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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:19:00 -
[1]
Can I please get some commentary on the performance of these two ships (and compare them).
Both in solo and in small gang scenarios.
Does the Vaga have any great advantage over the Cane? And if they went up against one another would one find itself with a gross advantage over the other?
Assume that the Cane is fitted with duel stasis webs....
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Kaitou Shiroi
Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:53:00 -
[2]
Vaga: Pros: Falloff Bonus, Better Resists, Faster, can fit a recon probe launcher Cons: Skill-intensive (relative to a Hurricane), Somewhat fragile
Hurricane: Pros: Moar DPS, Heavier tank, Can fit warfare link (Interdiction Maneuvers anyone?) Cons: Slower, less range
Honestly, I like the Hurricane better. I don't fly either of them, but many guys I fly in gangs with fly both, and I've seen both used frequently, often in tandem. The vaga is better for solo-work, but if you have someone with you to tackle, the Hurricane is better. Also, the Hurricane can actually tank, as opposed to the buffer-fit most Vaga pilots use. ---
Unless specifically stated otherwise, the opinions expressed in my posts do not reflect those held by my corporation or alliance.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:56:00 -
[3]
The vaga is way faster.
Even if you put ambits on the hurricane to get the same dps at range as the vagabond, the vaga still has way more speed.
And if you put enough plates on the cane to give it about the same EHP, you end up with more than twice the align time of the vaga.
In short, you can make the cane punch a little harder than the vagabond, but it'll be approx 1/3rd the speed and more than double the align time. But it will cost less than half as much.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:57:00 -
[4]
The hurricane is cheaper, versatile and doesn't blow up when you web it, but the Vagabond is superior for hit-and-run. I consider the hurricane to be more of a sniper boat to be kept at range much like a tempest, but you can slap a plate/2 neuts and it will take on any other BC out there. And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.02.18 01:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Spaztick The hurricane is cheaper, versatile and doesn't blow up when you web it, but the Vagabond is superior for hit-and-run. I consider the hurricane to be more of a sniper boat to be kept at range much like a tempest, but you can slap a plate/2 neuts and it will take on any other BC out there.
Does that work against a drake?
I guess if you can shut off the hardeners when he's at peak regen it could work, but those things have insane regen.
Also, the drake can't tackle without gimping its own tank so...maybe.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.18 01:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714
Originally by: Spaztick The hurricane is cheaper, versatile and doesn't blow up when you web it, but the Vagabond is superior for hit-and-run. I consider the hurricane to be more of a sniper boat to be kept at range much like a tempest, but you can slap a plate/2 neuts and it will take on any other BC out there.
Does that work against a drake?
I guess if you can shut off the hardeners when he's at peak regen it could work, but those things have insane regen.
Also, the drake can't tackle without gimping its own tank so...maybe.
Yes, I should've said "except the drake," but if I'm fighting against most drake pilots (morons) then I'm hoping they'll have nothing but a passive tank, no BCUs and heavy missile launchers. And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2009.02.18 02:31:00 -
[7]
thx for the opinions
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Mortis Tyrathlion
Twisted Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.18 02:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Spaztick
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714
Originally by: Spaztick The hurricane is cheaper, versatile and doesn't blow up when you web it, but the Vagabond is superior for hit-and-run. I consider the hurricane to be more of a sniper boat to be kept at range much like a tempest, but you can slap a plate/2 neuts and it will take on any other BC out there.
Does that work against a drake?
I guess if you can shut off the hardeners when he's at peak regen it could work, but those things have insane regen.
Also, the drake can't tackle without gimping its own tank so...maybe.
Yes, I should've said "except the drake," but if I'm fighting against most drake pilots (morons) then I'm hoping they'll have nothing but a passive tank, no BCUs and heavy missile launchers.
In a recent corp tourney, a team of three drakes (including a couple of long-term Caldari fliers) was utterly trashed by two 'canes and a Curse. Curse did barely anything, kept having to zip out of range to avoid getting popped. The two 'canes, as far as I could see as a spectator, never had any trouble and just annihilated the drakes without any loss themselves.
