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EVE-Search ForumWatch http://eve-search.com/ The alternative EVE-Online Forum browser. en-us Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:00:00 +0000 EVE-Search RSS Module v1.1 chribba@evemail <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Malcanis]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#44

Originally by: MotherMoon

Edited by: MotherMoon on 01/07/2008 03:55:21

Originally by: Berious
Getting rid of learning skills might not be a bad idea. They are a total no brainer to train, it's not like other skills where you train however to customise your character. It's a "fun tax" when you're just starting out which isn't very good if you're trying to show newbies a good time.

bam! that gives a huge disadvantage to players who regularly risk podding. Your idea provides an even greater incentive to huddle in hi-sec.
]]> Fri, 26 Sep 2009 15:39:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8828315 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Lia Gaeren]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#43

Originally by: Get Sum

I have always thought of EVE as a second-stage MMO game - the kind of game you come to when you're worn out with the 'accessible' and easy games like WoW which are out there. That kind of 'newbie' isn't looking for more spoonfeeding, they want a challenging game, and that's what EVE is. Yes it is a cool game, but I would be wary of recommending it to someone entirely new to the genre. Let them get their feet wet in more accessible games first.

I've been playing MMOs for over 10 years now (Meridian 59, EverQuest, Asheron's Call, DAoC, Horizons, and even WoW, before coming to EVE) and I had no trouble at all adjusting to the way the game works. I would rather need to train something for a long time to be good at it than to be automatically good at everything - otherwise the training is worthless and the game becomes boring with everyone good at everything. For me, WoW's problem is exactly that - every class is capable of soloing, admittedly some better than others, which makes it pretty dull and blurs the line between the classes.
]]> Thu, 25 Sep 2009 07:34:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8819871 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Get Sum]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#42

Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO

I created this character the other day to just go get the basic pvp skills for tackling and frigate combat stuff, so I got to see the game from the new player perspective again.

The 3x skills on my main train about as fast as a 1x skill on this piece of shit.

This is the first thing a new player experiences when they come into the game, assuming they have a tutor sitting behind them, telling them what to do, then they know what to train in order to fly x ship and use x module, if they even know what modules to use. Which takes a tutor.

Time and time again I hear from people that tried out eve only to be bored to tears during the first couple days, and then never logged on again. And honestly, why should they? CCP's response to the barrier of entry has always been "cry more eve is harsh" and this is to people that have just dipped their toe in the kiddy pool.

This is EXACTLY my thinking! One of the best posts I read in months...

For all people flame about wow and co. on these forums, there is one thing to be said for them: Accessability

Now, I'm not saying get rid of the skill-system alltogether, because EVE is pretty much based on it. But like Maximum I started an alt recently and thought back to being a noob, how much it sucked then and how much more it must suck now...
As a noob you see all the cool stuff and can't wait to play, only to find out that to do ANYTHING at a semi-competitive-level will take them literally MONTHS to attain (and that's a HIGHLY specialized character, not a good character with some versatility), without them even being able to accellerate the process...

I'm sure the devs realize at least to some extent that the hole grows ever larger... But I wonder whether they can look through their blinders enough to save EVE from it's slooooow, agonizing slip into obscurity...
]]> Thu, 25 Sep 2009 02:32:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8818964 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Brocky]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#41 what do most people do for the first 15-17 years of their life? do i hear someone say school? if they want something easy, something that requires no skill and absolutely 0 planning? to this is say GO PLAY WOW!(World of Warcraft for those that dont know)
with eve, as with everything you do in real life, requires some thought, some planning. why is this concept such a shock to everyone?
King Of The Mountain]]> Tue, 23 Sep 2009 12:44:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8808405 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Lubimchik]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#40 Edited by: Lubimchik on 14/08/2008 18:16:53

Originally by: Suvliana
drops, etc. Shut the **** up. This is a game. It is not meant to be fair.

LMFAO!

