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Citadel Torpedo's - by Ragel Tropxe

Thu, 25 Dec 2009 13:42:00 +0000

Edited by: Ragel Tropxe on 25/12/2008 13:44:04
Phoenix (and to some extent the nag still needs a rebalance)

the new trend with Dreads is for sniper fit ones (c.f Goons recently).

All Gun - based Dreads can very easily get 150km plus with instant damage. Phoenix with absolute max skills gets 151km range, with a time to hit of over 2.5 minutes, the only way to get more would be for implants or rigs. All gun dreads can easily outrange this because they can fit tracking computers etc. there are no similar mods for missiles that increase missile range

Fixes

1. introduce citadel cruise missiles.
2. introduce a low slot mod for missile flight time / speed.

When is the "capital rebalance" going to happen?

Citadel Torpedo's - by Mark Marlowe

Wed, 24 Dec 2009 01:49:00 +0000

Hope there will be more fixes to thease problems.
Thanx for getting the ball rolling CCP Nozh

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Tue, 16 Dec 2009 17:29:00 +0000

20 m/s: 50% damage

LAWL
----
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Quote:

They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise

Citadel Torpedo's - by Finnroth

Tue, 16 Dec 2009 13:01:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Ignition SemperFi
not sure how i missed that.

/facepalm.

thank you nozh. but since you are still looking at this, the explosion radius and velocity for a seiged dread is terrible. For an anti-capital ship, all they have to do is move and they take a huge dmg reduction. Reducing citadel torp users to only shooting pos's

Try other dreadnoughts, they don't hit at all when targets start moving

Except the drones on the Moros, which are ....

Nooooo, nooooooooooo, not yet, i wanted to use the "wtf pwn small stuff" moros somewhere next year aswell

Citadel Torpedo's - by Gypsio III

Tue, 16 Dec 2009 12:22:00 +0000

Edited by: Gypsio III on 16/12/2008 12:23:44
Really?

Just running some numbers here. Revelation with Beams, res 1000 m, 0.00072 tracking, shooting at Archon, sig 2920 m with 30 m transversal. To-hit chance is 70% at 20 km, 85% at 30 km and 95% at MF optimal at 50 km. Obviously, in a realistic scenario, much of any velocity will not be transversal, making these numbers very much worst-case scenarios.

In contrast... Phoenix shooting Citadel torps at an Archon.
80 m/s: 13% damage
50 m/s: 21% damage
30 m/s: 34% damage
20 m/s: 50% damage
15 m/s: 65% damage
<10 m/s: 100% damage

Now, I don't have the capital experience to know what speeds carriers typically move at in cap fights. So I don't know how to interpret these numbers. But they really don't look good...

Also... MS can't be webbed - although I understand that bumping effectively slows them in combat situations. Aeon:

75 m/s: 54% damage
50 m/s: 79% damage
40 m/s: 97% damage

Again, I don't have the experience to interpret these numbers, or to know whether I've made an obvious error somewhere. But they don't look good.

Citadel Torpedo's - by CCP Nozh

Tue, 16 Dec 2009 10:48:00 +0000

Originally by: Ignition SemperFi
not sure how i missed that.

/facepalm.

thank you nozh. but since you are still looking at this, the explosion radius and velocity for a seiged dread is terrible. For an anti-capital ship, all they have to do is move and they take a huge dmg reduction. Reducing citadel torp users to only shooting pos's

Try other dreadnoughts, they don't hit at all when targets start moving

Except the drones on the Moros, which are ....

Nozh
Game Designer
CCP Games

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Fri, 12 Dec 2009 15:58:00 +0000

not sure how i missed that.

/facepalm.

thank you nozh. but since you are still looking at this, the explosion radius and velocity for a seiged dread is terrible. For an anti-capital ship, all they have to do is move and they take a huge dmg reduction. Reducing citadel torp users to only shooting pos's
----
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Quote:

They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise

Citadel Torpedo's - by CCP Nozh

Tue, 9 Dec 2009 14:55:00 +0000

Hint: Guristas.

Look harder.

Nozh
Game Designer
CCP Games

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Tue, 9 Dec 2009 14:32:00 +0000

to the top with you.

faction torps.... please gief
----
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Quote:

They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Mon, 8 Dec 2009 07:19:00 +0000

bump... will be bumping daily till Nozh gets us faction ammo
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Originally by: Nkurakarin

They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Sun, 7 Dec 2009 00:59:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Ok.

Some basic info:

Citadel Torpedo HP: 650
Normal Torpedo HP: 240
Large Tech II smartbomb damage: 300 DMG

Other factors:

Number of launchers
Speed (It's "almost" impossible to destroy normal Torpedoes with smartbombs)

So to my conclusion:

The Citadel Torpedo HP vs. Damage is a bit low compared to normal Torpedoes if we fix that the HP of the Citadel Torpedoes is boosted to 960 HP. This would also translate directly over if we were to "ever" introduce XL-Smartbombs (doubt it).

Lets not stop there. The Raven, king of torpedoes can mount 6 launchers, but the Phoenix can "only" field 3, this of course makes every missile more vulnerable. By doubling the HP of Citadel Torpedoes we can rectify that.

So end result: Citadel Torpedo HP: 1920

Other things this effects:

One advantage of fitting smartbombs to your capital ship is removed.

Everyone happy?

Oh, and I'll get faction XL Torps authored as well.

Well Nozh... was happy until the patch.

Faction ammo, you didnt deliver as promised.
Torps arent dying as much to smartbombs, good thing... but it still happens not good

Tack that on with the fact the explosion velocity for a seiged dread equates to that of like 3m/s. Not even taking the radius parts into effect, so now a subpar damage system is further negated by just moving.

Please NOZH take a look at citadel torps again... this just doesnt affect Caldari, it effects the naglfar as well.
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Nova Fox

Sun, 19 Oct 2009 20:27:00 +0000

anyone tried linking the launchers into the megamissile mode?

Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Sun, 19 Oct 2009 18:56:00 +0000

just make it so each missile takes note whether it was fired from seige or fired during non seige for Dmg.

Those fired before seige mode went active, but still hadn't hit their target still hit for non-seiged DMG. and vice versa.

As long as the new stackless I/O can handle it all. Should be no problem.

