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EVE-Search ForumWatch http://eve-search.com/ The alternative EVE-Online Forum browser. en-us Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:00:00 +0000 EVE-Search RSS Module v1.1 chribba@evemail <![CDATA[FW question - by CCP Mitnal]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=7#187
Thread necro and issue fixed in previous patch.

Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 20:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8854329 <![CDATA[FW question - by Illwill Bill]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=7#186

]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 19:43:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8854090 <![CDATA[FW question - by N'tek alar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=7#185

Originally by: Kiarah

Originally by: Spurty
All I need to know is A) its by design and B) I will not have my account F**Ked over by some jobs worth for parcipitation in this in the Gallente hub.

If its a bug, CCP jobs worth get to jita and make yourself busy thwapping that camp outside, otherwise, can the numb nutts that neglected to point out this can happen slam their knackers in the nearest door frame in silence after they have advertised this is a wanted thing.

wat

*Wacks Kia over the head*

BAD necromancer.]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 18:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8853559 <![CDATA[FW question - by Grarr Dexx]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=7#184 player versus player. Laughing

]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 18:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8853558 <![CDATA[FW question - by Kiarah]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=7#183

Originally by: Spurty

All I need to know is A) its by design and B) I will not have my account F**Ked over by some jobs worth for parcipitation in this in the Gallente hub.

If its a bug, CCP jobs worth get to jita and make yourself busy thwapping that camp outside, otherwise, can the numb nutts that neglected to point out this can happen slam their knackers in the nearest door frame in silence after they have advertised this is a wanted thing.

wat

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun, in my experience.

]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 17:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8853243 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=7#182
Probably the bug with Faction Navy not activating sometime was fixed.
]]> Thu, 10 Jul 2009 18:19:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8268140 <![CDATA[FW question - by MailDeadDrop]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=7#181

Originally by: "Empyrean Age 1.0.1-2 Server side change, released 10 July 2008"
An exploit concerning Faction Navy NPC's has been fixed, making EVE a better world to live in for us all.

See patchnotes here

MDD
Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching]]> Thu, 10 Jul 2009 18:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8268139 <![CDATA[FW question - by Kamikazi TWO]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#180

Originally by: Arana Tellen

So caldari millitia HOWS ABOUT SCANNING DOWN the bait ship and blowing it up? Then laughing as they all die?

Better still, if CCP have hard coded a max of 10 Navy fleets per system why not just have them showing up as a beacon in the same way a complex or cyno does ? The local militia could then fly in and do the job they signed up for.
]]> Thu, 10 Jul 2009 16:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8267327 <![CDATA[FW question - by Fforia]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#179
1. have a scout find a nice mining gang.
2. 2 to 5 pilots jump up to 10 systems from safe system.
3. Pop the miners who never watch local is sweet.

and yes the navy comes to there aid but you have about 60sec to kill and get out in a 1.0 system longer in lower sec systems. T2 ships die quick :) our best results have been with BC's

So fellow Caldari pilots get the raiding gangs going no need for large gangs we mainly do it with 2 to 5 pilots for best results

]]> Wed, 9 Jul 2009 12:25:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8257302 <![CDATA[FW question - by Le Skunk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#178

Originally by: Leviathan9

Well, Navies are still bugged i think, i got killed in Niarja, by 2 ships, there was... i think 3-4 war targets in that system, why did i never in the ages i spent before decloaking from jumping, from getting attacked to warping my pod out, not see a single navy help me? Petitioned and got that stupid max 10 bs.

Silly you - you didnt have your pvp flag turned off

/pvp - off

SKUNK
]]> Mon, 7 Jul 2009 16:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8243565 <![CDATA[FW question - by Leviathan9]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#177 ----------------------------

]]> Mon, 7 Jul 2009 14:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8242648 <![CDATA[FW question - by Sacrificial Lamb]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#176

Originally by: Akita T

Originally by: ThrudUK
However, there is a cap to the number of navy groups deployed in a system - no more than 10 spawns will appear in a given system.

And who the hell had this "bright" idea ?
He should be hit in the head repeatedly with a blunk instrument until he changes his mind.

Fairly sure it was CCP LagMonster
]]> Mon, 7 Jul 2009 13:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8242041 <![CDATA[FW question - by Faife]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#175
it's absolutely not fair that the gallente can tank enemy ships.

- -

]]> Mon, 7 Jul 2009 03:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8239778 <![CDATA[FW question - by Akita T]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#174

Originally by: ThrudUK

However, there is a cap to the number of navy groups deployed in a system - no more than 10 spawns will appear in a given system.

And who the hell had this "bright" idea ?
He should be hit in the head repeatedly with a blunk instrument until he changes his mind.

_

SUPPORT or CRITICIZE the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
]]> Sat, 5 Jul 2009 15:40:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219664 <![CDATA[FW question - by ThrudUK]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#173
However, there is a cap to the number of navy groups deployed in a system - no more than 10 spawns will appear in a given system. It's possible that the navies are dealing with another group of FW flagged militia in the same system. In that case, no navy will come to your rescue.

]]> Sat, 5 Jul 2009 11:56:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219663 <![CDATA[FW question - by Napro]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#172

Originally by: Rhanna Khurin

They're not exploiting you fool. As has been said it's merely that the NPC Navy ships DO appear but often are bugged or lagged out or something and half the time dont even bother to attack.

Stop crying exploit as that implies that all those players are doing something purposely to cause this effect. Which they're not.

My guess is that lag glitches up the ships

Wow

Taking advantage of a bug to pour a fleet into high-sec is a very precise example of "exploit"

]]> Sat, 5 Jul 2009 09:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219662 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jones Maloy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#171

did i get it right?
-----------]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 13:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219661 <![CDATA[FW question - by Chris Sharp]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#170
And the correct response to an enemy fleet would be to grab a bunch of comrades and get them and save the inhabitants of the systems from the vicous, transparent plasic wearing intruders!
]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 12:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219660 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#169

Originally by: Arkole Blake

Do this until you have 10 sets of npcs attacking the tank then send in your fleet, no more npcs will spawn.

If this is exact, all the rest is fluff.

You only need to jump in 10 ships with ultra heavy tank, wait for navy spawn and aggro, then jump remote reppers and cap transfer ships for the tankers and the rest of the fleet is free of doing anything they want.

All the other (possible) manoeuvres are icing to use less resource to keep the tankers alive, but they are not required. Warping to a bookmark in the system is convenient as it will hinder militia reaction more (they should scan for the ships and in a busy system it is a pain) but not necessary.

