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[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by mucklavee

Sun, 28 Dec 2009 05:29:00 +0000

seriously hurry up frackin ccp, by the time you make up your mind i can be piloting a revelation and a phoenix sheesh! us minmatar pilots want answer neow!!!!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Tue, 23 Dec 2009 21:05:00 +0000

IIRC they said they were going to lump this in with an upcoming capital review in general so don't hold your breath.
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[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Tue, 23 Dec 2009 20:05:00 +0000

Originally by: Triest

There's no point in bumping it. The topic has already been mentioned to CCP, they've done their typical 'we might look at it, maybe' response, and that's that. CSM have done their job (such as it is), and now we wait a couple years for CCP to actually do something themselves. If they want to.

I suggest we employ a CSM member to revive this topic in form of a follow up with CCP to provide us with more details at the very least.

CSM members, sign up button is that way

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Wed, 10 Dec 2009 15:07:00 +0000

Originally by: Cpt Lumis
Lets not let this topic die. i would really like to see something done about this.

There's no point in bumping it. The topic has already been mentioned to CCP, they've done their typical 'we might look at it, maybe' response, and that's that. CSM have done their job (such as it is), and now we wait a couple years for CCP to actually do something themselves. If they want to.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Wed, 10 Dec 2009 14:30:00 +0000

Lets not let this topic die. i would really like to see something done about this.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Tue, 9 Dec 2009 05:50:00 +0000

Originally by: NanDe YaNen
Raise CPU

Add capital cruise launchers to complement torp launchers.

Make capital cruise/torp launchers follow the pattern of non-capital.

Naglfar can suddenly pack highest or near highest close range DPS with largest falloff (traditional advantage of mini close-range gear) giving them the best engagement capability at non-sniping ranges i.e. we cyno'd right on top of a cap blob.

That's not really enough, it needs more dps to be atleast close to the other dreads and it needs a better tank. Double weapon bonuses built into the hull, a cpu boost, and one or two midslots are what it needs at bare minimum.

Originally by: Lanais Suleia
Originally by: Cur
What is the point of the Naglfail other than to be outmatched by the other dreadnoughts in almost every situation?

It needs a clear strength.

Its clear strenght is being so useless that it's rarely primaried.

But yes, split weapon systems for the fail.

I'm always primaried Aside from pos shots I don't really know why though.
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[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Thu, 4 Dec 2009 20:06:00 +0000

Does anyone know when the next CCP meeting will be?

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Lanais Suleia

Mon, 1 Dec 2009 02:36:00 +0000

Originally by: Cur
What is the point of the Naglfail other than to be outmatched by the other dreadnoughts in almost every situation?

It needs a clear strength.

Its clear strenght is being so useless that it's rarely primaried.

But yes, split weapon systems for the fail.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by NanDe YaNen

Sun, 30 Nov 2009 18:39:00 +0000

Raise CPU

Add capital cruise launchers to complement torp launchers.

Make capital cruise/torp launchers follow the pattern of non-capital.

Naglfar can suddenly pack highest or near highest close range DPS with largest falloff (traditional advantage of mini close-range gear) giving them the best engagement capability at non-sniping ranges i.e. we cyno'd right on top of a cap blob.

Also, by reducing the need for sensor boosters etc for hitting sniping range, midslots can be focused on tank. Save one low for backup sensor array or just a PDU or cap gear for extra tank.

Pulse Revelation is so-so and Blaster Moros is merely theoretical without a very good cyno opportunity. Close range Phoenix would be quite a bit better off. Currently there is no launcher to differentiate Phoenix loadouts.

Pheonix gets a faster main capital weapon (easing the pain of slow citadel torps) and still has dumb citadel torps for hot-drop ambushing at close range. To balance the DPS if it's going to come out too high, do some PG tweaking on citadel launchers such that the Phoenix comes up about 5% short and can sacrifice a damage mod for a PDU and get a little bit more tanking as well.

With the Naglfar, capital cruise/arty would just be a PG swap for capital torp/AC's, leaving it with enough grid for either setup. Having the extra CPU given back by cruise launchers would also help with the extra CPU required by arties, so it'd be a tight but doable fit in either stance.

Finally, the Mini hull with split weapons would actually have some versatility that isn't code-word for sub-optimal. Easier requirements of capital cruise launchers and added CPU would take away the fitting pain for long-range setups. Close range setup would have lots of falloff to minimize impact of being out of optimal, allowing it to have consistent, superior close-range DPS to any other dread. Capless weaponry leaves it with full cap for burst tanking into the loving arms of carriers.

I would fly that Naglfar. It would still be sub-par in long-range setups, but not ridiculous like it is. It would in return rock more than any other dread in close-range hot-drops.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Sun, 30 Nov 2009 16:29:00 +0000

Any word on this yet.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Jalif

Mon, 24 Nov 2009 21:09:00 +0000

you are getting my support

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Sun, 23 Nov 2009 20:26:00 +0000

Edited by: Yorda on 23/11/2008 20:36:22

Originally by: Chi Quan
now come on, it's just a suggestion. this is my main (forum main, but it does not matter) for this task and i will not use another just to give others more ammo against me like "you fascist bob!" or "you dumb goon" (please, don't take this personally it's just an example)

giving 4 bonuses from the hull seems a bit much. a third non weapon related would be much more minmatar style imho. admittedly i don't fly a nag myself, but i saw action alongside them. if you feel like the master of all things, sure, go ahead, see if more cpu alone makes the nag better.

i should also add that ccp seems to balance across races, not ship classes. so minmatar end up having overall above average small ships and overall underperforming capitals.

Sorry, figured you were just another alt troll. Pretty much all of your suggestions are a complete nerf to the naglfar.

Losing a high slot means you lose more dps on it's already sub-par dps, gaining a lowslot is completely worthless because you're starved for CPU as is and can't do anything with it.

I honestly don't know why this hasn't been brought up sooner. People use to love nags, I would imagine it was because they saw 4 high slots and figured they did 25% more damage than other dreads (maybe the incredibly strong tempest had something to do with it too). Most of these were armor tanked too so they did even less damage than the other race's counterparts.