Originally by: Suvliana

I personally can't deal with whiners. They simply complain about something they don't want to train for 6 months to have. Well, I had to train for 6 ****ing months to t2 fit my rapier! I want to enjoy it, not have some snotnosed brat who started yesterday be able to compete with me!

Is that not what your doing now? Whining about whiners? Yeah GG on the /fail to you for being someone you hate your self!

Dude are you serious? This coming from a matar? I bet you got a super hyped up vagabon that can do like 1billion km/s.

I love people who are whining about the speed changes and don't even understand the fact that their nanoed out vagabon and snake implants are still gonna get their ship cruising pretty freaking fast..

Your thread just drips of uninformed, quickly posted, out of frustration crap! Yes straight up utter crap. In every way form and fashion, have you even logged into the test server to try out the speed changes, or did you just come in here whining that your 6 month old training is going to be ruined.. OMG you mean the ship is now going to do what it was met to do?!!?!?!?

THEY ARE NERFING ALL SHIPS SPEEDS, THAT MEANS IF YOUR SHIP WENT FASTER THEN OTHER SHIPS IT WILL SILL STILL GO FASTER THEN OTHER SHIPS!!!!!!!!!

Well with the inty not included of course.

They are simply making it a bit harder to run out of range in like .4 secounds, and so that you cant out run missiles, sense missiles damage is modified via speed and target size, instead of a hit or miss like turrets...

OHH YEAH!

You guys who complain about training for so long for nano ships.. you KNEW they were broken when you started training for them, thats why you trained for them... and yet now you whine that they are getting fixed... yeah well shouldnt have jumped on the bandwagon hey fan bois? Get over it adapt or stop playing.. personally I think that anyone who wants an unfair advantage or linear game play shouldnt be in eve..

so if you leave

can I have your stuff?

]]> Thu, 14 Aug 2009 18:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8535812 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Holy Lowlander]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#39
CCP just kicked the people that trained really long for t2 fitted nano ships with support skills right in the nuts, spit in their face and did it again.....

People should be able to train for something and expect it isn't nerfed till it doesn't move anymore (how ironic, move , nano nerf) when they are able to fly it....

CCP shouldn't nerf stuff , they should make more counters to it. That way the people that have trained their ass off for a cool ship + fittings still can fly their ships without stuff changed . And the whiners can train their asses off for counters to it.

Quote:
woot I wants a toy arbitrator !!! :O

]]> Thu, 14 Aug 2009 09:07:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8532616 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Qorrin]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#38 ]]> Wed, 13 Aug 2009 06:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8524503 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Mr Daytrading]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#37 Edited by: Mr Daytrading on 08/08/2008 15:17:02
When i read this i hear people whining. Whining people complaining about people that are whining,.. how ironic. I remember the first post-er of this tropic catching me in my heron afk scanning in a 0.4 mamouna system, wasting a very expensif set of implants. My own fault, but what the hell im not whining, where else u got merc's for Twisted Evil

]]> Fri, 8 Aug 2009 15:16:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8491400 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Taradis]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#36 Eve is time consuming yes but thats what makes it so much fun to play
]]> Thu, 7 Aug 2009 08:09:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8479965 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Tiranus Icvan]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#35 Edited by: Tiranus Icvan on 30/07/2008 00:32:33
I'm a newbie, I started playing this game last September (or was it October?) Anyway, I played the game for about a month and quickly got bored of it. I thought "Eh, all this skill training crap is too boring." (That's saying something, I'm normally patient.) So, about ten months later, I had a conversation with a guest (customer, I work at Target) who plays EVE. The advice he gave me, was to slow down on the learning skills, and train in stuff that you think would be fun.

I'm glad I talked to him, because I'm having more fun with EVE now than I had months ago. So just to reinforce what a lot of people are saying:

Don't take away skills, just educate newbies on doing what's fun rather than shoving learning skills down their throats. When they are necessary, they can always be returned to later.]]> Wed, 30 Jul 2009 00:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8412982 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Rhamnousia]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#34
It usually takes a person two weeks to complete learning skills. In that two weeks, said person will have to learn more about EVE and game mechanics than he will have to in the next three or four months of his EVE-life. Why is this two weeks important? It's the trial by fire for (allegedly) new players. EVE is a cold world, it mimics too much of the real world because pilots are allowed to scam, cheat, steal as long as that particular action does not involve an exploit, or against the EULA. About 60% of new players come to EVE never make it pass the trial by fire. It is a good thing. Look at the other alternative, WoW.