If that is true and CCP has hard coded a maximum of 10 Faction navy spawns in a system (or a number variable with the security of the system) it is effectively working as intended (i.e. Faction navy operating with limited resources). And it is an intended mechanic that the militia is needed to help repelling large invasions in high sec.
]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 11:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219659 <![CDATA[FW question - by FlameGlow]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#168

]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 10:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219658 <![CDATA[FW question - by baltec1]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#167
Havent tested this myself but its probably what is goin on.

]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 09:55:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219657 <![CDATA[FW question - by techzer0]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#166

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

I'm in your screenshot!

ME TOO ME TOO!!!

I'm ashamed really Embarassed

------------

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster

]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 08:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219656 <![CDATA[FW question - by Arana Tellen]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#165 ---------------------------------

Oh noes!

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*

]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 08:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219655 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venec]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#164

]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 08:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219654 <![CDATA[FW question - by Ulstan]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#163

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Set up two gangs, one to engage and draw ships away from one group of fighters while the others work unhindered taking out war targets.

Originally by: Friedrik Psitalon
It's impressive how authoritatively and convincingly you sound while being wrong on nearly every point. Go ahead and try to run a raid into Oursulaert with this set of tactics.... just let me know when so I can bring popcorn and salvagers.

Originally by: Arkole Blake
Post confirming it is done exactly as Jmanis Cartharg described

Jamnis Catharg: 1
Friedrik Psitalon: 0

Also, Le Skunk is a godly sleuther. Shocked

Excellent job and finding other potential tactics.

]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 02:28:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219653 <![CDATA[FW question - by Ulstan]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#162

Originally by: Arkole Blake

Want to know what they are doing?

Here ya go:

1 Onyx with 1 shield extender and passive resist mods. (Must be able to maintain high resist with 0 cap)
2 Basilisk with large remote shield reps,1 energy transfer and non militia pilots.

Send these three into the system and safe spot them,Basilisk Set reps on the Onyx and energy transfers on each other.
Wait for all currently spawned opposing faction npcs to aggress the Onyx.
Send in fast ships one at a time and let them get acquire the newly spawned npcs
Warp to the SS, wait for npcs to arrive, warp off. Npcs will now attack the onyx instead of giving chase.
Do this until you have 10 sets of npcs attacking the tank then send in your fleet, no more npcs will spawn.

Your fleet is now free to camp the gates and stations.

I'm sure I've gotten some of the details wrong, but those are the basics. I would strongly advise practicing it on the test server first to get it down. For a decently organized corp its quite simple, if you don't have a group of competent pilots that will listen and work together don't even bother trying you'll just die.

How do I know this is how they do it?
Check my employment history

Why am I posting it here?
That's not really your concern.

/me waves the finger to Fried on the way out.

Well, that's pretty much exactly what I suspected, minus the neutral pilots.

I don't think there is any real way to claim this is working as intended, as it relies on a flaw in the coding in at least two particulars. (Faction navies not aggressing people repping their enemies, and them breaking the faction navy spawn so no more show up)

That they insisted everything was working as intended is revealing, though not surprising. Additionally, I think most people would expect a properly functioning faction navy not to leave any group of enemy pilots alone for 20 minutes at a time, though I realize this part is open to different interpretations.

Hopefully CCP will strike a balance between people sitting unmolested by the navy for 20 minutes, and people being unable to launch hit and run raids through their opponents hi sec. It is important that you be able to pose a threat to enemy militia even while they are in their hi sec.

]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 02:22:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219652 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#161 Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 04/07/2008 00:39:49
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 04/07/2008 00:33:38

Quote:

No, you are the one asking the prestidigitator "Show me how it is done so I can do it too".

He has no obligation to show you anything.

You assume I asked how it was done 'So I can do it too'. I wanted to be shown how it was done so that I could be proven wrong. He's not obliged to show me anything true, but he's got no ability to prove I'm wrong if he's not going to show anything for it. Claims were made denying the circumstances I proved with evidence without any counter-evidence.

The one replying to me simply put themselves in a "damned if they do" (their secret is revealed) or "damned if they don't" (they can't disprove what I'm saying).

However, I wasn't wrong, so that whole argument is both moot and off-topic.
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 00:32:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219651 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#160

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg

Man, I feel like I'm in one of those religious discussions where you ask someone to prove something and they say their proof is "God told me".

No, you are the one asking the prestidigitator "Show me how it is done so I can do it too".

He has no obligation to show you anything.
]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 00:21:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219650 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#159

Originally by: Ulstan

Edited by: Ulstan on 03/07/2008 14:48:55

Originally by: Venkul Mul
So yes increasing time to 1 minute is a bigger difference than paragoning 20 seconds to 0.

No it's not, you dolt. Going from 50s to 1m is a 10s difference, and going from 20s to 0 is a 20s difference. Can you possibly fail this badly at basic math?

More importantly, there are orders of magnitude in difference between any delay, no matter how slight, and instant exploding. With a slight delay, you can always get enough ships and the right fits and the right coordination to blow up targets of opportunity. With an insta explosion, no matter how good you are, no matter how many ships you have, no matter what alpha you have, you can never kill anyone.

Tweaking the time delay by a few seconds this way and that is quite trivial compared to eliminating it entirely (which is what you suggested). Having you insta explode as soon as you entered hi sec space would be horrible - it would make your enemy militias perfectly safe from you. Giving you a delay of sufficient length before they showed up (30s, 1m, 2m, etc) would give you enough time to get in with a fast roaming gang, pew pew some afk hauler idiots who think they are safe in hi sec, and get out.

And you think this capability should be removed...why are the biggest whiners always the most clueless?

I see that
1) you haven't got my initial post, that was about 20-50 seconds (remember the 20, even if you always speak of the 50) being too short and and equivalent to no time.

2) 20 second less 10 seconds to load a full grid (Jita, remember, 10 seconds it a wonderful time to load the grid there), less 5 seconds to lock the target mean 5 seconds of combat at best. Increase that by 10 second and the difference is important.

Alternate example: always Jita remember. Loading the grid probably will take 30 or more seconds, plus the usual 5 to lock a target. Going to 50 seconds there are 15 seconds of combat. Add 10 seconds to 60 and they become 25, a time sufficient to kill someting a bit harder if you are in group. Or to lock a frigate and kill it.

My original reply was about this:

Originally by: Akita T

Avoidable or tankable ?
That for sure. But for a short while !
Not for LONGER than a couple of seconds, a minute or two tops.
Avoidable while sitting in a spot ? No way.
Perma-tankable ? No way either, well, at least not in 0.9 and 1.0 ! And even in 0.8, it should be damned hard to come close to a perma-tank.