The whole "they have good small ships so the big ships should suck" thing is really old. Take Amarr for example, they have decent inties, probably the best hacs right now (maybe the vaga is still king with the sac / zealot coming in 2nd and third), they have good cruisers, good bc's, good command ships, the recons are still pretty meh but better thanks to the nano nerf, they have amazing battleships, the best supercaps (both titans and motherships), the best dread, and all the carriers are pretty much the same. In every place apart from carriers and dictors (which all 4 races pretty much perform the same role) they are in the top or at very least can compete (recons), minmatar battleships and dread / supercaps are really sub par in every way right now (and I'd still probably fly a falcon over any other recon, and a zealot over any hac maybe that's just me though).
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[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cur

Sat, 22 Nov 2009 19:45:00 +0000

What is the point of the Naglfail other than to be outmatched by the other dreadnoughts in almost every situation?

It needs a clear strength.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by dawood koplanski

Sat, 22 Nov 2009 12:27:00 +0000

Agree! didnt they boost caldari ships cpu or powergrid a year or so ago even tho minnie capitals were in fact more lacking? I seem to remember something along those lines could be wrong though.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Temin Nevarro

Sat, 22 Nov 2009 02:08:00 +0000

This is very much supported. Minnies need some luvin'!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Chi Quan

Fri, 21 Nov 2009 18:35:00 +0000

Edited by: Chi Quan on 21/11/2008 18:35:31

Originally by: Yorda
God that's a terrible change.

The worst thing about the nagflar is it's terrible CPU. If you're going to fix anything give it more cpu.

The next thing is it's dps, make it so both guns and launchers have 2 bonuses applied from the hull. Don't take away 1/4th of it's dps.

Finally it doesn't really need 6 low slots with fixed cpu, so drop a low slot and add at least 1 (preferably 2) mid slots so the shield tank doesn't suck horribly.

tl;dr: shut up stupid alt troll.

now come on, it's just a suggestion. this is my main (forum main, but it does not matter) for this task and i will not use another just to give other more ammo against me like "you fascist bob!" or "you dumb goon" (please, don't take this personally it's just an example)

giving 4 bonuses from the hull seems a bit much. a third non weapon related would be much more minmatar style imho.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Blastil

Fri, 21 Nov 2009 18:15:00 +0000

But haven't you heard, Minmatar ships are supposed to speed tank!

Nah, I'd like to at least see some investigation into this.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Fri, 21 Nov 2009 14:40:00 +0000

Edited by: Yorda on 21/11/2008 14:40:41

Originally by: Chi Quan
the mentioned caps do need a look into, but how about a less drastic one for the nag:
one more low, one less high, 3/3 guns/launchers

God that's a terrible change.

The worst thing about the nagflar is it's terrible CPU. If you're going to fix anything give it more cpu.

The next thing is it's dps, make it so both guns and launchers have 2 bonuses applied from the hull. Don't take away 1/4th of it's dps.

Finally it doesn't really need 6 low slots with fixed cpu, so drop a low slot and add at least 1 (preferably 2) mid slots so the shield tank doesn't suck horribly.

tl;dr: shut up stupid alt troll.
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[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Fri, 21 Nov 2009 12:59:00 +0000

Originally by: SickSeven
This is one of the longest on-going 'issue threads' right now, and the only response from CCP is "we may look in to it, maybe, but only if we're in a good mood, and it's not raining, sunny, cold or hot outside"?????????

W T F IS THE POINT OF THIS FORUM AND THE CSM??????????

Wait a minute, I think you might be on to something, here!

Anyway, I'm still in suspense for the big changes alluded to by Bane Glorious on scrapheap, I'm sure they're coming any moment now.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Chi Quan

Thu, 20 Nov 2009 21:49:00 +0000

the mentioned caps do need a look into, but how about a less drastic one for the nag:
one more low, one less high, 3/3 guns/launchers
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by SickSeven

Sun, 16 Nov 2009 16:57:00 +0000

This is one of the longest on-going 'issue threads' right now, and the only response from CCP is "we may look in to it, maybe, but only if we're in a good mood, and it's not raining, sunny, cold or hot outside"?????????

W T F IS THE POINT OF THIS FORUM AND THE CSM??????????

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Maalus Rahje

Sun, 16 Nov 2009 06:54:00 +0000

Edited by: Maalus Rahje on 16/11/2008 06:54:53
The Naglfar needs some love.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Wed, 12 Nov 2009 02:35:00 +0000

Edited by: Yorda on 12/11/2008 02:36:06
It doesn't suck when I'd insured it moments before and my alliance has already given me a new one for free!

I love making a billion for dying in a cap fight.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Wed, 12 Nov 2009 00:02:00 +0000

Sorry you lost it already Yorda that sucks.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Keflin Geard

Mon, 10 Nov 2009 18:02:00 +0000

Nags are also huge desynch monsters - I'd rather be surounded by a hostile fleet then a couple of Nags when I am in a cap ship.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Nikita Alterana

Sun, 9 Nov 2009 20:02:00 +0000

do this thing
__________________________________________________
I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it!
I'm also training Minmatar Capitals!
And I eat Lions!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Sun, 9 Nov 2009 10:18:00 +0000

I can now confirm that naglfars look really pretty even while blowing up.

Also spilt weapons in a cap fight sucks.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Tue, 4 Nov 2009 15:48:00 +0000

Thank you Yorda that is honestly the best answer I have gotten so far. lol
I think you are right I am just going to plan on in 10yrs they will fix it. Then I wont need to worry about it.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by NaMorham Santorin

Mon, 3 Nov 2009 05:05:00 +0000

late I know, but supported, nag is the only dread I've wanted to fly

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Mon, 3 Nov 2009 02:18:00 +0000

Originally by: Cpt Lumis
So did they say when the cap ships are up for review then.

I can guarantee that it may or may not happen sometime within the next 10 years.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Sun, 2 Nov 2009 13:11:00 +0000

So did they say when the cap ships are up for review then.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Seraphim Io

Fri, 31 Oct 2009 05:18:00 +0000

Quote:
Response from CCP: 15. 0102-04-0045 Buff Minmatar Capital Ships This will be part of the capital ships review. If CCP identifies issues with the Minmatar ships then these will be addressed at that time.

Could they possibly be anymore vague. As what I have come to expect from CCP, their favorite tactic "The five D's of content balance". Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Emveedee

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 22:34:00 +0000

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Nexus Kinnon

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 18:34:00 +0000

sup

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 13:29:00 +0000

Originally by: Asterisk Grat
Response from CCP:

15. 0102-04-0045 Buff Minmatar Capital Ships
This will be part of the capital ships review. If CCP identifies issues with the Minmatar ships then these will be addressed at that time.

