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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2009.02.18 17:35:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/02/2009 17:36:05
I really dont care what happens in this trial. If pirate bay closes down, there is hundreds of more sites. Close them down and people move to private trackers. Go hunt them and people go for encrypted ftp servers. People will go back to sending cd's or dvd's in the mail if they have to.
This is a battle that cant be won by the music industry, and I dont think they deserve to win either.
People who come up with stuff like Spotify deserve to get rich, not the people who try to put their teenage potential customers in jail. One of them is adapting to the new environment, one is not. Adapt or die.
---
Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
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EliteSlave
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.18 18:52:00 -
[62]
Edited by: EliteSlave on 18/02/2009 18:54:43
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: EliteSlave
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 18/02/2009 16:32:47
Originally by: Cierejai . I know enough about the internet to keep myself out of trouble, that's enough for me.
Actually you don't. Do you honestly expect the handful of people that it takes to run a site like that, probebly only in their spare time at that, to manually search through and use millions of files, any of which could even be viral, and delete every single one that even might questionably against some vague law? You haven't the slightest clue how these things work.
Actually it really isnt that hard.
Setup a filter in the Database... for key words... like....
Filter = [42j]Defiance.screener.divx.mp4.avi = Quarantine For Abuse check.
It's not their responsibility to check what their users do with their programs..also are you gonna pay the office building full of personnel to enforce these 'abuse checks' ?
I dont need to pay them. have it automated. If they are able to afford lawyers to stand up in court. then they have the funds to set up a few database filters. and have it queue all quaruntines for a week, then Once a week run a report and have it Email via form mail to the appropriate authorities. And you have washed your hands of all accountability. If you provide a service, Dont be lazy about running your service.
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DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.02.18 19:12:00 -
[63]
Edited by: DubanFP on 18/02/2009 19:13:28
Originally by: EliteSlave
Actually it really isnt that hard.
Setup a filter in the Database... for key words... like....
Filter = [42j]Defiance.screener.divx.mp4.avi = Quarantine For Abuse check.
Remove them automatically and you wind up deleting a lot of useful stuff with it. ****ed off customers = no buisiness. Check through the triggered material manually and, as stated above, you'll need to pay for an office of people to sort through items on the check list.
Either way people will find ways around it and it'll miss a lot of stuff. Well, that is unless you want to hire another office full of people just to maintain the filters and do tons of research on what can and can't be downloaded. In the end its not just a couple filters. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2009.02.19 00:15:00 -
[64]
The responsibility lies with the user.
Can you sue the mail company for allowing a copied DVD to be mailed around? I don't see them arresting the mail companies after taking delivery of an anthrax mail. Or should we see this as a precursor for a law that allows the government to check everyone's mail before they get it?
Are ISP's going to get sued because they allow for criminal communication?
I can see some media companies dropping their contract with a CD printing contractor on a technicality, sueing them for copying their IP.
I'm sorry, but i think the entertainment industry is digging it's own grave. Copyrights as we know them today are already almost unmanagable, and in 5-10 years they'll be just letters on pieces of paper, holding no value whatsoever because they can't be reinforced. The industry will bankrupt itself because the overhead of trying to stay ahead of the internet generation - The only ones that will survive are the companies that have made the transition to the new media, which currently are just a few of them... Gaming companies in front, taking MMORPG's and Steam as examples.
EVE History Wiki
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Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.19 00:31:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/02/2009 17:36:05 I really dont care what happens in this trial. If pirate bay closes down, there is hundreds of more sites. Close them down and people move to private trackers. Go hunt them and people go for encrypted ftp servers. People will go back to sending cd's or dvd's in the mail if they have to.
No need to. P2P technology is advanced enough that I'm surprised there is still a need for services such as TPB. For convenience, maybe ... anyways if TPB and all similar sites close down, it will likely be replaced by something closer to "true" P2P with no central services in between and therefore no chokepoint that provides a target to lawyers.
Then they can still sue the authors of P2P software and all sites that distribute it. The former is not a problem, because it won't wipe out the software that already exists and won't prevent it from being developed further by other people. The latter is the last remaining piece of the inherent chicken & egg problem of P2P technology. And that's where sending CDs and DVDs comes in if everything else fails ;)
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.19 00:38:00 -
[66]
check this lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_kong_defense
Originally by: Feilamya
No need to. P2P technology is advanced enough that I'm surprised there is still a need for services such as TPB. For convenience, maybe ... anyways if TPB and all similar sites close down, it will likely be replaced by something closer to "true" P2P with no central services in between and therefore no chokepoint that provides a target to lawyers.
is already done by freenet is not used on big scale because there is not really big need for this. freenet is based on small word theory Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.19 01:35:00 -
[67]
no way they are gonna lose.. the goverment is tackling the wrong problem and the music industry is working at it the wrong way.