The intended purpose of FW was to draw people to LOWSEC, not to enable gankfests in enemy highsec.
Hit-and-run tactics in enemy highsec are fine and dandy, as long as you can barely get a couple of shots and then be forced by the NPC assault to warp out or be destroyed in a matter of 20-50 seconds or so, depending on system sec rating and ship used.
If not, then the whole concept was pointless : what's there to draw you into lowsec, if you can easily raid the enemy highsec systems ; what's there to keep you in the FW, if you're not significantly safer in your own empire's highsec than in contested territory ; and so on and so forth.

and my comment was:

Quote:
About the other things: have you read some of your fellows? "more ship spawning every 20 seconds". Yes, they want Concord and you aren't very far from that.

You want a limited war, low sec only. 20-50 seconds survival if you enter enemy high sec. Why not ista destruction at that point? the difference is inexistent.

So where the heck, beside your inability to read, you have got the impression I was sugessting insta destruction as a good thing as you say?

Quote:
quite trivial compared to eliminating it entirely (which is what you suggested)

Try read a whole post before replying.
]]> Fri, 4 Jul 2009 00:19:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219649 <![CDATA[FW question - by Chainsaw Plankton]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#158

Originally by: Arkole Blake

way to kick the idea into the next level. using a tanked ship rather than destroyable drones, hax!!!!

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 23:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219648 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#157 Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 03/07/2008 23:18:33

Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg

...
So what's that mean?
The poor mans version of this tactic is to spawn a bunch of drones somewhere and have the navy engage them. My guess (guess only because I haven't tested this) is to get someone else to get the aggro instead of one of your drones. ...

It's impressive how authoritatively and convincingly you sound while being wrong on nearly every point....

Originally by: Arkole Blake
Post about how you draw the NPC aggro aggro onto someone else

All that's left for me to do now is lol at the denial.

Oh, and this:

Quote:
Hmm, that's just... ungh... stupid.
If that's true, you could as well send in 10 passively-tanked ships that can take care of their own spawns, safespot them randomly, then all the rest are free to do whatever they please.
Stupid, stupid, stupid

Precisely what I've said all along. It's not an exploit but it's stupid, broken logic.

Quote:
There are currently 7579 Caldari militia pilots and 4806 Gallente militia pilots. How bout the Caldari try undocking and forming some sort of organised fleet to do something about them...

If you don't like it, leave the militia.

Sorry, I'm in low-sec, so it's actually not a drama for me.
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 23:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219647 <![CDATA[FW question - by Metlec]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#156
If you don't like it, leave the militia.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 23:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219646 <![CDATA[FW question - by Le Skunk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#155

Originally by: Akita T

Originally by: Arkole Blake
Do this until you have 10 sets of npcs attacking the tank then send in your fleet, no more npcs will spawn.

Hmm, that's just... ungh... stupid.
If that's true, you could as well send in 10 passively-tanked ships that can take care of their own spawns, safespot them randomly, then all the rest are free to do whatever they please.
Stupid, stupid, stupid Mad

Well the non militia repping sounds pretty feasible - as they would not warrent their own spawn of navy. You dont even appear to get a standing drop with the amarr faction - just the navy corporation.

I dont know about the 10 spawns max thing as I cannot test it, but even if it is shite - you dont need 10 guys to gank the station at jita, and there are many non milita alts in bleicose you can use.

SKUNK

SKUNK
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 22:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219645 <![CDATA[FW question - by 00110000]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#153 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 22:13:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219643 <![CDATA[FW question - by Le Skunk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#154

Originally by: Akita T

In the search of ways to find out how one group of players "broke" the system, it appears Le Skunk has found several other ways of breaking the system Laughing

Thanks :) I was hindered by testing it solo so not knowing how a 2nd mans militia spawn would react to a left item (drone) or indeed as another poster suggests is the answer (an onyx).

I was trying to work out some way to get a sneaky suicide gank in with le skunk tbh. There is scope there for a well organized -10 pirate gang to be suiciding some freighters with this if they do aggro another mans dumped drones.

You could get a nice big 200 hobgoblin drop at a ss if you did it right. Then your gang could warp to the drop, wait for npc spawn, warp to the gate, and have three of four mins unmolested on a gate to close in on that afk freighter. Bang - suicide gank in high sec by -10 pirates. Carebears take to the forums. Le skunk demands 10% cut.

SKUNK
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 22:13:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219644 <![CDATA[FW question - by Akita T]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#152

Originally by: Arkole Blake

Do this until you have 10 sets of npcs attacking the tank then send in your fleet, no more npcs will spawn.

_

SUPPORT or CRITICIZE the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 22:07:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219642 <![CDATA[FW question - by Le Skunk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=6#151

Originally by: Arkole Blake

Sound feasible - Cant test it as im -10 - Thanks man though

SKUNK
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 22:03:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219641 <![CDATA[FW question - by Pratiken]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#150
Anyone want to play undock games in Oursulaert?
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 21:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219640 <![CDATA[FW question - by Lynx Morrison]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#149
It isn't that hard to get resists against ONE damage type up in the 97%-98% range on a T2 ship. If they do just one damage type, then you tank it, and you're golden.

Its just like that guy who set up a dictor to tank a specific type of doomsday, then tackled the titan pilot. It seems unlikely, but if you do the math, you can get 'er done.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 21:09:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219639 <![CDATA[FW question - by Arkole Blake]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#148
Here ya go:

1 Onyx with 1 shield extender and passive resist mods. (Must be able to maintain high resist with 0 cap)
2 Basilisk with large remote shield reps,1 energy transfer and non militia pilots.

Send these three into the system and safe spot them,Basilisk Set reps on the Onyx and energy transfers on each other.
Wait for all currently spawned opposing faction npcs to aggress the Onyx.
Send in fast ships one at a time and let them get acquire the newly spawned npcs
Warp to the SS, wait for npcs to arrive, warp off. Npcs will now attack the onyx instead of giving chase.
Do this until you have 10 sets of npcs attacking the tank then send in your fleet, no more npcs will spawn.

Your fleet is now free to camp the gates and stations.

I'm sure I've gotten some of the details wrong, but those are the basics. I would strongly advise practicing it on the test server first to get it down. For a decently organized corp its quite simple, if you don't have a group of competent pilots that will listen and work together don't even bother trying you'll just die.

How do I know this is how they do it?
Check my employment history

Why am I posting it here?
That's not really your concern.

/me waves the finger to Fried on the way out.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 19:40:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219638 <![CDATA[FW question - by Akita T]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#147 Edited by: Akita T on 03/07/2008 18:53:28

In the search of ways to find out how one group of players "broke" the system, it appears Le Skunk has found several other ways of breaking the system Laughing

Good job, man !

Now, if only CCP would stop playing the "yhh, umm, err, nono, it's really working as intended" card now and get their asses in gear and change the NPCs accordingly (so, you know, they actually do what they're supposed to do, meaning obligate enemy militia to warp off fairly frequently)... now that would be just peachy.