Wait, you mean CCP are taking another CSM-sponsored issue and lumping it into another 'maybe we'll look at it later' pile? Shocking!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Koshua

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 12:37:00 +0000

Boost the Nag

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Thu, 30 Oct 2009 00:34:00 +0000

Maybe they'll be fixed by this time next year :unsmith:

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Wed, 29 Oct 2009 17:02:00 +0000

Pretty disappointing response imo, because there is no recognition. Still some hope though.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Wed, 29 Oct 2009 16:53:00 +0000

Response from CCP:

15. 0102-04-0045 Buff Minmatar Capital Ships
This will be part of the capital ships review. If CCP identifies issues with the Minmatar ships then these will be addressed at that time.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Neu Bastian

Wed, 29 Oct 2009 11:36:00 +0000

/sign

Quote:

Neu Bastian
Valklear Guard - CEO

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Hygelac

Tue, 28 Oct 2009 15:39:00 +0000

I agree with the OP, I think some sort of review of Minnie Caps would be good.

The one thing he didn't mention was some kind of Typhoon-esque split weaponry bonus which would be a marginal bonus at least. I'm sure that's come up in the discussion somewhere there.

---
Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Jack Nuddels

Tue, 28 Oct 2009 14:33:00 +0000

signed

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by CursedEagle79

Tue, 28 Oct 2009 14:04:00 +0000

Absolutely agree. As a newish player, I started out Gallente and found I loved minmatar more... Depressing to know that it's not even worth training the race I love to fly up to the highest levels.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Mon, 27 Oct 2009 14:03:00 +0000

Originally by: Yorda
No he's right, with faction damage mods and a faction co-proc (about another 200mil in gear) you can shove a DCII as well. You can also drop two faction gyro's for t2 and use a 3% cpu implant. You still need a cpu mod to fit a shield tank, your damage is still subpar, and your tank is ridiculously cap unstable but it is marginally better.

I agree with you on the faction mods, and that's comparing apples to oranges. Compare other dreads fitted with faction mods, naglfar doesn't shine again.

Originally by: Yorda

I just don't think you should require a capital to spend millions more on an already crappy ship to make it marginally less subpar.

Right ON! + more training time.

Prop goes to you for starting this great thread.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Mon, 27 Oct 2009 10:36:00 +0000

No he's right, with faction damage mods and a faction co-proc (about another 200mil in gear) you can shove a DCII as well. You can also drop two faction gyro's for t2 and use a 3% cpu implant. You still need a cpu mod to fit a shield tank, your damage is still subpar, and your tank is ridiculously cap unstable but it is marginally better.

I just don't think you should require a capital to spend millions more on an already crappy ship to make it marginally less subpar.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Sun, 26 Oct 2009 17:47:00 +0000

Originally by: StoreSlem
you fit your naglfar with crap and then complain it sucks?

gtfo

Hmm, please do show us your fitting, except you're a minmatar speced pilot, who flys amarr capitals. This only proves that minmatar caps suck.

I was very temped to train for amarr capitals myself, but decided to stay true with minmatar, even though they suck, role playing kinda thing.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Mastah Mazoku

Sun, 26 Oct 2009 16:02:00 +0000

agree.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Kalintos Tyl

Sat, 25 Oct 2009 07:08:00 +0000

then show your uber fitting :D
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg
guide ninja edited already
hidden topic: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&thread

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by StoreSlem

Sat, 25 Oct 2009 06:21:00 +0000

you fit your naglfar with crap and then complain it sucks?

gtfo

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Si Prime

Fri, 24 Oct 2009 21:14:00 +0000

Dear Santa,
All I want for this Christmas is my Minmatar capitals to be cool again, just because they are the best looking from all. Please Santa, make this helpers of yours work harder and bring them in-line with the rest of the dreads/carriers. Pretty please .... do it NOW

P.S. Is it true that the next capital exploration ship (orca+rorqual hybrid) will be also vertical? That's is going to be sick (I am thinking of the name now)

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Thu, 23 Oct 2009 03:42:00 +0000

Edited by: Triest on 23/10/2008 03:43:19

Originally by: Cpt Lumis
Anyone know if anything was said or done about it on sundays meeting.

I'm sure there were many productive discussions on the matter. Have we mentioned that CCP are adding certificates and medals to the game?

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by mucklavee

Wed, 22 Oct 2009 20:19:00 +0000

i say remove the torp bays and just make it a pure projectile boat 5% turret rof and 5% turret damage just like the tempest instead of the stupid split weapons system ala typhoon

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Wed, 22 Oct 2009 15:00:00 +0000

Anyone know if anything was said or done about it on sundays meeting.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Seraphim Io

Mon, 20 Oct 2009 05:19:00 +0000

C'mon give em a boost. a 5% all rate of fire and a 7.5% shield boost amount per level would be nice. plus some more cpu.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Sun, 19 Oct 2009 17:10:00 +0000

Originally by: Cpt Lumis
Will we finally get an answer soon. Even a to bad guys. To bad you trained a minny dread would be nice at this point. I have been checkng this post ever day for like 3 months now and every month they say they will look into is next meeting. But I see no meeting min's or anything.

CCP are slow as hell, more news at 11.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Sat, 18 Oct 2009 19:50:00 +0000

Will we finally get an answer soon. Even a to bad guys. To bad you trained a minny dread would be nice at this point. I have been checkng this post ever day for like 3 months now and every month they say they will look into is next meeting. But I see no meeting min's or anything.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by s666ss666ss666

Sat, 18 Oct 2009 19:37:00 +0000

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by crschlink

Thu, 16 Oct 2009 19:28:00 +0000

When it comes to the minnie caps we are def unbalanced/in need of love. OP is spot on and I support his conclusions.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by islador

Wed, 15 Oct 2009 21:07:00 +0000

supported, i love burning Mini caps :) *hugs moros* but a nice balllance there owuld be nice, and don't make it a nerf. get it right CCP, you can't afford another cluster****, you've already got 2 on your plate (GTCs Ghost training)

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Wed, 15 Oct 2009 19:40:00 +0000

good news then, hopefully they will do something.

I think i misread the other topic for being the actual meeting w/ ccp.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Bane Glorious

Wed, 15 Oct 2009 19:12:00 +0000

Originally by: Asterisk Grat
Bane, is this something you'd want to discuss at the next CSM/CCP meeting?

