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Wreck Testing - by Sentar Manar

Mon, 4 Dec 2009 18:46:00 +0000

Well I read the patch notes. They are putting in an option to let us know where we have been but there is no looted/unlooted change. The lower skill Reqs make it easier to be able to salvage however its still a long and unpleasent chore...

Wreck Testing - by Mik Nostrebor

Mon, 4 Dec 2009 05:47:00 +0000

Announced and in the patch notes the skill requirements for salvage have dropped from Mech 5 and Survey 5 to mech 3 and survey 3

Making the mini profession much more available and achievable.

In some ways I think it should be 4 and 4 just to put it a little way off for people. LOL

M

Wreck Testing - by Di Jiensai

Fri, 1 Dec 2009 11:36:00 +0000

Edited by: Di Jiensai on 01/12/2006 11:37:17

Originally by: HooFlungDung
Edited by: HooFlungDung on 01/12/2006 10:05:25
Edited by: HooFlungDung on 01/12/2006 10:01:23
The reason why there is so many topics e.g. "Wrecks are C R A P" is because the loot system is ruined at the moment.

If CCP implement something which is 95% a waste of time and breaks the "practicality/fun" of something that worked before then they deserve to recieve criticism. That's what forums are for - people voice their opinions.

If there a lot of posts saying something like this it more than likely means that the majority of people's opinions playing the game think that the loot system is now "broken". If you disagree, then sorry, but you are in the minority.

And yes The loot/wreck system is F U B A R and a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME ATM.

The point is not that it needs fixing, but that THE FIX IS ALLREADY ANNOUNCED.

so, 90% of these posts are completly redundant, and should be considered spamming.

[edit: Yes i said i wouldnt read the forums for 2 weeks. i lied.]
---
The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix
Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues

Wreck Testing - by HooFlungDung

Fri, 1 Dec 2009 09:58:00 +0000

Edited by: HooFlungDung on 01/12/2006 10:05:25
Edited by: HooFlungDung on 01/12/2006 10:01:23
The reason why there is so many topics e.g. "Wrecks are C R A P" is because the loot system is ruined at the moment.

If CCP implement something which is 95% a waste of time and breaks the "practicality/fun" of something that worked before then they deserve to recieve criticism. That's what forums are for - people voice their opinions.

If there a lot of posts saying something like this it more than likely means that the majority of people's opinions playing the game think that the loot system is now "broken". If you disagree, then sorry, but you are in the minority.

And yes The loot/wreck system is F U B A R and a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME ATM.

simple - FIX IT CCP OR YOU WILL LOSE CUSTOMERS BECAUSE OF IT.

What I think is amusing is that CCP introduce an 800K+ SP start for new characters to attract more new players, but then screw up the loot system and make it 500% longer and harder to loot their missions just to scare them off.....

Wreck Testing - by Di Jiensai

Fri, 1 Dec 2009 09:25:00 +0000

Originally by: Talani Allure
i have 2 questions. Where do you get salvage modules and why dont I have a picture?

you get salvage modules in the market, called "Salvager I" and you dont have a picture, because, well i dont know why, but i heared someone at CCP will be fired, if we dont have pics until christmas

on a Diffrent note:
Mercenarys, rogue drones, and faction navy ships leave broken wrecks wich dont yield materials when salvaged.

And I will stopp reading forums now for 2 weeks, because if i read one more "OMG!!!11! WRECKS ARE CRAP!!!" post i will get a shotgun and clean up humanitys gene pool a bit. I realy dont know how you CCP guys can stand that.

---
The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix
Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues

Wreck Testing - by Talani Allure

Fri, 1 Dec 2009 09:11:00 +0000

i have 2 questions. Where do you get salvage modules and why dont I have a picture?

Wreck Testing - by Senyn

Thu, 30 Nov 2009 20:53:00 +0000

Edited by: Senyn on 30/11/2006 20:54:30
Thanks a lot to CCP for this new feature: wreckage, salvaging, and removing the can system from the game. Thanks a lot
I am playing eve now since 14 months, the last 10 or 12 weeks very much, too much, since I have a lot of private work and this work suffered from playing so much EVE.
Now things are going to change. With this piece of bullsh*t programmed into the game I am just thinking not only of reducing playing time but even to quit my abo for EVE.
The reasons were already told in the posts before. Again for confirmation: as a mission runner and as such not only living from the bounty but also from the loot, this game is not playable anymore (running missions). Dozens of wrecks, in some missions even two or three wrecks of 40 have a loot, flying from wreck tot wreck just to seee that many of them are empty, NOPE!!
You even cannot beginn looting during fight as I did it before. I can keep track of 6 targets, with a Mega I have 8 weapons. But when fighting and looting, I can only target 5 enemies instead of 6 cause I need one free target slot for targeting the ship wreck I have recently looted. Huh, this is ******
Same with weapons. I can't use all weapons while fighting cause I need at least on or two quiet for blowing up the wreck after looking into it. Huuuh, this is ******
Yes, I can also wait until all ships have popped and only then begin to loot. LOL, do this in an Extravaganza. It is even not possible without the double or triple time (ore more) you need for killing the ships, when waiting with looting until the level is emptied from rats. Huuuh, this is ******

I am playing computer games for about 20 years, and I have played many thousands of hours (I am a liar, it were much much more ) an I agree, I understand the idea behind salvaging, but this new feature is ********. Can't remember that I have seen such an aggravation before in a game.