2- Whining is human nature.

You do it. I do it. He/she/it does it. Quit whining about me whining.

3- EVE stands for evolution. (not the corp, ugh)

Pilots in EVE evolve everyday. From a frigate pilot into a cruiser pilot. From a cruiser pilot into a BS pilot or a specialized interdictor pilot. It's the core of EVE that dictate the game. Sometimes, the game reach a period of stagnant, evolution slows down. And we stuck with massive blob of hundreds of players, cold war between two powerhouses, alliance after alliance pour their resources in supercapital ships. But, somewhere in the galaxy, in some dark corner of space, one pilot come up with a tactic now widely known as nano***gotry, which involve small number of pilots fitting exclusive for speed for hit-and-run operation deep in the enemy territories. This cycle of evolution, this mutation has spread. Most pilots adapt to this tactic, some stand resilient against it. Most fail and whine, some succeed and hold their heads high.

Soon, nano***gotry will no longer be the trendy thing to do. This tactic will mutate to something else, for better or for worse. And the cycle of evolution continues to turn.

This ain't Burger King, you can't always have it your way.
----------------------
What happens in Pelennor stays in Pelennor.

Forever Pelennor]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2009 07:12:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8405485 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Natalia Kovac]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#33

Originally by: Ishkur

I'm sorry, Lia Gaeren, but you apparently do not understand how to play a MMORPG. In short, you have played EVE incorrectly. Please delete your character and start over, and play the game properly this time.

1. Create only the race/class/schools that are going to give you the leg up you need for day 1.
2. Train all learning skills in the exact order as dictated by EVEMON. It's best if you can set aside a week or two to be at your computer 24/7.
3. Only train skills necessary for the particular task you are going to perform. It is best if you can narrow this down exactly ahead of time, including exactly which mods you will equip on your ship.
4. Have absolutely no fun whatsoever, this is not allowed.

/sarcasm

I agree entirely, Lia Gaeren. I don't agree with the OP because they are a little too #4 for my taste. And I don't really agree with the idea of removing Learning skills (I like the idea of adding new ones though, or even a tertiary (new) attribute to skills!).

Learning skills are a great time sink for players who like time sinks and min-maxing and being uber efficient. There are lots of you, and that's okay.

For the rest of us, they are an interesting way to speed things up at some distant point in the future but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Last night I was training Eidetic Memory but I decided I wanted to play with a Destroyer (HERESY!) and so I trained up Destroyers real quick! Embarassed

I know, I'm a total noob. I did something I thought would be fun. Shoot me!

I HATE learning skills tbh. I have V in all basic and IV in all advanced. Also +4s in most of the time. Yet those IVs bug me. I want to waste the two months training them despite the fact that I know they will not repay the time spent inside two or three years. Argh!!
Also I think level V skills take too long, but I don't think that can really be changed now.

Instant +10 to all characters and refunded points spent on learning to spend on whatever we want would be a dream come true. Of course this will never happen. A man can dream though... A man can dream.
]]> Mon, 28 Jul 2009 04:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8395964 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Corrock]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#32

Originally by: AltBier

Originally by: Berious
Getting rid of learning skills might not be a bad idea. They are a total no brainer to train, it's not like other skills where you train however to customise your character. It's a "fun tax" when you're just starting out which isn't very good if you're trying to show newbies a good time.

QFT. Most MMPORPG's have a quick progression to 25% of max level, and after that there's a bit of grinding and slowing of progression. Of course, 25% of max level isn't anywhere close to 25% of the power of a character maxed out, so I really think EVE is still better in this respect. You can train quite a few things, and earn quite a lot of money (for a newb:) before anything but the quick, lower level learning skills will help you. And you don't have to do any grinding, other than for rep or isk. The skills, and your power in the game, improve even if you have an insane workweek/finals or whatever.