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=886168

We already discussed it, we passed it, and now CCP knows about it. SHEESH.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Wed, 15 Oct 2009 17:06:00 +0000

or let me ask another question, be this topic on the discussion list or not for the next meeting with CCP, do we still get a review & response from CCP after the meeting? tnx

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Wed, 15 Oct 2009 17:02:00 +0000

Bane, is this something you'd want to discuss at the next CSM/CCP meeting?

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=886168

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Mon, 13 Oct 2009 16:29:00 +0000

I do seem to get primaried a lot, but any decent FC wont primary a nag in a cap fight. Lowest dps, high burst tank (it only lasts for 1-2minutes but that's about as long as most dreads last in a cap fight anyway), plus they're like a giant marker of where the enemy cap fleet is.

Pos shots on the other hand...

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by SUTARAofHELL

Mon, 13 Oct 2009 16:17:00 +0000

Edited by: SUTARAofHELL on 13/10/2008 16:17:27

Originally by: Yorda
Edited by: Yorda on 12/10/2008 14:46:48
Major update: My new Nag comes out of the oven in like a week.

Taking bets on how many times I lose it before it gets buffed.

Unfortunately you know you will be called primary, right?

P.S. Please CCP save Yorda!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Ess Erbe

Mon, 13 Oct 2009 11:37:00 +0000

Originally by: Yorda
Edited by: Yorda on 12/10/2008 14:46:48
Major update: My new Nag comes out of the oven in like a week.

Taking bets on how many times I lose it before it gets buffed.

Don't worry, CCP will fix it!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by SickSeven

Mon, 13 Oct 2009 00:39:00 +0000

Originally by: Yorda
Edited by: Yorda on 12/10/2008 14:46:48
Major update: My new Nag comes out of the oven in like a week.

Taking bets on how many times I lose it before it gets buffed.

I say first major engagement.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Sun, 12 Oct 2009 14:44:00 +0000

Edited by: Yorda on 12/10/2008 14:46:48
Major update: My new Nag comes out of the oven in like a week.

Taking bets on how many times I lose it before it gets buffed.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Aluura Sky

Mon, 6 Oct 2009 15:16:00 +0000

Just went on the SISI and what a disappointment is the NAGLFAR! Damage is so weak it makes my cry before going to sleep Boost this Minmatar Pride Super Vertical Machine Please ... and the rest of the min caps too

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Seth Ruin

Sat, 4 Oct 2009 23:04:00 +0000

Agreed. Aside from the Nidhoggur, the rest of the Minmatar capitals are very sub-par.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Col Callahan

Sat, 4 Oct 2009 12:15:00 +0000

Signed/ you may be slaves, but that doesn't mean your pew pew power should be inferior as well.
_

Clusters shut down, and then you stare at a black screen for 5 hours.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Eaiaden

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 13:54:00 +0000

Signed, beef up the minnie caps, its long overdue, training in general twice as long as other races with our mixed tanks and dual weapon system.

Ending up with the "joke of the game" ship isent promoting a balanced game with everyone training for revs and moros's.

And a little offtopic... Redo the Ragnarok grafic plz, looking at it makes baby jesus cry.

In general, you must have outsourced the task of creating minnie caps, they are in almost every way the biggest flaw in this game, it looks like its chinese child labours that did the job.

Originally by: Sean Faust
The Typhoon is an oddity. It is EXTREMELY versatile and can be fit just about any way you can imagine.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 13:10:00 +0000

Edited by: Triest on 02/10/2008 13:20:02

Originally by: Bane Glorious

Oh stop posting, jesus christ.

I just think it's absolutely hilarious that we've gone from "complete transparency of the CSM's work to voters" as in the program text, to "I'm not at liberty to say any kind of update one way or another", all within the couple months since the program was started.

Really, though, it makes perfect sense. I'm sure CCP are just terrified of the sheer scope of market speculation into these tech 1 capital ships that could arise if they were to, you know, acknowledge that they're working on balancing a ship or something. We could be seeing, I don't know, 1.7, or maybe even 2 billion isk prices for these ships!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Bane Glorious

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 00:42:00 +0000

Originally by: Triest
Edited by: Triest on 26/09/2008 01:50:29
Originally by: Yorda
What part of "I'm not at liberty to say any kind of update one way or another." didn't you understand?

The part where it makes basically no sense, and seems like an excuse for CCP to do nothing based on anything the CSMs are doing.

"Surprise! We're going to make a huge change to ship speeds, now on test!"

vs

"CSMs are going to have tons of input into how we run our game, we'll fly them to Iceland, and have discussions! They also can't talk about anything that was discussed in specific detail, and we may or may not implement anything at some point in YEARS after the meeting."

Why make a big deal about this program, institute a forum, and so on, if they're going to sweep everything under the rug? I can READ Bein when he says 'I can't comment', but that doesn't mean I actually understand why that's the case.

Oh stop posting, jesus christ.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Drogo Dris

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 14:01:00 +0000

Edited by: Drogo Dris on 01/10/2008 14:01:51
Signed.

The Naglfar needs both a damage boost AND tank boost for the extra amount of skill/training required to fly it. This needs fixing.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Katarina Arisdeed

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 12:44:00 +0000

/signed I fly caldari capitals but I do agree that the matari ships especially the dread just don't seem to be what they should be considering how much extra training is needed to fit one properly, if it would be able to lets say fit 3 capital projectiles OR 3 citadel torp launchers then I think that it would make alot more sense

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Vantlor

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 10:51:00 +0000

Great points! I completley agree (fly a nid myself and am just training for a Rev since it takes less time anyway...).

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Andreus Ixiris

Fri, 26 Sep 2009 04:15:00 +0000

Signed.
-----

CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Dance Commander

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Fri, 26 Sep 2009 01:50:00 +0000

Edited by: Triest on 26/09/2008 01:50:29

Originally by: Yorda
What part of "I'm not at liberty to say any kind of update one way or another." didn't you understand?

The part where it makes basically no sense, and seems like an excuse for CCP to do nothing based on anything the CSMs are doing.

"Surprise! We're going to make a huge change to ship speeds, now on test!"

vs

"CSMs are going to have tons of input into how we run our game, we'll fly them to Iceland, and have discussions! They also can't talk about anything that was discussed in specific detail, and we may or may not implement anything at some point in YEARS after the meeting."

Why make a big deal about this program, institute a forum, and so on, if they're going to sweep everything under the rug? I can READ Bein when he says 'I can't comment', but that doesn't mean I actually understand why that's the case.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Thu, 25 Sep 2009 20:19:00 +0000

Originally by: Triest
Originally by: Bane Glorious

If you look back a few pages, you'll see that this issue was approved by the CSM many weeks ago.