So maybe goodbye for ever .....

Wreck Testing - by Lisena Agardis

Thu, 30 Nov 2009 17:07:00 +0000

Hm i like the wreckage and salvaging mode... it's only half a month to learn and now you can get even more loot :)
and if your neighbours agree, you can harvest their victims too :)

Wreck Testing - by Schwaxpl

Thu, 30 Nov 2009 16:58:00 +0000

yes , please fix that , since revelation , i just did one mission and when i saw the wreck system ...
it's like we're forced to train salvage skill ( wich is called "mini profession" , not "vital profession for looters" ), please make a system so that we don't have to destroy wrecks , maybe by keeping the loot cans separates from the wrecks , that would be the best idea imo , salvager could salvage and looters could still take their loot in cans , the can system was perfect imo , the wreck system is a regression , i'd not be surprised if peoples leave the game because of that

Wreck Testing - by Probita

Thu, 30 Nov 2009 16:31:00 +0000

Yeahh ... awfull system.
I completes a lev3 mission in about 15 minutes, but taked me 25 minutes to check all and every single wreck left behind ... I didn't wanted to try another mission after that ... It's a waste of time. And that were a simple mission. A Gurista Extravaganza will be 2 hours to complete ... 4 hours to loot ... no no noooo.

Wreck Testing - by Ares Nightshade

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 23:52:00 +0000

If Salvaging is supposed to be a mini profession then why is it that every mission runner is now forced to deal with every wreck?

Couldn't we at least have the old can system back and just create wrecks aswell that non salvagers could ignore? When a mission item is dropped like marines or VIPs it is dropped in a can that pops when empty.

Let's go back to putting normal loot in cans that pop when empty and leave the wrecks to be dealt with by those who want to salvage. Just imagine how cumbersome this is on new players who would take 5 minutes to shoot down a wreck of a ship they already killed just to know that it was empty so they don't search it again.

At the VERY LEAST make wrecks taggable so that those using ammo don't have to waste isk just keeping track of what has been searched! This needs to be high priority to the devs or there will be alot of unhappy new players out there. I am among those right now.

Wreck Testing - by SoulTornado

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 23:32:00 +0000

Hello.

I really need to yell and scream at someone, the wreck system is horrible.
Spent 10 minutes completing the mission objectives and thirty minutes running through the wrecks and blowing them up! It's stupid and a downgrade from the previous system ...

Color code wrecks : EMPTY or WITH CONTENT
Option to remove empty wrecks from overview!!!

Gawd this is stupid , really!

Have a good day now, for this shure made my day... well WEEK, god nows when youll fix it!

Wreck Testing - by Mik Nostrebor

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 23:11:00 +0000

Edited by: Mik Nostrebor on 29/11/2006 23:27:40
OK so this will come across as a whine but...

If the purpose of wrecks was to extend missions so that they took longer then they are a success. The problem I have is that the processing of wrecks for loot is very very repetative. Lock, tractor, open, loot (if any), unlock, destroy.. and repeat. Unlike before wrecks when ships only dropped cans when there was loot, this new system drops 2-4 times then number of objects.

I found that after 3 simple Level 3 missions My wrists and hands were becoming very fatigued and sore. I was taking breaks, getting up and moving around etc, but still had problems. I know I had some problems before with loot processing but now it is worse. Before it was 5 clicks per can now it it 8 clicks per wreck.

This means in a mission before where there were 10 ships, 4 of which dropped a can I would be clicking 20 times. Now I have to click 32 times for the ones with loot and a further 42 times for the ones that are empty. So the RSI click factor has gone from 20 to 74! That is nearly 4 times!

The sad truth of the matter is that I may not be able to physically continue to keep doing this. I already use wrist supports, breaks, changes in seating position and a bunch of other tactics to combat RSI.

So I guess, I might be forced to be a miner. Oh joy...

Mik

Wreck Testing - by Amira Silvermist

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 22:50:00 +0000

I think that Mission and Deadspace NPCs have a very low component drop rate and hope the same is true for the standard belt rats.

Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0%

Wreck Testing - by Akita T

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 19:57:00 +0000

I've just completed L3 "Illegal Activity 1/3" for Motsu Ititeimo (Oimmo), and (with a Salvager I fitted, Salvaging skill at L1) proceeded to (slowly) salvage each and every wreck in the mission (including the Gallente Miners).