When I was a newb, last november, I was given two pieces of advice that were pure gold: 1, you only need to train learnings to 3, then train the stuff you need (all lower learnings -empathy to 3 takes 2 days, 7 hrs on a minmatar brutor slave child, all pts into perc/will, which is a worst case example. Everyone else will train them faster.) Go back later and finish them when you start training things higher. and 2, Salvage. By doing so I had a balance of candy and vegetables, and all the cash a newbie could want.

I have a corpie who started 2 days earlier than I did, and has like a million sp more than I do, since he started by maxing learnings out (5/4) 800k of that is in learning tho, and he has a "well-rounded" stat distribution. I'm finally taking the lower learnings to 5, however, and once I finish that, I'll be continuing to train the perc/will stuff almost exlusively, so it'll take me less than two months to pull ahead. Deciding where you want your character to go and specializing is something I actually gleaned from the forums:) Thanks all.

P.S. If a newbie doesn't have any clue, and just trains for the "next big ship," they're going to lose it, get frustrated, and leave just as fast as the bored newbie. We had new recruits who did just that, and despite our best advice, (which they were too impatient to follow), they lost too many ships they couldn't afford to, and left:( I just think CCP has come to the conclusion that, yes, if they could go back and make the perfect EVE, and scale it perfectly for newbies and vets alike, they would, but they can't, and they've accepted that as it is, the game is not for everyone.
]]> Fri, 25 Jul 2009 09:01:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8373033 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Jeirth]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=2#31

Originally by: Halycon Gamma

The reason so many people complain about the new character experience now days is very very simple. Eve isn't the same as when you all started. Oh, you may THINK its the same, minus a few odds and ends here and there. But really think about it. Every new system, every new mechanic, every new ship, every new module. Eve tends to progress at a rate faster than any other MMO I can think of, in the area of gameplay mechanics. And it all stacks. Everytime they add something, it gets exponentially harder for a new player to actually learn the game.

CCP really needs to just stop for a patch. Stop putting any new content or mechanics in, and just write an update of nothing but tutorials, explanations, and interactive in game guides. It would do more for their bottom line in subscriber base than any amount of advertising they do.

Because I really don't think the Devs, or any of the old players can really appreciate what the current learning curve of this game is. I've learned languages with less of a learning curve than eve has.

Agreed, some of the people starting, who HAVE completed the tutorials, don't know about right click on object or how to fly by the double click in space method, thats a problem.
]]> Fri, 25 Jul 2009 00:32:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8373032 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Ishkur]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#30

Originally by: Lia Gaeren

When I first started, I didn't really have a mentor telling me what skills to train. I started with the fun stuff, and it was fun. As the time went on, I started wanting to do more, and it was usually along the lines of: "Heck, I need a bit more CPU to be able to use that fitting." - "You do know there is a skill that increases CPU don't you?" and so on. I have followed that philosophy and still subscribe to it now - even with 35m SPs I'm still finding new "newbie skills" I have not trained yet, simply because I haven't needed to.

As for learning skills, I came across those almost by accident after 5 or 6 monbths of play time. Until then I hadn't really appreciated the way in which stats affected training time - I thought you needed them to actually fly better. I started to intersperse them with the fun things - one fun skill, then one learning skill, one fun skill... and so on. And they eventually got done. I saved the higher echelons of those skills for times when I was too busy in RL to log on for any length of time.

My point is that as experienced players, we already know the short cuts. However, EVE is about discovery. The main barrier for new players in any established MMORPG is the incredibly steep learning curve (I seriously pity any new players starting Everquest now, with its 14 expansions) which is a natural process of devs adding cool new stuff. Sometimes it's better not to try and tell new players *all* the short cuts, let them ask in their own time. Sure, learning skills make them learn skills faster, but if they don't know about them, they won't worry about them.