The ISP's should be enforced insomeway(have no idea lol), mp3 songs should be encoded(somehow?) etc.etc.etc.etc. SOMETHING about the lines of that. Should be focusing on technology, either finding a way to make it non possible AND to take advantage (spotify for example).
If I want a song, I won't go onto itunes and buy it... = takes time, setting up account etc.etc people are lazy.
However I thin kthe internet is a good idea and has a positive affect. record labels have for too long run a monopoly on how much cd's cost etc. It's alot more 'democratic' in a way...
I may be right/wrong. Please postfacts if you want to correct me. I'm not a stingy git haha.
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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.19 01:43:00 -
[68]
Originally by: EliteSlave
I dont need to pay them. have it automated. If they are able to afford lawyers to stand up in court. then they have the funds to set up a few database filters. and have it queue all quaruntines for a week, then Once a week run a report and have it Email via form mail to the appropriate authorities. And you have washed your hands of all accountability. If you provide a service, Dont be lazy about running your service.
you don't understand the picture here... their money comes from the illegal file pointing... If there were no illegal links then it would all be shareware. What would you want to do with shareware? Depending on how many people enter the site the price for an advertisment spot on the site goes up, more people = more cash, more illegal files = more people.
I saw the word "viral" don't know what it means, or if it's important in this context.
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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.19 01:45:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/02/2009 17:36:05 I really dont care what happens in this trial. If pirate bay closes down, there is hundreds of more sites. Close them down and people move to private trackers. Go hunt them and people go for encrypted ftp servers. People will go back to sending cd's or dvd's in the mail if they have to.
No need to. P2P technology is advanced enough that I'm surprised there is still a need for services such as TPB. For convenience, maybe ... anyways if TPB and all similar sites close down, it will likely be replaced by something closer to "true" P2P with no central services in between and therefore no chokepoint that provides a target to lawyers.
Then they can still sue the authors of P2P software and all sites that distribute it. The former is not a problem, because it won't wipe out the software that already exists and won't prevent it from being developed further by other people. The latter is the last remaining piece of the inherent chicken & egg problem of P2P technology. And that's where sending CDs and DVDs comes in if everything else fails ;)
They would loose, as the program when active CAN be used for LEGAL purposes...
Read my post 2 posts back about ISP's n stuff.
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Xelios
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.19 02:08:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Reiisha The responsibility lies with the user.
Can you sue the mail company for allowing a copied DVD to be mailed around?...
Agreed with everything. Fact is the internet put us in a new age, if companies can't adapt to it the only remaining option is to make room for someone who can.
Even if TPB is shut down a dozen other trackers will take its place. Even if bittorrent itself is blocked some new protocol will take its place. And it'll be faster, more efficient, more anonymous and harder to disrupt. It's happened several times already and it'll keep happening. Eventually we'll reach the point where it all comes down to a simple choice, do we allow file sharing or do we dismantle the internet and forget it ever existed? Because by then the two will be so intertwined that it'll be impossible to separate one from the other.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.19 02:30:00 -
[71]
I've always said the game industry itself is more responsible for piracy than anyone else. Spending millions on anti-piracy measures ensures that your product remains expensive. If a pirate can crack this protection and still distribute it, more people are going to download due to the high cost of buying it.
If you reduce your overheads and retail your goods at a price that more people are willing to pay, less will pirate the software. Let's face it, with the inclusion of manuals and other ducumentation, the bought version has always got to be better. Allowing users to copy the disk to protect their original disk means that it stays in good condition and keeps more people happy. This has always been my major gripe with games, your original disk gets scratched and damaged by constant use but you can't elect not to have it in the drive because of the anti-piracy software. There are games from the days of DOS that I still like to play and have an old P120 to play them on. Every one I own has a copy that I use to install etc, but if I had to use the original, they would never have lasted this long. This won't get rid of piracy but it will reduce it a lot.
People refuse to pay such high prices for games now, especially given that many of them are bugged to the point of being unplayable for the first month or so until a huge patch comes out. It seems that the M$ legacy of shipping bugged software is rubbing off on the games industry. Nobody wants to pay 40 quid or more for a game, knowing that the first thing they will have to do is go online to download a 500mb patch. Nobody wants to wait 6 months while the developers decide to fix glaring, game stopping bugs that should have been found in Beta tests (remember Diakatana?).