_

SUPPORT or CRITICIZE the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 18:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219637 <![CDATA[FW question - by Le Skunk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#146 Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/07/2008 17:26:59
Tried something else.

1) Got in a domi stacked with hobgoblins.
2) Warped to a ss - drop 5, abandoned them warp to next SS
3) Then warped to the next SS - and droped 40 odd before the navy turned up (they were delayed by the first 5)
4) Warped to the gate and began camping (camping gates on 20 man test server ftw)
5) The police chew through the drones in about 3 or 4 mins. But here is the good bit...
6) Alt in falcon with racial jams 200km from the drone blob and began jamming the navy.
7) The times I failed a jam, it took the navy time to lock then shoot at a drone, by this time they were jammed again.
8) They still pop the drones but at a much reduced rate.. my main was sat on a gate unhindered during these 10 mins.

So the ideal would be to have a 50 drone blob and two alt with racial jams. This would probably perma jam the enemy , and for the times they fail - they will pop a drone and be jammed again.

Worked on the test server when i tried it. This wont be the moethod they used ofc as they had rifters etc sat on the station.

SKUNK

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 17:25:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219636 <![CDATA[FW question - by Cyno Sid]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#145
Its not tanking, either by way of buffer, repping or speed (Yes you can outrun them if you go more than 2500 but they always turn up within 10 seconds if u jump grids or jump to you when you get more than 150k from them - the ship I watched just didn't have them there at all and it was sat stationary on a gate for ten minutes - so they were elsewhere doing something else, somrthing which several posters in the know have hinted at.... but what and to who) - Its also easy to jump from gate to gate thru 0.9 etc but stand still in 0.9 and upwards then you better expect a whole load of hurt

Jamming - need someone to take their Falcon / Scorp / Blackbird into High Sec and try this out - But I do have my doubts about jamming due to the number of ships involved - but without more testing we can't rule it out

Highsec carriers - Yeah right, won't even go there.

Grids - don't think so as CCP says its not an exploit.

So, come on guys, keep the ideas and testing coming. Get into your ships and take a wonder in 0.5 and try some things out - If your a BC or up you will easily tank the spawn - the 50 WT's sat on their side of the gate might be a different matter Very Happy

As for those in the know, can you give us some warmer or colder feedback, it would be appreciated Very Happy

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 16:44:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219635 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#144

Quote:

just let us know when you go try it to see you fail... or hell see you succeed. be interesting either way.

Been there, done that,, now with a raven leaving behind 5 drones. Gave me a reasonable opening to putt around the system without interference. If I had a known target I'd have had plenty of time to hit it.
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 15:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219634 <![CDATA[FW question - by Le Skunk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#143 Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/07/2008 15:14:19
Well some things I noted might work in my tests.

*1* THE CHEESE - TESTED in a 0.7 Amarr System on Singularity

1) Jumped in a macherial - undocked from station and hit the mwd

2) If you get to far ahead - they despawn and respawn next to you

3) The fastest ship they had was doing 2.5km/s (the little frigate)

4)so i adjusted my speed to keep the frigate (who i could tank) at about 30km behind me - I steadily increased the distance from the 2 BS spawn to 350km (the cruiser was at about 200km)

Then I stopped my ship - and tanked the frig. The BS headed towards me at about 500m/s. The cruiser at 1200m/s.

The point here is the main damage dealers slowboating 350 km towards me. I assume this process (if done in reverse) would enable you to camp the station for around 10 mins before the BS started shooting at you.

IT seems as long as one member of the spawn (the frigate in this case) is close to you - the ENTIRE spawn will not tactical warp.

*2* THE JAM - TESTED ON TRANQUILITY IN 0.7 AMARR SYSTEM

I simply jumped into the system, with an alt in a falcon 200km off the gate.

The alt was not in the militia - so did not warrant his own spawn.

The alt had all amarr racial jams on - and had a good 80% jam rate on the 4 enemy spawned. This meant my main could comfortably tank the enemy. If you keep the BS jammed thats the majority of the damage dealt with.

A couple of non militia noobs in blackbirds could easily keep one guy permasafe from the enemy.

If i knew damage types and all that carebear crap, I could probably have fit a specific tank. A HAC with racial resists should have very little problem.

If you combine this with some remote repping for jam failures, perhaps a damp or two on the actual camping ships, etc you should be able to replicate the ops complaint.

*3* THE DWONES - TESTED ON SINGULARITY IN 0.7 AMARR SYSTEM

I decided to engage the enemy, dropped drones, then mwd'd off as i was taking heavy fire. The enemy did some sort of drone gimp on me - because suddenly the drones dropped dead.

The amarr navy followed me for a bit -then when i got out of range (which would normally trigger a respwan) instead, they went back to where the drones were (they did not tactical warp - they flew) and started popping my drones. This took them a bit of time and gave me a good 2 mins sat still with nobody shooting me (time to camp the station) before they popped the drones then respawned.

*4* THE STATION DEATH - TESTED ON SINGULARITY IN 0.7 AMARR SYSTEM

Farting around trying to find the minimum distance the navy will tactical warp (seems to be about 90km?) I got blown up 190km outside a station.

So i docked, got into a new ship, undocked. And the same spawn where there at 190km. They locked me and started to approach, but did not tactical warp.

I couldnt replicate this however.

So there we go, perhaps some of the above was used in the jita camp. Perhaps many of these were used combined.

The pertinant thing though is you do not need to exploit - you can jam/damp/tank/outrun/outmanuver/selectivly pop them.

SKUNK

Oh and as a side note.. they dont appear to have infinite warp scramble anymore ... warp stabs have a use again.

EDIT: Le Skunk accepts no responsibility for ship losses. This post is for information purposes only. Le Skunk does not endorse the usage of any of the above. Le skunk suggests through testing of the above if you wish to us.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 15:11:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219633 <![CDATA[FW question - by Sky Grunthor]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#142

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg

Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 03/07/2008 15:05:26

Quote:
It's impressive how authoritatively and convincingly you sound while being wrong on nearly every point. Go ahead and try to run a raid into Oursulaert with this set of tactics.... just let me know when so I can bring popcorn and salvagers. Laughing

actually its more of the nature of....

go try it yourself.

just let us know when you go try it to see you fail... or hell see you succeed. be interesting either way.
Search: Sky Grunthor]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 15:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219632 <![CDATA[FW question - by Maxca'la]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#141 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 15:07:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219631 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#140 Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 03/07/2008 15:13:47

Quote:
It's impressive how authoritatively and convincingly you sound while being wrong on nearly every point. Go ahead and try to run a raid into Oursulaert with this set of tactics.... just let me know when so I can bring popcorn and salvagers. Laughing

From this point on I couldn't care less. We could bandy on forever about this, your opinion being one of "Jmanis is wrong and I'll tell him",, or "Damn, he's worked it out, I'd better try and pretend he's wrong", and unless you explain how you do it, you'll never definitively show that I'm actually wrong.

