EVE-Search ForumWatch http://eve-search.com/ The alternative EVE-Online Forum browser. en-us Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:00:00 +0000 EVE-Search RSS Module v1.1 chribba@evemail <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=10#276 Originally by: Odessima
I can think of lots of reasons for why not,

So start listing them.
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only reason why I can think of is lazyness. To me if you want the warp to 0, you may as well ask for everything else to be automated while your AFK as well,


Why ?

Only reason I can see here is the slippery slope fallacy which isn't a valid argument unless you can say why the first thing will lead to the second.
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defences, weapons, shield, or armour activation ( because I am quite sure that that could all be automated as well so you dont get a sore mouse finger ).

Well up until your facing multiple targets, then how would you have the computer decide which target should be shot at ?
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Some of us even actually enjoy not being afk.

So don't use WTZ AP if it comes out.

Originally by: Bobbechk
AP is a rather inaccurate tool, and the 15km safety-zone is added for your safety as the AP might throw you tumbling into the gate itself causing structural damage to your internet spaceship!

there you go RP....

The 'safety' argument again Rolling Eyes

Why is telling your ships navigition systems to warp to zero manually any safer than having the autopilot tell it to do the same thing ?

In fact, what does AFK even mean in a RP context ?

And before you answer, go read through my posts in this thread to make sure I haven't already answered the argument you bring.

Originally by: Belmarduk
No I disagree.
warp to zero is fine as it is - It was needed to get rid of the millions of bookmarks.
AP to zero is a completly different matter though !

Its fine as it is now:
If you want to warp to 0 you must fly manual
If you want to fly afk/semiafk - you take longer plus its less safe !!!

Risk/Reward !!

So the current system is fine because the current system is fine ?

So why is having to chose between a longer trip, or being stuck playing a boring part of the game as a good thing ?
Well unless I was playing Eve for a reason other than my own entertainment.
And the areas where it isn't boring to use manual WTZ (gatecamps where you need to make the right choices to escape) are going to give the WTZ AP problems because it will ignore them and attempt to reach the next stargate, instead of trying to fight. Even if you are at the controls , WTZ AP will still decloak you before you get to see what ships are camping the gate.]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2009 23:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/9015559 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Bobbechk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=10#275
there you go RP....

]]> Wed, 22 Oct 2009 20:55:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/9006924 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Belmarduk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=10#274 warp to zero is fine as it is - It was needed to get rid of the millions of bookmarks.
AP to zero is a completly different matter though !

Its fine as it is now:
If you want to warp to 0 you must fly manual
If you want to fly afk/semiafk - you take longer plus its less safe !!!

Risk/Reward !!


Mainchar:


]]> Wed, 22 Oct 2009 19:24:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/9006289 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Odessima]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=10#273 Wed, 22 Oct 2009 10:42:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/9003243 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Thargat]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=10#272
and again to answer the question: How about NEVER? Is never a good time for you? Cool


There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.]]> Wed, 22 Oct 2009 09:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/9002929 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=10#271 Originally by: Torin Corax
Edited by: Torin Corax on 21/10/2008 01:32:24
Originally by: Hesod Adee


And it gives pirates an advantage without requiring any skill on their part.


Much like autopilot wtz gives afk pilots a huge advantage for even less skill.

Except that manual WTZ doesn't require any skill in the first place.
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at least with the bribe the pirate has to part with some isk,

The size of this bribe would effect this a lot. Any idea what size you want, or will you leave that up to CCP ?

For instance, if it is too cheap we could easily get a group of players who sit on every gate along a major route, sending bribes for every player who looks like they are heading to the next gate. Too expensive and it won't get used.
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not to mention taking a guess as to which gate the target is warping to. However a well organised squad with good scouts and a pilot on each gate would lower the margin for error, now the advantage is with the well prepared team, which is how it should be imo.


True for systems with several gates and stations. But in the systems with 2 or 3 gates and no stations it may be possible to just bribe both gates and hope the pilot isn't heading to a POS.

Then there is the issue of how long a freighter will take to travel out to the 10km distance, turn around, then fly back. So how much time will a freighter pilot be held up at the gate ?

What about if they were simply held within jumping distance of the gate ?

On a roleplay note, why should this only effect people on autopilot ?

Wouldn't this also give an advantage to players with longer names, because they take longer to type in ?
Especially if they have non-English characters in them. (I'm not sure if we can use non-English characters or not in character names)
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On a more serious note, travelling long distance is something we all have to do on occasion. If you make a living as a trader/ hauler then the boredom is just the price you pay for the isk you make.

True. But I'm expecting the shorter trips to reduce the profit per trip. I'm just not sure how it will effect profit per hour.
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Much as it would be nice to have faster

It's only faster than the current autopilot. I don't speak for the others, but I'll be using a WTZ AP instead of manual flight. Meaning it won't save me any time.
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/ safer travel

Nor will it be safer for me. As I've said several times, I'm pretty sure that a WTZ AP will be less safe than manual WTZ for much of the time.

And most traders stick to high sec anyway where there isn't much danger unless their cargo is too expensive for their tank.
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I for one think it would be just another step closer to "Dumb EvE".

And I feel that a gameplay mechanic that consists of hitting the same 3 commands over and over is a dumber mechanic for Eve when all it does is keep people at their keyboards.
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If travelling is really that much of a pain then it is entirely possible to play eve without ever leaving a system, not much fun, but possible.
Space is big. Travelling through it takes time. And for the lazy/ impatient or careless it is fatal. Working as intended as far as I can see.

Given I already use manual flight to fly everywhere, I don't see my travel times being reduced.
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I support skill queues.]]> Wed, 22 Oct 2009 03:52:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/9002928 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Torin Corax]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#270 Originally by: Hesod Adee


And it gives pirates an advantage without requiring any skill on their part.


Much like autopilot wtz gives afk pilots a huge advantage for even less skill. at least with the bribe the pirate has to part with some isk, not to mention taking a guess as to which gate the target is warping to. However a well organised squad with good scouts and a pilot on each gate would lower the margin for error, now the advantage is with the well prepared team, which is how it should be imo.
]]> Tue, 21 Oct 2009 01:04:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8994777 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#269 Edited by: Hesod Adee on 20/10/2008 23:05:12
Originally by: Torin Corax
I don't like the idea of auto-pilot to zero, however I would be happy to give it my full support if the following mechanic (or similar) was implemented:

Bribing the Gate ContollerTwisted Evil

1) Upon identifying a possible APTZ pilot a player can right-click a gate and select the "Bribe" option.
2)In the dialog box that follows you enter the name of the pilot you wish to delay.
3) You receive a quote for the amount required to bribe the gate controller to place the incoming ship in a holding pattern. This quote would be based on three things, system security level, security standing of the target pilot and security standing of the would-be briber.
4)Accepting the quote will trigger a countdown, should the target warp to that gate during this countdown his/ her ship will be put in a 10 km orbit of the gate for 30 seconds before approaching and jumping.

Any player caught like this would be able to disengage auto pilot and immediately resume their journey manually, either by approaching the gate and jumping, or by warping off.
This could be one way to allow for faster travel in eve (a good thing imo) but without removing all the risk inherent in using autopilot. After all, if you really want to play afk then there should always be a way to make you payTwisted Evil


And it gives pirates an advantage without requiring any skill on their part.
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I support skill queues.]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 23:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8994224 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#268 Originally by: Ignition SemperFi
I never "conceded" on the point that WTZ AP makes things safer, it would there is no way you can argue against that. Also gate camps can work on the arrival gate as much as they can work on the outbound gate. WTZ ap takes that away.