That was a surprise, I can tell you. Just goes to show how effective the 'cane can be, though -
Originally by: Arcon Telf OP, you should be honored, because this is the first time in my short Eve career I've felt the need to say this:
Azeroth is that way ------>
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Glach Duwat
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Posted - 2009.02.18 22:02:00 -
[9]
The issue of a Hurricane vs a Drake comes down to a couple fits. Does the Drake fit full passive tank? if it's tackling the cane, it should be pretty killable, since passive fit canes do loldps.
if it's a HAM drake, load hail, get up close, and pray. They can do decent DPS while having a harder than then the cane, and are surprisingly nimble.
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.18 22:12:00 -
[10]
I've always said if you're going against a HAM drake, fit artillery and keep your distance; you're nimble enough to stay out of ham range, javelins do laughable damage and make the drake even slower than it already is, and if anything you can run away. And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.02.18 22:30:00 -
[11]
Edited by: DubanFP on 18/02/2009 22:31:18
in a nutshell there isn't anything to compare, it depends on what you want to do.
The hurricane is cheap, and extremely powerful in a direct fight. The Vagabond is much more expensive and is dead the instant it gets caught, but its abillity to dictate range and fight in falloff makes it more survivable in the hands of an experienced player.
Honestly if you want to fly something fast and don't have much experience I suggest you fly a stabber for a while. Going into a fight using a vagabond is suicide if you don't know what you're doing. With the hurricane some Rupture expereince would be good simply because its cheaper but you can just get up and go. _______________
This is EVE. Here you have the right to settle any disagreements with lethal force. |
Potrero
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.18 22:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 18/02/2009 22:31:18Honestly if you want to fly something fast and don't have much experience I suggest you fly a stabber for a while. Going into a fight using a vagabond is suicide if you don't know what you're doing. With the hurricane some Rupture expereince would be good simply because its cheaper but you can just get up and go.
This, if ISK is an issue. I fly a Vaga solo in 0,0 because it lets me go where I want. It's reputation is enough to make a lot of players give me the right of way. When that doesn't work there's speed. And when that fails it's a great ship in a fight. I fly Canes in fleet. Not fast enough to travel solo through 0.0 unmolested. But it works great as a close in support ship.
But as said before. Small gangs = Stabber. A terrific little ship.
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Stygian Knight
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2009.02.19 14:10:00 -
[13]
Better put Vaga vs Rupture
Rupture can easily take down any Vaga in 1v1. Don't believe it? Find a dedicated rupture pilot or test it yourself.
Also Vaga vs Stabber Fleet Issue. (130mil vs 120mil)
Stabber Fleet issue owns Vaga in every aspect.
Vaga is good,but greatly overrated.
It's best use so far is in 0.0 as a nano ship.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.02.19 14:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Stygian Knight Better put Vaga vs Rupture
Rupture can easily take down any Vaga in 1v1. Don't believe it? Find a dedicated rupture pilot or test it yourself.
Welcome to the worst vaga pilot ever then. Ruptures, especially the plated gank fits that Garmon made so popular, is far too slow to kill a competent vaga pilot, especially now that landing a web on a vaga is no longer GG.
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Stygian Knight
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2009.02.19 14:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Originally by: Stygian Knight Better put Vaga vs Rupture
Rupture can easily take down any Vaga in 1v1. Don't believe it? Find a dedicated rupture pilot or test it yourself.
Welcome to the worst vaga pilot ever then. Ruptures, especially the plated gank fits that Garmon made so popular, is far too slow to kill a competent vaga pilot, especially now that landing a web on a vaga is no longer GG.
Or you have met the worst Rupture pilots then :P
Hehe, it takes skill to kill vaga, but it can, and it is, and will be doable.
I am just telling from my experience.
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Grista
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Posted - 2009.02.19 18:18:00 -
[16]
A properly fit Vagabond can do something a Hurricane should never be able to do - run relatively small 0.0 gate camps. The Vaga aligns more quickly and has much better straight line speed.
At best, a Hurricane should be able to do no more than burn back to the gate it entered from and escape.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.02.19 18:22:00 -
[17]
Range manipulation and small sig are the vaga's strong points; damage and good looks the cane's.
In short, they represent different playstyles. With the 'cane you wanna get in close fast and deal the pain. With vaga you want to manipulate the conditions of the battle to your advantage but rarely if ever duke it out in a damage race. ----------------------
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.02.19 18:44:00 -
[18]
For the record....