Right. The real question is whether CCP are actually doing anything about this, or any other CSM-debated topic. I don't doubt that some form of discussion was had by you guys, and maybe suggestions passed on to CCP, but it's the last step which has all the uncertainty. You say you can't update us on that (which I don't really understand, but it's presumably not your call), so I guess we're going to keep sporadically bumping this thread until CCP decide to tell us the score.

What part of "I'm not at liberty to say any kind of update one way or another." didn't you understand?

Originally by: Hottie McGee
i know i supported this, but everytime i talk to my fellow goons about capitals, and tell them i'm planning on training minmatar, they just brow beat me about not training for a rev. it's not a hard change, and there is a reason not many people fly this ship.

The Nidhoggur's pretty good, and it's actually quicker to train a rev than training a naglfar even with the nidhoggur fully speced.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by SickSeven

Wed, 24 Sep 2009 02:44:00 +0000

Originally by: Triest
Originally by: Bane Glorious

If you look back a few pages, you'll see that this issue was approved by the CSM many weeks ago.

Right. The real question is whether CCP are actually doing anything about this, or any other CSM-debated topic. I don't doubt that some form of discussion was had by you guys, and maybe suggestions passed on to CCP, but it's the last step which has all the uncertainty. You say you can't update us on that (which I don't really understand, but it's presumably not your call), so I guess we're going to keep sporadically bumping this thread until CCP decide to tell us the score.

Saying "It is approved to be an issue" is like saying,'we give you permission to complain'. Well that doesn't really help us in and of itself unless someone is actually going to listen. I've got about 8 months before I make an involuntary trip to a certain sandy place and I'd like to be able to proudly fly a balanced Naglfar before then!!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Mon, 22 Sep 2009 15:24:00 +0000

Originally by: Bane Glorious

If you look back a few pages, you'll see that this issue was approved by the CSM many weeks ago.

Right. The real question is whether CCP are actually doing anything about this, or any other CSM-debated topic. I don't doubt that some form of discussion was had by you guys, and maybe suggestions passed on to CCP, but it's the last step which has all the uncertainty. You say you can't update us on that (which I don't really understand, but it's presumably not your call), so I guess we're going to keep sporadically bumping this thread until CCP decide to tell us the score.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Bane Glorious

Mon, 22 Sep 2009 13:51:00 +0000

Originally by: TimGascoigne
Originally by: Bane Glorious

I'm not at liberty to say any kind of update one way or another.

I think the question was is this issue part of the CSM agenda? not what are the proposed CCP changes.

If you look back a few pages, you'll see that this issue was approved by the CSM many weeks ago.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by IloveRickAstley

Mon, 22 Sep 2009 11:22:00 +0000

never gunna give you up

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by TimGascoigne

Mon, 22 Sep 2009 10:15:00 +0000

Originally by: Bane Glorious

I'm not at liberty to say any kind of update one way or another.

I think the question was is this issue part of the CSM agenda? not what are the proposed CCP changes.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Hottie McGee

Mon, 22 Sep 2009 02:25:00 +0000

i know i supported this, but everytime i talk to my fellow goons about capitals, and tell them i'm planning on training minmatar, they just brow beat me about not training for a rev. it's not a hard change, and there is a reason not many people fly this ship.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Bane Glorious

Fri, 19 Sep 2009 18:24:00 +0000

Originally by: Triest
Originally by: Cpt Lumis
Is there a CSM or someone that can let us know If anything is going on about this. At least a update. There are many post about this date and that date we will know. Everyday I come on and look and nothing. I have a minny dread and it is all battle ready but the torps. I would like to know if I need to train them or not. Thank you for your help.

I wouldn't hold your breath; like most of the other PVP-focused balance issues (e.g. Black Ops battleships) there's very little incentive on the part of CCP to do anything about the Naglfar/Nidhoggur. The number of players who can fly the ships and who consider them unbalanced is small, and moreover have enough time/skillpoints sunk to not quit out of hand about it.

I'm not at liberty to say any kind of update one way or another.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Elena Morin'staal

Fri, 19 Sep 2009 14:12:00 +0000

I support this. I like matari ships, but they need to be brought up to balance with the others.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Fri, 19 Sep 2009 12:49:00 +0000

Originally by: Cpt Lumis
Is there a CSM or someone that can let us know If anything is going on about this. At least a update. There are many post about this date and that date we will know. Everyday I come on and look and nothing. I have a minny dread and it is all battle ready but the torps. I would like to know if I need to train them or not. Thank you for your help.

I wouldn't hold your breath; like most of the other PVP-focused balance issues (e.g. Black Ops battleships) there's very little incentive on the part of CCP to do anything about the Naglfar/Nidhoggur. The number of players who can fly the ships and who consider them unbalanced is small, and moreover have enough time/skillpoints sunk to not quit out of hand about it.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Thu, 18 Sep 2009 21:18:00 +0000

Is there a CSM or someone that can let us know If anything is going on about this. At least a update. There are many post about this date and that date we will know. Everyday I come on and look and nothing. I have a minny dread and it is all battle ready but the torps. I would like to know if I need to train them or not. Thank you for your help.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Bagehi

Thu, 18 Sep 2009 18:42:00 +0000

What are the strengths of all the other Minmatar ships? Speed. Speed. And a little more Speed.

What bonuses do their carriers get? Shield Transfer. How about some speed bonuses on fighters?

What bonuses do their dreads get? A split weapons system that requires more training than any other race. Because the Minmatar ships not only have to be kept together with duct tape, but they also have to have a clumsy multiple weapon type setup. Bonuses only for Projectiles are in order.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Thu, 18 Sep 2009 17:58:00 +0000

Edited by: Yorda on 18/09/2008 17:58:50

Originally by: SUTARAofHELL
Edited by: SUTARAofHELL on 17/09/2008 18:59:44
Ive just heard on the TS someone calling the nidhoggur - "noobhoggur" and the usual comments that they are of course the worst capital ship blah blah (but i still love them coz they are so vertical) ... o come on CCP you must do something and quick. Listen to Yorda! JUST DO IT!

I prefer to call mine hugger.

Also, I agree with both the nano nerf and that minmatar ships in general need a review (espeically artillery).