Ok, it took a while, as I only had a 10% chance to salvage per activation and there are quite a few ships in that mission (many support frigs, several Gallente Officer, Gallente Navy Thorax x2, etc). So far, all I got is this...
Most of the time (9/10): "2006.11.29 19:xx:xx Notify Your salvaging attempt failed this time."
Rarely (then wreck gone): "2006.11.29 19:xx:xx Notify You successfully salvage from the Wreck. Unfortunately there was nothing to be salvaged."

So... is salvage really bugged, or is it just the "salvage tables" on the navy wrecks ?
Didn't get a chance to test on anything else yet.
Anybody got even a SINGLE component out of salvaging so far ? If yes, what/how/where ?
_____
-sig-

This is my only char. These are my skills

Always question everything, including yourself

Wreck Testing - by Megadon

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 17:38:00 +0000

Well the deal is that because every ship USED to drop tons of tech 1 mods, the tech 1 market was in the toilet.

Sooooo, now they don't drop tons of mods which actually is a boost to those that spent billions in BPO's and research to build tech 1 items so the economy for tech 1 got a huge boost by this.

The flip side of the coin is that if you train up to salvage wrecks properly, you can supply the rarer materials that are required to build rigs which will help offset your loss of income from what used to be npc's dropping tons of tech 1 gear.

This is actually a good thing.

So now there is a bit of strategy to looting and npc'ing for isk and it brings a whole new profession to the game.

Exploration and Salvaging.

So that is the big picture and I think it's a long over due improvement.

Your welcome

Wreck Testing - by Commander Nemesid

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 16:48:00 +0000

Im playing about month and im mission runner. Only income of money is from bounty,rewards and CARGO. I picked every cargo before patch but now its HORRIBLE. About 60-80% of NPC ships doesnt drop cargo. They now all drop wreck and its EMPTY. I dont have nerves to search all empty wreck so my income is going to hell.

Sorry, pls make ships to drop wreck AND cargo. YES, both items. So i can turn off wrecks from overwiev.

Wreck Testing - by Dackar Naviner

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 15:54:00 +0000

These wrecks are awful to some one who makes money the way I do. I rat Belts and run missions. I make most of my money from Mods and things I find in the cans or the new wrecks. I have run through it in my head and the past several missions and Belt runs have been very lean. 4 Mods from the "Unothorized Military Presence". You know that mission has a lot of rats. Its hard to tell between Wrecks I have checked or not but I just blow them when I am done with them. The odd thing is there is much less loot than there used to be. Normaly I could come away from "Unotherised Mitary Presens" with 14-20 Mods of different values.

So is it just me or has the loot ratio gone in the pit? Also the normal problem of wrecks being a waste of ammo and time to destroy. Every Ship I destroy leaves a wreck. Unless I destroy the wreck in the Belts It will quickly clutter up with empty Wrecks. As you can imagine thats is a lag causing messy nightmare. Its a great Idea but this one really need some work unto the point of sending it back to the test server.

Wreck Testing - by Shar Tegral

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 11:30:00 +0000

Originally by: Ares Nightshade
As a new player as of about four weeks ago I must say the wrecks setup as it stands now is horrible.

I like the arguments you present. However it should be pointed out that it wouldn't take months to train up this skill however it is a serious diversion for any player under 6 months to focus on. And I mean it is a massive diversion... like a profession. But then that is what it is designed to be.

Salvaging itself is a branch out of the COSMOS mini-professions that was not new player friendly either. This was understandable as much of COSMOS was geared to veteran activity. New players could partake but would have to tap the shoulders of veterans to accomplish things. Truly one of the few adhoc teamwork areas of the game.

Wrecks/Salvaging however is not as isolated as the COSMOS activities were. This is making the problem massively pronounced. And thus, lessons believed to have been learned from the COSMOS experiment are proving to have more problems with it than might have been expected.

Also, currently it appears that wrecks will disappear within about one hour. So leaving your cans will not create lingering works of chaotic can art.

Ganging up with someone can provide an invaluable tool for wreckage sorting. We've been doing the non-fleet gang and our loot guy just tags the cans he's "cleaned" as he goes along. The rest of us then tractor any tagged cans and salvage as we go along. (Those of us with the gear and skill)

This is making for a situation for a specific role within a group of people, can cleaner, even more important. But I expect others will adapt like we have, we don't play this game as a mostly single player instance, but we all agree... the process has needed some additional levels of depth and adjustment.

The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.

Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D

Wreck Testing - by Kouran Darkblade

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 11:05:00 +0000

There realy does need to be a way of identifiying looted wrecks, t2 ammo is hard to come by in 0.0 and i'll be ****ed if im wasting it blowing up wrecks.