A velocity increase would be nice nozh, but ill at least settle for a bit more
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Sun, 19 Oct 2009 18:53:00 +0000

no dreads shouldnt be BS killers (you could fit yous up for the lulz but still).... those thinking they should be.... should go park theirs on a gate and wait for the gank. TBH

Dreads right now rule the capital fleet warfare, and thats where they are important... anti-capital everything!
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by procurement specialist

Fri, 17 Oct 2009 17:32:00 +0000

dreads should be able to kill bs when not in seige mode. every class should be capable of killing the preceeding class.

destroyer > frigate
cruiser > destroyer
bc > cruiser
bs > bc

Citadel Torpedo's - by Gypsio III

Fri, 17 Oct 2009 11:24:00 +0000

Erm... it's a dreadnought, it's not supposed to be shooting BS...

Citadel Torpedo's - by stoneyharrie2

Fri, 17 Oct 2009 09:05:00 +0000

I think not just the torps but also phoenix need a small make-over

if you look to the other 3 dreads (moros / revelation / nagflar) then the phoenix really lacks DPS

the phoenix does deal huge volley dmg

thats not the only problem, if an battleship is moving at 100ms only you will be hitting like 1,5k's max wich is bad too,, an battleship with average skilled player could infinate tank a phoenix

i think the DPS on a phoenix should be increased (not too much)

an revelation or moros does like 2-2,2k dps on average in siege mode while an phoenix is having around 1600-1700 only

the most people i hear talking about my phoenix are saying "its the weakest dread, it cant even kill a BS"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Malik Mantille

Fri, 17 Oct 2009 07:16:00 +0000

How about missiles take a specific damage type. Not EM/THERM/KIN/EX but a base damage type done only by defenders. Maybe this could be described as anti-missile defense warhead penetration value of some sort. I agree torps are bad these days..
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Citadel Torpedo's - by Bibster

Wed, 15 Oct 2009 21:55:00 +0000

I've just tested new citadel torpedoes HP on Singularity. As I remember CCP Nozh wrote about 1920hp. But it seems six named t1 large smartbombs can kill the citadel torpedo (6 x 300hp damage = 1800hp). So I can say it has less then 1800hp but more then 1500hp (because 5 t1 bombs can't kill it). Is it bug or not? Can anybody test it too and wrote correct bug report, because mine was rejected like non-reproducible.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Irsy

Sun, 12 Oct 2009 18:35:00 +0000

Edited by: Irsy on 12/10/2008 18:38:07

Please do not forget about issue with post siege torpedoes.

I had a target 100km away from my phoenix (it's 88 sec of torpedoes flight time), I've fired 10 volleys in it, but only 6 of them hit the target because my siege off. All torpedoes in space disappeared instantly after siege going off.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Relyen

Sat, 11 Oct 2009 07:12:00 +0000

Much as I love the HP change of citadel torps, I would still very much like to see CCP's view on the fact that citadel torps in flight do 0 damage after turning siege on/off.

Gun dreads get to make full use of their ammo, while dreads utilizing torps lose dps just for turning siege mode on/off.
________________________________

I am own.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Saai Einjhar

Wed, 8 Oct 2009 23:35:00 +0000

Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 03/10/2008 02:18:01
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
That still doesn't give them a realistic chance at hitting a titan so its totally a worthless change aside from dread fights but even then they get there so slowly that by the time they would do damage the fight is 1/2 over. There should be a larger change to Citadel Torps although what you've done Noz is a good start.
Hmm, maybe, maybe give Citadel Torps a x2 speed bonus when in siege mode.
After all sieges have always been a thing about range (catapults etc.) and increased speed would be a reasonable siege mode measure to account for that.
The torps would still be slower than those of a Raven.

A 2x Speed flight bonus in siege would almost do it the damage is still ridiculously delayed tho.

I agree with having a x2 Speed change, damage delayed but at least it means you don't have to worry about the battle being 1/2 over before you hit your first target.

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Wed, 8 Oct 2009 12:48:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Ok.

Some basic info:

Citadel Torpedo HP: 650
Normal Torpedo HP: 240
Large Tech II smartbomb damage: 300 DMG

Other factors:

Number of launchers
Speed (It's "almost" impossible to destroy normal Torpedoes with smartbombs)

So to my conclusion:

The Citadel Torpedo HP vs. Damage is a bit low compared to normal Torpedoes if we fix that the HP of the Citadel Torpedoes is boosted to 960 HP. This would also translate directly over if we were to "ever" introduce XL-Smartbombs (doubt it).

Lets not stop there. The Raven, king of torpedoes can mount 6 launchers, but the Phoenix can "only" field 3, this of course makes every missile more vulnerable. By doubling the HP of Citadel Torpedoes we can rectify that.

So end result: Citadel Torpedo HP: 1920

Other things this effects:

One advantage of fitting smartbombs to your capital ship is removed.

Everyone happy?

Oh, and I'll get faction XL Torps authored as well.

NOZH YOU ARE A LEGEND!!!!!

/me gives CCP Nozh a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig hug

Originally by: CCP Navigator

Thread Locked.

Please note that the General Discussion area is not....

Oh who am I kidding - Continue

Citadel Torpedo's - by Albaluna74

Tue, 7 Oct 2009 12:39:00 +0000

Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: CCP Nozh

Everyone happy?

I'm sure we'll get more Caldari whines when people realize that they still won't be doing full damage on Caps/Supercaps that are moving (at typical speeds 80-100m/s) ...

uh what? 125m/s explo velocity clearly is enough to deal full damage. So what are you refering to?

check explo velocity in siege mode.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Tue, 7 Oct 2009 01:20:00 +0000

I also am one to think the speed of these things needs to be changed.

If not given there should be capital cruise launchers just like other dreads have capital close range and long range weapons.
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Aprudena Gist

Mon, 6 Oct 2009 21:32:00 +0000

Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 03/10/2008 02:18:01
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
That still doesn't give them a realistic chance at hitting a titan so its totally a worthless change aside from dread fights but even then they get there so slowly that by the time they would do damage the fight is 1/2 over. There should be a larger change to Citadel Torps although what you've done Noz is a good start.
Hmm, maybe, maybe give Citadel Torps a x2 speed bonus when in siege mode.
After all sieges have always been a thing about range (catapults etc.) and increased speed would be a reasonable siege mode measure to account for that.
The torps would still be slower than those of a Raven.

A 2x Speed flight bonus in siege would almost do it the damage is still ridiculously delayed tho.

Citadel Torpedo's - by SickSeven

Sun, 5 Oct 2009 20:53:00 +0000

Hey that's awesome this thread got a dev response. Now how bout the Minny Capital thread that's over 2 dozen pages long?

(and this Cit Torp change does slightly help the Nag, but not near enough)

Citadel Torpedo's - by Miyamoto Uroki

Sun, 5 Oct 2009 19:23:00 +0000

Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: CCP Nozh

Everyone happy?