So how exactly does the WTZ AP make things safer than manual WTZ ?

Comparing with the current autopilot isn't relevant because most people don't use it in the dangerous areas. And I don't care about the idiots that use the current autopilot in those areas, or the pathetic pirates that only prey on them.
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As far as your arguement that if your in a ship that wont be caught by a camp why must you click buttons repetivately... i guess your looking for the 1 click "i win button"

So getting somewhere without being bored is somehow an "I win" button. Your standards for victory seem really low.
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One thing we both agree on is the travel system sucks, but it is still a neccessary part of the gameplay. And a ship with WTZ AP may be more risky than manual flight in some instances but on a whole it makes it too easy to avoid camps.

How does decloaking before the player has a chance to size up the camp make it harder to catch him ?
The best answer I have here is when the player would make the exact same steps as the autopilot. Making him equally hard to catch.

So give me a scenario where the WTZ AP makes someone easier to catch than a person using manual WTZ.
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You examples of a ships that wont be caught in a camp... any ship out there can be caught, its how its played but WTZ makes it harder to catch,

How does the WTZ AP, which does the same thing every time, make it harder to catch a ship than if it was piloted by someone who thought about his move ?
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but the reason they get that benefit is they are actually playing the game... a WTZ AP takes away from that ability. As far as WTZ AP being more risky than manual flight in a ship that could get caught... yes but no where as risky as it is with the current AP.

Who uses the current AP in risky areas ?
The only ones I hear about are people getting suicide ganked in freighters, which take so long to align that they should be very vulnerable on the outbound gate. Especially if the WTZ AP gets to the destination while the pilot is still AFK
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Trying to negate that risk only furthers to dumb down the risk in this game.

I'm still not seeing any increased risk of WTZ AP over manual WTZ.
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There is risk/reward in this game. You want the reward of traveling multiple systems without having to actually play the game, yeah there is gonna be some risk involved or extra time involved.

And where is this extra risk in high sec autopiloting currently when you aren't at war ?
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Even to the ppl saying, "ya just in empire", it takes away from empire wars effectiveness.

Which idiots use the current autopilot while under a war dec ?
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As far as the choose between reptitve clicking of buttons that servers to keep you at the controls or take longer to arrive... play the game ffs, stop trying to afk the whole eve experience.

Still waiting for an argument as to why repeating the same boring steps over and over is a good game mechanic.
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Either way im just going to have to agree to disagree with you. We differ in opinions and see gameplay differently. I play the game, even travel i consider playing, though a little less enjoyable than PVP is still very much apart of this game.

We won't make you use the WTZ AP if you don't want to.
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I support skill queues.]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 23:01:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8994223 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by fightingblind]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#267 freighters would automatically be able to WTZ (Thinks of the time it would take for a freighter to travel more than 1km as being insanity)
level 5 of this skill would allow battleships, battlecruisers, and industrial haulers to WTZ and would have frigates and cruisers warp to like 3-5km of the gate.

As for autopiloting I agree that 10-15km is a good downside for leaving your computer or doing something else
]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 12:50:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8990459 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Ignition SemperFi]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#266 Originally by: Hesod Adee

First of all, your argument was that WTZ AP would make things safer. Given that you are changing your argument, I can only assume you have conceded that point.

When your in a ship that won't be caught in a camp, why is it a good thing to have to chose between repetitive clicking of buttons that only serves to keep you at the controls or taking longer to arrive ?

If your in a ship that could get caught, the WTZ AP will still be more risky than manual flight.

Another point that keeps being brought up. But CCP didn't need to bring in manual WTZ when the removed instas, they could of just forced everyone to warp to 15km.

Why is having to chose between boredom or a longer travel time a good thing ?


I never "conceded" on the point that WTZ AP makes things safer, it would there is no way you can argue against that. Also gate camps can work on the arrival gate as much as they can work on the outbound gate. WTZ ap takes that away.

As far as your arguement that if your in a ship that wont be caught by a camp why must you click buttons repetivately... i guess your looking for the 1 click "i win button"

One thing we both agree on is the travel system sucks, but it is still a neccessary part of the gameplay. And a ship with WTZ AP may be more risky than manual flight in some instances but on a whole it makes it too easy to avoid camps. You examples of a ships that wont be caught in a camp... any ship out there can be caught, its how its played but WTZ makes it harder to catch, but the reason they get that benefit is they are actually playing the game... a WTZ AP takes away from that ability. As far as WTZ AP being more risky than manual flight in a ship that could get caught... yes but no where as risky as it is with the current AP. Trying to negate that risk only furthers to dumb down the risk in this game.

There is risk/reward in this game. You want the reward of traveling multiple systems without having to actually play the game, yeah there is gonna be some risk involved or extra time involved. Even to the ppl saying, "ya just in empire", it takes away from empire wars effectiveness.

As far as the choose between reptitve clicking of buttons that servers to keep you at the controls or take longer to arrive... play the game ffs, stop trying to afk the whole eve experience.

Either way im just going to have to agree to disagree with you. We differ in opinions and see gameplay differently. I play the game, even travel i consider playing, though a little less enjoyable than PVP is still very much apart of this game.




]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 12:00:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8990057 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Torin Corax]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#265
Bribing the Gate ContollerTwisted Evil

1) Upon identifying a possible APTZ pilot a player can right-click a gate and select the "Bribe" option.
2)In the dialog box that follows you enter the name of the pilot you wish to delay.
3) You receive a quote for the amount required to bribe the gate controller to place the incoming ship in a holding pattern. This quote would be based on three things, system security level, security standing of the target pilot and security standing of the would-be briber.
4)Accepting the quote will trigger a countdown, should the target warp to that gate during this countdown his/ her ship will be put in a 10 km orbit of the gate for 30 seconds before approaching and jumping.

Any player caught like this would be able to disengage auto pilot and immediately resume their journey manually, either by approaching the gate and jumping, or by warping off.
This could be one way to allow for faster travel in eve (a good thing imo) but without removing all the risk inherent in using autopilot. After all, if you really want to play afk then there should always be a way to make you payTwisted Evil




]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 11:28:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8989881 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Sokratesz]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#264 ]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 09:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8989470 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#263 Originally by: Ignition SemperFi
the point is you shouldnt receive the WTZ bonuses that actively controlled ships get by being afk.

First of all, your argument was that WTZ AP would make things safer. Given that you are changing your argument, I can only assume you have conceded that point.

When your in a ship that won't be caught in a camp, why is it a good thing to have to chose between repetitive clicking of buttons that only serves to keep you at the controls or taking longer to arrive ?

If your in a ship that could get caught, the WTZ AP will still be more risky than manual flight.
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The main reason WTZ was even implemented was because everyone and there mother had thousands of bookmarks and it was killing the database... not to mention the lag from Bm copying and everything else.

Another point that keeps being brought up. But CCP didn't need to bring in manual WTZ when the removed instas, they could of just forced everyone to warp to 15km.
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If your AFK why should WTZ help you... you still get where you are going with autopilot while by being AFK. This game is meant to be actively controlled. You want to play afk, you dont get some of the same benefits

Why is having to chose between boredom or a longer travel time a good thing ?
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I support skill queues.]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 06:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8988849 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Xzar Fyrarr]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#262 Edited by: Xzar Fyrarr on 20/10/2008 04:18:59
Embarassed:S double post xD
Sleepyness overtakes.
]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 04:17:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8988493 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Ignition SemperFi]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#261
The main reason WTZ was even implemented was because everyone and there mother had thousands of bookmarks and it was killing the database... not to mention the lag from Bm copying and everything else.