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Enne

Wed, 17 Sep 2009 20:46:00 +0000

Minmatar capitals need a review.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Jeal Tersen

Wed, 17 Sep 2009 12:57:00 +0000

supported

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Smertrios

Tue, 16 Sep 2009 16:13:00 +0000

They definitely need looking at, supported

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by DEATHsyphon

Tue, 16 Sep 2009 12:32:00 +0000

Supported
--------------------
I'm not not going to pod you!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by SUTARAofHELL

Tue, 16 Sep 2009 02:45:00 +0000

Ive just heard on the TS someone calling the nidhoggur - "noobhoggur" and the usual comments that they are of course the worst capital ship blah blah ... o come one CCP you must do something and quick. Listen to Yorda! JUST DO IT!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Sephrin

Mon, 15 Sep 2009 17:28:00 +0000

Excellent idea,

/Supported

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Onnen Mentar

Sun, 14 Sep 2009 11:01:00 +0000

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Victor Dathar

Wed, 10 Sep 2009 16:48:00 +0000

i, too, think Minmatar Caps need some lovin.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Mutius

Wed, 10 Sep 2009 13:06:00 +0000

fully supported

minmatar caps need a fix badly

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Devilish Ledoux

Wed, 10 Sep 2009 08:55:00 +0000

While the flaws in the Minmatar's "flexible" ship design are well known and hotly debated, nowhere is it more unbalanced than in the realm of capitals. I support.
_

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Typhado3

Wed, 10 Sep 2009 06:24:00 +0000

Edited by: Typhado3 on 10/09/2008 06:36:28
hell I think the whole race needs a serious look at after the nano nerf (yes I support nano nerf as long as minmatar get looked at). give us alpha or something.... personally I'd like to see it switched to all turrets and have 20% dmg bonus per level at 5% rof penelty (roughly same as 5% rof and 5% dmg) so it could 1 shot any bs stupid enough to stand still for long enough.... but I'm just dreaming =p

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by isdisco3

Tue, 9 Sep 2009 16:00:00 +0000

Edited by: isdisco3 on 09/09/2008 16:00:56
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=868448&page=1#1

for #'s backing this assertion.

personally i'd rather see the nag go with one weapons system and add a low slot or two.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by kaufmann

Mon, 8 Sep 2009 14:30:00 +0000

seriously supported.

My Naglfar will never see the light of day if this wont change,
maybe i just reprocess it.

Its not nice to hear that you suck in everything and will be primaried because
you have the suckiest tank.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Rinaldo Titano

Mon, 8 Sep 2009 10:36:00 +0000

Edited by: Rinaldo Titano on 08/09/2008 10:36:33

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by MADMAT

Sun, 7 Sep 2009 21:17:00 +0000

Full support, Great post

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by wavre

Fri, 5 Sep 2009 20:50:00 +0000

I wonder why they are the rarest capital ships

but seriously what sort of advantage is it to have a slightly greater top speed, slightly reduced signature radius and slightly greater locking time on a dreadnought?

like come on ccp none of this matters as soon as you hit siege mode. Thus the minmatars enjoyed a general inferiority with their dreadnought.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by TimGascoigne

Fri, 5 Sep 2009 20:46:00 +0000

Having EFTed the nag, nidhoder and hel against its counter parts with similar role set-ups. I have found it is that with all its skills at level 5. The minmatar cap ships consistently have the lowest firepower, the fewest effective hit points and with the exception of the carrier the lowest defence efficiency.

This is why as a dedicated minmatar pilot I will be training caldari battleship five in order to fill my capital ship ambition

The dreadnought really needs the most attention there is simply no point in fielding one.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Endel

Fri, 5 Sep 2009 08:21:00 +0000

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Fri, 5 Sep 2009 04:58:00 +0000

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=839426&page=3#81

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Yorda
When is the next meeting with CCP? I was under the impression that it was late August, but don't see anything about it.

Issues were submitted on the 26th of August. So it will take at least till next week.

But I don't think the date has been announced yet.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by TheCraftyHippo

Fri, 5 Sep 2009 04:04:00 +0000

When is this getting addressed?
Please don't shoot me. I'll explode.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Rudebwoy

Wed, 3 Sep 2009 23:45:00 +0000

needs love

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by SUTARAofHELL

Wed, 3 Sep 2009 17:36:00 +0000

Edited by: SUTARAofHELL on 03/09/2008 17:36:30
I support this message! and demand some more minmatar loving
I think the naglfar can use one extra low slot and remove those lame citadel launchers with +1 projectile+ some extra damage bonus

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by dawgbert

Wed, 3 Sep 2009 07:14:00 +0000

this was going to be brought up in the august meeting, but in the 17th august thread in jita park corner forum there is no mention of it at all? did it get dropped? or is it delayed til next meeting or something?

pls don't let this issue die in the cold dark of beauraucracy!

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Battle Dog

Tue, 2 Sep 2009 13:12:00 +0000

Edited by: Battle Dog on 02/09/2008 13:12:38
I support this generally...

My only thoughts to add would be that with the dread needing split weapons it should be able to do maybe 5 or 10% more damage when fully trained to makeup for the extra time.

Also if possible i would like to hear how these ships were originally balanced when first designed and brought into the game as there ahs obviously been an error somewhere.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Pavlinka

Mon, 1 Sep 2009 16:31:00 +0000

Edited by: Pavlinka on 01/09/2008 16:30:50
Unfornutely, they are.
Why do we deserve only good sub-BS class ships?

EDIT: lol, support ...

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Mon, 1 Sep 2009 15:48:00 +0000

Originally by: SickSeven
So was there a meeting this month or what? I just got Minny BS V done, and it rocks for flying a phoon or Maelstrom, but should I train Large Proj Turrett V or not?

It would have to be a pretty huge buff to not make training any other carrier / dread combo more worthwhile.

Even if they did talk about this, it's going to be months before CCP actually does anything about it. Hopefully a dev has already seen the thread and they're actually working on it, but I doubt it.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by dr00l

Sun, 31 Aug 2009 23:59:00 +0000

/signed

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by SickSeven

Sun, 31 Aug 2009 05:52:00 +0000

So was there a meeting this month or what? I just got Minny BS V done, and it rocks for flying a phoon or Maelstrom, but should I train Large Proj Turrett V or not?