I'm sure we'll get more Caldari whines when people realize that they still won't be doing full damage on Caps/Supercaps that are moving (at typical speeds 80-100m/s) ...

uh what? 125m/s explo velocity clearly is enough to deal full damage. So what are you refering to?

Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face

Citadel Torpedo's - by Seriya

Fri, 3 Oct 2009 20:09:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Everyone happy?

Better than nothing, but I still feel that Citaldel Torps are disproportionally weak compared to other capital weapons. Multiple smartbombs are standard fit on Carriers, Motherships and Titans and will remain so regardless of whatever happens to Torps. Even changed Citadel Torps are completely useless against any cluster of capitals. Needs a velocity bonus imo.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Pan Crastus

Fri, 3 Oct 2009 08:56:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Nozh

Everyone happy?

I'm sure we'll get more Caldari whines when people realize that they still won't be doing full damage on Caps/Supercaps that are moving (at typical speeds 80-100m/s) ...

How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming

Citadel Torpedo's - by ThaDollaGenerale

Fri, 3 Oct 2009 05:12:00 +0000

well, im training caldari bs V after I get done with sentry drones V. yay.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Tarron Sarek

Fri, 3 Oct 2009 02:18:00 +0000

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 03/10/2008 02:18:01

Originally by: Aprudena Gist
That still doesn't give them a realistic chance at hitting a titan so its totally a worthless change aside from dread fights but even then they get there so slowly that by the time they would do damage the fight is 1/2 over. There should be a larger change to Citadel Torps although what you've done Noz is a good start.

Hmm, maybe, maybe give Citadel Torps a x2 speed bonus when in siege mode.
After all sieges have always been a thing about range (catapults etc.) and increased speed would be a reasonable siege mode measure to account for that.
The torps would still be slower than those of a Raven.

___________________________________

Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well

"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Seishomaru

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 22:32:00 +0000

Originally by: Blazde
Good stuff Nozh

Now let's have some of those 4-launcher hardpoint Elder Naglfar bpc drops.

Yea I know, give us an inch we'll take a mile...

4 launchers 2 Turrets and can cyno into cyno jammed systems..... :)

Citadel Torpedo's - by Katarina Arisdeed

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 18:26:00 +0000

Nice it looks like I have a reason to train caldari dread now.

Thanks CCP

Citadel Torpedo's - by Aprudena Gist

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 18:26:00 +0000

That still doesn't give them a realistic chance at hitting a titan so its totally a worthless change aside from dread fights but even then they get there so slowly that by the time they would do damage the fight is 1/2 over. There should be a larger change to Citadel Torps although what you've done Noz is a good start.

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 16:28:00 +0000

Awwwwesome NOZH.
After this the phoenix will be great..
Theres still some issues with dissapearing torps after siege,
and the terribly slow speed of cit. torps..

But all in good time
Awesome EVE history

Citadel Torpedo's - by Blazde

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 15:41:00 +0000

Good stuff Nozh

Now let's have some of those 4-launcher hardpoint Elder Naglfar bpc drops.

Yea I know, give us an inch we'll take a mile...
_

Citadel Torpedo's - by Relyen

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 13:49:00 +0000

Edited by: Relyen on 02/10/2008 13:49:02
The change to HP to solve the Smart bombing problem sounds great, thanks alot.

But I want to just ask if there will there be any examining of the issue of citadel torp damage being reduced to 0 upon switching siege on/off?
________________________________

I am own.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Kagura Nikon

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 13:35:00 +0000

Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 02/10/2008 13:38:55
Seems very good. Because if you really want you can stil shield a carrier or mothership from citatel torps by fitting like 4 faction/officer SB. But that would be fair! Because you are using most of your High slots to counter most of the high slots of the enemy ship.

That made me wonder... would be funny if I could lock citatel torps and fire on them with my tempest :P

Also the faction XL torps will help the naglfar as well a bit. Something that was needed (but i stil lliked more when there were rep fleet XL projectiles :) ).
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Citadel Torpedo's - by Nova Fox

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 12:51:00 +0000

Good Change, but one thing at a time lets see how effective the hp increase does when on the field before asking for the velocity increase which as somone pointed out wouldnt seem nessecary.

Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!

Citadel Torpedo's - by Slvr Foxx

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 12:40:00 +0000

MMM, as a Phoenix pilot, a bow has to be taken to Nozh. Normally caldari as a rule get the nerf stick... Are you caldari Nozh?

Slvr Foxx

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ma Mendes

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 12:09:00 +0000

Victory for missile spamming *****s everywhere. Great job!

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Thu, 2 Oct 2009 09:22:00 +0000

Thank you Nozh. You have at least helped to partially restore my faith in CCP that they listen to the customers.

Though unlike the nanotears, everyone agreed on this issue ;-p
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by w00t117

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 15:27:00 +0000

yays citadel torps will actually hit supercaps and carriers now

Citadel Torpedo's - by azura nester

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 13:22:00 +0000

excellent, i look forward to seeing the changes being implemented. but the speed of citadel torpedos should also be looked into, they are a tad but on the slow side

Citadel Torpedo's - by Tarron Sarek

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 12:39:00 +0000

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 01/10/2008 12:40:21

Originally by: Vily
great stuff. i'd like velocity increaed as well ;p

but im happy to just have acheived this minor success.

I thought about that and maybe a small increase would be justifiable.
Without checking the stats I thought about 3/4 of the normal torp speed. That's not proportional to HP or damage, but since speed is such an important factor, the Phoenix doesn't receive a torp speed bonus and std torps are already rather slow, I guess a non-linear curve is ok.

While checking the current stats I saw it's actually 6/10 right now (or 3/5).
3/4 of 1250 would be an awkward number (937.5), so since the devs seem to like even numbers here, I'd say 7/10 of std. torp speed (that would be 875. 1312.5 with lvl5 skills, if EFT is right and torps get the skill bonus) might be the most reasonable goal you could achieve.

Now 875 m/s is not a huge improvement over 750 m/s, but it would at least be something, and more doesn't really make sense compared to std. torpedoes.

___________________________________

Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well

"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Kazuo Ishiguro

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 08:11:00 +0000

WTB: fraps of someone taking down one of the new citadel torps...

...using defender missiles. It should take about 20 per torp if my calculations are correct.

I suppose if multiple carriers sit right next to each other, they can still take down torps via the use of a few smartbombs each, at the expense of a certain amount of damage.
---
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Citadel Torpedo's - by Gai Servos

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 07:45:00 +0000

eeeeeeeeeexxceelleentt...