If your AFK why should WTZ help you... you still get where you are going with autopilot while by being AFK. This game is meant to be actively controlled. You want to play afk, you dont get some of the same benefits
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People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"]]> Mon, 20 Oct 2009 01:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8988041 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#260
How many times has this argument come up already ?

Originally by: Ignition SemperFi
NO.... and a big no to the empire only but not 0.0 ppl as this takes away part of the empire warfare aspect of pvp in highsec. This just allows alot of these afk corps that are wardeced to almost travel with immunity while they arent even paying attention.

You want to use autopilot.... there are downfalls in the system. Live or die by them


Pity that manual WTZ is so boring in the areas when a WTZ AP would help, even when under a war dec. Oh dear, I just jumped into a war targets gate camp in a shuttle what shall I do ?
Oh wait, they have nothing that can lock me before I enter warp. So I'll just warp to wherever I was going to warp anyway. So the WTZ AP doesn't give any advantage.

But the WTZ AP does have two major disadvantages over manual WTZ:

1 - If they could catch your ship, unless you do something smart, the WTZ AP will decloak you before you get to think about what action to take which could screw you over even if you were at the controls.

2 - If they are camping the end of your journey with manual WTZ you will be at the controls. But if your using WTZ AP, then you might be AFK. And if your AFK you become a target when your cloak runs out.


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I support skill queues.]]> Sun, 19 Oct 2009 23:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8987682 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Ignition SemperFi]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#259
You want to use autopilot.... there are downfalls in the system. Live or die by them
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People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.

Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW"]]> Sun, 19 Oct 2009 19:00:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8986298 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Manos Soban]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#258 ]]> Thu, 16 Oct 2009 13:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8962503 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by W3370Pi4]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#257 **********************************************
Vitreous Mercoxit ! What else
*****************************************]]> Mon, 6 Oct 2009 20:04:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8891886 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by The Vixen]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#256

]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 11:53:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8849812 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by chiisai sakana]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#255 like it when things don't act like in real world when things go their way (like ammunition not hitting asteroids or other things that are in the way)
but when things don't: autopilot warps to 15km, 100m CNR is really a normal raven, corp hangar emptied by ewful piwate, the lie about the cake etc.

then they flock here to complain about a feature that is "working as intended"
]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 11:49:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8849811 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#254 Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Can some dev please educate this guy so we can put the topic to rest?


If you want the devs to comment, go bring this up in the assembly hall.
]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 04:28:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8848119 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#253 Originally by: Am Li
No instas, ruins the you play the game you actually get a bonus

Here is how one flys around in high sec (or low sec if you align fast enough):

1 - Warp to next stargate.
2 - Right click -> set as first waypoint
3 - Autopilot on
4 - Wait until you hear sound of you entering the next system.
5 - Repeat 1-4 until you reach your destination system.

I think most people would call this the boring parts that exist between the fun parts.
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and just begs to ruin the traders market


How ?
For stuff players use we still have the same number of people making/mining them, and the same number buying them.
Any problems this causes with the NPC trade goods can be fixed by changing the size of their orders.

Originally by: Msgerbs
Better idea: Don't use autopilot, or nano your ship. Problem solved. I dont want haulers being able to AFK through lowsec safely.


Read through some of my posts in this thread then tell me exactly how a WTZ AP will make travelling through low sec safer than a WTZ manual flight. Especially my posts saying exactly why I think that a ship using AP in low sec is less safe than a ship using manual WTZ.

Quote:
And have the tutorial recommend NOT using the autopilot?


There are two reasons for not using the autopilot:
1 - If something unexpected happens (like you jumping into a gate camp) the autopilot will break your cloak before you even get to see the camp. So even if you were at the controls, the autopilot just removed the time you would of had to decide your next move.
2 - The autopilot has to travel the 15km to the gate after leaving warp.

Removing 2 will only effect camps that try to catch people warping to the gate, and I've only ever seen that outside of 0.0 once. And that one time was someone using smartbombs, meaning there was nothing I could do to save my inty even though I was using manual flight. A WTZ AP would not of saved me. But if I had been flying a ship with enough hp to survive the cycle of smartbombs, both what I use now and WTZ AP would of got me through the gate.
]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 04:27:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8848118 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Msgerbs]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#252
And have the tutorial recommend NOT using the autopilot?
]]> Tue, 30 Sep 2009 03:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8847881 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Danton Marcellus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#251 Mon, 29 Sep 2009 20:00:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8845756 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Am Li]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#250 DOMINION GAMING, LAID BACK GAMING CLAN
Recruitment Thread
Homepage]]> Mon, 29 Sep 2009 14:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8844009 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Tiberius Corvinus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#249 Originally by: Hesod Adee
Originally by: Tiberius Corvinus
What's wrong with this idea ?

It doesn't solve any of the problems that WTZ AP attempts to solve.

Not based on the extremes of AP WTZ or not. I was attempting to pacify and provide a balance. I much prefer your idea of just providing AP WTZ everywhere, all the time, for all ships. You've already addressed all the issues with it and pretty much neuted them, but that hasn't stopped the detractors. If they think that low-sec/0.0 (actually 0.0-0.25) would not be affected by this, they are less likely to argue against.

For anyone against, how about just having the AP kick in any afterburner/MWD between leaving warp and arriving at a gate?

Again, I'd rather just have AP WTZ and be done with it. In the case of EVE, it's the destination and not the journey that's the fun part.
]]> Mon, 11 Aug 2009 15:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8511196 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Tiberius Corvinus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#248 Originally by: Hesod Adee
Originally by: Tiberius Corvinus
Couple of simple suggestions:

(1) Allow AP WTZ for shuttles. This gives them more of a reason to exist. They can't mount anything so no other changes would be required.

Interesting idea. But people who want to travel long distances with other ships (such as cargo haulers) still have to chose between getting their slowly, or being really bored.


I agree. But isn't that one of the complaints against AP WTZ? My goal was to provide a fast means of transit and make shuttles more useful. I wasn't trying to expound the problems with AP WTZ. You just provided another reason to not provide AP WTZ for anything other than a shuttle.

Originally by: Wendat Huron
So you're proposing shuttles being the new noob alt recon ship to zip past camps getting their make without giving them the satisfaction of nuking you?


How is this any different than using it (or any other ship for that matter) as a 'noob alt recon ship'? If I'm using a non-aggro'd alt to recon using a shuttle, right now, I still have no weapons and no defenses and I'm a neut. I also can't do anything more than get a quick count of how many ships are there -- MAYBE what kind, but no solid tactical info since there's no scanning ability. What I'm proposing doesn't change that. Hesod has already done an excellent job of addressing WTZ -v- gatecamp issues.

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And Hesod pretty much covered the issues with gatecamps.

(2) Make the AP WT value a function of the security status. For example just use the security status as a percentage of 15km, so in 0.0 15km is as close as you get, 7.5km in a 0.5, 1.5km in a 0.9, and WTZ in a 1.0. For RP purposes you can say that the gate does beaconing and in safer areas the signal is stronger or less prone to interference or whatever. Then if you are concerned about AP WTZ making trade to easy, the only way it would be effective is if you set AP to 'safe' systems where you will get routes that are 15-20 jumps or more instead of 5.