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Goberth Ludwig

Sat, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 +0000

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Sat, 30 Aug 2009 11:43:00 +0000

what are the chances of CCP doing anything about this? I have a Nag. Still need to do a lil training before it is battle ready. I was hoping not to have to train torps. There was a poat ealier in the forums sayin the where going to reveiw it this month. Will CCP tell us we are waisting our time. Or will I have to check this post everyday for the rest of my life. Anyone know what kinda chance we have of getting this fixed. Or at least a time frame.
thanks everyone

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Karazack

Wed, 27 Aug 2009 15:09:00 +0000

/signed

especially the Naglfar is sub par though, the Nid is only slightly worse then the other options, but the Nag...having to invest at least 1,4m SP more then other dread pilots and getting a ship that is still sub par just doesnt compute...

although I stopped hoping for a fix already and started on amarr cap path

disagree on the Ragnarok part btw, sig radius reduction is pretty neat

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by solarwinds

Wed, 27 Aug 2009 14:56:00 +0000

/signed

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by SFX Bladerunner

Wed, 27 Aug 2009 12:00:00 +0000

Edited by: SFX Bladerunner on 27/08/2008 12:03:34
Edited by: SFX Bladerunner on 27/08/2008 12:02:18
I'm a minmatar pilot and my roleplaying genes keep telling me to stick to minmatar ships only.. for now that's fine cuz minmatar have some bad-ass PVP non-cap ships and I still have to train up some of the T2 variants.

However I am quite hesitant to start skilling up for capital ships because the minmatar capitals just SUCK.
Sure people say they can be usefull if used properly and for the right goals... but generally making 3 racial capitals that work with either dps or tank and then a 4th that works with -INSERT RANDOM PURPOSE HERE- just doesn't sound right to me.

Now personally I wouldn't mind that at all actually.. I like diversity.
But the way it is right now all the -RANDOM PURPOSE- 'experimental' ships are matari, leading me to believe CCP uses the minmatar as their sort of bastardly experimental race to just play around with.

I am not going to propose any changes or anything, because honestly if CCP needs their players to tell them what to change on the ships they're not doing their jobs right and don't have a clue of the game at all.

I will however say that CCP seriously needs to stop the 'funky' ship layouts for minmatar.
I don't mind projectile weapons, I especially don't mind them not using capacitor. Hell, I even don't mind having to train both armor+shield tank and even projectiles+missile skills.

But training all that just to find out all matari ships from battleship and up suck (yes, the tempest and maelstrom need some freaking fixing too) just doesn't make ANY sense at all.

so its either, make the minmatar capitals more uniform with the other races.. or even out the -RANDOM EXPERIMENTAL PURPOSE- capitalships between the races.
(ie minmatar get a random purpose carrier, caldari gets a random purpose dread etc.)

I am honestly getting sick and tired of how little love CCP has for us matari.
I was relieved when nanophoons were invented and thought: "finally, we found something we're good at"
just to find CCP nerfing the **** (edit: whoops, curse) outta speedmods not soon thereafter.

and now I hear CCP is going to NERF speed even more?
why don't you twist the knife in my back around a tad more will ya..

minmatar are already the overall worst race to fly, and you go and nerf speedships even more
(read: minmatarships, since minmatar ships are basically the only ones that overall rely on speed, cuz they sure as hell tank for nothing)

ok, sorry for the long incoherent post, just venting my frustration and anger.

Apologies to any people I might have offended, playerbasewise or CCP/dev wise.
We just need a boost, a big one. that's all
__________________________________________________

History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Tashiell Gao

Wed, 27 Aug 2009 08:36:00 +0000

yeah, change it before i train for amarr CAPS

Tashiell Gao,
Minmatar Inside.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Nil Fugio

Tue, 26 Aug 2009 17:56:00 +0000

Signed.

The extra trainingtime is almost not worth flying the best looking Dread in game,... almost :)

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Daelin Blackleaf

Tue, 26 Aug 2009 00:12:00 +0000

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Mon, 25 Aug 2009 15:37:00 +0000

Originally by: Triest
I continue to think that a shield buffer/burst tank with many damage mods fitted is the best way to do it; it'd still be a likely primary, but with a 5/6/5 slot layout and maybe a 7.5% shield boost bonus (and 7.5/7.5% launcher/projectile ROF/damage bonus) it'd be competitive with the other dreads, and still a bit distinct, besides.

The nag already has a pretty good burst tank (shield tanked is about double the moros / rev burst tank), but it's cap effeciancy kills it. In a dread fight this helps but nags die pretty easily to poses.

I'd still take it over the vertical pile of shit the nag is right now though.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Scheitan

Mon, 25 Aug 2009 13:43:00 +0000

I want my miny caps to have more fire power and better tank ...ayee

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Arramis

Mon, 25 Aug 2009 10:11:00 +0000

Edited by: Arramis on 25/08/2008 10:11:53
Minmatar capitals fail, need some reworking.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Mon, 25 Aug 2009 01:37:00 +0000

Originally by: Yorda
Edited by: Yorda on 24/08/2008 21:51:50
I believe he meant 5 high slots (4 turret/missile slots) and the extra hp on the torps would help a bit, but capital torps need to be basically reworked anyway.

What the nag really needs is a base +5% damage of torps + projectile per level and a 5% rof of torp + projectile per level. The 3 turrents and launcher spots would just be good for variety.

I continue to think that a shield buffer/burst tank with many damage mods fitted is the best way to do it; it'd still be a likely primary, but with a 5/6/5 slot layout and maybe a 7.5% shield boost bonus (and 7.5/7.5% launcher/projectile ROF/damage bonus) it'd be competitive with the other dreads, and still a bit distinct, besides.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Sun, 24 Aug 2009 19:39:00 +0000

Originally by: Triest
Originally by: irion felpamy

For the nag I like the idea of making it 4 highs 3 turrets 3 launchers, extra low. 5% torp and projectile rof + 5% torp speed/hp/etc and 5% projectile damage make the thing versitile weapons wise.

I'm pretty sure that this would actually make the Naglfar even worse than it is right now, and I'm trying hard to see what the rationale would be in the first place. You're losing a high slot and downgrading the bonus for citadel torps from 7.5 to 5% per level and gaining... what, exactly?

I believe he meant 5 high slots (4 low slots) and the extra hp on the torps would help a bit, but capital torps need to be basically reworked anyway.

What the nag really needs is a base +5% damage of torps + projectile per level and a 5% rof of torp + projectile per level. The 3 turrents and launcher spots would just be good for variety.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Triest

Sun, 24 Aug 2009 16:15:00 +0000

Originally by: irion felpamy

For the nag I like the idea of making it 4 highs 3 turrets 3 launchers, extra low. 5% torp and projectile rof + 5% torp speed/hp/etc and 5% projectile damage make the thing versitile weapons wise.