Citadel Torpedo's - by Reptzo

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 04:57:00 +0000

Very nice, sounds most excellent.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Tarron Sarek

Wed, 1 Oct 2009 01:10:00 +0000

Sounds good. It seems to be right on spot. Not overdone, since it's still possible to destroy the torps, but still a considerable change.
Will be interesting to see the results.

___________________________________

Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well

"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Zikka

Tue, 30 Sep 2009 23:23:00 +0000

That sounds very promising CCP Nozh - there is another factor though which is missile speed (and which is possibly more important than the number of launchers).

After all if a smartbomb kills 33% of your missiles then thats a 33% DPS drop whether that means 1 missile out of 3 or 2 out of 6.

The main difference is missile speed compared to hit points - and thats why citadel torps need twice the hit points. They take twice as long to get there.

Citadel torp velocity 750 m/s

Torp velocity 1500 m/s

Smartbomb radius 5km

A single smartbomb has around 3.5 seconds in which to hit a torpedo - and the raven has a velocity bonus which reduces that to more like 2.5 seconds.

A citadel torp on the other hand is in smartbomb range for 7.5 seconds.

With smartbomb skill on 4 a smartbomb has an 8 second duration.

This means just running your smarties constantly gives you a 1 in 4 chance of hitting a standard torp once. On the other hand its near certainty of hitting the citadel torp.

With the old torp hit points 2 smartbomb hits (and fitting two smartbombs is standard on carriers/moms) would destroy the torp virtually guaranteed every time.

With the new hit points though 4 to 5 smartbomb hits would be needed - which means a fitting dedicated to the purpose (lots of bombs), extremely expensive smartbombs and/or overlapping smartbomb fields.

So overall I think your suggestion sounds about right :)

My Pheonix suddenly feels a lot less useless.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Aarin Wrath

Tue, 30 Sep 2009 20:56:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Ok.
Everyone happy?
Oh, and I'll get faction XL Torps authored as well.

Sounds great to me! (and I dont even use Citadel Torps).

Citadel Torpedo's - by CCP Nozh

Tue, 30 Sep 2009 19:52:00 +0000

Ok.

Some basic info:

Citadel Torpedo HP: 650
Normal Torpedo HP: 240
Large Tech II smartbomb damage: 300 DMG

Other factors:

Number of launchers
Speed (It's "almost" impossible to destroy normal Torpedoes with smartbombs)

So to my conclusion:

The Citadel Torpedo HP vs. Damage is a bit low compared to normal Torpedoes if we fix that the HP of the Citadel Torpedoes is boosted to 960 HP. This would also translate directly over if we were to "ever" introduce XL-Smartbombs (doubt it).

Lets not stop there. The Raven, king of torpedoes can mount 6 launchers, but the Phoenix can "only" field 3, this of course makes every missile more vulnerable. By doubling the HP of Citadel Torpedoes we can rectify that.

So end result: Citadel Torpedo HP: 1920

Other things this effects:

One advantage of fitting smartbombs to your capital ship is removed.

Everyone happy?

Oh, and I'll get faction XL Torps authored as well.

Nozh
Game Designer
CCP Games

Citadel Torpedo's - by Vily

Tue, 30 Sep 2009 16:47:00 +0000

can't wait ;p

Citadel Torpedo's - by Rabid Rich

Tue, 30 Sep 2009 12:44:00 +0000

er hope you don't mind me adding this, but while you are on the case Nozh, how about taking 10mins to give the naglfar a boatload more cpu, and move a low to a mid. make it a viable shield tank dread that isn't the instant choice for primary... . you know it makes sense!

would only take 10mins. surely.

/end cheeky parallel posting

Citadel Torpedo's - by Zeneth Darkblieght

Tue, 30 Sep 2009 12:40:00 +0000

Hi,

lol, would be kewl if it can be fixed, I kinda changed my entire skill tree to get away from the pheonix, played a few hours on the test server and didn't do any damage. Would be kewl to have it fixed, probably the sexiest dread out there :P

o7

Citadel Torpedo's - by CCP Nozh

Tue, 30 Sep 2009 12:00:00 +0000

Taking a look at this in the afternoon. Will post before leaving today with updates.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Vily

Sat, 27 Sep 2009 20:18:00 +0000

Thank you.
-

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Sat, 27 Sep 2009 18:59:00 +0000

Originally by: Nova Fox
Wonder when Nozh is going to reply.

/me re-adds phoenix to the training plan
Awesome EVE history

Citadel Torpedo's - by Nova Fox

Sat, 27 Sep 2009 18:17:00 +0000

Wonder when Nozh is going to reply.

Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Fri, 26 Sep 2009 08:39:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.

WOOOOOHOOOOOO it only took 4 months to get a response but at least we know it is being looked into TY CCP

Originally by: CCP Navigator

Thread Locked.

Please note that the General Discussion area is not....

Oh who am I kidding - Continue

Citadel Torpedo's - by Miyamoto Uroki

Fri, 26 Sep 2009 08:21:00 +0000

If the smartbomb problem gets fixed, I don't see a proble with not hitting instantly. That one is a disadvantage, granted. But if you look at the whole package there are some advantages that make up for the non-instant hit, no? Like being able to chose dmg type, hit equal on all ranges, best short term tank in the field etc.

Cap fights shouldn't be like normal fleet fights where after one alpha one opponent is gone.

Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ziester

Fri, 26 Sep 2009 05:54:00 +0000

Originally by: RedLion
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.

/me cancels Amarr training
/me starts Caldari training
/me hopes he is not let down.

They'll probably fix the OP's complaint but being able to hit instantly is still a major advantage for the other dreads. I doubt they will fix all of the problems with the Pheonix in a patch. Perhaps in an expansion one day.

Citadel Torpedo's - by RedLion

Thu, 25 Sep 2009 22:32:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.

/me cancels Amarr training
/me starts Caldari training
/me hopes he is not let down.

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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Thu, 25 Sep 2009 22:08:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.

Wohooooo!!! TY, thats all we ask
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Reptzo

Thu, 25 Sep 2009 16:52:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.

Thank you for responding and looking in to this.

Citadel Torpedo's - by CCP Zulupark

Thu, 25 Sep 2009 16:50:00 +0000

Nozh is going to look into this issue, he'll probably post something here later.

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Thu, 25 Sep 2009 08:51:00 +0000

We should have got a dev response on this topic by now if they acually thought that this was a problem worth looking at. There are smaller threads than this that have got a dev response. This sucks so much!!!

Originally by: CCP Navigator

Thread Locked.