I HATE drakes, a competent drake pilot has alot of advantages over the equal hurricane pilot.
Better tank, and decent damage on a consistent basis.
If you load the wrong ammo on the cane you will die horribly if the drake knows what it is doing. Stop, hammer time. |
Lovely Lily
Minmatar GHOST RANGERS Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 19:11:00 -
[19]
ok, i am a spec'd vaga and cane pilot with 10 mil sp just in small and medimu ships. The vaga is good as you have all said as quick run and gun attacks. perfect for 0.0 as long as you keep out of web range your golden. NOW as far as the can vs drake replys i have been reading i have one thing to say , have you all lost your minds? drake=epic fail with or without HAM's the hurrican does between 700 and 800 dps compared to adrake that MIGHT be able to do 500 dps with T2 HAM's. laughable. and tank? my canes run passive shield with lvl 5 skills iget 25000 and EFH of 40000 drake might have slightly better tank but i garantee thet my dps will pop the drake long before he pops me.
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Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.19 20:40:00 -
[20]
that's really not a very practical fit for your cane is it? It can't scram, can't move, can't web...
a cane's big advantages over other bc's are speed, x2 neuts, and good damage placement.
a vaga is a hac and should never be compared to a BC nor should it be thought of as fulfilling the same role as a BC. A hac is for speed, mobility and gank, that's it "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
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Lovely Lily
Minmatar GHOST RANGERS Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 21:20:00 -
[21]
sorry guess we should have been more specific, my canes are fleet only and designed for dps. no tackle. and the other posts did not say wether they had tackle or not on they're drakes either. And i agree with you Van the hac is for gank and speed.
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HowlinMad Murdock
Caldari No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.02.19 22:14:00 -
[22]
Edited by: HowlinMad Murdock on 19/02/2009 22:14:56
Originally by: Megan Maynard For the record....
I HATE drakes, a competent drake pilot has alot of advantages over the equal hurricane pilot.
Better tank, and decent damage on a consistent basis.
If you load the wrong ammo on the cane you will die horribly if the drake knows what it is doing.
C you know you love me meg! :)
and i think everyone was talking small gang/solo not fleet fights where you don't have to fit tackle, in that aspect a drake can still outshine a cane
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Stab Wounds
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.02.19 22:30:00 -
[23]
cane > drake
only thing a drake can do is tank. a can tackle and do way more dps. it's the best bc.
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Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.19 22:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Stab Wounds cane > drake
only thing a drake can do is tank. a can tackle and do way more dps. it's the best bc.
you, again, have no clue.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.02.19 22:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: HowlinMad Murdock
and i think everyone was talking small gang/solo not fleet fights where you don't have to fit tackle, in that aspect a drake can still outshine a cane
Drake can fit tackle just fine.
For instance:
[Drake, Ham] (1% PG implant) Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile [empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
599 DPS 82,423 EHP 146 DPS regen tank
Comparing to a similar fit on the 'cane:
[Hurricane, basic] (5% turret CPU implant) Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Valkyrie II x3
614 DPS (+2.5%) 71,803 EHP (-14.8%) (21 DPS regen tank)
The main advantage for the cane is that ECCM / extra mid since you don't need an injector going passive. The damage difference is negligible. Drake has better damage type choice aswell as better range (20km faction hams vs 1.4 + 10 220's). 'Cane has lower sig (due to the plate and rigs not any faster though). ----------------------
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Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.19 22:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: HowlinMad Murdock
and i think everyone was talking small gang/solo not fleet fights where you don't have to fit tackle, in that aspect a drake can still outshine a cane
Drake can fit tackle just fine.
I'm pretty sure he understands, seeing that he has just shy of 500 kills in a Drake.
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Solid Prefekt
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.20 03:44:00 -
[27]
Assuming price is not a factor, the Vaga is better then the cane for both solo and small gangs. A cane will die solo when it hits even a small gang. In a small gang the Vaga is so much more useful both for dmg and tackling. With the falloff bonus you can hit out so much farther. And with the speed bonuses you will tackle so much better. The only reason to go with the Cane would be if you are poor or don't have the skills for a Vaga.
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Solid Prefekt
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.20 03:46:00 -
[28]
And the drake 'can' be a good ship, but most people fit it with all tank, no gank, and no tackle. Making it next to useless in a gang as a drake is last to be primaried so you rarely take advantage of the tank. And some do not even fit point. It is easier to just not allow them into the gang at all then to try to explain to them how they should fit it.