Wreck Testing - by Funbit

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 10:28:00 +0000

Signed.
_______
You never truly understand something until you can explain it to your grandmother. Albert Einstein

Wreck Testing - by Ares Nightshade

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 08:41:00 +0000

As a new player as of about four weeks ago I must say the wrecks setup as it stands now is horrible. I have been running missions and collecting loot and selling it to earn money. Now when I'm picking up loot i have to shoot down every wreck to keep track of ehat I've looted. As I understand it, it would take me months to train the skills to make the wrecks be of any use to me besides a waste of ammo and time. There MUST be some kind of flag to say whether a wreck has been looted or not. I don't really care about empty ones, but I don't feel it's right for me to have to shoot down ships twice just to know what I've checked for loot. I understand the reason for them, and have no problem with that, but how is a new payer going to figure that all out without seeing the old can system? This is honestly bad enough that i may cancel my subscription till it's fixed. It's completely unfriendly to everyone but salvagers. Since Salvaging takes alot of time to train and is certainly not a newbie friendly profession, everyone who is just starting and can't sort through thier loot is just going to get fed up and leave. PLEASE FIX THIS ASAP!!!

Wreck Testing - by Shar Tegral

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 06:17:00 +0000

Originally by: Rivur'Tam
Looting now is just a tedious chore.

Is this your experience or a summary of what everyone before you has been saying? Becuase while I'm sure you may think you've laid upon us enlightenment at best you've only just come along a day late and a dollar short.

Nothing wrong with an opinion mate... just read the thread before you lay your thang down. Then you can add something or just /signed and move along.

PS: I expect this thread to start coming alive. The whinage might be overwhelming though.

The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.

Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D

Wreck Testing - by Rivur'Tam

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 05:51:00 +0000

Looting now is just a tedious chore.

1) There is no way to tell from the overview what's been previously looted without wasting the ammo to destroy the wreck.
2) You're forced to loot/jet just to be able to salvage.
3) Wrecks cloud the overview, even when you'd rather not bother.
4) When looting, you now have an extra click to close the loot window.

For the love of all things holy, add a 'loot all/close window' button to the lootable portion of the wreck. Make the lootable wrecks (not looted, not salvaged) a seperate option on the overview from salvagable wrecks (looted, not salvaged). Large missions are just so tedious now, it's hardly playable.

Wreck Testing - by Havok Pierce

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 05:28:00 +0000

Originally by: Skarraza
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord
It would be great if they could also cut down on the number of clicks. A shortcut for "drag everything to my cargo" would be awesome.

CTRL+A (select everything in the window) helps somewhat.

Wreck Testing - by Havok Pierce

Wed, 29 Nov 2009 05:28:00 +0000

Originally by: Skarraza
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord
It would be great if they could also cut down on the number of clicks. A shortcut for "drag everything to my cargo" would be awesome.

CTRL+A (select everything in the window) helps somewhat.

Wreck Testing - by Crystalyne

Mon, 27 Nov 2009 22:12:00 +0000

OK .. tried this as well .. frankly not that big of a deal. This is similar to Hacking or Archeology in COSMOS missions. At least here you can blow up the rig after looting/salvaging so it won't clutter the interface. Frankly, when I rat .. I mark BS and named rat cans and blow up the rest to get them out of the way. In missions .. I loot everything anyway - cuz I use the mins to build ammo and ships. An extra 10 minutes in cleanup per mission level if I want the salvageable components is not going to be big.

As for rig component rarity... not a big deal ... ever try to build a COSMOS BPC? These take rare components too and they should be rare to have. Rigs should NOT be for everyday ship attachments. These are premium items that should require work.

As for Skills needed. Noobs don't need to worry. There is a new profession template that will give them everything you need to run the salvager (or at least get you very close) .. yes the other topic of starting SP. So this should not be an issue for Noobs. Bigger issue for veterans that didn't train survey up .. but that's no biggie it's only a 5 day cycle.

Just my thoughts

Wreck Testing - by Saria Mysdrial

Sun, 26 Nov 2009 18:52:00 +0000

Originally by: Arbenowskee
why do i have to empty the wreck before i can salvage it?

why just not get a warning that items still inside will be destroyed if i proceed with salvage?

To prevent griefing. Since salvaging doesn't do flagging the way can looting does. If you could salvage w/o emptying the wreck first, you could salvage someone elses wrecks (and destroy their loot) w/o their permission and they couldn't blow you up for it.

Sad, but true.

Wreck Testing - by Shar Tegral

Sat, 25 Nov 2009 23:01:00 +0000

Originally by: Arbenowskee
why do i have to empty the wreck before i can salvage it? why just not get a warning that items still inside will be destroyed if i proceed with salvage?

Why are questions never answered.

It just is.

Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.

Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D

Wreck Testing - by Arbenowskee

Sat, 25 Nov 2009 22:33:00 +0000

why do i have to empty the wreck before i can salvage it?

why just not get a warning that items still inside will be destroyed if i proceed with salvage?
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Sig too large. Maximum size 400x120 and 24000 bytes. -Oiri Yusko

Wreck Testing - by Shar Tegral

Fri, 24 Nov 2009 14:30:00 +0000

Originally by: Mor Vince
On another note, if I loot someone else's can I'm a thief and they (and thier corp) get temp. kill rights. Does this hold true for wrecks? Does salvaging a wreck give the temp kill rights?

Salvaging the wreck does not criminal flag you. However you must remember that emptying said wreck will. And most times I've tested salvaging on left behind wrecks the pilot left the loot as well.

For myself I was of the mind of trying to push the idea of non-looting activation of salvager. The requirment to have to empty the can, all the time, makes salvaging somewhat cumbersome in my opinion. I'd be happy to see that salvaging destroys the wreck, and any contained loot, when it is completed regardless of what was in the wreck.

I think it would lead to people being selective in the looting process, why have to carry all the loot if you don't want, as well as encourage salvaging over all. Currently I think there will be a wave of people trying it out (like they did when COSMOS first came out), getting frustrated with it, and declaring it a waste of time.

Of course I'm still leary of this idea as; Salvaging does not criminal flag a person so someone can go around griefing by destroying someone else's wrecks before they can loot it or salvage it.

Eve, the game played according to the lowest of ethics.

Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.

Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D

Wreck Testing - by Keitaro Baka

Fri, 24 Nov 2009 09:55:00 +0000

I have tested a few wrecks before, but I haven't checked wrecks from ships with rigs installed.. has anyone tried this already? arguably there should be a lot more salvage in them...

also, on a side-not, anyone recycled a ship with rigs installed yet?

- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me
- Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please

Wreck Testing - by Bermag

Fri, 24 Nov 2009 09:10:00 +0000

Is the items you salvage depending on race, ship type or all random? For example would killing Gurista rats always drop the same x types of rig components (just like which loot they drop)?

Wreck Testing - by Mor Vince

Fri, 24 Nov 2009 04:42:00 +0000

You can tell if a wreck has loot from a distance with...drum roll please....

Cargo Scanners!

Yep, cargo scanners do indeed show you what is in that wreck, if anything.

This does not resolve the issue. Adding a target, scan step will NOT reduce the aggravation and you would have just as much trouble keeping track of which wrecks you've scanned as which you have opened. It might save some time in travel but only at the addition of up to 150 more operations per 50 cans (target, scan, untarget if empty, target next etc.)

How about dropping a can next to the wreck for loot?

On another note, if I loot someone else's can I'm a thief and they (and thier corp) get temp. kill rights. Does this hold true for wrecks? Does salvaging a wreck give the temp kill rights?

Wreck Testing - by Mor Vince

Fri, 24 Nov 2009 04:21:00 +0000

Kervoran here - I did some additional testing. Mission was Worlds Collide - I cleared out the initial worp in, the Serpentis Side, and the final area. I collected with a cat fitted with 8 Salvagers and 2 tech 1 salvage tackles (riggings). Total wrecks 50, successes 31. items colleceted 36. 5 times I got 2 items (or 3 times 2 and 1 time 3 - not sure my count got a little fuzzy by the end.)

If percentages on salvagers stack, my chances should have been 75%.
If they don't stack but there is a base 15% chance, 55%.
success vs attempts was 62%. Perhaps only 1 rigging counts?
items vs wrecks 72% - perhaps multiple drops is factored in?

Perhaps my sample is still too small, i.e. i had a run of bad/good luck.

Is approzimately 10% of the time 2 (or 3?) items dropped a bug or by design? I only got one salvage success message in log when it would happen.

Wreck Testing - by Kervoran

Fri, 24 Nov 2009 00:20:00 +0000

Just did a bit of testing on wrecks/salvaging. This is from a tier 1 mission that generated 35 wrecks, one of which i shot to see how much ammo/time would be used. I salvaged with a catalyst with 4 Salvager I's fitted, Salvage 3 skill as given automatically for testing, and no other modifiers I know about (no rigs for this for instance). This is still a viable combat ship for T1 missions as I also had 4 guns fitted etc.

Salvage method i used -

1) Target, approach to within 5000 meters and activate salvagers
2) If error "You fail to salvage from the Serpentis Small Wreck because your salvaging equipment cannot be engaged until all loot has been removed from it." approach to within 1500 meters and loot, trying to salvage another target while doing so where another is in range. Salvage first one after looting.

Points I want to make:

1) 35 wrecks in a 30 km radius, more or less, were just too many to keep track of if you just want to find loot and not salvage. It also really complicated targeting by the overview until i filtered them out. Anyone without salvaging skill & equipment fitted is going to have a really hard time - and it's going to be a long time till a new player gets this (see point 2). An option to treat them as cans - i.e. destroy on looting automatically, or some way to tell the ones with loot inside from the ones that don't, is definitely necessary IMO. I'd prefer a color difference to an icon difference. Shooting them up takes too long and too much ammo, not a winner. In my opinion this is a showstopper and MUST be addressed.