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Oh who am I kidding - Continue

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Thu, 25 Sep 2009 02:25:00 +0000

heck i'd even be at least content if all CCP said was we have heard you and are at least looking into the issue. even lying to us would be better than the you originally placed it in the wrong forum therefore the whole issue is null/void
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Vily

Sat, 20 Sep 2009 13:02:00 +0000

Originally by: RedLion
buff citadel torpedo hp and speed.
buff citadel torpedo damage.

Bring phoenix on pair with the other dreads. (except from scrap metal one)

welll the scrap metal one needs the same buff sadly.
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Citadel Torpedo's - by RedLion

Fri, 19 Sep 2009 06:03:00 +0000

buff citadel torpedo hp and speed.
buff citadel torpedo damage.

Bring phoenix on pair with the other dreads. (except from scrap metal one)

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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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Citadel Torpedo's - by Nayannia Night

Fri, 19 Sep 2009 04:24:00 +0000

Edited by: Nayannia Night on 19/09/2008 04:24:37
why is it everyone whines about the toprs vs smart bombs and not about the fact that any other dread has a chance to fight off, for example, attacking BS. and even a bs can fit a large smart bomb like carriers.

However unlike other dreads vs a non capital ship, they dont worry about the fact that there damage is reduced to 1 damage vs a bs moving 100m/s when they do hit. since missles damage is based on resistance (like guns so nothing special there), but also ship size (vs guns meaning chance to hit, but still possible full damage), and ship velocity vs explosion velocity (unlike guns again with the chance thing).

The Siege mod also reduces the explosion velocity by 92.5%! a rocket under those conditions would have a hard time doing full damage to a moving bs! so a citadel torp with the slowest explosion velocity to reduce it 92% is giving the other ships a damage reduction more than countering the damage bonus. infact it makes the damage reduced to almost nothing!

it would be fine if the torps large explosion radius and slow explosion velocity plus ship resistance were left alone as a factor. that would still make its damage greatly reduced to a smaller ship, but still a threat to a bs squad assaulting it as the other dreads are.

***the fix***

Make the siege mode give a hp bonus to citadels in place of the explosion reduction. this makes normal citadel torps defendable by a smart bomb, but from a seiged dread it can still land hits, and hurt the damn thing (since even a carrier moving gets a good reduction in damage as is)

Citadel Torpedo's - by Fearless Kill

Fri, 19 Sep 2009 03:25:00 +0000

the only reason there were tons of /signed posts were because everyone agrees with it. Granted these type of posts are all over F&D. It would be one thing to edit em all out of all the posts, so we dont have to keep topping this thread to keep it to the attention of ccp

instead all ccp does.... hmmm the peons have a problem with the citadel torps... i know lets ignore it and mod their posts out!

Citadel Torpedo's - by Vily

Mon, 15 Sep 2009 13:17:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Cleaned.

Please note /signed posts are considered spam and will be deleted and are subject to forum warnings and subsequently bans.

Devs may respond in any number of threads but hunting for all the ones on a common theme would take them away from fixing problems so please do not be disappointed if they do not post in any particular thread.

Mate, you have the most important ship class in eve. then you have the fact that one entire race and another half of another race are totally useless within that ship class.

im not asking for a long post on the exact merits of my arguement, im basically just saying i want a dev to come in here and acknowledge there is a SERIOUS PROBLEM and that SOMEONE has recognized that and its being looked at. cause in the other threads i get the impression you all think this shit is working AS INTENDED, and that would be more upsetting than having your weapon system broke for 6+ months and having to bump a thread for 4 of those months.

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Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Sun, 14 Sep 2009 17:06:00 +0000

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Cleaned.

Please note /signed posts are considered spam and will be deleted and are subject to forum warnings and subsequently bans.

Devs may respond in any number of threads but hunting for all the ones on a common theme would take them away from fixing problems so please do not be disappointed if they do not post in any particular thread.

\o/ \o/ \o/

Dev response! \o/ Sure nothing is disclosed about the subject matter but at least we know their listening

Im hoping they increase cit. torp speed to help kill two birds with one stone (Terribly slow cit. missiles and Smartbomb immunity..)

Awesome EVE history

Citadel Torpedo's - by CCP Mitnal

Sun, 14 Sep 2009 17:02:00 +0000

Cleaned.

Please note /signed posts are considered spam and will be deleted and are subject to forum warnings and subsequently bans.

Devs may respond in any number of threads but hunting for all the ones on a common theme would take them away from fixing problems so please do not be disappointed if they do not post in any particular thread.

Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ma Mendes

Sat, 13 Sep 2009 21:36:00 +0000

/signed

Poor Nag and its torps need some love. I can't believe dreads doing 0 damage is perfectly fine with CCP, what about all the poor Caldari Roleplayers they get it even worse!!!11!!

Citadel Torpedo's - by Reptzo

Sat, 13 Sep 2009 20:39:00 +0000

I support the need to fix citadel torps as well.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Vily

Sat, 13 Sep 2009 17:59:00 +0000

(sigh)
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Citadel Torpedo's - by Roy Hawkinz

Thu, 11 Sep 2009 14:36:00 +0000

yup this need to get fixed asp.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Omarvelous

Thu, 11 Sep 2009 13:23:00 +0000

signed - this is a pretty balanced request tbh.
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Immersive

Thu, 11 Sep 2009 07:38:00 +0000

A friendly nudge
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New to the API? GrabRaw XML

It's coming...

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Wed, 10 Sep 2009 21:56:00 +0000

again, i dont think anyone sensible can disagree against this proposal. Just because it isnt spammed like idiotic children would make me think CCP would be MORE inclined to do something about this... but it looks like only the whiney kids get their way around here most of the time
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Catelyn Rose

Tue, 9 Sep 2009 00:23:00 +0000

Don't fly a Phoenix

Probably will never fly a Phoenix

I'll put my name on the line in the name of fairness for all the pilots do want to fly a Phoenix

/signed

Citadel Torpedo's - by Vily

Mon, 8 Sep 2009 22:33:00 +0000

Originally by: Ragel Tropxe
/signed

another example seen today in 111. Virtualy all the cap kill mails had Phoenixes doing zero damage.

If this is "working as intended" then why not give Citadel launchers the same r.o.f buff that normal siege launchers got , then at least Phoenixes would do a good amount of dps if they managed to hit something.

pheonix actually have the highest dps of dreads if they are hitting.

sadly they dont hit ANYTHING that isn't a pos
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Citadel Torpedo's - by Ragel Tropxe

Sat, 6 Sep 2009 15:07:00 +0000

/signed

another example seen today in 111. Virtualy all the cap kill mails had Phoenixes doing zero damage.