Regardless, I've proven that Navy NPCs don't respawn on you provided they've obtained something else to aggress that isn't you, and it's pretty obvious how that can extend into situations which are just downright ridiculous. Unless you want to tell us how you're doing it, you've got no ground to stand on whatsoever.

Man, I feel like I'm in one of those religious discussions where you ask someone to prove something and they say their proof is "God told me".

EDIT: If you can't work out why I say "downright ridiculous" and not "exploit",, if a squad of militiamen fend off their navy spawn and other peoples navy spawns in combat with a real risk of being popped, while another group hunts round the system during that opening, that's cool.

If the daft navy AI spends it's time trying to attack something it can't reach or hope to defeat (POS even,,,), it's just stupid. But it's even more stupid to call speed-tanking or spider-tanking an exploit over DPS-tankinjg.
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 15:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219630 <![CDATA[FW question - by Friedrick Psitalon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#139

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg

Quote:
so, you want the tactic laid out for you step by step. That way you can use it since you obviously aren't sharp enough figure out how to replicate what they did.

Too bad I didn't have a client accessible when I posted all that speculation, I could've saved you the time and effort typing that sentence. You almost sound convincing, until you realise you're trying to tell me "I haven't figured it out" when I didn't even need a client to work it out. I just needed it to be certain.

My Control Test:
I created two spots 200k apart. Warped to one in an ibis, navy spawned 20k away. Warped to the other, navy visibly despawned instantly and respawned 20k away from me.

My actual test:
Using an ibis with one light drone, I warped to one point, launched the drone and set it onto one of the faction ships, then warped to the other spot 200k away. From there I observed the faction navy remain behind and engage the drone. Granted one light drone doesn't last long on the navy, but the effect was definately visible.

So what's that mean?
The poor mans version of this tactic is to spawn a bunch of drones somewhere and have the navy engage them. My guess (guess only because I haven't tested this) is to get someone else to get the aggro instead of one of your drones. What better choice than a speed-tanked frigate for something like that? And oh yeah, you can definately speed tank them (to whoever said you couldn't before).

None of that's an exploit. And it even makes sense, if they were engaging the navy forces. Set up two gangs, one to engage and draw ships away from one group of fighters while the others work unhindered taking out war targets.

But I still heartily stand by the fact it's pretty broken in terms of having a large amount of numerous faction navy vessels chasing one tiny vessel, and broken in the same way that, as a caldari militia pilot, I can venture into Gallente space with a neutral alt or two perma-repping my tank while engaging the navy NPC's, who don't care to do a thing about another ship from a non-militia corp aiding their enemy to destroy them.

All in all, as I said before, pretty damn corny, but not an exploit.

It's impressive how authoritatively and convincingly you sound while being wrong on nearly every point. Go ahead and try to run a raid into Oursulaert with this set of tactics.... just let me know when so I can bring popcorn and salvagers. Laughing

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 14:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219629 <![CDATA[FW question - by Ulstan]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#138 Edited by: Ulstan on 03/07/2008 14:48:55

Originally by: Venkul Mul
So yes increasing time to 1 minute is a bigger difference than paragoning 20 seconds to 0.

Quote:

so, you want the tactic laid out for you step by step. That way you can use it since you obviously aren't sharp enough figure out how to replicate what they did.

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 14:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219627 <![CDATA[FW question - by Kalintos Tyl]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#136 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 12:43:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219626 <![CDATA[FW question - by Kalintos Tyl]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#134 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 12:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219624 <![CDATA[FW question - by Esmenet]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#135 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 12:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219625 <![CDATA[FW question - by Liua Ae]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#133

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

I'm in your screenshot!

Omg your a Jita nublet :O ?
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 12:18:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8219623 <![CDATA[FW question - by Friedrick Psitalon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#132

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 12:07:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8216250 <![CDATA[FW question - by Carrier Eleven]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#131

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg

I want to know what this mechanic is mostly so I can make a personal judgement about it. I'm not innocent of using broken game mechanics which aren't exploits (MWD/cloak warpoff), but there are some I despise also (logoffski/emergency warp hopping).

so, you want the tactic laid out for you step by step. That way you can use it since you obviously aren't sharp enough figure out how to replicate what they did.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 11:38:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8215988 <![CDATA[FW question - by Chainsaw Plankton]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#130

I was going to give away some tips, but its just too funny Twisted Evil

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 11:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8215935 <![CDATA[FW question - by Scrutt5]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#129
Good job Foom, made me laugh.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 11:24:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8215934 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jones Maloy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#128

Originally by: Lord Blandness

Originally by: Galyrion
Being a part of the mentioned gang in amarr space I find it funny how people keep forgetting one thing. They signed up for war so what do they expect? This feature was not implemented to make highsec space a "warfree zone". I have had my fair share of hatemails the last few days from people apparently not knowing they are at war. And to answer a few, I have never seen navy not spawning in highsec hostile space.

oh he sure as hell sat at that gate surrounded by sarum navy cruisers and battleships without taking any fire. i saw him do it.
Unofficial Official Jita Fubar Thread]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 11:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8215845 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jones Maloy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#127

Originally by: Galyrion

Being a part of the mentioned gang in amarr space I find it funny how people keep forgetting one thing. They signed up for war so what do they expect? This feature was not implemented to make highsec space a "warfree zone". I have had my fair share of hatemails the last few days from people apparently not knowing they are at war. And to answer a few, I have never seen navy not spawning in highsec hostile space.

hi there, nice of you to drop out of a convo as soon as i ask "do you know why the navy ships aren't attacking you?" Laughing

Unofficial Official Jita Fubar Thread]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 11:13:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8215844 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jones Maloy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#126 Edited by: Jones Maloy on 03/07/2008 11:05:29

Originally by: Venkul Mul

3) So you are convinced that CCP is cheating to help the Gallente militia or you are convinced that they are incompetent. Care to explain what of the two is your opinion?

edit: forgot the rest of my post
ccp obviously screwed up, and again they are playing the "I meant to do that" card, thus screwing over everyone negitivly affected by this. again.

I'm tired of this. say you are wrong, fix the problem.
Unofficial Official Jita Fubar Thread]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 11:03:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8215782 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#125

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg

Quote:

3) So you are convinced that CCP is cheating to help the Gallente militia or you are convinced that they are incompetent. Care to explain what of the two is your opinion?