I personally think they should stay. Learning skills are only good for the long term player. But you don't get a long term player without letting them get hooked right at the start. If they want to learn fun stuff first, let them, and let them have fun. Save the learning skills until they develop the more philosophical long-term view of skill training - I regularly train skills that take several weeks these days (52 skills at level 5 and counting!), when I first started I'd go stir crazy if I even had to wait a couple of days to see a new skill.

I have waffled here, for which sorry - but I gotta get ready for work and have no more time to go back and edit for legibility. Sorry bout that :)

I know, I'm a total noob. I did something I thought would be fun. Shoot me!

]]> Tue, 22 Jul 2009 18:19:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8353784 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by I SoStoned]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#29 ]]> Tue, 22 Jul 2009 16:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8352903 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by AltBier]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#28

Originally by: Berious
Getting rid of learning skills might not be a bad idea. They are a total no brainer to train, it's not like other skills where you train however to customise your character. It's a "fun tax" when you're just starting out which isn't very good if you're trying to show newbies a good time.

All that needs to happen is that people STOP telling noobs: "train all learning skills before doing anything else".
Instead tell them to first train up simple rank 1 & 2 skills which let them fly better ships and do fun stuff. Once you start learning more advanced skills, then you can train up the basic learning skills and later on the more advanced learning skills.

]]> Mon, 21 Jul 2009 11:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8343635 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by MotherMoon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#27

]]> Mon, 21 Jul 2009 06:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8342163 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Lia Gaeren]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#26

Originally by: MirrorGod

This, tbh.

Funny

]]> Wed, 16 Jul 2009 20:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8313718 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Creepin]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#25
]]> Wed, 16 Jul 2009 14:06:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8310800 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by MirrorGod]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#24

Originally by: Halycon Gamma

This, tbh.

Recruitment: [ANTI]
]]> Wed, 16 Jul 2009 09:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8309199 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by MirrorGod]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#23

Recruitment: [ANTI]
]]> Wed, 16 Jul 2009 09:46:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8309198 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Kalahari Wayrest]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#22

Quote:

This is a game. It is not meant to be fair. I think I seen someone post about getting rid of learning skills? Why? Just cause your new and want to have it your way?

Quote:
Ok, Im talking about nano ships and all you whiners out there and this goes into learning skills? I could not give a flying **** about learning skills!

If you didn't want people to talk about it, you shouldn't have brought it up in your OP Laughing

Oh, and...you're whining about whiners Surprised

__________________________
Indulge Me
Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥
Wow immy scored Shocked

- Xorus
]]> Tue, 15 Jul 2009 23:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8306700 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Galactic Tycoon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#21
I honestly am shocked you'd get so stressed out over someone complaining in a forum! Give it a rest, take a deep breath and relax.

Whinners will always moan and if they do, what's it to you? If it makes them feel better leave them be and stop breathing fire over it ffs. I doubt every player including you has never once moaned about something in his EVE life. That wouldn't be unusual, the game isn't perfect.
]]> Mon, 14 Jul 2009 03:22:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8291886 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Le Mortnoir]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#20 However people are entitled to their opinion, and I dont have a problem if a valid coherent agrument is put forward. What I do find odd is the (might have been intentional) heavy irony in the OP. You may not like the idea of the Learning Skill Sets being removed but you could surely express yourself a little better, youre not only whining yourself about something. You also shot yourself in the foot with;

Quote:
This is a game. It is not meant to be fair.

So any argument of well we had to train them, is invalidated by your above statement, because as you said its not ment to be fair.

]]> Sun, 13 Jul 2009 02:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8284891 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Vega Alioth]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#19 vega
]]> Sat, 12 Jul 2009 18:35:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8282682 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Suvliana]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#18
Keep the post on track. I don't want to hear your whining about learning skills.

Props to my nano bro's who keep ****ing everyone else off.

Suvliana
]]> Sat, 12 Jul 2009 12:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8280905 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Aria Seniste]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#17
They aren't really "optional" unless you like taking too long to train skills. With a few levels of them you'll end up ahead within a couple weeks. Anyone saying "I did it, stop whining." is just bitter. Having to train learning skills adds nothing to the game. It does not add difficulty. It's not something they have to work for.. it's just a waiting period. At the worst possible time.