If this is "working as intended" then why not give Citadel launchers the same r.o.f buff that normal siege launchers got , then at least Phoenixes would do a good amount of dps if they managed to hit something.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Rawr Cristina

Fri, 5 Sep 2009 05:29:00 +0000

/signed

- Infectious -

Citadel Torpedo's - by Scarlet Visori

Fri, 5 Sep 2009 05:24:00 +0000

help me obi-wan your my only hope!

Citadel Torpedo's - by FullBoat

Thu, 4 Sep 2009 09:34:00 +0000

I am mainly a Caldari toon. I have Battleship 5, cruiser 5, and can fly at least 85% of the Caldari ships. I was going to go for the dread until I saw some kill mails where a FALCON did more damage then a Phoenix. Now, there is something hugely wrong when a frig, T1 or T2, can get more damage on a titan then a dread.
Are they good against POS's? yes
Are they good for anything else? nope
Like another poster put, they need about 15x more HP then they currently have. But, until they change it, it's time to start training either Aamar, or Galente up if you want to get into a dread.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Thu, 4 Sep 2009 05:38:00 +0000

oh im sorry did you fall off the first page!!!!
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Fearless Kill

Wed, 3 Sep 2009 03:11:00 +0000

o/ hi, im the citadel torp in the op.

but seriously.... this cant hide on the back burner just because you put a new patch in which spawns some new ideas... this is a problem... maybe not a bug... but a severely imbalanced issue.

Albeit it doesnt effect a large portion of your accouts so i guess since its not a big $$ issue like nanos, we can assume CCP is trying the "ignore and go away" method of problem solving

Citadel Torpedo's - by Precious Angelica

Mon, 1 Sep 2009 11:26:00 +0000

Originally by: Kel Nissa
Quote:
3 months old thread already now and not even a comment.

Thats the reason for my proposal: ISK donations to get devs looking into specific ideas

Is this what it has come to? People have to offer ISK to get devs to respond?

Devs: Man up already and respond. Quit stalling while trying to come up with some crazy excuse to legitimize the fact that greater than 25% of caps can have their DPS brought to ZERO by a single ship fit with smarties.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Lambda Effective

Mon, 1 Sep 2009 11:00:00 +0000

Edited by: Lambda Effective on 01/09/2008 11:16:28
Citadel torps should have greater HP plain and simple. We're talking a capital-grade weapon here. Its HP should be at least 5-10x that of a torp. A single carrier with a high rack of smartbombs can counter an infinite number of Phoenixes indefinitely. Sub-capital grade smartbombs should not be (100%) effective against capital-grade weaponry.

*note*: The devs have only replied in the other 2 threads started on this topic - and in those cases they only replied because the posts were in the "wrong forum".

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Mon, 1 Sep 2009 10:36:00 +0000

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
And if they 'buff' the citadel torpedo HP enough to withstand 2-3 SB's, it'll still suck in major engagements as you might pass through the sphere of SB of more than just one or two carriers/MS's...

If we're going to have a weapon-system that is this easily disabled, it should at the very least do _MORE_ damage that other dreadnoughts when you get in hits.

well my mates normal cit. torp hits were hitting for more than another non-phoenix dreads wrecking shots..
However that was probly due to dmg types, the cit torp poppage weakness is just terrible imo

Citadel Torpedo's - by Rakshasa Taisab

Mon, 1 Sep 2009 07:23:00 +0000

And if they 'buff' the citadel torpedo HP enough to withstand 2-3 SB's, it'll still suck in major engagements as you might pass through the sphere of SB of more than just one or two carriers/MS's...

If we're going to have a weapon-system that is this easily disabled, it should at the very least do _MORE_ damage that other dreadnoughts when you get in hits.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Scarlet Visori

Mon, 1 Sep 2009 05:53:00 +0000

tehy aren't in this thread....

i wonder if they are worried they might have to actually ARGUE a position rather than make some vague points and close the thread.

what you have is 1/4 of the most important ship class in eve being rendered completely and uterrly useless in all major capital engagements.

HOW IS THAT NOT BROKEN? HOW IS THAT NOT A BUG?

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Sun, 31 Aug 2009 10:30:00 +0000

on the bright side at least someone is responding... : /
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Sun, 31 Aug 2009 10:29:00 +0000

So again basically CCP has answered us "its not a bug, its intended" with answers below from this thread: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=857880&page=1#5

Quote:

CCP Casqade
Posted - 2008.08.29 10:19:00 - [5]

The current mechanic is that torpedoes gets blown up if they take too much damage. This can be done by using a smartbomb or defender missiles.

This is not a bug, since it is by design.

If you think that the design should change, then you are welcome to make a suggestion in the "Features and Ideas discussion forum".

If you want to talk about bugs, then you should bug report the issue after which you are welcome to make a thread about it here.

Again, calling game mechanics you do not like "Broken" and saying that they should be "Fixed" is not the right way to go.
Making a thread in the "Features and Ideas discussion" where you state what the problem is, why it is a problem, how you suggest it should be changed/balanced is constructive.

Quote:

CCP Casqade
Posted - 2008.08.29 11:06:00 - [7]

What I am saying is this: It is not a bug, therefore it should not be in this forum.
I am also saying this: It might need to be balanced, but this is not the correct forum for that. Suggestions go to the "Features and Ideas discussion" forum.

Quote:

CCP Casqade
Posted - 2008.08.29 11:27:00 - [9]

Yes, exactly that. Which is a thread I've linked everyone to that believes that this is a bug so far.
But people seem to insist that smartbombs affecting Citadel Torpedoes is a bug and keep making threads about it in the Game Development forum.

Previous thread: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=846799

If you know bugs that affect the Citadel torpedo, I'm very willing to look into it and discuss them here.

With all this being said... and our thread here on the game design

You can lump smartbombs and defender missiles and the anti-missile, but take the turrets equivilant (tracking disrupter) and try to tracking disrupt a dread in seige. Yeah that!

/resigned

And looking at this because of the speed nerf??? what are my cap ships too nanod for you? if anything most of the nano-nerf after effect posts talk about nerfing missiles done a bit because of their ability to hit alot of stuff... so we gonna make citadel torps slower??? i think a plated BS without mwd/ab could out run it then

------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Sat, 30 Aug 2009 07:59:00 +0000

What Cascade actually said was that CCP have read this thread and it was being looked at with the up and coming missile changes.
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Citadel Torpedo's - by Immersive

Sat, 30 Aug 2009 05:59:00 +0000

/signed with a bump.