I'm pretty sure that this would actually make the Naglfar even worse than it is right now, and I'm trying hard to see what the rationale would be in the first place. You're losing a high slot and downgrading the bonus for citadel torps from 7.5 to 5% per level and gaining... what, exactly?

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by irion felpamy

Sun, 24 Aug 2009 12:06:00 +0000

<- I joined the "stopped at BS5 and got an alt to train for a rev brigade". I always wanted a nag but if someone offers you a new BMW for 10k and a new astra for 12k you wouldn't pick the astra.

I'd love to see the nid able to make good use of its rep bonus but the cap use hurts it. For the nag I like the idea of making it 4 highs 3 turrets 3 launchers, extra low. 5% torp and projectile rof + 5% torp speed/hp/etc and 5% projectile damage make the thing versitile weapons wise.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Punk Satter

Sun, 24 Aug 2009 09:32:00 +0000

word

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yelram

Sun, 24 Aug 2009 05:19:00 +0000

Signed.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Spaztick

Sat, 23 Aug 2009 23:23:00 +0000

I agree. But at least the Naglfar is

F
R
E
A
K
I
N

V
E
R
T
I
C
A
L
!
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Thaanvanite

Thu, 21 Aug 2009 17:57:00 +0000

/signed

Want to make us train longer than anyone else? fine, atleast give us some benefit.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Thu, 21 Aug 2009 13:24:00 +0000

Originally by: Strill
Originally by: Yorda
Unfortunatly it cannot target to sniping range without a sensor booster, so it is left with a 4 slot shield tank.

So you can afford to train all those skills for a Nidhoggur, spend all the time and money building it, and then can't afford to have some people coordinate to use remote sensor boosters on you?

That's for the Naglfar, not nidhoggur.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Strill

Thu, 21 Aug 2009 02:02:00 +0000

Originally by: Yorda
Unfortunatly it cannot target to sniping range without a sensor booster, so it is left with a 4 slot shield tank.

So you can afford to train all those skills for a Nidhoggur, spend all the time and money building it, and then can't afford to have some people coordinate to use remote sensor boosters on you?

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by GulletSplitter

Wed, 20 Aug 2009 19:34:00 +0000

I forgot the little happy button....supported 4 real this time

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Wed, 20 Aug 2009 18:55:00 +0000

Originally by: Asterisk Grat
When is the next meeting?

I believe the next CSM meeting with CCP is August 20 something where this will be on of the issues discussed.

I'm not entirely sure that's correct though.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Reithan

Wed, 20 Aug 2009 18:14:00 +0000

Sounds good.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by GulletSplitter

Wed, 20 Aug 2009 18:07:00 +0000

supported

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Eran Laude

Wed, 20 Aug 2009 15:56:00 +0000

Agreed

Minmatar could use some love right now.

/supported

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Asterisk Grat

Wed, 20 Aug 2009 13:44:00 +0000

When is the next meeting?

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Pattern Clarc

Mon, 11 Aug 2009 17:19:00 +0000

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Cpt Lumis

Mon, 11 Aug 2009 15:38:00 +0000

Does anyone know when ccp is meeting about the ship. I here there are going to this month. But does anone know the date?

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by WarmWaffles

Mon, 11 Aug 2009 02:42:00 +0000

/signed

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Lancard

Sun, 10 Aug 2009 21:07:00 +0000

Originally by: Yorda
Originally by: RoCkEt X
minmatar have always needed a large variety of skills to fly, its like saying they should fix it becuase the phoon needs armor skills, and drone skills - and the maelstrom needs gun and shield skills. its just the way minmatar has always been - its not just the caps.

That's fine, but with faction damage mods (4 on a nag, 2 on the other dreads) and all skills level V the naglfar does allmost 20% less damage (close to 1000 less dps). It just doesn't make sense that it has the weakest tank, second lowest dps, lowest alpha, and takes the longest to train for.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Mr Macphisto

Thu, 7 Aug 2009 04:45:00 +0000

i agree 100%

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Yorda

Wed, 6 Aug 2009 20:54:00 +0000

Originally by: Cpt Lumis
Anyone know when they will make this improvement I have a minny cap now But have not trained for the cit torps yet. If they change that I would Like to know ASAP so I dont have to. If they dont change it. I may just train for the gallente dread. Even know the minny one looks awsome.

I stopped paying attention to this thread when some RL stuff came up and bane took it before the CSM (<3), but knowing CCP the earliest this will be is a month or two if they've already noticed the terrible design of minmatar caps.

Nidhoggur is a great carrier as long as you never take it into combat. As a dread / carrier pilot my carrier only gets on km's when I've assigned fighters from 2m outside a pos. I'm currently training for triage which just makes the nidhoggur that much more awesome :)

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by NanDe YaNen

Wed, 6 Aug 2009 19:45:00 +0000

It's worth it to consider how a differentiation of capital missile launchers would change things up a bit. If we had capital cruise launchers and capital torp launchers with the same fitting and damage behavior as regular cruise and torp launchers, and if Caldari get one more launcher high-slot, could see the following setups:

Pheonix:
Can fit either four cruise launchers or three torp launchers (maybe four if you go crazy on the grid, but this loses damage mods).
Naglfar:
Can fit either two arty + two cruise or two torp launchers and two autocannons.

Assume that current citadel torps are in the middle ground as far as damage potential compared to new torps and capital cruise missiles.

Yes, short range guns are not valuable when you don't know what range you might end up shooting at, but when you do know (hot-dropping on someone else) the Naglfar would have the highest short range DPS in the game. In exchange, it still sucks as a sniper. Can still select damage type to an extent, which is nothing to laugh at if you're an EFT warrior and know what the enemy's setup will probably be.

CPU buff is necessary either way. It's horrid right now and two capital launcher types won't ease the pain.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Jaala Creed

Wed, 6 Aug 2009 17:22:00 +0000

Supported :)

Good ideas and commentary. Some minmatar ships need a slight boost.

[Issue] Minmatar capitals are terrible - by Andreya

Tue, 5 Aug 2009 22:49:00 +0000

definately signed.. i have 36 mill sp and battleship level 1... cause everything larger than a cruiser for minnie are horrid

btw. the sig bonus on the rag is the sex... trust me, much rather that than agility. it takes poeple much longer to lock you

also, with a rag in gang, and a claw.. your sig radius is 10 :P lol
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