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Out of System - by Deimi

Mon, 5 Jan 2009 02:24:00 +0000

Originally by: Sartaron
What i like about it: There would be some kind of "mystery-effect". Stuff you really have to look for... Eve is much to defined and there is too much known about the systems... Something "off-shore" would be cool

Yes this is the reason I like it also.
This idea, if realized, would bring back that 'sense of wonder' about space into this game.
And regardless of what been said by a few other players, we need that for the future of this game.

So please consider this proposal!

Is it a new forum rule. That for everyone posting something you don't agree on. You should accuse them of being a troll? ;)

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sat, 27 Dec 2009 18:06:00 +0000

Dump ballasts! take us up!
__________________________________________________
I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it!
I'm also training Minmatar Capitals!
And I eat Lions!

Out of System - by Ashley Thomas

Mon, 3 Nov 2009 00:45:00 +0000

how bout this, systems beyond 0.0 without gates. a cap class ship with jumpdrive that doesn't require cynos, but can't be targeted without one. to prevent abuse with the jumpdrive it would have a warm up period.

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 14:17:00 +0000

Originally by: Sigras
i guess i just worry about this system being dominated by pirates kinda like low sec is now . . . sure the mining is better out there but the risk to reward just isnt worth it.

and i like the idea of a base ship, but im thinking more of an advanced POS . . . the ability to dock is just a bit much for me . . . esp what happens to the docked pilots when the ship un-sieges?

But i think this is a really great idea, and again it does make more sense than the current exploration system which makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah I was actually thinking about that, instead of a mobile starbase, its more like a mobile pos, with all the basic items incorporated into one object. Sort of like a pos/capital hybrid
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Out of System - by Sigras

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 09:26:00 +0000

i guess i just worry about this system being dominated by pirates kinda like low sec is now . . . sure the mining is better out there but the risk to reward just isnt worth it.

and i like the idea of a base ship, but im thinking more of an advanced POS . . . the ability to dock is just a bit much for me . . . esp what happens to the docked pilots when the ship un-sieges?

But i think this is a really great idea, and again it does make more sense than the current exploration system which makes absolutely no sense.

Out of System - by Cheopis

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 07:12:00 +0000

Edited by: Cheopis on 02/11/2008 07:13:21

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
Originally by: Cheopis

Or perhaps NPC pirates might have the ability to drop their own beacon and send a message to anyone in the closest system that has good standing "Mayday. Under Attack. 2 battleships 4 cruisers visible. Warp to beacon ID "

I don't know, that might work, but I don't see why the npc rats would cry for help to the pod pilots. doesn't make too much sense.

Pod pilots with good standings. Not everyone. This would be another incentive for pirates to gain faction standings with pirate NPC corps - so they can get invited to fights

This would also mean that the deployed devices would need to be destroyable, or the risk of engaging a rats in deep space would be too high

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 07:02:00 +0000

Originally by: Cheopis

Or perhaps NPC pirates might have the ability to drop their own beacon and send a message to anyone in the closest system that has good standing "Mayday. Under Attack. 2 battleships 4 cruisers visible. Warp to beacon ID "

I don't know, that might work, but I don't see why the npc rats would cry for help to the pod pilots. doesn't make too much sense.

Originally by: Cheopis

Being able to explore out beyond the fringes of a solar system might be doable, but what you find out there should be in some way related to the security status of a system near it. You shouldn't find the same quality/value 2000 AU from Jita that you find 2000 AU from some -1.0 sec space in Fountain.

of course not, I think I mentioned that the stuff you find is based on the sec status of nearby systems, and the distance you are from them.
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Out of System - by Cheopis

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 06:59:00 +0000

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
well I was thinking about how pirates could find you, and a few things come to mind. First the pathfinder beacon, its lit up like a small star. It shouldn't be too hard to pick up with a decent scanner, if a normal ship in fleet with the pathfinder can pick it up 750 aus away, I think a scan probe could pick it up too. The same goes for the probes launched for the prospectors, and once your close to the fleet, its just a matter of patience. Of course, then the pirates run into the problem that most of the exploration fleet is tanked to survive a trip to hell and back, it would probably take the entire gang a while to drop one or two prospectors. So in order to kill anything, the pirates would have to be smart, sneak up on their base, watch for them to come back from a ratting run and hit them while their damaged, etc. It wouldn't be as simple as normal pirating, but it would be more rewarding. Its harder to do, but the payoff is greater, sounds fair to me.

Or perhaps NPC pirates might have the ability to drop their own beacon and send a message to anyone in the closest system that has good standing "Mayday. Under Attack. 2 battleships 4 cruisers visible. Warp to beacon ID "

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 06:54:00 +0000

well I was thinking about how pirates could find you, and a few things come to mind. First the pathfinder beacon, its lit up like a small star. It shouldn't be too hard to pick up with a decent scanner, if a normal ship in fleet with the pathfinder can pick it up 750 aus away, I think a scan probe could pick it up too. The same goes for the probes launched for the prospectors, and once your close to the fleet, its just a matter of patience. Of course, then the pirates run into the problem that most of the exploration fleet is tanked to survive a trip to hell and back, it would probably take the entire gang a while to drop one or two prospectors. So in order to kill anything, the pirates would have to be smart, sneak up on their base, watch for them to come back from a ratting run and hit them while their damaged, etc. It wouldn't be as simple as normal pirating, but it would be more rewarding. Its harder to do, but the payoff is greater, sounds fair to me.
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Out of System - by Cheopis

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 06:54:00 +0000

I think that most of what you want here could be generated by making the exploration sites more robust and more varied. I like a lot of what you say here, but to implement it as you wrote it, or even close, would be a huge endeavor.