I've read the links to the Dev responses, none of which answer any of the questions posed in this thread (or the others, for that matter). Casqade's posts mostly say: "I don't deal with that. You posted to the wrong forum.", which is fine because it's true. Now that we've done as asked, and posted to the correct forum, can we not expect a more focused dialogue?

I'm still waiting to see an appropriate Dev response that's in the context of, and addresses, the problems this thread has put forward.
---
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It's coming...

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 17:24:00 +0000

Originally by: white kight
Edited by: white kight on 29/08/2008 16:21:18
Edited by: white kight on 29/08/2008 16:10:40
Edited by: white kight on 29/08/2008 14:40:40
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=857880
We have our response guys. It appears that CCP are looking into this we just haven't had a response saying that they are.

EDIT: I FAIL AT LINKING - Check Game Development Forum to see what i mean lol

White

Wow if only casqade said earlier "its been listend to" this thread and its mimics wld have died ages ago lol

Proudly annoying FC's since 2007

Citadel Torpedo's - by Vladimir Tinakin

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 17:06:00 +0000

Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 29/08/2008 17:05:52
Pimping this again: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=812695

CSM might be a token balm to the playerbase, but maybe they can argue some stuff to get changed. At the very least, they might get us some response as to the status of the issue.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Kagura Nikon

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 16:07:00 +0000

Originally by: white kight
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: aldarrin
Signed. I'd rather see smartbombs do zero damage against missiles.

don' t think zero. But citatel torps coudl have their speed doubled. So a single smart bobm woudl not be able to get most of them.

Most???? Try all of them. A phoenix's main dps in a fleet fight is drones........until the smartbombs get them too!!!!

well ALL is included in MOST. And torpedoes fired itno dreads usually don't face this problem that is why I didn't used word ALL.

I think yes Smartbobms should be a PARTIAL defense against citatel torps, but never complete unless you use all highslots of a mothership with smartbombs (then I think would be fair)
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 14:40:00 +0000

Edited by: white kight on 29/08/2008 14:40:40
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=857880

We have our response guys. It appears that CCP are looking into this we just haven't had a response saying that they are.

White
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com Saint

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 14:05:00 +0000

Originally by: BiggestT
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=774603

lol yet another post in game development that was replied to by casquade, who insists that it shldnt be in the forum coz its not a literal "bug" (but doesnt say a word about all the boost ship X and boost module X topics which arent about "bugs")

Not happy jan

I like the way they reply to someone with a small thread in the wrong part of the forum. Maybe we should spam the wrong forums about getting citadels sorted then they may actually listen!!!!!!!
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com Saint

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 12:00:00 +0000

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=774603

lol yet another post in game development that was replied to by casquade, who insists that it shldnt be in the forum coz its not a literal "bug" (but doesnt say a word about all the boost ship X and boost module X topics which arent about "bugs")

Not happy jan

Proudly annoying FC's since 2007

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 11:46:00 +0000

Originally by: white kight
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: aldarrin
Signed. I'd rather see smartbombs do zero damage against missiles.

don' t think zero. But citatel torps coudl have their speed doubled. So a single smart bobm woudl not be able to get most of them.

Most???? Try all of them. A phoenix's main dps in a fleet fight is drones........until the smartbombs get them too!!!!

lol, funny when u see PHOENIX, DMG 182, WEAPON OGRE II
on km's..is v.sad

oh and maybe ccp want to suprise us about this like a "ninja-fix" to keep theri cards close to their chest. Sorta like when they fixed ammar but never really said anything about doing that beforehand..
(my hopes still arent high lol)

Proudly annoying FC's since 2007

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 11:31:00 +0000

Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: aldarrin
Signed. I'd rather see smartbombs do zero damage against missiles.

don' t think zero. But citatel torps coudl have their speed doubled. So a single smart bobm woudl not be able to get most of them.

Most???? Try all of them. A phoenix's main dps in a fleet fight is drones........until the smartbombs get them too!!!!
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com Saint

Citadel Torpedo's - by Kagura Nikon

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 10:43:00 +0000

Originally by: aldarrin
Signed. I'd rather see smartbombs do zero damage against missiles.

don' t think zero. But citatel torps coudl have their speed doubled. So a single smart bobm woudl not be able to get most of them.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Citadel Torpedo's - by Kagura Nikon

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 10:41:00 +0000

They already responded 2 tiems in different threads they seem to think citatel torps are fine and work as intended. MAybe tis time to use a rail turret in the phoenix and use 2 offlien slots int he naglfar to overheat better the turrets.
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Fri, 29 Aug 2009 08:30:00 +0000

Back to the top. Cmon can we get a dev response plz?
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Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Thu, 28 Aug 2009 16:07:00 +0000

Originally by: white kight

Edit: You can say shit on the forum??? Still not allowed to say ****pit tho

hehe i always say bullshit, shithole, that takes it up the shitter to get a nasty message across effectively without censorage \o/
poudly annoying fc's since 2007

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
*ding ding!*

Wrangler: Hello and w

*ding ding!*

Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners...*goes back to reading*

Citadel Torpedo's - by white kight

Thu, 28 Aug 2009 16:02:00 +0000

Edited by: white kight on 28/08/2008 16:03:44

Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: white kight
WOW that sucks. CCP don't think that Cit. Torps are broken.........They obviously have never looked at the killmails that we post, EVERY SINGLE ONE WITH PHOENIX'S/NALFALGARS NEAR OR AT THE BOTTOM BECAUSE OUR FING TORPS GET BLOWN UP!!!!!!!!! Thank CCP for allowing me to train for something that doesn't even work properly, 4 bil later and still nothing has been changed. Cheers for that. The Phoenix in terms of all the other dreads is shit at the end of the day. It tanks the least, and does the least amount of damage on another capital than any other dread, or most battleships for that matter. CCP need to look at this instead of them trying to say that they are right all the time and never make a mistake.

/rant

if ONLY u cldve said that in the topic where the dev repsonded before he locked the thread..
THAT wldve been v.nice to see

So do i tbh. I see still no dev response. They will respond to a couple of people saying that they need looked at but not a whole load of people. The amount of damage that phoenix's do against almost anything bar a pos is awful, it is SOOOOOOO far behind every single other dread in terms of damage/tank/ just about everything. Fixing the citadels will actually turn it from being a shit dread into only a slightly worse than all the rest dread.

/rant (again)

Edit: You can say shit on the forum??? Still not allowed to say ****pit tho
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com Saint

Citadel Torpedo's - by Gypsio III

Thu, 28 Aug 2009 14:46:00 +0000

http://killboard.tauceti-federation.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=88993

Phoenixes: 8
Damage dealt: 191
Weapon used: Ogre I.