Still doesn't solve the problem because you are still having the AP being slower than manual flight.

And roleplay reasons are never going to work because as far as roleplaying is concerned, the pilot is always at the controls. But even if roleplay allowed AFKers, you still don't explain why the human pilot can magically do better than the computer.


'Slower' is a relative term. I was looking to balance the concern of making AP flight avoid all virtually all contact. This would still be faster in anything, what, 0.25 or higher? Perhaps I should have started my suggestion with "I agree with Hesod that AP WTZ should be implemented. However, if you are concerned with it being used to avoid all contact between gates because someone wouldn't have time to lock, how about this idea..."

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(3) Lastly, tack on some more 'orientation time' at the beginning or end of the AP function if you really think that getting through gatecamps faster in high-sec space is oh-so-terribly bad.

What do you call orientation time ?

There's already a delay when coming through a gate and warping to the next gate in AP. I was suggesting another method of satiating the non AP WTZ factions. On second thought, you're right. Let's not add anymore delay.
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There, now newbies are safe,

No safer than they are now because the AP is still very risky in low sec

Yes, but still safer than they were before my suggestion. 0.0-0.25 space would still result in non AP WTZ. You can change the AP settings to give a course that avoids anything below 0.3 and then you can AP WTZ to your hearts content.
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shuttles are more useful, and gatecamping still works.

Except you agreed with me when I said that gatecamping won't be hurt by WTZ AP because the AP would screw up camps that are easily escaped by manual flight.

And why is my agreeing with you bad? ;)

]]> Mon, 11 Aug 2009 15:40:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8511195 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#247 Originally by: Tiberius Corvinus
Couple of simple suggestions:

(1) Allow AP WTZ for shuttles. This gives them more of a reason to exist. They can't mount anything so no other changes would be required.

Interesting idea. But people who want to travel long distances with other ships (such as cargo haulers) still have to chose between getting their slowly, or being really bored.
Quote:
And Hesod pretty much covered the issues with gatecamps.

(2) Make the AP WT value a function of the security status. For example just use the security status as a percentage of 15km, so in 0.0 15km is as close as you get, 7.5km in a 0.5, 1.5km in a 0.9, and WTZ in a 1.0. For RP purposes you can say that the gate does beaconing and in safer areas the signal is stronger or less prone to interference or whatever. Then if you are concerned about AP WTZ making trade to easy, the only way it would be effective is if you set AP to 'safe' systems where you will get routes that are 15-20 jumps or more instead of 5.

Still doesn't solve the problem because you are still having the AP being slower than manual flight.

And roleplay reasons are never going to work because as far as roleplaying is concerned, the pilot is always at the controls. But even if roleplay allowed AFKers, you still don't explain why the human pilot can magically do better than the computer.

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(3) Lastly, tack on some more 'orientation time' at the beginning or end of the AP function if you really think that getting through gatecamps faster in high-sec space is oh-so-terribly bad.

What do you call orientation time ?
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There, now newbies are safe,

No safer than they are now because the AP is still very risky in low sec
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shuttles are more useful, and gatecamping still works.

Except you agreed with me when I said that gatecamping won't be hurt by WTZ AP because the AP would screw up camps that are easily escaped by manual flight.
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What's wrong with this idea ?

It doesn't solve any of the problems that WTZ AP attempts to solve.
]]> Sun, 10 Aug 2009 20:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8505705 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Wendat Huron]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#246






These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!]]> Sun, 10 Aug 2009 15:49:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8504417 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Tiberius Corvinus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#245
(1) Allow AP WTZ for shuttles. This gives them more of a reason to exist. They can't mount anything so no other changes would be required.

And Hesod pretty much covered the issues with gatecamps.

Originally by: Hesod Adee

Lets look at the types of camp you may encounter:

- Those you can warp away from without even caring how far you need to turn. No challenge here.
- Those you have to pick your warp destination carefully*, otherwise they scram you. Oh dear, the WTZ AP decloaked you before you even got a chance to figure out which direction was safe. Unless you get lucky and warp in a safe direction, the AP will get you killed here even if you are at the computer. It might save the pod though.
- Those you need to use your modules (MWD, ECM, weapons, etc) correctly to escape from. AP doesn't use them and instead just tries to warp without even turning on the hardeners. When that fails, you die.
- Those you can't escape from. The AP gets you killed without even trying to take one of them down with you. But if your on manual flight, you could take one down, or they could offer a ransom.

So tell me, what exactly makes the AP get you through camps safer than manual WTZ ?


(2) Make the AP WT value a function of the security status. For example just use the security status as a percentage of 15km, so in 0.0 15km is as close as you get, 7.5km in a 0.5, 1.5km in a 0.9, and WTZ in a 1.0. For RP purposes you can say that the gate does beaconing and in safer areas the signal is stronger or less prone to interference or whatever. Then if you are concerned about AP WTZ making trade to easy, the only way it would be effective is if you set AP to 'safe' systems where you will get routes that are 15-20 jumps or more instead of 5.

(3) Lastly, tack on some more 'orientation time' at the beginning or end of the AP function if you really think that getting through gatecamps faster in high-sec space is oh-so-terribly bad.

There, now newbies are safe, shuttles are more useful, and gatecamping still works. What's wrong with this idea (and if you are thinking of responding with 'no' or 'do it manually' or any other knee-jerk response which doesn't require you to think and post a complete, cogent thought clearly stating WHY this is harmful to gameply, then don't bother)?
]]> Sun, 10 Aug 2009 10:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8502986 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Xzar Fyrarr]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#244 Originally by: Tom Deal
Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation?

Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms?

Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what?

Something does not fit Question

TD
'


No just no.
You want to autopolit quickly you do it yourself.
You don't want to do it yourself you get in a travel fitted ship and/or a shuttle and autopilot warp2 15km of gate

]]> Sun, 10 Aug 2009 04:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8501806 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#243 Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
the roleplaying reason could be that since your computer is Ap'ing your ship, it has safety protocols in place, and if you warped to 0m, you might hit the gate and die, so they drop you 15km from the gate to prevent collisions


Sounds like a horrible safety system when a pilot can just override it under manual flight. Especially since manual controls would be less accurate than automatic, and if we are thinking about roleplay, the pilot can not go AFK.

Lets do some math here. An AU is 149,597,870,691 30 metres (source). Lets call that 150,000,000km to make calculations easier, since it won't have a significant effect on the outcome.

Lets take a 3AU/s ship. So 450million km/s. Both the AP and manual flight accelerate and decelerate at the same rate, so to come out of warp 15km from the gate means it must start slowing down 15km ahead of where the manual flight player starts slowing down if they both reached full speed.

So how many seconds is that ?

15/450,000,000 = 3.33... * 10-8. Or 0.000,000,033,333,...

You can do the math for other ship speeds.

Now go take a stopwatch that measures to the 1/100th of a second. Reset it to 0, start the timer, then get it to stop at exactly 30 seconds. Every time you stop the timer, reset the stopwatch.

For those of you who still think that humans can have faster reactions than computers (which can measure the small fractions of time), I want you to get it stopping at exactly 30 seconds at least 10 times in a row. Then tell me how long you had to spend practising.

And we are only talking about an interval of 1*10-2 here. It is trivial to write a program that can do it every single time.