Being able to explore out beyond the fringes of a solar system might be doable, but what you find out there should be in some way related to the security status of a system near it. You shouldn't find the same quality/value 2000 AU from Jita that you find 2000 AU from some -1.0 sec space in Fountain.

Going out beyond system boundaries should put you in the equivalent of 0.0 space, no matter what system you are in. Even around 1.0 security stars. The NPC defenders simply will not come to your aid, though perhaps standings might still take a hit. If standings can take hits, then rats should repair standings as well. In other words, if 0.0 space and lowsec is going to be marginalized by deep space exploration, then Pirates need something to do out there as well :)

All in all, I like the concept, but I don't think there needs to be a large amount of new content to make it work.

Out of System - by Sigras

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 06:26:00 +0000

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
There are a few things to remember when referring to the other exploration ships. Yes, its true, all you'd really need to do is get the baseship out there, then clone jump, however, in deep space, it would still be better to have the other T2 ships along with you. Remember, objects in deep space would be more spread out, harder to kill, and overall more dangerous, if you brought a normal battleship, it;d use all its cap to get out to the area its headed for, and when it gets there, its basically screwed because it can't tank the damage, and its cap is gone. The same goes with the Prospectors, yes, you could do it with other frigs, but Prospectors do it better, none of the exploration ships are needed, everything you do with them can be done with their T1 counterparts, they just do it better, faster, and more safely.

I see your point, but i guess that brings me to my next question; how easy/hard would it be for pirates to scan down your location . . . i mean within canon, its not going to be any harder . . . in fact it might be a bit easier than before because now you have more to look for . . . like i said, i love this system and i think its a great idea, i just dont want it to be one of those things that nobody tries because its ruled by the pirates *cough* shooting can stealers *couch* and if nobody will help you; its going to be just like low sec.

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
As for the baseship, I see the problem, and I think maybe the best solution would be to have it be its own class of ship, instead of a T2 carrier, its cost would be more then a carrier but less then a mom, maybe 2-3 bil including fittings.

interesting idea . . . i like it.

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 05:47:00 +0000

Originally by: Sigras
ok, now that im at my comp :D

LOVE this idea, absolutely love it, however, i dont think hidden solar systems are a viable option as eventually someone would have noticed a star that isn't on the map

also, while i love your idea for the pathfinder (excellent use for the tier 3 T2 BC hull) im not sold on the other two; i dont think they have a defined enough role, and they over complicate things more than i think they help. As far as the deep space mobile operation base i have mixed feelings; it is a GREAT ship, but the clone bay is a bad idea.

It basically eliminates the need for any other specialized ship because once the pathfinder gets there all it needs to do is call in the mobile base, wait for it to deploy and have the rest of the gang clone jump to it; instead maybe a refinery?

Also if they were T2 Carriers as you suggest, they would be uber expensive (were talking mothership or Titan expensive) and extremely hard to train for, (beyond what Titans are now) thus limiting the number of them that you would ever see. This would make them huge targets for a high sec pirating group because as you say, "your[sic] out beyond the law. if your attacked, no ones gonna hear you."

I dont mean to seem like im pointing out flaws because im not trying to; I actually think this would make a great addition to the game, and these are questions that would be asked as far as game balance goes if it were to get implemented.

Again; i really love this idea, and i think it makes much more sense than the current "exploration" system now

There are a few things to remember when referring to the other exploration ships. Yes, its true, all you'd really need to do is get the baseship out there, then clone jump, however, in deep space, it would still be better to have the other T2 ships along with you. Remember, objects in deep space would be more spread out, harder to kill, and overall more dangerous, if you brought a normal battleship, it;d use all its cap to get out to the area its headed for, and when it gets there, its basically screwed because it can't tank the damage, and its cap is gone. The same goes with the Prospectors, yes, you could do it with other frigs, but Prospectors do it better, none of the exploration ships are needed, everything you do with them can be done with their T1 counterparts, they just do it better, faster, and more safely.
As for the baseship, I see the problem, and I think maybe the best solution would be to have it be its own class of ship, instead of a T2 carrier, its cost would be more then a carrier but less then a mom, maybe 2-3 bil including fittings.
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Out of System - by Sigras

Fri, 31 Oct 2009 06:37:00 +0000

Originally by: Chaos Hellbreth
although, something like this would be extremely hard to implement, unless they came up with a way to randomly generate all of this stuff....

well . . . they could do it like they do exploration right now; they spawn a signature in space which does nothing except track when someone warps to it. They then spawn the area only after it is warped to; its a pretty efficient design.

Out of System - by Chaos Hellbreth

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 19:59:00 +0000

Nikita... .BRILLIANT!

I especially liked the idea of the protsystem. It conjured up images of specially designed mining ships designed to withstand the extreme heat of a star and mine resources from them...

It would also go a long way to making space less boring... although, something like this would be extremely hard to implement, unless they came up with a way to randomly generate all of this stuff....

Out of System - by Sigras

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 16:14:00 +0000

ok, now that im at my comp :D

LOVE this idea, absolutely love it, however, i dont think hidden solar systems are a viable option as eventually someone would have noticed a star that isn't on the map

also, while i love your idea for the pathfinder (excellent use for the tier 3 T2 BC hull) im not sold on the other two; i dont think they have a defined enough role, and they over complicate things more than i think they help. As far as the deep space mobile operation base i have mixed feelings; it is a GREAT ship, but the clone bay is a bad idea.