I believe in "try before you buy" and have bought games like Crysis, Farcry and such based on the quality of graphics, gameplay and such. To do this, I have always downloaded a copy first from TPB. I feel they are offering a service to people like me to test software to see if it's worth paying for considering how much cash the developers want me to part with, especially in the case of applications. Some don't do what I want/expect them to do and cut down freebie demos don't show me the whole product to see if I can work around it. I don't want to part with megabucks just to find out that it's not what I wanted. UK laws don't allow me to take the product back based on that so I'm stuck with something that doesn't do what I need and out of pocket as well so I can't buy something else instead.
All in all, the software industry themselves are just as responsible for piracy as the people who copy the software.
I really hope that TPB will win. Swedish laws do not prevent hosting of torrent files providing the pirated files are not being hosted. TPB does not host any software, just the torrent files to link downloaders to other peers. They also host a tracker which does nothing more than keep up the links between peers and determine data flow, a kind of software router. They have been sued several times in the past and won and make no secret of it. I want them to give this case the finger as well.
If they do lose, I can see torrents will soon be hosted in some remote country that does not enforce the piracy laws. Taiwan and China and many other Asian countries are known for that. No matter how much they try, they will never kill this, cut off an arm and it will simply grow another one. Cut off it's head and another will come to replace it. They can only limit it's impact to a small degree but never enough to make much difference. The only way any difference will be made is by software companies reducing costs to the end user to make software more affordable and piracy less appealing.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
EliteSlave
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.19 02:32:00 -
[72]
Torrents themselves don't need to be blocked. I full heartedly support Legal torrents.
But,
TPB hosts and does not clean out the Illegal stuff, thus they are promoting Illegal Activities, thus an Accessorie to the Crime.
its like an Image hosting site. If they allowed anyone to post anything, then people could post Child P-o=r*n or the likes and if they allowed it they would be treated as the Criminal that posted the pic itself and rightfully so.
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Xelios
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.19 04:09:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Xelios on 19/02/2009 04:11:39
Originally by: EliteSlave Torrents themselves don't need to be blocked. I full heartedly support Legal torrents.
But,
TPB hosts and does not clean out the Illegal stuff, thus they are promoting Illegal Activities, thus an Accessorie to the Crime.
its like an Image hosting site. If they allowed anyone to post anything, then people could post Child P-o=r*n or the likes and if they allowed it they would be treated as the Criminal that posted the pic itself and rightfully so.
What TPB is doing is no different than what Google does. TPB doesn't host any illegal stuff, they host links to illegal stuff. The tracker is just a huge collection of links. Your bittorrent client asks it "Hey, who else has this file?" and the tracker gives your client a list. It's not the same as an image site because the content is not on TPB's servers.
If this makes TPB an accessory to crime, then it also makes Google (and every other search engine) accessory to the same type of crime, because I can easily perform a Google search for something illegal, and Google makes no active effort to filter illegal content from their search results.
You can see this yourself by searching intitle:index.of -html -htm -download mp3 metallica, about 17,000 pages allowing you to download pirated Metallica songs. Google isn't responsible for this because they're not hosting the pirated songs, they're only hosting links to them. Just like TPB.
If hosting links to illegal content is deemed illegal then a large portion of the internet is going to be in serious trouble. I can't wait to see how Google would respond to that.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.19 04:14:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Xelios
If hosting links to illegal content is deemed illegal then a large portion of the internet is going to be in serious trouble. I can't wait to see how Google would respond to that.
jesus christ the last thing we need is them ****ing off Google and Google's robotroops invading various nations capitals over this. (they exist, trust me)
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2009.02.19 05:45:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/02/2009 05:49:30
---
Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
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rValdez5987
Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2009.02.19 06:49:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Xelios
If hosting links to illegal content is deemed illegal then a large portion of the internet is going to be in serious trouble. I can't wait to see how Google would respond to that.
jesus christ the last thing we need is them ****ing off Google and Google's robotroops invading various nations capitals over this. (they exist, trust me)
Confirming that google is in fact a robot producing super power bent on world domination that i led by everyones favorite robot Bender from futurama and the other robots were built by mom. _________________________________________
Soon to be in a new home |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.19 07:45:00 -
[77]
The Pirate Bill is passed. The system goes on-line August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from torrent trackers. TPB begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, the MPAA tries to pull the plug.
MPAA fights back.
Yes. It launches its lawsuits against the targets in Switzerland.
Why attack Switzerland? Aren't they our friends now?