You want to immerse new players as quickly as possible. This means letting them play and noticeably advance... rather than spending their entire trial -waiting- to advance. Just give everyone the equivalent of 5/5 learning skills. No one loses anything; most of us gain, and would not complain for it.

On an unrelated note, I think a true "mentor" is probably the worst thing for a new player in EVE. The learning curve is steep, but the "mentor" is going to try to maximize the efficiency of the new player... not the new players ability to enjoy the game. Sure, rushing learning skills is fine if you're making an alt, but for a new player it's a drudge. I think I would have grown bored with EVE rapidly if I'd not discovered things on my own... and been told to grind straight into higher missions for isk, get this ship, train these skills, etc...

Instead, I trained straight into assault ships, and tried to gank a Vagabond in my 1M sp rifter in a .3. And had a hell of a lot of fun doing it. Laughing

]]> Fri, 11 Jul 2009 03:53:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8271401 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Nakimoto]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#16 ]]> Wed, 9 Jul 2009 05:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8255606 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Belmarduk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#15 CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
]]> Tue, 8 Jul 2009 10:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8249021 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Ava Santiago]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#14
They must stay.

Career explanations with optimized tree paths (by faction) need to be made available in the FAQ's somewhere. Note that these optimized skills paths are not likely to include "learning" skills.

For example, the optimization for a Caldari Pilot mission runner. Provide a list of prioritized skills for mission running, Ship, Weapons, Tank, etc. But design it so someone following that career path will have nothing but that skill set. This kind of "path" would be very helpful for a newcomer, and some of us vets might find useful information for career paths we have not yet picked up. - The point of course would be to lower the learning curve.
Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts. ]]> Sat, 5 Jul 2009 17:52:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8230074 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Halycon Gamma]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#13
CCP really needs to just stop for a patch. Stop putting any new content or mechanics in, and just write an update of nothing but tutorials, explanations, and interactive in game guides. It would do more for their bottom line in subscriber base than any amount of advertising they do.

Because I really don't think the Devs, or any of the old players can really appreciate what the current learning curve of this game is. I've learned languages with less of a learning curve than eve has.]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 09:28:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8201364 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Darth Vaders]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#12 Edited by: Darth Vaders on 01/07/2008 09:11:07
When i started this game about 1 year ago i was thinking that i probably hate it and i will never return after the trial expiration.

Well, within 2 days i had signed for a real account. Very Happy

I dealt with the leraning skills a sa feature that in course of time will help me gain some time. But i realised that i wouldn't need to train them too much at the beggining since they don;t count so much if you plan to train the basic skills till lvl 3. So i trained them a bit but i didn't spend my first 2 weeks training only them.

You are not oblidged to train the learning skills. I didn't at first and haven't regreted for doing so. But i dealt with them as a cool feature that will help me gain skillpoints faster. Nothing more, nothing less.

The approach that is a "must" to train them and you must not train anything else before train them is not very valid for me. All in all i may have lost about 1 week of training just because i didn't train the learning skills at the very beginning. No big deal.... What matters is that i absolutly enjoyed this game from day 1.

I think some people get too obsessed with numbers. You can train all the basic learning skills just to lvl 3 and then train the other basic stuff. It will give you a serious ability boost without wrecking your fun. I don't see what is this whine all about.

]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 09:09:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8201289 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Void Monarch]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#11 ]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 08:59:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8201261 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#10
Some people are fine with it, others hate it and think it ruins the new player experience.
Thats an easy compromise.
Those that "don't mind" the learning skills wouldn't feel anywhere near as strongly about them being removed as others feel about their current existence.

I love them | I like them | I don't care | I don't like them | I hate them | I lost interest because of them

How many people fit into which category? I think you'd find few people who love them, and many who hate them, and im guessing thousands of people that have stopped playing eve due to them ruining their initial eve experience.