I think you've got me confused with masternerdguy here. I don't believe CCP is cheating one bit, nor do I say it anywhere in my post.

PS: Find me exactly where I said "This is an exploit" and I'll stop denying I called this an exploit. But it has to be those words. Anything like "Something isn't right here" or along the same lines is just me speculating on what could be a broken game mechanic. Same goes for me cooking up a hypothetical that could mean this is an exploit. I don't know the full facts, and I'm not committed to saying this *is* an exploit.

edit: wording

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg

And I don't care if it's 'revealing your tactics', if you're not providing solid fact to show you're not doing anything untoward then gtfo to be honest, because that dev blog pretty much reads to me that if you're not having to *personally* dodge npcs or tank some damage (and mounting all that NPC response onto one character, if possible, is not *personally*), then something untoward is going on. If all you guys are tanking/spider tanking spawns, destroying spawns, speedtanking spawns, permajamming spawns, fine. Keep it up. But I find it incredibly hard to believe that all those different ships in that picture could each be tanking a 2 BS, 2 Frig and 2 Cruiser spawn you get in Jita (iirc).

You didn't say it is an exploit, you used the therm untoward

un+to+ward (n-t(rd, -trd)
adj.
4. Improper; unseemly.

so for a strictly dictionary definition you are not calling it an exploit.

On the flip side you are saying that there is something improper/unseemly going around.

Point 2 as you should have noticed is piling the mass of people saying it is an exploit, it is not possible to do it without exploiting some broken game mechanic, explain it or I will think it is done using broken game mechanic and say so, ecc. as a group. Maybe unfair to some of them are more "soft" than other in the accusations, but still the accusations stay.

I find most absurd that there are several posts following Wrangler reply saying "it is an exploit" as if the value of is reply was 0.

If you look other dubtful situuations like the Beacn issue, when in doubt CCP don't post or post things like "it is not an EULA violation but it is frowned upon".
Wrangler post seem much more liberatory about this issue.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 09:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8215388 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#124 Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 03/07/2008 06:54:24

Quote:

1) Wrangler as spoke for CCP saying tha twhat was done in Jita is not an exploit. I suppose that they have checked the log and have much more informations than you or me.

See below.

Quote:

2) You and a lot of Caladari sympathizers say "It is an exploit, it is not possible to do it without using an exploit".

Exploit!=broken game mechanic.
Broken game mechanic (kinda) == Unintentional side effect of a game mechanic.

An exploit is something you get banned for. Nobody's been banned for this. I don't want anyone banned for this. I want to know what this mechanic is mostly so I can make a personal judgement about it. I'm not innocent of using broken game mechanics which aren't exploits (MWD/cloak warpoff), but there are some I despise also (logoffski/emergency warp hopping).

If CCP came out and said "If you destroy the Navy spawn which comes for you, the next doesn't appear for another hour" I'd be ok with that. If they are permajamming, permatanking, speed tanking or whatever I'm cool with that too.

Just because "I can do it too" doesn't make it a mechanic that doesn't need fixing. In that vein, I wouldn't disagree if MWD/cloak warping got fixed.

Even if this is aggro-transferral (which I've been reassured it's not) by getting your allies NPC spawns to aggro one ship and having them tank/evade everything, as cheesy as it is I'd be cool with that too.

If this is something downright ******** like dropping drones at a safespot (thus my question which is still unanswered "What are the Navy NPCs shooting at continuously" when someone is idling in hostile space), I'll maintain my stance that it's ridiculously stupid and should be fixed, and I'm not really cool with it being in the game. But it's not an exploit, and I've never claimed it to be an exploit, as there's nothing exploitive about, if this were the tactic, launching some drones and then freeing yourself of control by warping off, but I'd still maintain that the tactic is downright broken and just not in the spirit of the game.

Quote:

3) So you are convinced that CCP is cheating to help the Gallente militia or you are convinced that they are incompetent. Care to explain what of the two is your opinion?

I think you've got me confused with masternerdguy here. I don't believe CCP is cheating one bit, nor do I say it anywhere in my post.

PS: Find me exactly where I said "This is an exploit" and I'll stand completely on my stance of not calling this an exploit. But it has to be those words. Anything like "Something isn't right here" or along the same lines is just me speculating on what could be a broken game mechanic.
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 06:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8214785 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#123

Originally by: Lord Blandness

We already knew it wasn't an exploit from Wranglers post, I just want to know what they are doing, so spill the beans Skunk.

Plenty of your friend here think differently.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 06:34:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8214708 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#122

Originally by: Jmanis Catharg

From the Dev Blog

Quote:
The Navies have finally twigged that two frigates and a cruiser aren't really a significant threat these days, so they've upgraded their rapid response teams. Considerably. They won't scramble, but if you hang around expect to get hurt. (Sentry guns, CONCORD, Customs and Police will all leave you alone though, provided you don't do anything to antagonize them).

Bolded the important bit. People from opposing factions are hanging around and not getting hurt.

My test kestrel got insta-popped by a faction BS, so I imagine the falcon, claw, hawk and all those assault frigates wouldn't last long under fire from their respective factional navy spawns.

But maybe this is all just a wording issue. If it's *not* a wording issue, I'd like to see how anyone can equate sitting in a hostile system without taking any damage, much less a lock at "hanging round and getting hurt".

If it is a wording issue, then what is it? If you hang around solo expect to get hurt, if you come as a gang you'll have to wait till they catch your mate?

And I don't care if it's 'revealing your tactics', if you're not providing solid fact to show you're not doing anything untoward then gtfo to be honest, because that dev blog pretty much reads to me that if you're not having to *personally* dodge npcs or tank some damage (and mounting all that NPC response onto one character, if possible, is not *personally*), then something untoward is going on. If all you guys are tanking/spider tanking spawns, destroying spawns, speedtanking spawns, permajamming spawns, fine. Keep it up. But I find it incredibly hard to believe that all those different ships in that picture could each be tanking a 2 BS, 2 Frig and 2 Cruiser spawn you get in Jita (iirc).

On an aside too, I've considered the neutral-remote-repper idea, but I don't want to do that because it's pretty lame, and I'd hope the game mechanics wouldn't allow it without repercussions (though i imagine it does allow it)

Quote:
Well Sid, Your post, is the first rational approach I've seen thus far, and in saying that.. ALL Caldari should listen up..ANYONE can do this! 07 Sid

Doesn't mean it's healthy for the game. Suddenly it's revealed that there's a bug you can use to get a polaris frigate. ANYONE CAN DO IT, so it mustn't be a problem. Next thing you know, the only way to stand a chance in combat is to fly one of those, everybody is doing it and the game devolves to a pile of toilet sweepings.