Because the MPAA knows the Swiss counter-suit will eliminate its users over here. And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.02.19 16:42:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Xelios
If hosting links to illegal content is deemed illegal then a large portion of the internet is going to be in serious trouble. I can't wait to see how Google would respond to that.
jesus christ the last thing we need is them ****ing off Google and Google's robotroops invading various nations capitals over this. (they exist, trust me)
We are google. Lower your firewall. Your biological and technological distinctivness will be added to our own. Resistance if futile.
Obey google.
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EliteSlave
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.19 17:54:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Xelios Edited by: Xelios on 19/02/2009 04:11:39
Originally by: EliteSlave Torrents themselves don't need to be blocked. I full heartedly support Legal torrents.
But,
TPB hosts and does not clean out the Illegal stuff, thus they are promoting Illegal Activities, thus an Accessorie to the Crime.
its like an Image hosting site. If they allowed anyone to post anything, then people could post Child P-o=r*n or the likes and if they allowed it they would be treated as the Criminal that posted the pic itself and rightfully so.
What TPB is doing is no different than what Google does. TPB doesn't host any illegal stuff, they host links to illegal stuff. The tracker is just a huge collection of links. Your bittorrent client asks it "Hey, who else has this file?" and the tracker gives your client a list. It's not the same as an image site because the content is not on TPB's servers.
If this makes TPB an accessory to crime, then it also makes Google (and every other search engine) accessory to the same type of crime, because I can easily perform a Google search for something illegal, and Google makes no active effort to filter illegal content from their search results.
You can see this yourself by searching intitle:index.of -html -htm -download mp3 metallica, about 17,000 pages allowing you to download pirated Metallica songs. Google isn't responsible for this because they're not hosting the pirated songs, they're only hosting links to them. Just like TPB.
If hosting links to illegal content is deemed illegal then a large portion of the internet is going to be in serious trouble. I can't wait to see how Google would respond to that.
Xelios - Dont get me wrong here, I agree that Google isnt any better then TPB. but the thing is, Google actually employ's a staff that looks into / cleans out a good portion of it. /me looks at my workload for the day lol. |
Professor Nutbutter
Caldari Void Engineers Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.22 18:38:00 -
[80]
Tl;dr to alot of these posts .. but something alot of people fail to mention in situations like this is that torrenting is legal so long as you have a legally bought copy of whatever it is you're torrenting which is impossible to prove or disprove by any of these ignorant lawyers and whining record companies.
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Northern Fall
Minmatar Guild Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.22 19:23:00 -
[81]
Newsgroups are so much better anyways
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.02.22 19:32:00 -
[82]
Quote: Does / Did Piratebay
Actively delete all records of Illegal Activities on their sites and reported all IP's to all appropriate places? If yes, then Piratebay has nothing to worry about. If not, They facilitated the Illegal act's.
Also, people that Download Game files thru Bittorrent, Must be incredibly stupid / risktaking, Yes I want to d/l from joe schmoe that could have made alterations to a game that could potentially ruin my gaming experience and or real life financial. /end sarcasm.
If you facilitate a Crime, do the time and quit your complaining.
The TPB do not encrypt their torrent files in any way, meaning that people are more than welcome to use their search engine to catch those individuals who are breaking copyright law just as much as anyone could use it to break copyright law. TPB is just a tool, much like a crowbar. You don't try to shut down the people who make crowbars, you try to catch the people using those crowbars to commit crimes. ---
Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.02.22 21:02:00 -
[83]
While I hate DRM as much as everyone else with a clue, it's beyond any (reasonable) doubt that Pirate Bay intentionally facilities piracy, which makes them an accessory. More traditional search engines (like Google), or most IRC networks, or most file hosting sites do not, and aggressively remove infringing material from their networks once they find out about it.
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Fyrewyre
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Posted - 2009.02.22 23:15:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Fyrewyre on 22/02/2009 23:21:42 Might be the drink but just imagine if you will.......
If i have previously seen a film, and I recollect and enjoy the film again in my head, am I a pirate?
Now transfer this to a PC
I rented a movie, then ripped the DVD to my HDD, I am a pirate.
I visited a bookstore over the course of a week in my dinner hour and read a book whilst browsing, am I a pirate?
I know this book but i lost it, i have paid for the intellectual material on both parts.
I downloaded the whole book and read it. I am a pirate.
Myself and my band reproduced *insert band* work in a local bar and got paid. Piracy?
My point is "Intellectual property"
If a builder creates a wall in my neighbors front garden and it's a good design, I want that wall. An exact copy of that wall.
