is number 666 I'll bet 100 severed heads on rockets being fixed with T3 (2:1) and have a wee punt of 15 sacrificial virgins on rockets being fixed before T3 frigates (20:1). _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Gecko O'Bac
Achmed-Terrorist IUS PRIMAE N0CTIS
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Posted - 2010.05.19 20:47:00 -
[674]
Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 19/05/2010 20:47:52 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1321029
I fleshed out a little the idea above, though like the title says, it's mostly wishful thinking. There's the link to a google docs version of it for improved readability in the fourth post.
Deva: yes travel time isn't that high but it still takes some time to travel to the target so you often end up with a blown target before the missiles hit. I used to have this problem even with just a drake if there are enough people around.
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.19 23:06:00 -
[675]
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Deva: yes travel time isn't that high but it still takes some time to travel to the target so you often end up with a blown target before the missiles hit. I used to have this problem even with just a drake if there are enough people around.
This is what i call using brain while flying missile ship (and especially cerb). WHY do you attack target that you KNOW will die before your missiles hit him? Attack secondary/tertiary or pick your own targets. I never had problems getting on mails (even including top dealer) in fleet fights with cerb - mostly because i was operating independent from main target calling (killing sabres, EWar, bombers - so stuff i can kill easily with 2 salvos and stuff that isnt primaried).
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Zachary Sikorsky
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Posted - 2010.05.20 10:18:00 -
[676]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Quote: defenders suddenly got much more efficient against this "mega missile" because a single defender will actually kill more than 1 missile (as would have been the case with separate missiles).
Afaik defenders will always kill 0-1 missiles from salvo (they dont have enough damage to kill 2). Exception is NPC defenders which have nasty habit of killing even group of 6 torps (Thor torp spamming guristas station does this).
But yeh i do agree. Changing missiles from object to simulation can unlock higher missile speeds and generally seems like a good idea.
Think about the NPC scenario. They have a shoot defender chance / missile launched at them. So if a single defender kills the whole blob it is fine as long as just ONE shoot defender test is made per blob.
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Gecko O'Bac
Achmed-Terrorist IUS PRIMAE N0CTIS
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:40:00 -
[677]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Deva: yes travel time isn't that high but it still takes some time to travel to the target so you often end up with a blown target before the missiles hit. I used to have this problem even with just a drake if there are enough people around.
This is what i call using brain while flying missile ship (and especially cerb). WHY do you attack target that you KNOW will die before your missiles hit him? Attack secondary/tertiary or pick your own targets. I never had problems getting on mails (even including top dealer) in fleet fights with cerb - mostly because i was operating independent from main target calling (killing sabres, EWar, bombers - so stuff i can kill easily with 2 salvos and stuff that isnt primaried).
Works up to a point. Three problems with what you say: 1) With a fleet big enough, even secondaries tertiaries will be almost instapopped 2) If there isn't a big number of enemies, like in an heavy gate camp, you're going to do no damage. 3) If the enemy is using RR heavily (either armor or shield), firing on secondary targets is actually helping them most of the time
Now, I don't ask for instant hits like turrets, I wouldn't want that. Just higher missile top speed... If you check the thread I linked above you will see the reasons why.
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.20 12:00:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Works up to a point. Three problems with what you say: 1) With a fleet big enough, even secondaries tertiaries will be almost instapopped 2) If there isn't a big number of enemies, like in an heavy gate camp, you're going to do no damage. 3) If the enemy is using RR heavily (either armor or shield), firing on secondary targets is actually helping them most of the time
1. then chose your own targets based on your knowledge of battlefield. EWar, tacklers, bombers, dictors. Or just pick weakest of enemy bunch and fire on it. Even 1 cerb will force scorpion or pest off the field fairly quick. 2. that means you blobbed them and in really have no pity for this. In equal fights you will always hit something. 3. then you fire on primaries, obvious.
Its up to missile user to think a little more than "primary, secondary". Like i said: i use missiles on my alt heavily (well... shes caldari an she can ONLY use missiles so its obvious i use them for pvp) and i never had problems with this. Well except for rockets which kinda suck (tho they are still better on caldari boats than amarr ones) and cruises which suck a lot. Second one is partially my fault, TZer (or w/ever his name is spelled - guy from Burn Eden) was right :X
Quote:
Now, I don't ask for instant hits like turrets, I wouldn't want that. Just higher missile top speed... If you check the thread I linked above you will see the reasons why.
As i said i have no problem with this. Especially on close range missiles (like rockets) which funnily enough can be outrun...
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Dreed Roberts
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Posted - 2010.05.21 00:04:00 -
[679]
bumpin' bumpin' bumpin' we'll just keep on bumpin' 'til its fixed... rawhide!
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.05.21 01:26:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Stuff
... Seriously? Someone who actually knows how to use a Cerb? Ok now this thread has gone totally insane.
Also confirming I also have no problems with missile flight time thanks to intelligent target choices. _________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Krennel Darius
Caldari Nova Security Systems
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Posted - 2010.05.21 21:40:00 -
[681]
Pax Ammaria declares that for this thread to reach the second page is heresy!
_________________________________________________ If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris |
Cheshire Katt
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Posted - 2010.05.22 06:52:00 -
[682]
This is a loooong thread. Have we had any CCP input on it? Too many pages to read. It would just be nice to know that CCP hears us.
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van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.22 08:59:00 -
[683]
Originally by: Cheshire Katt This is a loooong thread. Have we had any CCP input on it? Too many pages to read. It would just be nice to know that CCP hears us.
As said on page 7: have no fear, they're working on it. It might not come with Dominion though and it might get postponed if they choose to release another expansion after that.
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish Rockets and there balance is being looked into at the moment have no fear ! :)
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish Probably not in time for dominion but we are working on it.
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Cordin Hamir
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Posted - 2010.05.22 09:58:00 -
[684]
Originally by: CCP WeirdFish Probably not in time for dominion but we are working on it.
In other words - it probably will not be in your life time but there is a chance for your children or grand children.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.05.22 23:52:00 -
[685]
Pax Caldari declares that for this thread to reach the second page is unprofitable! _________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Tub Chil
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Posted - 2010.05.23 09:15:00 -
[686]
Did anyone from CCp post here?
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.23 16:21:00 -
[687]
Originally by: Tub Chil Did anyone from CCp post here?
Last time they did, dinosaurs walked on earth but, yes, they did post.
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Dreed Roberts
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Posted - 2010.05.24 05:40:00 -
[688]
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Originally by: Tub Chil Did anyone from CCp post here?
Last time they did, dinosaurs walked on earth but, yes, they did post.
Giggle
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.05.25 10:09:00 -
[689]
On page 2 this is Rockets are still needing fix Back to page 1 now _________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Drenan
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.25 14:25:00 -
[690]
CCP found time to 'fix' courier missions in Tyrannis...but not rockets, ye gods, what do we have to do...sacrifice the first-born?
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