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HELL NO, if people could warp to 0, everyone would be AP'ing everywhere pretty much without fear of hitting a normal gate camp, would make the game WAAAY to easy

as said already, if you want the benefit of getting through a gate camp alive, do it manually

Lets look at the types of camp you may encounter:

- Those you can warp away from without even caring how far you need to turn. No challenge here.
- Those you have to pick your warp destination carefully*, otherwise they scram you. Oh dear, the WTZ AP decloaked you before you even got a chance to figure out which direction was safe. Unless you get lucky and warp in a safe direction, the AP will get you killed here even if you are at the computer. It might save the pod though.
- Those you need to use your modules (MWD, ECM, weapons, etc) correctly to escape from. AP doesn't use them and instead just tries to warp without even turning on the hardeners. When that fails, you die.
- Those you can't escape from. The AP gets you killed without even trying to take one of them down with you. But if your on manual flight, you could take one down, or they could offer a ransom.

So tell me, what exactly makes the AP get you through camps safer than manual WTZ ?

*Turning a full 180 is slower than going in the direction your facing. This can be the difference between being locked and scrambled, or getting out safely.
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 23:00:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8500727 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Re'taka]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#242
What is an issue, is a freighter pilot, or even an itty5 APing from jita to rens with a boat load of high value goods to sell, without ever having to "play" the game, load up in jita, undock, auto, dock, sell, fast easy isk. thats the unbalanced part. and why it should always be no, you want WTZ cheat and hope you don't get caught, or do what the rest of us do, sit at the PC and warp yourself.

On a side note for you indy pilots, one of the devs, I don't remember which said you could jam the shortcut key on your keyboard to run an AB or MWD, it will auto start the mod every time you load a system.
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 18:18:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8499314 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by strasny spion]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=9#241 Originally by: TharOkha
Originally by: Tom Deal
Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation?

Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms?

Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what?

Something does not fit Question

TD

well i am for it, but give to it some balance.. in hisec warp-to-0km should work. but if you passing losec and null, it should be still w-t-15km.

sounds like a good idea]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 15:59:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8499313 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by soldieroffortune 258]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#240 Originally by: Frug
Yes. What is the roleplaying reason for this?

I think I understand the gameplay balance reason, but not really. It makes low sec less safe I guess. But... But why?

Pirate: YAR so's I kin gank ye when yer stupid enough ta be APin' around in me 0.0 system. YAR!

Me: Fine I will sit and click a button.



the roleplaying reason could be that since your computer is Ap'ing your ship, it has safety protocols in place, and if you warped to 0m, you might hit the gate and die, so they drop you 15km from the gate to prevent collisions


secondly to respond to the OP's post


HELL NO, if people could warp to 0, everyone would be AP'ing everywhere pretty much without fear of hitting a normal gate camp, would make the game WAAAY to easy

as said already, if you want the benefit of getting through a gate camp alive, do it manually
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 15:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8498467 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by TharOkha]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#239 Originally by: Tom Deal
Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation?

Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms?

Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what?

Something does not fit Question

TD

well i am for it, but give to it some balance.. in hisec warp-to-0km should work. but if you passing losec and null, it should be still w-t-15km.
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 15:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8498466 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Nareg Maxence]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#238 Originally by: Sweet Rosella

Bring back warp to 15 and disallow bookmarks upto 100k from gates.

Job done and we can all pewpew

You are not really thinking it through. If it was done as you suggest, people would make bookmarks 100km behind the gate and use warp to 100km to land right on the gate. You are essentially suggesting we bring back the old system, which was scrapped for well known reasons.
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 13:39:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8497886 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Sweet Rosella]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#237 Edited by: Sweet Rosella on 09/08/2008 08:53:23


Bring back warp to 15 and disallow bookmarks upto 100k from gates.

Job done and we can all pewpew

]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 08:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8496417 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Praleon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#236
The people who ask for these changes are likely people that have friends or obligations in multiple regions, which is no sin at all.

Other people include haulers and other legitimate players who earn SLOW MONEY by carrying goods from point A to point B.

Your mission runners, AKA, Free High Sec Money Kids, don't want WTZ because it won't help them any.

Your cheaters, AKA, macro-miners et al, ALREADY HAVE AUTOPILOT WARP TO ZERO.

Your 0.0 guys, AKA, Guys who get to have fun in PVP all the time because they are at an advanced part of the game, don't want warp to zero on autopilot because it makes gatecamping 3% less profitable since they can't auto-kill autopiloters anymore.

Point 1) Stop calling people lazy because you are afraid that you won't get a free kill against their autopiloted ship, that's lazy and equally cowardly too, not to mention hypocritical.

Point 2) If you want to play the "travel" part of this game so bad, why don't you just not use autopilot warp to zero if they implement it? Just because you really enjoy sitting and watching "Warp Drive Active" 15 times per day over the course of an hour doesn't mean everyone enjoys such a boring gameplay style.

Point 3) The entire purpose of ANY CHANGE LIKE THIS is to enhance the amount of FUN TIME that can be spent in EVE and reduce the amount of BORING WORK in EVE. If you ever wonder why so many people play and quit this game, it's because there's an awful lot of boring work you have to do in order to get access to the fun stuff. Minor cutbacks to that boring part (warping through hi-sec for a couple hours a day) allow people to get at the fun part more readily (trade 1 hour of those 2 hours of travel directly for PVP). This means more ships and modules blown up, more market activity, more PVP, and more fun for everyone from the lowly miner to the powerhouse market guy all the way out to the 0.0 guy. Think of the positive cascade effects of changes that liven up the game, rather than being resistant to change to a fault, eh?


Praleon
CEO
Judgement Klan Corporation
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 08:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8496289 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Straight Chillen]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#235 ]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 04:56:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8495671 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#234 Edited by: Hesod Adee on 09/08/2008 01:46:56
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Quote:
So your only objection to WTZ AP is that, if it gets implemented, people will be wanting other changes later on ? I don't know about other people, but I won't be asking for travel times any quicker than WTZ. I only want the WTZ AP because current travel is so boring. Why not just implement WTZ AP then argue against the other changes then ? Also a warp to -x km could be an interesting tactical move. Not much use for travel though.


You don't seem to get it. Give people a finger, they take your hand. Give them your hand, they take your arm. And so on and so on. This is also why I'm heavily against a skill queue, because it will do eve no good now, and in the future.


The slippery slope fallacy does not make a good argument.
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 01:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8495175 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Danton Marcellus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#233
Sometimes ideas in here sound like nothing more than creative trolling. Neutral





Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!

Also Known As]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 01:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8495030 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Jerid Verges]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#232
That and any speed modules you have deactivate after every warp.

The distance should at least be lessened. If only a bit.
]]> Sat, 9 Aug 2009 00:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8494899 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Taram Caldar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#231 good god people if you want to AFK travel faster then fit overdrives in your lows and deal. If you want to travel FASTER then sit at the damn PC and do it yourself. Lazy people scare me.
.

]]> Fri, 8 Aug 2009 23:30:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8494627 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Grarr Dexx]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#230 Quote:
So your only objection to WTZ AP is that, if it gets implemented, people will be wanting other changes later on ? I don't know about other people, but I won't be asking for travel times any quicker than WTZ. I only want the WTZ AP because current travel is so boring. Why not just implement WTZ AP then argue against the other changes then ? Also a warp to -x km could be an interesting tactical move. Not much use for travel though.


You don't seem to get it. Give people a finger, they take your hand. Give them your hand, they take your arm. And so on and so on. This is also why I'm heavily against a skill queue, because it will do eve no good now, and in the future.