It basically eliminates the need for any other specialized ship because once the pathfinder gets there all it needs to do is call in the mobile base, wait for it to deploy and have the rest of the gang clone jump to it; instead maybe a refinery?

Also if they were T2 Carriers as you suggest, they would be uber expensive (were talking mothership or Titan expensive) and extremely hard to train for, (beyond what Titans are now) thus limiting the number of them that you would ever see. This would make them huge targets for a high sec pirating group because as you say, "your[sic] out beyond the law. if your attacked, no ones gonna hear you."

I dont mean to seem like im pointing out flaws because im not trying to; I actually think this would make a great addition to the game, and these are questions that would be asked as far as game balance goes if it were to get implemented.

Again; i really love this idea, and i think it makes much more sense than the current "exploration" system now

Out of System - by Rokomana

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 13:08:00 +0000

Originally by: Ivy Axisur
Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 12/07/2008 21:48:48

Ive given a lot of thought to similar game mechanics myself, with a eye towards the solo player.

Id love to be able to set off on my own and explore deep space.
I imagine setting out on a one month; even 1 year long journey, alone or with a friend, encountering a variety of memorable experiences and of course good stuff.

I like a lot of your content ideas but Id change the mechanics.

Ill my explain concept as simply as possible:

THE GEAR-One new class of ship Ill call it Voyager Class:
Its a huge capital ship, basically a mobile POS. Like your concept it would be extremely heavy of defense, low on offence, massive on electronics. It would include a ship hanger, massive cargo hold, manufacturing and research slots, mining ability basically everything you need. It would have no warp drive, no jump drive nor could it use gates making it useless in the known universe. However in deep space it would engage a capital-class MWD with 100% reduction in cap use. (Again, not active in the known regions of space to avoid PVP balancing issues).Voyager would require fuel probably similar time/fuel amounts as a POS.

Im not sure how fast this ship should be Warp 9?, 0.25c?, I really have no idea - it would have to depend on the size of the deep space area available but needless to say, it will have to be much faster than normal MWD which is slower than the Space Shuttle!

THE MECHANICS

-Deep Space would have no stargates.

-You spend a good amount of time gathering supplies and fuel to stock your ship with everything you may need for this journey.

-You build your Voyager near a new class of acceleration gate or wormhole that would become active. This gate/hole activates for this class of ship only and flings you 4000AU out into the void. This would be a random heading so no 2 ships would be placed less than 4000AU apart.

- As you set out at and accelerate up to speed you will scan (basically a build-in extreme range multi-spec scanner). Once you locate something, you deploy your Anathema and scan it down normally. Then deploy your BS or whatever other ship your packing to go fight.

-The complexity and rarity and difficulty of encounters would grow the further you get from civilization.

-There would be new and rare materials and artifacts found only randomly in deep space which would play into advanced scientific R&D back in empire.

-The Voyager Class would essentially be nearly invincible, but without substantial combat ability, it would be your other ships taking the risk.

-Once you get really deep into space youd encounter highly advanced technology, and your Voyager itself would be in extreme danger forcing you to turn back. But, if youve got the guts you may be able to take one or two out before you do and get some great stuff ; )

-No rules no Concord in deep space, but it would primarily be an advanced PVE zone. If someone was to track you down they would have to be serious about it and program in a multi-day intercept course.

THE PROGRAMING-A large variety of content would need to be created. Its deployment would be random, every explorer would eventually find the same stuff, but with random variations on time placement, loot, and encounter intensity making the journey unpredictable.

I love this idea. Sounds a bit Star Trek inspired Not that that's a bad thing at all

Out of System - by Pliauga

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 12:03:00 +0000

Me likey

----------
DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?!
LONG range/"OUT OF SYSTEM" artillery

Out of System - by Sigras

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 09:23:00 +0000

excellent post; one of the best ive ever read, albeit a bit long . . . and excellent use of narriative to make me interested enough to read the rest; though it could use some balancing, great idea. . . . More when im not on my phone :s

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 05:12:00 +0000

bump
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Out of System - by Dr Cedric

Mon, 6 Oct 2009 20:41:00 +0000

Definitely an awesome idea. I think this ought to be a consideration at the corp level. This is what the game is about after all, "massively Multiplayer Online" game. It would give something for us Smaller corp owners to put as a goal - production of these new ships and their deployment. And I have no problem with letting it be a week long process. If I play for a few hours a day, then it makes a huge change from mission grinding, 0.0 ratting, alliance B.S. and the boredom of being a solo player. Bump Bump Bump!
Dr Cedric

CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR-

Out of System - by Zaboth Garadath

Mon, 6 Oct 2009 15:57:00 +0000

Awesome Idea. Hope CCP considers this =P

\signed
------------------------------------------------
Please give me some ISK

Out of System - by Realityfirst

Sat, 4 Oct 2009 04:20:00 +0000

Nikita I think this is an awsome idea and would love to see something very similar introduced into EVE. You've put alot of time in to your ship's and thier function. The thought of getting a group of corp m8ts together to go on a Deep Space exploration mission in so intriguing. Awsome job! Well done. Hope more people find this as interesting as I did

Out of System - by nadro

Sat, 4 Oct 2009 00:36:00 +0000

Add a pvp version of those ships and let the alliances race for the deployment of guerilla bases (with clone facilities) on the outskirts of an opponent's capital system. From there they can fly in fast moving, hard hitting gangs, having as only disadvantage increased consumption. Hit and run is the only thing you can do, but maybe what you hit is a capital ship. You can't be bubbled, you can be e-wared (by a massive e-war fleet) and your tank is not a problem.
It's a pvp game after all and maybe black ops have failed so far but why give up

(n)

- i hate to admit it but your pve scenario needs a slim backdoor for the pirates in order to be an mmo
- don't kid yourself. it will be farmed
- i can only feel for the team of that project, should it go through

--
pǝoʇsǝɟıuɐɯ

Out of System - by Astria Tiphareth

Fri, 3 Oct 2009 10:14:00 +0000

Even if this merely prompts CCP to dramatically improve the current exploration system, this is a superb effort, nicely done, and a fun notion.