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HowlinMad Murdock
Caldari No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.02.20 06:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Poast Warrior
Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: HowlinMad Murdock
and i think everyone was talking small gang/solo not fleet fights where you don't have to fit tackle, in that aspect a drake can still outshine a cane
Drake can fit tackle just fine.
I'm pretty sure he understands, seeing that he has just shy of 500 kills in a Drake.
yea i think he misread my post, i was agreeing that it can fit tackle AND outshine a cane :)
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Kaileen Starsong
Amarr Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.20 09:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Solid Prefekt Assuming price is not a factor, the Vaga is better then the cane for both solo and small gangs. A cane will die solo when it hits even a small gang. In a small gang the Vaga is so much more useful both for dmg and tackling. With the falloff bonus you can hit out so much farther. And with the speed bonuses you will tackle so much better. The only reason to go with the Cane would be if you are poor or don't have the skills for a Vaga.
Heh, that kinda depends on type of gang and where said gang is going to roam. E.g. I can say that Hurri is far better than Vaga in small gangs due to its superior damage/tank and ability to fit gangmod and is also better in large gang, because Vaga's advantages won't matter nearly as much(due to having dedicated tacklers for example).
Vaga is good for solo, if you understand shooting lone frigs/cruisers as soloing. It's pretty lacking otherwise tbh.
See, how good the ship is kinda depends on perspective :P
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.02.20 09:48:00 -
[31]
Originally by: HowlinMad Murdock
Originally by: Poast Warrior
Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: HowlinMad Murdock
and i think everyone was talking small gang/solo not fleet fights where you don't have to fit tackle, in that aspect a drake can still outshine a cane
Drake can fit tackle just fine.
I'm pretty sure he understands, seeing that he has just shy of 500 kills in a Drake.
yea i think he misread my post, i was agreeing that it can fit tackle AND outshine a cane :)
My mistake. Your post can be interpreted in either way. ----------------------
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Pac SubCom
A.W.M
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Posted - 2009.02.20 10:13:00 -
[32]
The Vaga is an anti-Zealot guided missile. --------------- ∞ TQFE
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kyrv
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Posted - 2009.02.20 10:21:00 -
[33]
Vaga will lose 9/10 against caine even a caine without fall off mods, a caine fitted with artys will pwn a vagabond if it keeps its distance.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.20 10:29:00 -
[34]
Vaga will never lose if the pilot has a clue what he is doing. However he might not win either (losing = getting destroyed). ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Jodie Amille
Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:16:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Pac SubCom The Vaga is an anti-Zealot guided missile.
lulwut?
I sure hope that was sarcastic --------
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Pac SubCom The Vaga is an anti-Zealot guided missile.
Eh, it can hold it down long enough for better fire to take down the zealot but the last vaga that burnt out to my zealot died to 600 em/therm laser fire. __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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SKINK0429
Monkey Universe Corporation Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:57:00 -
[37]
Cane is a pretty awsome ship tbh, I used to fly it solo alot and when running into other solo hacs and recons they do not risk it, if they do, there as the previous guy stated 9/10 times dead!
I fly my cane active tanked, duel repped and injected with ambit rigs, and ec 600's works a treat.
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Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.20 12:04:00 -
[38]
Just use both...both are among the best in their class, with the Vaga being one of the few ships still able to "nano-tank" at range...way less effective, still it's possible. Surely a way better tackler than the Hurricane, the Vaga is still one of the few cruisers than can pick fights, and most times run away if sth goes wrong...
The Cane is a very good ship, but unless fitted for speed, Harbingers and Drakes are performing equally well and it's usually down to personal piloting skills and/or situation. I too agree tho that the HAM Drake is way more "fool-proof" and effective than the average cane, and the common believe against it's usefulness in PvP is nothing but an advantage for the experienced Drake pilot... The Drake is cheap too, and unless you are going for a Dual 1600mm RT setup with Dual 180s, I wouldn't suggest putting in trimarks in order to fix this (the cheap cost I mean)...speed is your thing...and ambit rigs are still cheap and effective, acting as both a range extender and dmg amplifier on AC boats...
"Never underestimate an enemy" is a saying as old as War... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
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