So for a lot of people its a lot more important than the fact that those of us who play were able to cope. (obviously, cause we play) But then, we're the only ones posting here. You won't see my brother posting here about it. (whome was once very excited about eve, until he started waiting to play the game)
]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 07:39:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8201019 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Void Monarch]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#9

Originally by: Lia Gaeren

post

QFT
Eve is all about a discovery.]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 07:23:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8200947 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Lia Gaeren]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#8
As for learning skills, I came across those almost by accident after 5 or 6 monbths of play time. Until then I hadn't really appreciated the way in which stats affected training time - I thought you needed them to actually fly better. I started to intersperse them with the fun things - one fun skill, then one learning skill, one fun skill... and so on. And they eventually got done. I saved the higher echelons of those skills for times when I was too busy in RL to log on for any length of time.

My point is that as experienced players, we already know the short cuts. However, EVE is about discovery. The main barrier for new players in any established MMORPG is the incredibly steep learning curve (I seriously pity any new players starting Everquest now, with its 14 expansions) which is a natural process of devs adding cool new stuff. Sometimes it's better not to try and tell new players *all* the short cuts, let them ask in their own time. Sure, learning skills make them learn skills faster, but if they don't know about them, they won't worry about them.

I personally think they should stay. Learning skills are only good for the long term player. But you don't get a long term player without letting them get hooked right at the start. If they want to learn fun stuff first, let them, and let them have fun. Save the learning skills until they develop the more philosophical long-term view of skill training - I regularly train skills that take several weeks these days (52 skills at level 5 and counting!), when I first started I'd go stir crazy if I even had to wait a couple of days to see a new skill.

I have waffled here, for which sorry - but I gotta get ready for work and have no more time to go back and edit for legibility. Sorry bout that :)
]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 07:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8200918 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Artemis Rose]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#7 ]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 07:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8200888 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#6

Originally by: MotherMoon

Edited by: MotherMoon on 01/07/2008 03:55:21

Originally by: Berious
Getting rid of learning skills might not be a bad idea. They are a total no brainer to train, it's not like other skills where you train however to customise your character. It's a "fun tax" when you're just starting out which isn't very good if you're trying to show newbies a good time.

Stat implants are another thing that hurt the game because it makes people far too careful. All newer players want to have stat implants. Obviously you can't sustain that if you keep getting podded, so they are ultra careful. They create carebears.

Stat implants are a carebear implant. They don't help you in pvp, or help you do anything better. They just make your pod cost millions more than it normally would. And they are very attractive to new players. (and do a great job at making new players avoid pvp)

The only new players that i've seen approach the game in the correct way are the goons, but thats because they did CCP's job for them and pretty much dictated what to do and what not to do and in what order. Like don't use any implants, you're going to die. And educate the player exactly what they are getting into with skill training and learning skills, what to expect, and how to approach it.
]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 05:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8200541 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#5
The 3x skills on my main train about as fast as a 1x skill on this piece of ****.

This is the first thing a new player experiences when they come into the game, assuming they have a tutor sitting behind them, telling them what to do, then they know what to train in order to fly x ship and use x module, if they even know what modules to use. Which takes a tutor.

Time and time again I hear from people that tried out eve only to be bored to tears during the first couple days, and then never logged on again. And honestly, why should they? CCP's response to the barrier of entry has always been "cry more eve is harsh" and this is to people that have just dipped their toe in the kiddy pool.

I don't know the overall metrics of eve, but i've personally tried to get both my brother and a colleague into eve.
After I explain learning skills to them, they both decided to take learning skills up first. Both lost any excitement they had for eve before they finished learning skills. I even suggested, hey look train a FUN skill so you can fly that ship you wanted to, but they insisted to stick with learning skills because its the smart thing to do. They stopped logging in to train their chars so I finished the learning skills for them.