]]> Fri, 8 Aug 2009 22:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8494412 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Destructor1792]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#229
IMO the worst move they ever did was bring in warp to zero as that really helped reduced the lag by removing the need for so many bm'sRolling Eyes Oh wait, it didnt ShockedLaughing

I sugget that the AP range be increased from 15km to 30km for all the lazy gits out there Twisted Evil
______________________________________


Bringing The Fun Back

I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.]]> Fri, 8 Aug 2009 22:36:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8494411 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Freezehunter]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#228 Originally by: Taedrin
Warp-to-0, instas, and you...

There once was a time when there was no warp-to-0. This was a horrible time where people were forced to warp within 15 kilometers of a gate and fly within 2.5km of the gate before jumping and to start the process anew. This was the dark ages of pirates, where pilots were actually vulnerable when travelling. Pilots were unjustly forced to use higher-brain functions by looking at the map and plotting a safe course around potential gate camps. Pilots who lacked such higher-brain functions were left to die miserably to the gate camps.

One day, such a pilot suddenly had a stroke of uncharacteristic genius! In his frequently travelled systems, he could create bookmarks approximately 12-15km from the gate such that when he warped from one gate to the bookmark, he would land directly on top of it! Thus instas, and the great bookmark revolution began. Everyone began creating instas for their favorite systems. It was soon discovered that as the number of gates increased in a system, the number of instas that you need to complete the "set", so to speak, grew exponentially. Soon, an entire market sprang up out of nowhere, based upon the sale of large areas of instas!

This is when the glorious instas showed their dark side. With so many millions upon millions of instas in existence they slowly gave birth to a demon of pure lag. Tales are told of pilots who accidentally opened their people and places window and were forced to wait an eternity as the instas finished loading.

Meanwhile, people continued to use instas, and they became a integral part of EVE. Entire alliances kept sets of bookmarks for the regions of space they occupied. Escrow was filled with advertisements selling thousands upon thousands of bookmarks. Pirates and carebears a like would not be caught anywhere near low sec or 0.0 without a full set of instas.

As the problems continued, TQ slowly grinded to a halt. It was then that CCP decided that something must be done! They asked players for ideas. It was then that 4 mighty factions on the Features and Ideas forum formed. The WTZ faction, the Nuke Instas faction, the Starmaps faction, and the corporate bookmarks faction. Each faction waged bitter forum war against each other, deciding that their solution to the insta problem was correct. In general, the pirates favored the Nuke Instas option, while carebears favored the WTZ option. Those in the middle favored Starmaps or corporate bookmarks. After a long bloody war that left no soul unscathed, CCP decided that instas had become too important to remove. On top of this, Starmaps and corporate bookmarks would require too much code, and/or would not yield enough decrease in lag (though I still of the fervant opinion that Starmaps would've been much cooler, and still to this day disagree with Maya on this point). It was then that Warp To 0km was championed by CCP. A great treaty was signed by all of the forum warriors that Warp To 0km on Autopilot was a pandoras box that if opened, would end all concepts of danger from low sec and 0.0. Thus CCP did not allow Autopilot to utilize WTZ. Thus as CCP introduced WTZ, The Great Bookmark Massacre began, as millions upon millions of instas were mercilessly slaughtered.

And this brings us to today...


This is the most intelligent post i have seen in a freakin' million years...

Gratz for being smart, man!
]]> Fri, 8 Aug 2009 20:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8493706 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Praleon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#227
I am relatively certain that they violate the EULA, so, I wouldn't recommend even looking for one.

I'd say CCP is watching but macro-miners use the exact same programs... I'm a programmer, so, I know how it works... you get a macro software for controlling your mouse and keyboard, and simply record what you do in a process (macro-mining) or auto-warp-to-zero is probably using something to look for a yellow stargate in your overview and click on it...

It would be highly simple to do for me, and admittedly it is very, very tempting, but, I do not.

The reason I mention it here is because as the game stands now, without Auto-Warp to Zero, the game is right back in the same place it was before the addition of warp to zero... Instead of people with bookmark collections, now you have people with macro programs... and while the database side is cleaned up, from a player's standpoint, not having auto-warp to zero is detrimental...

Would it be against the rules for me to create a step-by-step of how to create your own macros and sell them for ISK? ;) I'm just saying... people probably do that too... actually, let me check e-bay...

A quick search of "EVE Macro" shows you a bunch of people selling mining bots, sometimes complete with warp to zero thrown in for free. So, this stuff isn't uncommon.

My actual opinion of AWTZ?

AWTZ should be enabled in high sec at the very least. The fact that 95% of the PVP in this game is gatecamp 9 vs. 1 is ******ed anyway, give players better ways to engage one another, and then, do away with the silly gate-camp crap, is what i say, and then Auto WTZ becomes moot.
Praleon
CEO
Judgement Klan Corporation
]]> Fri, 8 Aug 2009 19:44:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8493158 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Cyberman Mastermind]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#226 Originally by: BlondieBC
Hopefully never, makes macro too easy.

How so?
A macro doesn't care about the autopilot, it doesn't need it, it is already using the same methods that players do.]]> Tue, 5 Aug 2009 07:52:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8462077 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Wendat Huron]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#225







These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!]]> Tue, 5 Aug 2009 03:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8461175 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Re'taka]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#224 Originally by: BlondieBC
Hopefully never, makes macro too easy. I would like to see the warp in point for autopilot moved to 25 km from gate.


Have you suicided your hualer today? This would make it much easier, though I'm not 100% vs that Twisted Evil
]]> Mon, 4 Aug 2009 20:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8459027 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by BlondieBC]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#223 ]]> Mon, 4 Aug 2009 20:25:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8458906 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Re'taka]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#222 Originally by: Lyseas
OK, I understand the reasons for the autopilot thing to 10km, but my biggest problem is that this makes no sense.

In a role-playing game, you are playing a character that could exist in the universe described. The corollary is that the universe must support the characters playing in it. As there are merchants, and merchants like to make money, some enterprising young nobody would eventually "invent" a program for their navigational system that would allow an autopilot to warp directly to a gate. It's that simple. There is no way you can tell me that my characters live in a society where travel between star systems takes minutes as opposed to years, and nobody in this universe has a navigational computer capable of autopiloting to jump distance. That's not realistic at all.

Likewise, there are many annoying things that should be automatic, that aren't. If I was a "capsuleer" with access to all this high-tech equipment, I'd be seriously PO'd that the software did not support my uber cool hardware.

My suggestion is to make the navigational computer upgradeable, either via skill set or as a low component on the ship. Make it expensive, but worth it to travelers who regularly go through low-sec systems. If you're looking for lawlessness balance, create new skills/ equipment (also expensive) that disrupt warp bubbles within a limited range to let the pirate have a shot at them. As tech improves, new ways to evade pirates should exist, as well as new ways for pirates to still make a buck.


I agree you are a noob, like it or not this is a game, and balance matters more then rp, even if this is an rpg.

Keeping that in mind, manual piloting you can land ontop of a gate because you yourself control the ship and can react and correct the ships course to the gate, autopilot lands you at 15km to make sure it doesn't hit, the gate or ships, etc, there is your cheap RP reason. Don't like it, well sry, thats just tuff, you will have to live with it.
]]> Mon, 4 Aug 2009 20:03:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8458701 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Syberbolt8]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#221 Originally by: Taedrin
Warp-to-0, instas, and you...

And this brings us to today...