I've always supported more 'stuff in space'.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Fri, 3 Oct 2009 00:01:00 +0000

I hate continually bumping this, but I honestly think its a good idea, and I hope people will actually consider it.
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Out of System - by Lucian Stratos

Thu, 11 Sep 2009 12:27:00 +0000

WOW yeh love the idea well though out and presented i think it would definatly add a new level to the eve experiance but to implement it would take a whole new expansion i think but hey i aint a programmer so what would i know.........

the verry thought of something unknown and never before seen well i am drooling

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Thu, 11 Sep 2009 04:02:00 +0000

badabump
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Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sun, 24 Aug 2009 08:37:00 +0000

just a line and when the ship crosses it, it changes nodes. just like when you change grids.

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Out of System - by Anathema Amat

Fri, 15 Aug 2009 23:39:00 +0000

It doesn't really need to be contiguous. Just got to have some logic to state when it switches server.

Out of System - by Morgan Brykein

Fri, 15 Aug 2009 21:16:00 +0000

Perhaps it could allow interstellar travel without the need of stargates, but one would need to recharge the engines every once in a while. What freaks me out though is the prospect of coming out of a warp in an empty blackness, ewwwww creepy.

This might be possible, but in order to make it that contiguous, it would require a superserver the size of the moon. There are ways to get around it though.

This might also provide the ability for discovering new systems.

Out of System - by Anathema Amat

Fri, 15 Aug 2009 19:46:00 +0000

In principle I like a lot of the ideas here, and kudos to the effort you put into this.

IMO, deep space should be way more empty than near space, and should not offer up much in the way of pirate spawns, etc. There are loads of opportunities for PvE pew-pew without expanding on these. However, I like the idea of having natural phenomena to discover and exploit, and the concept would work well in conjunction with other exploration-related expansions suggested elsewhere (please excuse the promotion of my own thread here), especially relating to going "off the map" and discovering new systems/regions and providing strategic short cuts to existing ones.

However, speaking practically I'm not sure that new classes of ships are necessary, and adding all this complexity and additional content would be a great deal of work for CCP. My preference would be to keep things simple in the first instance, and base it on current covert ops/recon, but require an element of co-operation with others in order to exploit anything.

Thanks,

-Anathema

Out of System - by Xindi Kraid

Fri, 15 Aug 2009 19:24:00 +0000

I don't like the idea of manually flying between systems because a short trip would take a 'center a day but the "so far out even concord ca't help you" intrigues me as dos the pirate stations and such. I think those can be added with existing mechanics though
--Bird of Prey: Forum God

Caveat Emptor
Caveat Venditor
CAVEAT

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Fri, 15 Aug 2009 19:09:00 +0000

bump!
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Out of System - by Sartaron

Fri, 18 Jul 2009 05:59:00 +0000

What i like about it: There would be some kind of "mystery-effect". Stuff you really have to look for... Eve is much to defined and there is too much known about the systems... Something "off-shore" would be cool

Out of System - by Luzz Bightyear

Sun, 13 Jul 2009 00:45:00 +0000

I suggested something similar yesterday. Except more PvP orientated.

Out of System - by Ivy Axisur

Sat, 12 Jul 2009 20:42:00 +0000

Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 12/07/2008 20:47:18
Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 12/07/2008 20:46:19

Ive given a lot of thought to similar game mechanics myself, with a eye towards the solo player.

Id love to be able to set off on my own and explore deep space.
I imagine setting out on a one month; even 1 year long journey, alone or with a friend, encountering a variety of memorable experiences and of course good stuff.

I like a lot of your content ideas but Id change the mechanics of this slightly.

Ill my explain concept as simply as possible:

THE GEAR-One new class of ship Ill call it Voyager Class:
Its a huge capital ship, basically a mobile POS. Like your concept it would be extremely heavy of defense, low on offence, massive on electronics. It would include a ship hanger, massive cargo hold, manufacturing and research slots, mining ability basically everything you need. It would have no warp drive, no jump drive nor could it use gates making it useless in the known universe. However in deep space it would engage a capital-class MWD with 100% reduction in cap use. (Again, not active in the known regions of space to avoid PVP balancing issues).

THE MECHANICS

-Deep Space would have no stargates.

-You spend a good amount of time gathering supplies and fuel to stock your ship with everything you may need for this journey.

-You build your Voyager near a new class of acceleration gate or wormhole that would become active. This gate/hole activates for this class of ship only and flings you 4000AU out into the void. This would be a random heading so no 2 ships would be placed less than 4000AU apart.

- As you set out at and accelerate up to speed you will scan (basically a build-in extreme range multi-spec scanner). Once you locate something, you deploy your Anathema and scan it down normally. Then deploy your BS or whatever other ship your packing to go fight.

-The complexity and rarity and difficulty of encounters would grow the further you get from civilization.

-There would be new and rare materials and artifacts found only randomly in deep space which would play into advanced scientific R&D back in empire.

-The Voyager Class would essentially be invisible early on, but without substantial combat ability, it would be your other ships taking the risk.