2) Prereqs - The prereqs for the skill are way too high in my opinion. WIth a new character I'd tend to concentrate on learning and base skills needed for combat and better ships. I already have 60+ trains planned for the character I'm going to start with Kali's release, all directed at learning and preparing for L2 missions. Mechanic 5 isn't in the list, and Survey 5 is even further. I'd suggest Mechanic 4 and Survey 3?

3) Mechanics - Working just fine IMO. Salvage 3 gives 15% bonus to chance of finding something and the Salvager I gives 5% bonus for a total 30% bonus. From 34 wrecks (I shot one) I got 12 components, 12/34 = 35.29% salvage rate. I concluded (admittedly working from too small of a sample here) either:

base chance is 15%, with bonuses 35% with my skills and equipment, and salvagers do not stack, or;
base chance is 0% plus 35% and multiple salvagers do stack.

Whether or not 4 salvager I's on one target up the odds - you will salvage in 1 cycle 80% of the time, 2 cycles 20% of the time. This seemed well balanced!

If the second option is the case and salvagers on one target stack, and I have 2 Salvage Tackle II rigs installed (15% bonus each), Salvage 5, and 8 Salvager I's equipped, the bonus would be 8*5% + 2*15% + 5*5% = 95% chance. Given this, I would think that variants of the base Salvager I, when introduced, would reduce fitting needs and give a small improvement on cycle time.

If salvagers don't stack, and frankly I think this would be a better option (multiple salvagers almost always getting the job done in 1 cycle is a great timesaver and probably enough of a bonus)then you have room to play with the bonus to chance to salvage to differentiate them.

In general I like the system - but I think dealing with large amounts of wrecks for months before you can even start salavaging is a non-starter. Personally I'd have no interest in being a specialized salvager, i.e. doing this as a mini-profession. Trading, mining, research and manufacturing and combat operations are enough variants for me. THis is not suited since we need to loot our kills and the current setup will make this very hard.

Wreck Testing - by BaJaiah

Thu, 23 Nov 2009 22:52:00 +0000

Edited by: BaJaiah on 23/11/2006 23:02:12

I just tested salvaging on sisi, and I must say it works out pretty good imho.

There is the issue about wrecks not changing state (color in overview or similar) and not being able to rename them, which makes good old fashioned looting a pain. But I'm sure this will be taken care of.

Currently wrecks do disappear when salvaged, so if people clean up after themselves we'll have no more or less lag than before (I hope). They can also be shot down as easily as normal loot-cans.

Instead of complaining about you can't loot in you favorite tier 1 hauler anymore, try to adapt a bit. I present the poor mans scavenger:

Osprey
2 x tractor beams
2 x salvagers
10nm afterburner or MWD if you tend to end your missions before looting and don't go into deadspace.
3 x cargo expanders

[EDIT] Yes tractor beams works on wrecks as well - in case you wondered

This leaves you with 3 med slots and lots of power & CPU to put whatever you want in them.

This scavenger is going 350 m/s (850 m/s MWD) with about 850 m3 cargo hold which really should be able to loot the valuable remains after most encounters.

Of course this can be improved with named/T2 equipment and salvage rigs (when they arrive).

The sweet thing is that the Osprey for some reason have 3 rig slots and the usual 200 points to distribute, resulting in 2x Salvage Tackle rigs and 1 x Salvage Tackle tech 2 rig. This might be surpassed by the Basilisk because it has 2 more high slots than the Osprey, but it only has 2 rig slots...

I'm not sure why we are still plagued by non-named loot in the wrecks and would like to point to an old topic I made regarding this here (look at option 2).

Don't get me wrong - I like to new elements of burned out salvaged stuff, but why ohh why must we still go rummaging through standard loot that any sane pilot would never have fitted on his ship ?

Wreck Testing - by Ishquar Teh'Sainte

Thu, 23 Nov 2009 15:08:00 +0000

Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte

what are the amounts of materials you need to create a t1 rig/t2 rig?

how much materials do you need that can't be obtained by NPCs?
materials for T1 rigs can be viewed via the BPO's , whci happen to be on the market.
Most of the t1 rig materials are salvaged goods. It is highly likely that the only supply of those will be what players gather. The current sell orders of the needed trade goods on singularity are huge cheap ones put up by CCP to facilitate testing (you buy bpo & materials and produce your own).

thx .. i know that you can look up the materials in the BPO .. problem is - where do you get them .. can you build a rig only by looting the materials from NPC wrecks? or do you need to salvage also player wrecks to build vanilla t1 rigs?

if you need for a t2 rigs materials that you can only obtain through t2 player wrecks i estimate a rise in the price of the cheaper t2 ships (interceptors/logistics) ...

want to build a t2 rig? (that likely can be sold for several hundred millions) buy some ares/craptors - "create" wrecks out of them .. salvage the needed materials - build your rig - profit. so more and more t2 ships will be used only for production of t2 rigs
___________________

-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.