Lol, I have seen this very story at least 5 times now over the past year or 2, what did you save this in text doc "call cookie cutter answers for noobs that post the same thing 4billion times"?

Still a very nice story, and true.

]]> Mon, 4 Aug 2009 19:58:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8458700 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Lyseas]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#220
In a role-playing game, you are playing a character that could exist in the universe described. The corollary is that the universe must support the characters playing in it. As there are merchants, and merchants like to make money, some enterprising young nobody would eventually "invent" a program for their navigational system that would allow an autopilot to warp directly to a gate. It's that simple. There is no way you can tell me that my characters live in a society where travel between star systems takes minutes as opposed to years, and nobody in this universe has a navigational computer capable of autopiloting to jump distance. That's not realistic at all.

Likewise, there are many annoying things that should be automatic, that aren't. If I was a "capsuleer" with access to all this high-tech equipment, I'd be seriously PO'd that the software did not support my uber cool hardware.

My suggestion is to make the navigational computer upgradeable, either via skill set or as a low component on the ship. Make it expensive, but worth it to travelers who regularly go through low-sec systems. If you're looking for lawlessness balance, create new skills/ equipment (also expensive) that disrupt warp bubbles within a limited range to let the pirate have a shot at them. As tech improves, new ways to evade pirates should exist, as well as new ways for pirates to still make a buck.

Yeah, I'm a noob. What about it?]]> Mon, 4 Aug 2009 19:06:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8458304 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Patri Andari]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#219 YARRRR!!

Patri
]]> Mon, 2 Jun 2009 16:25:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8028044 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by procurement specialist]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#218 ]]> Mon, 2 Jun 2009 16:06:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8027880 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Norjia Blacksteel]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#217 ----
Norjia Blacksteel
CEO
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing]]> Mon, 2 Jun 2009 15:55:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/8027879 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#216 Originally by: Xiu Dan
Autopilot warp to 0!?! Kids these days are never satisfied. They finally get a warp to 0 button and now they want it to be 100% automated.

Soon they will complain that warps take too long, their ships are too slow and they'll be wondering why they aren't moving fast in their hauler.

Before you know it, they'll be spamming these forums for a warp to negative 15 km.


So your only objection to WTZ AP is that, if it gets implemented, people will be wanting other changes later on ?
I don't know about other people, but I won't be asking for travel times any quicker than WTZ. I only want the WTZ AP because current travel is so boring.

Why not just implement WTZ AP then argue against the other changes then ?

Also a warp to -x km could be an interesting tactical move. Not much use for travel though.

Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
Here's an in-game, roleplay, fiction-based reason why you cannot warp to at 0 using your autopilot.

When not focused or concentrating, the autopilot takes over basic navigation. To ensure the safety of the crew all warp-ins are conducted at between ten and fifteen kilometers.
Without a pilot at the helm, it would be far far too easy for a navigation computer to get too close to an object with it's warp-bubble still instact. This could cause a breach or even an outright collision.

Some capsuleers have argued that more R&D needs to be put into "getting a warp to at 0" autopilot, but despite billion-ISK investments, no company have yet to release a viable mainstream product for general consumption.


I see your yet another person who assumes that the human pilot is somehow more competent at FTL navigation that the navicomputer without attempting to justify it at all.

I snipped your history of the Eve travel options because it doesn't explain why they gave us WTZ when removing instas.
]]> Wed, 7 May 2009 09:39:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7871862 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Xiu Dan]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#215
Soon they will complain that warps take too long, their ships are too slow and they'll be wondering why they aren't moving fast in their hauler.

Before you know it, they'll be spamming these forums for a warp to negative 15 km.]]> Tue, 6 May 2009 13:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7866872 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Schani Kratnorr]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#214
Anywho. first there was no autopilot, no long warps, no "highways", no smuggler gates, and no people... anywhere.

People started making bookmarks. One or more for each gate, allowing them to warp to a point just behind the gate, to end up right on top if it.
These bookmarks became known as insta-jump-bookmarks, or just "instas".

In the language of the new "sub class" of capsuleers:
Having instas = win
Not having instas = fail

Only problem was that you needed thousands of bookmarks which took forever to copy, and (I heard) put undue pressure on the server hamsters.

On one hand CCP wanted space to be enjoyable. They wanted EVE large and majestic, with pilots slowly moving towards their destinations. Visibly this notion of EVE was appealing, but people found a way around it.

On one hand CCP wanted the instas gone. Partly due to database load and performance, partly because they quickly became a "must have" anyway.

CCP decided to allow warp to at 0 km. and removed all instas from all characters (well almost).

Here's an in-game, roleplay, fiction-based reason why you cannot warp to at 0 using your autopilot.

When not focused or concentrating, the autopilot takes over basic navigation. To ensure the safety of the crew all warp-ins are conducted at between ten and fifteen kilometers.
Without a pilot at the helm, it would be far far too easy for a navigation computer to get too close to an object with it's warp-bubble still instact. This could cause a breach or even an outright collision.

Some capsuleers have argued that more R&D needs to be put into "getting a warp to at 0" autopilot, but despite billion-ISK investments, no company have yet to release a viable mainstream product for general consumption.]]> Tue, 6 May 2009 11:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7866153 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Captain Moiraine]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#213 ]]> Tue, 6 May 2009 10:14:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7865628 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Lusulpher]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#212 Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Tom Deal
Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation?

Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms?

Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what?

Something does not fit Question

TD


Never. Ever.


Autopilot to 10km is needed, that should give gankers a chance at grabbing stupid folk, if they come with some dps/webbers...

Autopilot needs updating anyway, I see "add waypoint" option but I can't add Planets/Moons and station docking to my AP routes(from Show Info window)...tsk tsk CCP. Raising my hopes.ugh
Live and Let Die...All of it...
null
]]> Tue, 6 May 2009 04:17:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7864662 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Bellum Eternus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=8#211 Originally by: Tom Deal
Is this the time of space travel traveling? Cloning? Brain augmentation?

Why autopilots still warping within 15 kms?

Is 0 km Autopilot technology arriving soon or what?

Something does not fit Question

TD


Never. Ever.
Bellum Eternus

[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail mods@ccpgames.com - Mitnal]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2009 02:37:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7864661 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#210 Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Valandril
They gave ppl a finger and ppl want whole hand :|
I believe there are numerous caves now available since the last Ice Age. Please feel free to go live in one. The above will never be a good counter-argument to improvements and progress.
Except that AP to zero would be neither an improvement, nor progress.
Well, progress in lazy and effortless gaming perhaps.


The only effort I see with the current system is the effort to avoid bordem while travelling.
]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2009 00:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7792513 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#209 Quote:
How exactly will WTZ AP let you stay entertained?
For me 'entertained elsewhere' means AFK.
How can a game you're not actively playing affect your level of entertainment, at all?


It lets us stay entertained because we don't need to come back every minute or so just to hit 3 commands that are identical every time (excluding gatecamps where the AP will make things worse). So we have longer uninterrupted stretches at whatever else we are doing.

Quote:
The reason some people want WTZ AP is long travel times.
But other players are already complaining that the EVE universe feels too small.
Kind contradicting, isn't it?

Yes, my arguments do contradict those of people calling Eve too small. So there is a difference of opinion here. So what ?
]]> Tue, 22 Apr 2009 00:45:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7792512 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Tarron Sarek]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#208 Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Why are you bumping this flamefest? It's never going to happen, it's an unwanted feature. If you're AFK you don't deserve a smooth trip, simple as that.
Agreed.