-Once you get really deep into space youd encounter highly advanced technology, and your Voyager itself would be in extreme danger forcing you to turn back. But, if youve got the guts you may be able to take one or two out before you do and get some great stuff ; )

-No rules no Concord in deep space, but it would primarily be an advanced PVE zone. If someone was to track you down they would have to be serious about it and program in a multi-day intercept course.

THE PROGRAMING-A large variety of content would need to be created. Its deployment would be random, every explorer would eventually find the same stuff, but with random variations on time placement, loot, and encounter intensity making the journey unpredictable.

Out of System - by Straight Chillen

Sat, 12 Jul 2009 20:09:00 +0000

bump for an innovative idea

Out of System - by Ivy Axisur

Sat, 12 Jul 2009 19:30:00 +0000

Youve got quite an imagination and I think its great.

Lots of cool stuff in your post there, make sure it sticks around for a while.

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sat, 12 Jul 2009 18:16:00 +0000

bump
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Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Tue, 24 Jun 2009 05:22:00 +0000

well, getting out there would be tricky, and the environment would be hostile to the point that all but specialized ships would have trouble out there, so no, I don't think it would replace 0.0

make no mistake though, 0.0 empires could use it, A dedicated plan on the part of one alliance could be to place a string of bookmarks connecting two cyno jammed systems so they could move a cap fleet in and break the lockdown.

as for it replacing lowsec, with FW, lowsec is busier then every and doesn't look to be calming down any time soon.
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Out of System - by H Lecter

Mon, 23 Jun 2009 16:23:00 +0000

So you're trying to bring the joys of 0.0 to hisec?

Are you aware, how empty certain 0.0 systems are currently? Do you think that those who are out for a venture cannot go to 0.0 and have it there?

What shall I do in 0.0 when nobody comes there because they are in the hisec version where they even get the bigger rats to kill? I'm a pirate and I earn a living on those who want to see big rats or mine awesome roids.

After your idea has been realised we can just forget about low sec. Nobody will ever go there again...

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sun, 22 Jun 2009 22:14:00 +0000

bump
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Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Sat, 21 Jun 2009 01:25:00 +0000

bump
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Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 23:29:00 +0000

True, but deep space is by no means empty. Its a lot of empty space and flying through it. But its by no means safe, and you definitely wouldn't want to sit in one place for very long unless your some kind of masochist since sooner or later something extremely unpleasant will wander over to see what you taste like. This wouldn't be like 0.0 so much as it would be like an extremely advanced, freeform and dangerous version of mission running, sort of like an 0.0 for miners and mission runners. Its less to do with killing things so much as it is to flying off into the great beyond, the spirit of adventure and camaraderie high in the air as you blast deeper into the dark unforgiving depths of space, looking for riches and wonders unseen by anyone but the devs, encountering colossal foes and strange and deadly phenomenon on your wagon train across the stars.
The current exploration system fails miserably at that.
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Out of System - by Marcus Gideon

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 22:57:00 +0000

The reason space feels "small" is to speed up gameplay. No one wants to receive a mission from their agent, set course for the system in question, and then return to the game a week later when they arrive. That's why we have Star Gates and Warp Drives to get us there faster than we could walk or thumb a ride.

Exploration already dives into the nooks and crannies of the systems. And there is still a lot of relatively empty space between the stations and star gates we end up seeing most often. So we don't need to add "vast empty nothingness" to every system in the hopes that something will be there.

Consider how much time Explorers spend deploying probes and scanning for any signals worth investigating. They scan until the probes die, deploy another set, and keep going. Now imagine pointing your ship off in some direction, leaving your computer on by itself for a week, and returning to find out all you did was wander aimlessly into space and still haven't found anything. Now not only do you have to turn around and fly a week back, but you have EVERY other direction to choose from for next time.

Eve plays out like a TV show. No one wants to see episodes of their favorite shows, in which the cast goes on about life normally. They want to see the occasions when something important happens.

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 19:31:00 +0000

This isn't really adding more space in that sense. The galaxy still stops at the edge of 0.0, this just fills in the space already there, makes Eve feel big again, and gives people with a sense of adventure something to do that sends them really far from the comforts of civilization. Because right now, even the furthest emptiest 0.0 regions are still only an hour from Jita.
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Out of System - by Marcus Gideon

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 12:41:00 +0000

This is another attempt at "something in space, besides ships and guns".

If you could head off in a random direction, and wind up finding something no one else has, then you'd feel special.

(34 words =P )

The problem is, this is a seriously advanced sci-fi setting. So we have sensors that can detect all sorts of cool stuff like that. That's why Explorers can probe for hidden ruins, and we know exactly how to warp from A to B without a lot of trial and error.

I'll admit, it would be nice to see more "spacey" stuff. But just adding more space is not a solution. There's plenty of empty space already, they just need to add some comets and nebulae and all that.

Out of System - by Zirconium Blade

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 12:26:00 +0000

I'm pretty much just going to stare at your wall of text and ask for a tl;dr.

Can you answer the question "Why?" in 50 words or less?

Out of System - by Pliauga

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 10:17:00 +0000

Briliant!

I have supported numerous topics of similar nature, but this one is the best one so far.
And this would turn exploration in to a viable profesion.

Problems:
1) To implement properly this would require an enormous amount of work.
2) With so many objects in interstelar space, the database might just explode (could be solved by a spawn despawn mechanic - and/or no long lasting bookmarks in interstelar space).

Good ideas, keep 'em coming.