Let alone the wild guessing game Akita and I are doing and look the know fact.

1) Wrangler as spoke for CCP saying tha twhat was done in Jita is not an exploit. I suppose that they have checked the log and have much more informations than you or me.

2) You and a lot of Caladari sympathizers say "It is an exploit, it is not possible to do it without using an exploit".

3) So you are convinced that CCP is cheating to help the Gallente militia or you are convinced that they are incompetent. Care to explain what of the two is your opinion?

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 06:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8214707 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=5#121 Edited by: Venkul Mul on 03/07/2008 06:12:43

Originally by: Market AltLOLOLOLO

Issue is about the 2-3 compleatly dubious methods used. The only legal method is shooting under NPC fire or before NPC turn up.

Curious, Wrangler say that the method used is legit.

Are you a higher up in CCP overruling his statement?

Originally by: Market AltLOLOLOLO

You can prevent Navy from ever turning up. Another method is to stop navy every targeting you, which is exactly the same as the old Concord not firing bug from a while back

At the end of the day you don't know what method was used in Jita, but apparently it is none of those as it has deemed "not an exploit". Curious how you have missed that post with ble bars.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 06:11:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8214706 <![CDATA[FW question - by Venkul Mul]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#120

Originally by: Ulstan

Quote:
I love people that do this kind of game with numbers. 20-50 seconds is almost a minute, with a minute people can klll afk haulers. Have you noticed that you have multiplied the time between x3 and x1,2?

I you seriously going to argue that my rounding 50s up to a minute is more egregious than your rounding it down to 0s and claiming it's exactly the same as instant exploding?

Seeing as there are some fixed delay, I say that 20 second is not different from 0.

Warp in, load the grid, select target of opportunity (if there is one), lock target (no gangmates assisting you, so only your ship speed and locking bonus), start firing, warp away. What you can really do? Firing 2 gun volley against a hauler? Doing 0 damage with a missile ship as it will start warp before the missiles hit? Launch drones that will then be abandoned while you warp away?

A total of 20-50 seconds between warp in and warp out mean that missiles and drones are useless. Guns even in the best hypothesis will fire very few volley (and you need a non combatant alt to know what is the target to select so that it is possible to concentrate fire and maybe destroy something). Practically the only target that can conceivably be locked and destroyed in that timeframe (as you will almost certainly need to use BC to survive the full 50 seconds) is a T1 hauler or a barge/exumer.

Frigates would be easier to destroy but the locking time would allow it only if you are using a ship pimped for fast lock, so gimping your tank for the shield tanking races.

On the other hand pimping an armor tanked ship for tank will increase warping time and so reduce time on target. adding between 40 and 10 seconds to that time add several volleys, as the fixed delays will be at the start of the on site time.

So yes increasing time to 1 minute is a bigger difference than paragoning 20 seconds to 0.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 06:01:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8214614 <![CDATA[FW question - by Corduroy Rab]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#119 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 04:35:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8214365 <![CDATA[FW question - by Lord Blandness]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#118

Originally by: Le Skunk

Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/07/2008 03:09:21

Well my alt lost a few ships in the process, but think Ive got this one working in some form Cool

The clues in the original picture

SKUNK

EDIT: If its what I did - its also not an exploit.

We already knew it wasn't an exploit from Wranglers post, I just want to know what they are doing, so spill the beans Skunk.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 03:16:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8214089 <![CDATA[FW question - by Le Skunk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#117 Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/07/2008 03:09:21

Well my alt lost a few ships in the process, but think Ive got this one working in some form Cool

The clues in the original picture

SKUNK

EDIT: If its what I did - its also not an exploit.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 03:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8214088 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#116

Quote:

You assume they were shooting at each member of the gang, which is why I asked "Shooting at what?". Because now my suspicions are aroused that you warp somewhere, engage the navy with drones, release control of them then warp off, leaving the navy spawn combating the drones for a few minutes giving you free reign to do whatever. Once again,, tactics? Maybe. Stupid? Yes.

If I was fighting someone, I wouldn't hang round fighting their drones if they ran away, I'd chase them.

PS. If you're wondering why I'm speculating and not saying "I did this and this happened" it's because I don't have access to a client atm.
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 02:46:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213955 <![CDATA[FW question - by Ulstan]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#115 Edited by: Ulstan on 03/07/2008 02:44:11

Quote:
now the odd part. In an Anathama cloaked at the mad gate I watched them operate for a while. Huginn sitting on the gate at 0km, rest of fleet at various distance warping in and out. 8 Saram Navy ships 10km out from the gate and not attacking the Huginn. Huginn never warped or moved. Seemed odd so petitioned it.

And stuff like this is pretty clearly not working as intended. If it was deliberate on the Huginn's part, it would be an exploit. Petitioning it is the right response.

The defense so far seems to be "Most of our fleet can sit around just fine without interference or worry about the NPC navy, but since someone somewhere is being chased by them, it's working as intended"

This seems a rather dubious line of defense to me.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 02:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213954 <![CDATA[FW question - by Urtok]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#113

WoW killer. No, not a joke...really...why won't you belive me!!!!]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 02:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213838 <![CDATA[FW question - by Lord Blandness]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#114

Originally by: Galyrion

Originally by: Lord Blandness
Originally by: Galyrion
Being a part of the mentioned gang in amarr space I find it funny how people keep forgetting one thing. They signed up for war so what do they expect? This feature was not implemented to make highsec space a "warfree zone". I have had my fair share of hatemails the last few days from people apparently not knowing they are at war. And to answer a few, I have never seen navy not spawning in highsec hostile space.

Could you elaborate? Because people are saying you sat on the gate for 20 mins w/o being shot at. Are they telling the truth, or were they missing something? Did you out-fly the navy, or use a trick of some sort? I'm not judging you guys, I am just curious.

The navy was shooting for the entire time we were present in the system with the same mechanics used in jita at a larger scale

Interesting, so they were shooting each member of your gang, and presumably nos'ing each member, and yet you (Prison Break Inc) and The Dead Parrot Shoppe have found a way to tank them. All I gotta say is hats off to those two corps for figuring out this riddle, nice job gents.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 02:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213839 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#112

Quote:

The navy was shooting for the entire time we were present in the system with the same mechanics used in jita at a larger scale

Shooting at what?
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 02:03:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213807 <![CDATA[FW question - by Galyrion]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#111

Originally by: Lord Blandness

Originally by: Galyrion
Being a part of the mentioned gang in amarr space I find it funny how people keep forgetting one thing. They signed up for war so what do they expect? This feature was not implemented to make highsec space a "warfree zone". I have had my fair share of hatemails the last few days from people apparently not knowing they are at war. And to answer a few, I have never seen navy not spawning in highsec hostile space.