Oh, and as for the most popular argument:
Quote:
The WTZ AP will let us stay entertained elsewhere without increasing how long we spend traveling.
How exactly will WTZ AP let you stay entertained?
For me 'entertained elsewhere' means AFK.
How can a game you're not actively playing affect your level of entertainment, at all?

The reason some people want WTZ AP is long travel times.
But other players are already complaining that the EVE universe feels too small.
Kind contradicting, isn't it?

Try to live with the fact that travelling longer distances takes some time.
If you want to reduce the time, fly manually.
The devs provided you with the tools.
It's your decision.

___________________________________

Balance is power, guard hide it well

-Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam-

('nerf' means 'incompetence', esp. when you use it)]]> Mon, 21 Apr 2009 16:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7789861 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Danton Marcellus]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#207


Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!

Also Known As]]> Mon, 21 Apr 2009 15:50:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7789736 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Tarron Sarek]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#206 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Valandril
They gave ppl a finger and ppl want whole hand :|
I believe there are numerous caves now available since the last Ice Age. Please feel free to go live in one. The above will never be a good counter-argument to improvements and progress.
Except that AP to zero would be neither an improvement, nor progress.
Well, progress in lazy and effortless gaming perhaps.

___________________________________

Balance is power, guard hide it well

-Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam-

('nerf' means 'incompetence', esp. when you use it)]]> Mon, 21 Apr 2009 15:43:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7789659 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Valeri Greon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#205
--
Anything is possible.
Right-click is your friend.]]> Mon, 21 Apr 2009 15:21:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7789560 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#204 Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Hesod Adee
We play games to avoid bordem. Manual warp travel in Eve is boring unless you hit a gatecamp (where the AP will fail). The WTZ AP will let us stay entertained elsewhere without increasing how long we spend traveling.


And if everyone is doing this - who in fact is actually 'playing' EVE?


The people who have reached their destination and have started whatever they went there to do.

Quote:
Really - consider what you're suggesting: Hundreds if not thousands of players not at their PCs but watching tele, down the pub, asleep. Corp chat channels deathly silent, trade channels mute, local chat a vacuum.


How many of those players would be saying much anyway ?

How many of those AFK players already spend long periods AFK on autopilot ? (these players would spend less time AFK with a WTZ AP because it takes less time to get where they are going)

I'm expecting the majority of WTZ AP users to be players who turn it on for less than 10 jumps and go AFK for a short while (toilet break, quick bite to eat, etc). But the things the perform while AFK take a bit too long to do between jumps. I doubt it would effect the chat much.
]]> Sat, 12 Apr 2009 03:28:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7738991 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Cailais]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#203 Originally by: Hesod Adee
We play games to avoid bordem. Manual warp travel in Eve is boring unless you hit a gatecamp (where the AP will fail). The WTZ AP will let us stay entertained elsewhere without increasing how long we spend traveling.


And if everyone is doing this - who in fact is actually 'playing' EVE?

Really - consider what you're suggesting: Hundreds if not thousands of players not at their PCs but watching tele, down the pub, asleep. Corp chat channels deathly silent, trade channels mute, local chat a vacuum.

C.




New Scanner Idea!
]]> Sat, 12 Apr 2009 03:13:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7738958 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#202 Originally by: Zartach Tzarszh
WTZ is as statted not something intended but was implemented as a replacement of an exploitive way of game mechanics where effort is rewarded with faster travel time.


One which gave everyone the ability that the exploiters were using, instead of just putting everyone back to what they had before the exploit was found.

Quote:
CCP have stated numerous times they were not happy with this solution and have tried to revert it to a random range even numerous times. But it created too much problems so they left it as warp to 0.


Unless you can provide links to where CCP said they tried this, I won't believe you. Even if randomisation isn't possible, it doesn't seem like it would of been difficult to prevent instas without giving us WTZ. Just delete all BMs that are close to gates (which they did with WTZ) and prevent new ones being created that close.

Quote:
In this :effort: pwns :lazy: sa AP will make you slowboat. If you dont want to manual navigate 30 jumps then review what you are doing. I have set up my activities so that i can be everywhere i want to be within 10 jumps from my base location. For deep 0.0 i generaly sit either in a capship jumping in and out or use jumpcloes and inside base there its basicly the same range for all the activities i have to do.


So how would a trader set things up so that can have short enough trips to manually warp ?

And how can a long distance hauler compete with a macro hauler, when the macros would have WTZ built in, but the legit player either must put up with serious bordem or a longer travelling time ?
]]> Sat, 12 Apr 2009 03:12:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7738957 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Zartach Tzarszh]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#201
CCP have stated numerous times they were not happy with this solution and have tried to revert it to a random range even numerous times. But it created too much problems so they left it as warp to 0.

In this :effort: pwns :lazy: sa AP will make you slowboat. If you dont want to manual navigate 30 jumps then review what you are doing. I have set up my activities so that i can be everywhere i want to be within 10 jumps from my base location. For deep 0.0 i generaly sit either in a capship jumping in and out or use jumpcloes and inside base there its basicly the same range for all the activities i have to do.

Except find targets -_-

I know Jita is a nice market, but its not the only one and afk trading from jita to some local hub should not become more easy as it is now.


]]> Sat, 12 Apr 2009 02:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7738856 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Valeri Greon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#200
--
Anything is possible.
Right-click is your friend.]]> Fri, 11 Apr 2009 21:16:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7737928 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#199 Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
In-character: cuz it's dangerous to have autopilots movings thips at trans-light velocities that close to very important, very expensive, and very fragile warp gates.

So instead of letting the computer handle the math required to say exactly how long the warp drive should run, they instead leave the calculations to be handled by an organic brain. Even when computers are much faster at the calculations, much easier to train once you have worked out the equations that the organic brain, much less prone to errors, and not vulnerable to things like bordem from doing the same non-challenging task over and over.

So what advantages does the organic brain have to make up for all this ?

Quote:
Out-of-character: there has to be some risk to running around afk. You are paying to play a game. If you want to bot/macro your way, WoW is that way-->

We play games to avoid bordem. Manual warp travel in Eve is boring unless you hit a gatecamp (where the AP will fail). The WTZ AP will let us stay entertained elsewhere without increasing how long we spend traveling.
]]> Fri, 4 Apr 2009 21:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/7701868 <![CDATA[When 0 km Autopilot ??? - by Hesod Adee]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=475808&page=7#198 Originally by: Retribution RagnaRRRR
NO

It would turn EvE into a dead whastland where most of the charactors wore just offline or AFK making money. Thats not how the game works.

How would it do this when the means of making money are found at the ends of the trips people would be APing ?
Quote:
And another thing, autopilote warp to 0 will benefit people like those with many accounts fare more then the people with just one account, as they can cover more space. It will make EvE much smaller to have warp to 0 as a autopilote option.

Yes, multiple account players will get more of an advantage here. But only for the times they have one account travelling at least 2 jumps and the other doing something that requires a lot of attention. So what would they be doing here ?

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
AP WTZ would be the absolute destruction of all creative gameplay.

How is clicking warp to, then set as first waypoint, then turning on the autopilot "creative gameplay" ?
Quote:
CCP does not reward laziness. Autopilot is a way of giving your ship control so you can do other things such as have an important corporation meeting or manage your wallet, all of which are very in-depth things that require 100% attention. Autopilot allows you to do these things, but at that cost, you cannot warp to 0 and jump immediately.

How long do those things take ?

And the WTZ AP would still help there beca