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DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?!
LONG range/"OUT OF SYSTEM" artillery

Out of System - by gunnar aztek

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 06:24:00 +0000

i once had a broken bm, and i warped like 20 times (full cap in a iteron m v) out of PF-346 (not on sisi)

must have been like 20 thousund AU out of the system, i have a screenshot somewhere :P
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CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity :P

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 06:12:00 +0000

Q&A

How will this effect current gameplay?
It will enhance it, without hurting existing mechanics. If your in an 0.0 Alliance, this could mean more resources, it could also be a backdoor to cyno jammed systems, it all depends on their willingness to use it.

What about security and things, won't this let ships go where they shouldn't?
Well there are only a few problems that could arise, such as Jove Space. surly this couldn't be easily solved by throwing up some sort of technobabble Jovian energy barrier, or even explain it as a natural phenomenon that prevents travel, and the reason the Jove chose it is because ships couldn't get in that way. As for capital ships in high sec, well with the slow speed that cap ships warp at, you'd be talking about an investment of several days to get into 1 highsec system. And if you want to go further in...say good bye to your life. If the pilot wants to go through that much trouble, I'd say let them. Its their funeral when they find something nasty out there while their trying to get their Rorqual into Jita.

Is there security Status and such?
No, your out beyond the law. if your attacked, no ones gonna hear you.

What about local?
Ahh, here we have an interesting problem. I think the solution would be to simply have no system chat when your outside the system. Brilliant right? You would be defaulted to the constellation or region chats. And if your far enough out that you don't have access to that, well it'll be nice and quiet.

What's to stop someone from flying off into the great abyss?
Well you can't warp to something that isn't there, so while there might be some things beyond the edge of the galaxy, it'll cut off at some point, preventing you from going any further. Sure you can turn on your MWD and start flying, but you won't find anything.

What about backgrounds? they change in different systems, how would they change in deep space?
As you move further out in the system, the background would dim to near black, then fade to just a starscape as you approach and cross the dividing line that separates systems.

Well! I think thats everything, you can now comment, flame, stare dumbly at the massive wall of text, or whatever, and I'll try to answer your questions and criticisms in a constructive manor.
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Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 05:55:00 +0000

Deep Space Objects
So why go to Deep Space? lets look at some of the risks and rewards able to be found in deep space.

Rats
Of course there are rats. The rats in deep space are very numerous, this is their home turf after all. The number and difficulty of the rats is determined by the following:
Sec status of closest system
Distance from closest system
Distance from rat outposts
So you can find places with no rats at all, or you can find a place where hundreds come running if you so much as sneeze.

SuperRats
Superrats are the gods of the rat world, these guys make the officers look like childs play, able to one shot a lot of improperly tanked battleships, these things WILL destroy you with ease if you are caught with your pants down. Of course if you can kill them...ca-ching.

Pirate Stargates
Pirate run gates connecting systems that might be far off.

Pirate Outposts
pirate run outposts that you can dock at, provided you have decent standing with the pirates in question.

Dark Nebula
dark cold nebula that dampens your sensors and can leave you wandering around for hours looking for a way out, these nebulas might also hold untold riches, or terrible secrets.

Moon Mineral Asteroids
Thats right, asteroids with moon minerals, just the idea of dysporium Asteroids would be enough to send hundreds of players rushing to train for exploration ships.

Hidden Systems
Entire star systems, cut off from the gate network, run by pirate organizations. These systems would not be like normal 0.0 systems, you couldn't claim sovereignty and the longer you stay, the more rats you might attract, of course if you think you can handle them...

Old Wrecks
smashed hulls and the ruins of ships left from a forgotten era, possibly holding the key to some great secret, or maybe just a tomb best left undisturbed.

Black Holes
A system with a hole instead of a star, the intense gravity can cause rare and valuable minerals to condense in large volumes, as long as you don't get too close to the edge.

Interstellar Nebulas
This is one of those things I'm surprised isn't in yet. systems, entire areas, filled with dust and gas, with the amount of color the backgrounds have, there must be a bunch of nebulas somewhere. Valuable pockets are scattered throughout, but in the murk, other things might lurk, things best left alone.

Leviathans
Huge objects of awesome destructive power an unknown origin. Are they some secret military project? a Jove superweapon? Some sort of rogue drone? or something else? If you can survive the encounter, your story might join the growing sea of legend.

Anomalous Gravity Wells
A point in space your sensors say hold an object, but when you arrive, there is nothing there...or is there?

Protosystems
A hot soupy mixture of gas and dust, collapsing into a star, in billions of years, people might walk on planets orbiting it, but for now its just you and the minerals forced to the surface by the heat, provided that heat doesn't melt your ship along with the asteroids.

(one last post after this one, hold on just a bit longer)
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Out of System - by Herschel Yamamoto

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 05:41:00 +0000

Are you seriously typing out a 20,000-plus character post in the Eve forums directly? Dude, you're just begging for the combo breaker. If you're going to make a post of this size and insist that it all go up in one piece, then pre-write it all in a real word processor, not the garbage they use for forum software around these parts, cut and paste it in, and hold up the "In progress" for five minutes instead of 90 and counting. I'd respect it then, but I'm going to be asleep before you're done posting.

Oh, and to respect the integrity of the OP, I'd like this post to be moved down/deleted as soon as Nikita has read it. Nikita, report this post when you see this. (I assume that's proper procedure...)
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Fix the forums!

Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 05:30:00 +0000

Exploration Ships

Exploration ships will be a new group of ships designed to operate in deep space for long periods of time, their designed to work in groups but can be used solo as well. They wouldn't make good PvP ships because they lack the raw DPS, and are basically built up around their tank. All DSE ships have an overly hard tank, a huge cap and cargo hold, and a warp speed 5-10x faster then that of an intercepter (thats WARP speed, not regular flight)

Pathfinders
The first, and possibly most important exploration vessel is the pathfinder. It would use the Tier 2 battlecruiser hull and would have heavy T2 resists, giving it a tank equal only to that of a Dreadnought. Instead of weapons, the pathfinder would have advanced astrometrics systems, think of taking a drake, stripping off all but two missile batteries, and strapping on dozens of dishes, sensor towers, and radar arrays.
It would also have the ability to fit a module unique to the class, the Pathfinder Gravity Scanner, which would have a greatly enhanced range and scan resolution to that available to other ships. It would also be able to fit a Beacon launcher, and a Ship mounted flare beacon. The Beacon launcher would fire mobile beacons to objects the ship has scanned and marked. Prospector ships could then fly out and see whats there. The shipboard flare beacon is a huge beacon mounted to the hull, it will light up an entire grid with light, its detectable at up to 750 AUs on a regular ship, and 1500 AUs on another exploration ship. Allowing your gang to warp to you, since you can't fleet warp to ships over 500 AUs away.

Prospectors
The second new ship is the prospector, it uses the final frigate hull. It major feature is its ability to see mobile beacons, so it can scout out targets marked by a pathfinder. It also has its own advanced sensor suite, allowing it to scan asteroids from a distance, quickly locate objects on a nearby grid, and provide other logistical help. Its weapon systems are lacking, however it does get a small EWar bonus, in order to help out other ships more then anything else, and with a tank equal to a normal T2 cruiser, its more then capable of surviving the rigors of deep space.

Explorers
The third new ship is the Explorer. Using the Tier 3 battleship hull, it would be the main fleet workhorse of deep space. with a large cargohold, and decent weapons, it is capable in everything from combat and support, to hostile area cargo hauling, while other ships might be more suited to a particular aspect of an excursion, the Explorers well rounded nature makes it ideal for Deep Space, where anything and everything can happen. And with a tank second only to the dreadnought, it can come back to tell the tail.

Deep Space Mobile Operations Base
The Final ship is a tech 2 version of the carrier. Unlike its tech one counterpart, it has no drone bay, or any weapon systems. Its big deal is its function as a mobile base. It can actually deploy into a station that can be docked at. It has no hangers inside though, instead there is a communal hanger and cargo bay. It also has a repair bay, fitting station, clone vat, and insurance office. Everything you need for an extended stay in deep space. A corporation could store battleships and miners in it, allowing access to facilities and stores you couldn't find in deep space.

(up next is deep space objects, no I'm not done talking yet)
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Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 04:52:00 +0000

Why Do I want to go there?
So why would anyone want to go into deep space?
Well there is a risk vs. reward of course, in deep space, there are all kinds rare and valuable resources, officer spawns, and other yummy lootz. But with this reward there is the risk. The deeper you go into deep space, the less concord there is, and the more rats there are. Think of it like traveling into 0.0.
But there are things that even 0.0 doesn't have, that make it possibly more dangerous to travel through then lowsec on a sunday night. I'll go into detail about some of the the things later, but lets talk about the how.

In order to explore Deep Space, you need to be able to find targets. Enter the Gravity Scanner: it is a simple module, able to be fitted on most ships, that will give you targets to warp to, it won't tell you anything about them though, other then their gravitational potential, experienced fleet scanners will be able to identify a ship by its unique gravity field. This scanner will have a range of about 1200 AUs with the accuracy falling off steeply after 800 based on skill level and the scanner's meta level.
A full scan will take about 2 to 5 minutes depending on the skill level of the user, and won't give you any data until the scan has finished. This creates an interesting situation. Because the Overview has a range of only 500 AUs now, when you warp out to a scanned position, you loose the main system, putting you out the reach of help, should you encounter any trouble.
Once your out into deep space, you can use a shorter ranged, more precise scanner, again, it won't tell you anything other then the gravity field, but it will give you something to jump to. Alternatively, you can make a bookmark chain out to your position and use a covert ops to probe down objects, however it is often faster just to fly there and look because of how long it takes most ships to get out there.
In order to travel between Star systems, normal warp and scanners don't cut it, there are special ships that can do it, and I'll go over them in detail later on, but if you don't have one, you can still cross interstellar space with a normal ship but you need special modules to do it.
First you need a module called a Starpointer. It basically allows you to align your ship to the gravity field of local stars and other local celestial objects, all stars have a gravity field that can be looked up, allowing you to find your way. Then you need another module called the "Forward Impulse Superimpellor" It basically upgrades your warp drive so that as long as you stay clear of any heavy objects (like solar systems) you get a large speed boost, large enough to travel between two fairly close systems in about 30 minutes. As you enter the system, the impellor looses its bonuses and your warp speed drops back to normal.
There are of course specialized gravity scanners, impellors, and boosters that allow you to make the trip faster or easier. as well as a whole new group of ships, designed to operate in Deep Space for weeks at a time, which I'll get into next post.