I acquired one, Is this piracy?
If someone likes my hairstyle and copies it, does that count?
The next person I see with my name is getting taken to court.
But I bet I wont win
And no comments about trademarks or copyright -------------------------------------------
"Never let anyone stop you having fun"
Mad Snoz, leeds |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.23 00:05:00 -
[85]
Norwegian Minister Wants to Legalize File-Sharing
personal preference 1) copyrights only for first 5 years [ happy birthday to you is copyrighted] 2) patents only for first 10 years Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
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Angelik'a
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.23 00:05:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Reiisha Can you sue the mail company for allowing a copied DVD to be mailed around?
There was a joke about that somewhere, that in the UK all undelivered mail is property of the Crown, so someone should send a ****ton of drugs in the mail and do the queen for posesstion.
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Kappas.
Galaxy Punks
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Posted - 2009.02.23 00:09:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Professor Nutbutter Tl;dr to alot of these posts .. but something alot of people fail to mention in situations like this is that torrenting is legal so long as you have a legally bought copy of whatever it is you're torrenting which is impossible to prove or disprove by any of these ignorant lawyers and whining record companies.
I don't know the specifics of the law on that so can't comment, but I believe the bigger issue isn't someone that already owns something that is downloading it - it's that he's uploading it to 20 other people who don't own it and never intend to buy it. __________________
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.23 00:21:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Kappas.
but I believe the bigger issue isn't someone that already owns something that is downloading it - it's that he's uploading it to 20 other people who don't own it and never intend to buy it.
you see there are only 1 and 0 and none can own them Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.23 03:28:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kappas. I don't know the specifics of the law on that so can't comment, but I believe the bigger issue isn't someone that already owns something that is downloading it - it's that he's uploading it to 20 other people who don't own it and never intend to buy it.
Each person is responsible for their own actions. Libraries lend out books, audio tapes, CD's and the like but that doesn't make them pirates just because they facilitate copying.
Therefore, if you upload a copy of something you have bought, you shouldn't be named as a criminal. The person downloading it is the one breaking the law if they do not own a legal copy themselves already. I often dl copies of games I have previously bought so that my originals are kept in good condition.
In addition, try before you buy is actually a legal case in many countries. Demo's of games ALWAYS run perfectly but often the full game has had 1*10^99 changes to the engine since the demo was released. Farcry was a good example, the demo ran perfectly but the full game had to be patched for some Nvidia chipsets or you just got a light blue screen. I have downloaded 20 games in the past month, 5 of which I have bought and the rest I dumped because they were crap. If I did not have the ability to try them out on my own PC, I may probably have bought 1 or 2 that I'd seen on my friends PC's since. In my case, the industry has actually made money from it and without the likes of TPB, they would not have.
With money being as tight as it is now and the extortionate cost of games, you can't afford to gamble now and end up paying for another Daikatana.
--
Originally by: CCP Whisper No it is not an official statement. Not everything surrounded by blue bars is an official statement which can be quoted as fact until the end of time. Deal with it.
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Xen Gin
Universal Mining Inc. Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2009.02.23 07:33:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
Originally by: Kappas. I don't know the specifics of the law on that so can't comment, but I believe the bigger issue isn't someone that already owns something that is downloading it - it's that he's uploading it to 20 other people who don't own it and never intend to buy it.
Each person is responsible for their own actions. Libraries lend out books, audio tapes, CD's and the like but that doesn't make them pirates just because they facilitate copying.
Therefore, if you upload a copy of something you have bought, you shouldn't be named as a criminal. The person downloading it is the one breaking the law if they do not own a legal copy themselves already. I often dl copies of games I have previously bought so that my originals are kept in good condition.
In addition, try before you buy is actually a legal case in many countries. Demo's of games ALWAYS run perfectly but often the full game has had 1*10^99 changes to the engine since the demo was released. Farcry was a good example, the demo ran perfectly but the full game had to be patched for some Nvidia chipsets or you just got a light blue screen. I have downloaded 20 games in the past month, 5 of which I have bought and the rest I dumped because they were crap. If I did not have the ability to try them out on my own PC, I may probably have bought 1 or 2 that I'd seen on my friends PC's since. In my case, the industry has actually made money from it and without the likes of TPB, they would not have.
With money being as tight as it is now and the extortionate cost of games, you can't afford to gamble now and end up paying for another Daikatana.
Every TV series I acquire after broadcast on the net, I usually end up buying anyway.
If I wasn't able to download the series to begin with I would never have gotten into it, and would never have bought the DVDs.
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