This is so sad, so broken, I just don't know what to say.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Kel Nissa

Thu, 28 Aug 2009 10:27:00 +0000

Quote:
devs dont need isk Neutral

EVE players are open minded as always :P
Please switch your brains on - it would really help.

Citadel Torpedo's - by aldarrin

Thu, 28 Aug 2009 05:49:00 +0000

Signed. I'd rather see smartbombs do zero damage against missiles.
--
Flame on.

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Wed, 27 Aug 2009 16:55:00 +0000

Originally by: Ignition SemperFi
whats sad is CCP pretending like this isnt a problem atm, and moving it to this board which hardly gets looked at.

Thats like saying we understand we did something with unforseen consequences, but when you bring them up... its not a problem, its just a feature

come on!

/resigned and back to the top

just because all of eve isnt yelling like the nano nerf doesnt mean this is any less of an issue. Having a 1.8b+fittings ship have its entire weapon system(the only reason its in the game is weapons) nulled out by 2 sub 1mill costing items or 1 faction item, fitted on any ship that can fit large smarties... let alone the capital ships it was entended to kill.

This is in no way right. The evidence is there CCP, ignoring it isnt an option

this
poudly annoying fc's since 2007

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
*ding ding!*

Wrangler: Hello and w

*ding ding!*

Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners...*goes back to reading*

Citadel Torpedo's - by Anig Browl

Wed, 27 Aug 2009 07:00:00 +0000

Originally by: John Zorg

I havn't got my pheonix yet but I have been playing around with the Dread on the test server. What a waste of time :\ I have changed my training entirely because of this reason.

I was going to train for it but it sounds pretty obviously Not Worth It. I'm going to do some tests with smart bombs on my BS while my friend fires CTs at it, but as everyone has described it this smartbomb problem is stupid. Pity.

Citadel Torpedo's - by Ignition SemperFi

Wed, 27 Aug 2009 00:32:00 +0000

whats sad is CCP pretending like this isnt a problem atm, and moving it to this board which hardly gets looked at.

Thats like saying we understand we did something with unforseen consequences, but when you bring them up... its not a problem, its just a feature

come on!

/resigned and back to the top

just because all of eve isnt yelling like the nano nerf doesnt mean this is any less of an issue. Having a 1.8b+fittings ship have its entire weapon system(the only reason its in the game is weapons) nulled out by 2 sub 1mill costing items or 1 faction item, fitted on any ship that can fit large smarties... let alone the capital ships it was entended to kill.

This is in no way right. The evidence is there CCP, ignoring it isnt an option
------
People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Tue, 26 Aug 2009 13:14:00 +0000

Originally by: John Zorg
Hi All,

I havn't got my pheonix yet but I have been playing around with the Dread on the test server. What a waste of time :\ I have changed my training entirely because of this reason.

Please can it be looked at.

JZ

tiz a sad thing when one is forced to cross-train for capital ships..minmi pilots feel this too
poudly annoying fc's since 2007

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
*ding ding!*

Wrangler: Hello and w

*ding ding!*

Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners...*goes back to reading*

Citadel Torpedo's - by John Zorg

Mon, 25 Aug 2009 22:28:00 +0000

Hi All,

I havn't got my pheonix yet but I have been playing around with the Dread on the test server. What a waste of time :\ I have changed my training entirely because of this reason.

Please can it be looked at.

JZ

Citadel Torpedo's - by Kagura Nikon

Mon, 25 Aug 2009 15:30:00 +0000

Originally by: Milia Jenius
Edited by: Milia Jenius on 23/08/2008 03:34:22
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Looking at the listed HP of Citadel torps, this should not be possible, but on the test server it is, so something is wrong, something with supposedly over 2300 HP is being brought down by 600 damage. You only need 2 smartbombs to do it, you should need at least 5.

The pre/post siege thing, unfortunately that was an exploit fix. I remember the good old days when you used to be able to drive a phoenix or three outside a POS shield, let off 3 volleys, re-enter the POS shield and hit siege, with torps doing full siege damage, and your phoenix's able to insta pop another dread (pre HP boost) while immune to repercussions. Mind you at that point POS's were a little more nasty to small ships, so it wasn't as easy to be tackled on your way out and back in.

I can't think of any good way to fix that, you shouldn't be letting them off pre-siege, and expecting anything (maybe at most normal damage though this may be harder to calculate), and post-siege again, yep, you lose damage, one reason I guess to not single cycle siege, risk/reward etc etc.

Possible Solutions to Citadel Torpedo Issue

1. Citadel torps before/after siege cycle do 0 damage

To prevent the "fire and hide" exploit, add a piece of code in the siege module to Disallow entering siege mode inside POS shields, and fix a dread's location in space to disallow bumping back into POS after "Siege & fire". There is no point entering siege mode in a POS anyways.

For the similar modules, changes can possibily be done too. Who enters triage mode in a POS shield? Similar changes can be done but there is no much point doing it. The industrial core is fine as it is, just leave it

2. Citadel torps easily destroyed by smartbombs

Missile destruction should be in the domain of defender missiles, leave smartbombs out of the equation, they are for drones & fighters.

The simple solution to this is simple (Ooops! )

- Increase the HP of ALL MISSILES by 10 folds

- Increase the damage of DEFENDER MISSILES by 10 folds

This will allow the defender missiles to do its job while leaving missiles close to unkillable to smartbombs. Smartbombs won't be affected as they can still kill drones and fighters.

These issues affect 2 out of total 4 dreads in EVE and possibily those who decide to mount citadel torp launchers on their titans, PLEASE get this fixed or at least gives us a reply ASAP

Just my 2 cents

Don't think you need 10 fold increase. Enough to survive 2 hits from Smartbombs would be enough for citatel torps. SWo you can stil defend yourself from them, but to do so you need to use 3 modules. (think its fair since the phoenix is firing with 3 modules on you..)

- Milia Jenius

-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Citadel Torpedo's - by BiggestT

Mon, 25 Aug 2009 11:42:00 +0000

Originally by: Kel Nissa
Quote:
3 months old thread already now and not even a comment.

Thats the reason for my proposal: ISK donations to get devs looking into specific ideas

devs dont need isk
poudly annoying fc's since 2007

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
*ding ding!*

Wrangler: Hello and w

*ding ding!*

Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners...*goes back to reading*

Citadel Torpedo's - by Kel Nissa

Sun, 24 Aug 2009 11:40:00 +0000

Quote:
3 months old thread already now and not even a comment.

Thats the reason for my proposal: ISK donations to get devs looking into specific ideas