The navy was shooting for the entire time we were present in the system with the same mechanics used in jita at a larger scale
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 02:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213806 <![CDATA[FW question - by Lord Blandness]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#110 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 01:59:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213805 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#109

Quote:

They signed up for war so what do they expect? This feature was not implemented to make highsec space a "warfree zone". I have had my fair share of hatemails the last few days from people apparently not knowing they are at war. And to answer a few, I have never seen navy not spawning in highsec hostile space.

I don't claim that it was meant to make it war-free. How I imagined it to work tbh was along the lines of this:

0.5: You can take a properly kitted frigate and upwards and stand a chance vs navy spawns. If you took in a BS you'd be stomping any NPC spawns.

0.6: A pimped frigate or dessie might stand a chance, cruisers and BS are the go for safety sake.

0.7: You'll want nothing smaller than a battlecruiser or some decent T2 to venture in. Anything else is asking for either an instapop (frigates) or every minute your alive is pretty lucky (cruisers).

0.8: You could take a pretty decked out BS or uber-tanked BC in, but all it'd take would be one opposing faction pilot to ruin your day.

0.9: You want to be in a gang with some nifty spider-tanking tactics and logistics with big DPS *and* tanking. You won't be lasting long if you're not damn good.

1.0: Nigh on impenetrable.

Jita is what, 0.7, 0.8? I forget, but if you read that, that'd still allow what the Gallente Militia are doing now to occur, it'd just make it a lot harder. Yeah the navy NPC's aren't the next concord, but they're supposed to put up a fight. But all that sec-level related stuff is theorycrafting anyway, and not the actual game mechanics.

My point is if you're sitting on the gate for a reasonable amount of time without taking damage, that's quite different to CCP's claims of "If you hang around expect to get hurt".

Quote:
And to answer a few, I have never seen navy not spawning in highsec hostile space.

And I'll bet you're right. But plenty of people have seen the navy ignoring WT's too.
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 01:55:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213771 <![CDATA[FW question - by Lord Blandness]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#108

Originally by: Galyrion

Could you elaborate? Because people are saying you sat on the gate for 20 mins w/o being shot at. Are they telling the truth, or were they missing something? Did you out-fly the navy, or use a trick of some sort? I'm not judging you guys, I am just curious.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 01:52:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213770 <![CDATA[FW question - by Galyrion]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#107 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 01:37:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213738 <![CDATA[FW question - by Lord Blandness]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#106 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 01:23:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213658 <![CDATA[FW question - by Jmanis Catharg]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#105

Quote:

Please explain to me how a lone stationary War Target can do this and it be considered "working as intended"?

This, combined with the devblog I quoted.

This is not "working as intended", and saying it's fine because we (the Caldari Militia) can do it too is just smokescreening an actual issue with the system.
---

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.

]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 01:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213552 <![CDATA[FW question - by 00110000]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#103 ]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 00:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213493 <![CDATA[FW question - by masternerdguy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#104

Originally by: 00110000

I just saw a report where Jita was on the "Most Dangerous Systems" list. :)

yes it marks a turning point....
the day gallente terrorists threaten the peaceful and prosperous systen if jita.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 00:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213494 <![CDATA[FW question - by Urtok]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#102
now the odd part. In an Anathama cloaked at the mad gate I watched them operate for a while. Huginn sitting on the gate at 0km, rest of fleet at various distance warping in and out. 8 Saram Navy ships 10km out from the gate and not attacking the Huginn. Huginn never warped or moved. Seemed odd so petitioned it.

Later the Caldari Militia formed a small fleet to respond (Caldari protecting our trade route to Amarr markets for the Amarr in Amarr sov space). We tangled with them off the gate and Saram Navy response was normal and expected they came and they shot at the WTs. Later reports found out they chased one WT in a cerb to a SS and destroyed the cerb. Confirmed because I say the pilot leave the system in a pod while his friends left in their ships so they were not leaving them in the system.

Every thing about the engagement was normal and as expected EXCEPT for the beginning where the Huginn sitting at the gate and not being agressed by the Saram Navy.

Reports about the Jita incident had HACs/T2 cruisers sitting at the gates and the rest of the fleet warping to the gate sitters using fleetwarps. The gate sitters were also reported as not being agressed by the Caladri Navy.

The lone gate sitter I observed were not moving so no speedtanking eventhough the Huginn was a nano. No spider tanking, he was alone. Just sitting at the gate at 0km not a care in the world even thought 8 faction navy was just 10km distance.

Please explain to me how a lone stationary War Target can do this and it be considered "working as intended"?

WoW killer. No, not a joke...really...why won't you belive me!!!!]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 00:35:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213389 <![CDATA[FW question - by Cyno Sid]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#101 Edited by: Cyno Sid on 03/07/2008 00:34:28
Edited by: Cyno Sid on 03/07/2008 00:31:11
I'm not saying this is an exploit or it isn't. Until I know how they are doing it I can't comment or should the masses - after all, how many new players have shouted hax when u uncloked a ship next to them and blew them out the sky. Just because you don't know how to do it doesn't mean its an exploit.

I'm also not saying if its right or wrong. It brings a new dimesion to FW which may be good or it may be bad. Once we've figured out how they are doing it then we can see if it can be couterattacted (not sure if thats a word but its late and it do)

Some more things I know - its not about docking and undocking - spawns still there when u come out.

It's not about jumping out of your ship, switching ships, logging off etc. Tried all those.

Neutral repping - again highly unlikely. We couldn't tank one BS with 3 logistics so how can you possibly tank 20 ships - with a fleet of 60 logistics !!! don't think so but might be wrong (plus I saw the guy on the gate and he didn't need to tank anything so its not about neutral tanking)

So come on, lets figure it out togther and then comment upon it. There's no point second guessing hows it done and then giving solutions when you don't actually know what they are doing. Likewise, there's no point judging them again until we have figured it out.

Yes its not what I expected, yes, it seems unfair especially when I can't do it Smile

but if they can figure it out so can we.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 00:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213388 <![CDATA[FW question - by masternerdguy]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#100

Originally by: Kery Syander

Yeah, I'm gonna join the lulz of people getting upset about signing up for factional warfare and then being upset when they die in highsec. What exactly from CCP made you think that this would be IMPOSSIBLE? Laughing

Also, to all the people foaming blindly about how CCP has said this isn't an exploit... well CCP also called POS bowling and BACON not exploits at one time or another. Laughing

i think its a developer tipping things into a faction's favor, the next bob thing. if im wrong i apologize.
]]> Thu, 3 Jul 2009 00:12:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8213290 <![CDATA[FW question - by Kery Syander]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812120&page=4#99