Wreck Testing - by Ariane VoxDei

Thu, 23 Nov 2009 14:27:00 +0000

Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte

what are the amounts of materials you need to create a t1 rig/t2 rig?

how much materials do you need that can't be obtained by NPCs?

materials for T1 rigs can be viewed via the BPO's , whci happen to be on the market.
Most of the t1 rig materials are salvaged goods. It is highly likely that the only supply of those will be what players gather. The current sell orders of the needed trade goods on singularity are huge cheap ones put up by CCP to facilitate testing (you buy bpo & materials and produce your own).

Wreck Testing - by Ishquar Teh'Sainte

Thu, 23 Nov 2009 10:04:00 +0000

not sure if this is the right thread for this, but i got a few questions regarding wrecks and rigs.

do you need materials for t2 rigs that can only be obtained through wrecks of t2 player ships?

what are the amounts of materials you need to create a t1 rig/t2 rig?

how much materials do you need that can't be obtained by NPCs?

what are the salvage rates for those non-NPC materials if you salvage a player ship?

why i'm asking this? well ... in the worst case scenario is expect the rise of the cheaper t2 ships (like interceptors/AFs/logistics) to a level where only rigbuilder buy them.
___________________

-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.

Wreck Testing - by Shar Tegral

Thu, 23 Nov 2009 06:16:00 +0000

Anyone else notice the change from mid slot to high slot for the Salvager?

Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.

Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D

Wreck Testing - by Matrix Aran

Thu, 23 Nov 2009 03:44:00 +0000

Edited by: Matrix Aran on 23/11/2006 03:44:16
I think the idea about mission NPC is that they have a fairly low rate of salvage, just as in missions the NPCs have relativly lower drop rates on everything, compared to belt NPCs. Anyone able to confirm this?
----

Wreck Testing - by Hockston Axe

Thu, 23 Nov 2009 03:00:00 +0000

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Hockston Axe
Q: Why is the wreck drop rate 100%? Is this merely just to ensure there are ample rig components at the start? A variable drop rate for wrecks would be far more immersive, ships used to be vaporized in the explosion from time to time.
Can't answer for the dev's myself but I'd say it was to provide ample wrecks for the many attempts. From the experience I'm having with it... I'd say that it is determined at the time of the wreck if something is contained within. The salvaging just goes through to see if you find or lose it.

Inferred guessing on my part. The rig blueprints require enough of these materials that it is going to be work to accomplish any rig. Maybe not as much as some fear but ... well I'm just glad there is such a wreck ratio.

--Additionally--

Also, during my last space flight we watched another ship, in our caravan, get struck by meteorites. It was utterly vaporized which investigators reported as being the first such an accident had ever been record in the preceding centuries of space flight.

This is of course recorded history over the past several centuries. What accidents may have happened in space flight prior to then, or >gasp< if they even had space flight!, we can only guess.

Realism 4tl.

I was just referring to ships that dropped no cans.

But randomly roaming natural disasters would be interesting, especially if you could chase down the meteoroids and mine them in a fast enough ship. (Meteorites on the other hand don't generally move very quickly, or much.)

Wreck Testing - by Venkul Mul

Wed, 22 Nov 2009 17:36:00 +0000

Yesterday (21) the loot cans where targectable by tractor beam. So now it work both on can and wrecks.
The problem is that on about 40 wrecks of high end NPC shiip in a mission I found 0 salvagable parts.
Onestly I feel the skill needed for salvaging are too high. Even if it is a mini profession I think it should be accessible without too much hardships by a new player. Mechanic 5 and survey 5 are a high skill total for a "young" player.
Whit the same skill point he can pilote an assault frigate.

Wreck Testing - by Feyd Darkholme

Wed, 22 Nov 2009 17:03:00 +0000

Originally by: Hockston Axe

+Tractor beams now tow wrecks, and are unable to tow loot cans/jetcans.

Q: Why? That used to be their primary role, is it impossible to allow activation on two types of items?

Oh yuck, Tractor Beams don't tow loot cans at all? That would kind of defeat the purpose of Tractor Beams for everyone that's not a Salvager... I really don't want looting to go back to being even more tedious than it was before, what an unecessarily complicated time-sink.
---------------

Wreck Testing - by ripstop

Wed, 22 Nov 2009 16:09:00 +0000

All of us have been looting cans since time began, it was easy, shoot the ship, ship blows up, open the can and take the loot.