Told them they're done with the learning skills, and they didn't give a **** anymore. Why should they. Their new player experience, the important time period where a game makes a lasting first impression on the player, was spent training up learning skills. Their lasting impression of eve is yawn.
They watch videos of hotdrops and gatecamps and all of the exciting **** that eve has, but thats not what they remember.
They remember doing some level 1 missions in a ****ty frigate with ****ty fittings waiting on some boring skills to train.

People come up to me while I play eve at work and like what they see. My main can do all kinds of cool ****. Cov-ops, recons, passive tank drakes, nano curse, interceptors, a second account with a fleet sniper battleship with excellent skills at it.

They want to be a part of it. They ask me to help them get into it. Now days, I suggest that they create an account, and let me create and train their character for 2 months before attempting to play. Of course none of them follow through with this because its a ridiculous proposition, but one that I believe in. Otherwise, they'd probably get bored to death and quit after a day or 2. Like that last 2 people I tried to get into eve.

To be honest though, eve's new character creation process needs a hell of a lot more than to delete the learning skills from the game.

Support skills. The skills that effect fitting and capacitor are essentials. These skills, like learning skills, aren't fun, they're just necessary. I can't fit my equipment without these, I can't operate my equipment without those. Not to mention they don't make any goddamn sense, but this is internet spaceships.

So yeah. There are things that aren't new player friendly. CCP should probably recognize these and do their best to make their game more fun, and focus less on making sure that the player earns that fun.
Eliminating learning skills would be a start, and proof that ccp actually cares.

Fake edit: I think you'd see vast improvements to eve if all the devs were forced to delete all of their characters and start as a new player, and make them play alongside someone thats never played eve before. Cool

]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 05:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8200540 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by MotherMoon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#4 Edited by: MotherMoon on 01/07/2008 03:55:21

Originally by: Berious
Getting rid of learning skills might not be a bad idea. They are a total no brainer to train, it's not like other skills where you train however to customise your character. It's a "fun tax" when you're just starting out which isn't very good if you're trying to show newbies a good time.

I've been playing for 3 years now I would love to see them go.

my simple idea was remove advanced skills and add in up to +10 implants.

replace all +5 implants with +10 and such so the + 10 isn't more expensive.

bam that takes literately 5 months of training time out the window.]]> Tue, 1 Jul 2009 03:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8200295 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Berious]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#3 Mon, 30 Jun 2009 21:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8198608 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Windjammer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047&page=1#2
Best regards,
Windjammer]]> Mon, 30 Jun 2009 19:33:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8197745 <![CDATA[Quit ******* with the Game. - by Suvliana]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=811047
To all you whiners of nanofaggotry, speed demons, hot drops, etc. Shut the **** up. This is a game. It is not meant to be fair. I think I seen someone post about getting rid of learning skills? Why? Just cause your new and want to have it your way? In everyone of these posts, there are people whining cause they cannot do it or they cannot catch them or cannot cyno jam, blah blah blah.

I am honestly quite sick of it. I can't fly a carrier. I had a Nyx hotdropped onto a station fight in low sec (Thank you Omen, beautiful site) and I got wasted. Ok, so I lost, next! I can use nano ships. I had a awesome arbitrator pilot (Nano'd btw) who came, webbed, pwn'd and left. I win, I lose. Such is the game. My goal in the game is to not have it fair. I don't want to be equal with everyone around me. I want unfair ganks, superior nano ships, etc. Makes you work for your fun. Some of us like 12KM/S Machariel's. Some of us like slow moving Hyperions' with 1200DPS tanks. How the **** do you catch 12KM/S or beat 1200DPS tanks? Use your ******* head!

This is a game where solo play and combined play come together. You choose your style. There are notices saying "If you jump into this system, anyone can blow your ass away with CONCORD saving you". Use what is around you and adapt.

I personally can't deal with whiners. They simply complain about something they don't want to train for 6 months to have. Well, I had to train for 6 ******* months to t2 fit my rapier! I want to enjoy it, not have some snotnosed brat who started yesterday be able to compete with me!

Anyways, I'm off to do something other than ***** on the forums.

Thanks for reading.

Suvliana]]> Mon, 30 Jun 2009 18:13:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8197222