(and no, you can't post yet.)
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Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 04:24:00 +0000

Even before we'd finished using the pair of destroyers we'd brought to clean up the rats, shouts were coming back from the scouts of huge dysporium deposits in nearby asteroid fields. barely out of the system and this trip was already off to a good start. I smiled relaxing in my chair, and started to swing my ship back towards the base. I'd drop off the Explorer and grab a Hulk to help with the mining, everything seemed to be going well.
Then suddenly the Pathfinder pilot gave a yelp, something big had just appeared on the gravity scanner two grids away and closing fast. One of the scout pilots that had just returned ran to the carrier and grabbed a covert ops, hoping to probe out the target before it got any closer, but it wasn't needed. I felt my skin crawl as what was formerly a starscape suddenly turned black and rusty, it was the side of a huge mobile drone hive, and an old one from the looks of it. The few rats still around turned and ran, I swore loudly and shouted for all ships to pull back, as I did so its first volley sliced a pathfinder in half, ripping it apart in one shot. Screams of panic filled the comms, we fell back dodging weapons fire as best we could, forming a rough defensive ring around the carrier, which was just beginning to undeploy. It looked like we were in for a fight.

Eve is not a universe, its not a galaxy. Currently, its a disjointed series of points, threaded together by a web of gates. But what if that could be changed, what if we could, with the proper equipment and understanding, turn our bows outward and sail our ships across the interstellar voids between stars? With the Deep Space Exploration system, we could.

How would it work?
A solar system in Eve is currently a bubble 1000 AU across,everything in this 1000 AU bubble not specifically hidden is viewable on the overview. If you fly beyond that bubble you basically hit a wall.
DSE would change that. First, the range of objects viewable on the overview would be pulled back to 500 AUs. This wouldn't effect general gameplay since the largest systems in Eve are only 250-300 AUs across. (currently travelable distance without probing down hidden areas)
Next, the 'system bubble' would be expanded to between 2000 and 3000 AUs. This WOULD NOT effect lag since the data is only appropriated while a ship is on the grid. What would go in these distant regions? Well harder rats, gas clouds, hidden belts and planets, huge asteroids and comets, and pirate stations (models seen in missions) that could only be approached safety if your standing is high enough with the pirate faction.
But hidden dangers would lurk there too, and so far from the safety of the the planetary system, not even concord would be able to help you. You'd be on your own.
Of course thats not all. In addition to the larger space in system, you would also be able to travel beyond the system itself. The barrier at the edge of a system would be removed and you would be able to fly between systems without gates or cynos.
How would it work? Well imagine space is like the area around a moon, one with dozens of POS's set up (yes I know you can't do that, just roll with me) The Control tower would be the sun, the hangers and bays would be the planets. Traveling between the systems would be like flying between the POSes.
Thats a lot of space, yes, and its big, yes. So how do you do it without instancing? For most of space the answer is simple, the space between the systems is divided up onto the nodes the systems are on, so when your in interstellar space, your still on the same node as the system your closest to. In deep 0.0, where the gates can be spread for hundreds of light years apart, you'd need to maybe allocate a node. But the difficulty involved in crossing these large areas would be great enough that the demand won't exceed the ability of a node or two to handle most of it.

(still not done, don't post yet)
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Out of System - by Nikita Alterana

Wed, 18 Jun 2009 04:01:00 +0000

This Topic is a work in Progress, please do not post in it until this message is removed. Thx.

How many times have we wished we could just fly off into the depths of space? How many of us have tried to get out to the edge of a system with a fast ship and a microwarp drive? How many want to go further?

The following is a small scenario that could actually happen if some of the features I'm about to discuss were added to Eve. I'd like to remind you again not to post in this topic until I've indicated that I have nothing further to post, as I want to keep this neat, orderly, and presentable. Thank you for your understanding.

The Magellan class pathfinder hung in the space outside the station, its sensor arrays blasting a signal out beyond the furthest planets in the system. The pilot, an old friend of mine was at the helm, her steady hands plied over the controls marking out targets hidden in the darkness beyond the system. She didn't say anything to us, but we heard her mumbling something about signal distortions on the communication channel.
"Got it.' She said finally and her ship vanished as the engines fired hard blasting the ship up away from the plane of the elliptic, out beyond the furthest sensors could carry a signal.
This the tense moment, the rest of the fleet hung around me, ready to jump out to her the second her beacon appeared to spring her out of any trouble she might have found.
A pair of Anthems zoomed by my Kodachi, heading for the front of the fleet, they would be the first on the scene, throwing out ECM bursts their ships could barely handle, trying to break the lock on the swarms of rats that would appear at the beacon, hungry for a kill.
I counted off the seconds to myself, she was late. A second pathfinder was already scanning desperately, while its pilot dug through data books trying to find the gravity signature on the Magellan so he could jump out there to rescue her.
Then The beacon lit off. Without even thinking I hit the engines and the Kodachi rotated under me, firing hard as its warp engines sent it tearing across space. The Anthems passed me, their grey hulls blurred by the intense speed as they moved even faster then me, racing out for the Pathfinder. I was dimly aware of the rapidly paced conversation going on around me, there had been stories circulating about a huge find in the space between this system and Gerper, if we hit it big here we could pay off the loan on the carrier and actually put our cashflow out of the red.
My ship's engines rattled as it began to decelerate. Then suddenly the sky turned white, the pathfinder hung in space; the brilliant flare on its signal mast highlighting our ships with the glow of a thousand stars.
The pathfinders shields buzzed angrily as it continued to take hit after hit from the swarms of rats attacking it. The pilot sighed as the last of our fleet, the late Explorers and the huge Missionary class deep space carrier arrived. As soon as it had warped in she dropped the beacon, breaking the lock the rats had as her signature radius fell back to normal. I congratulated her on a good jump as she headed for the carrier for repairs. It was already beginning to deploy into base mode.
The second pathfinder launched a quick scan and fired off dozens of mobile beacons for the scouts as I brought my weapons to bear on the nearest rat.
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