Salvaging is now a new skill to aquire with more gameplay involved. Ignoring the rigs aspect for now, it should be straightforward for most people to accomplish. Shoot the ship, ship blows up and leaves fancy ship graphic shell. Now you have a choice, Loot and leave or Loot, salvage and leave. Personally I like the latter as it allows harvesting of components needed for rigs and is an extra roleplay ability in game (wonders at whole new chat vocabulary in local now "yeah I was in the outer belts and managed to get this deep fat planck bubble stabliser circuit"...but I digress)

What happens if you loot and leave...easy..ship still has salvageable parts and could be salvaged by someone else. But how do you spot a salvageable ship or how do you know if your dead prey has components in it? Some have said colour code, some have said flag symbol. This needs to be worked on but any of these could do even no indication is an option. You would just have to try and salvage it to see if it gives up anything. In gang situations this gets a bit hairy as it takes an extra few seoonds to do this so components could get left behind. Scavenging wrecks is a whole new profession if the ship carcass remains persistant for a few hours. Imagine the scavengers following gangs and cleaning up their mess and salvaging ships. However if you want to take the components yourself go ahead.

I would advocate a deacy rate based on the presence of components in the carcass. If there are components then the decay is slower as residual electrical activity maintains some hull integrity and so the ship carcass stays around for the same amount of time as a can..lets say 2hrs. After that the components are gone and the ship carcass disappears. If the components are removed then the decay is much quicker as there is no electrical activity and no hull integrity...So at this stage the carcass could disintegrate instantly or last for a few minutes.

This behaviour is very similar to jetcans and means there is no real clutter after a finite period of time...until the next ship gets blown up.

Wreck Testing - by Ariane VoxDei

Wed, 22 Nov 2009 15:09:00 +0000

please,

1) make the client autoclose the loot window of the wrecks, once you have removed all loot from them - since salvaging appears to keep failing until the window is closed.

2) make it possible to distinguish, both on the overview and the space view, between looted and unlooted wrecks.

or
3) put the loot in the old containers we were used to, until you find solutions to the 2 above.

Wreck Testing - by Shar Tegral

Wed, 22 Nov 2009 14:48:00 +0000

Originally by: DukeJoost1
We need a tractor salvager hi-slot device, which tractors the wreck, grabs the loot into the cargo hold, salvages any salvagable parts in ONE go and then pops the wreck. Could the tractor beam tech2 be like that

I think this is what is being avoided. If this came to pass salvaging would not be a mini-profession but just another thing that everyone does and not for the sake of salvaging. Just for the sake of making looting easier.

TBH I think the ideal situation would me to have the salvager go to work regardless of if the loot has been removed or not. The salvager would not move the loot into your hold at all. Just it would do what it does and then pop the wreck.

The option to loot or not loot pre salvaging can have a popup warning, with a disable switch, and be completely upto the Player.

Originally by: DukeJoost1
And please display different icons for new and looted wrecks, for example remove the line above the traingle when the wreck has no loot.

Now this I agree with however it may take alot of beers to get the dev's to consider this at this point. I think it's more a case of "pain in the butt" to change aspect as this close to release date. >shrugs<

Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.

Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D

Wreck Testing - by Mr Goods

Wed, 22 Nov 2009 13:22:00 +0000

Its a pain to clear my overview and i spare too much time for check all wreck.

please make it:
no loot = no wreck
after loot = wreck desappear

Wreck Testing - by DukeJoost1

Wed, 22 Nov 2009 13:19:00 +0000

With todays version i can tractor both wrecks and cans.
It appears no more salvagable items come from wrecks,
but that might be related to the missions i did : Illegal Activity,
since i guess these faction standing killing missions could very well give no salvageable items.

As to the significantly increased time looting now takes, this is bad.
Stop ship, tractor wreck to ship, grab loot, switch off tractor, switch on salvager, get next can with tractor etc.
The salvager takes up to 5 tries to determine if there is something to salvage, so up to 50 seconds . Making salvaging chance based is ridiculous Please make it same as looting.
All this delays looting significantly and with it the fun of doing missions.

We need a tractor salvager hi-slot device, which tractors the wreck, grabs the loot into the cargo hold, salvages any salvagable parts in ONE go and then pops the wreck.
Could the tractor beam tech2 be like that

And please display different icons for new and looted wrecks, for example remove the line above the traingle when the wreck has no loot.

Fly safe.

Wreck Testing - by Shar Tegral

Wed, 22 Nov 2009 01:24:00 +0000

Originally by: Hockston Axe
Q: Why is the wreck drop rate 100%? Is this merely just to ensure there are ample rig components at the start? A variable drop rate for wrecks would be far more immersive, ships used to be vaporized in the explosion from time to time.

Can't answer for the dev's myself but I'd say it was to provide ample wrecks for the many attempts. From the experience I'm having with it... I'd say that it is determined at the time of the wreck if something is contained within. The salvaging just goes through to see if you find or lose it.

Inferred guessing on my part. The rig blueprints require enough of these materials that it is going to be work to accomplish any rig. Maybe not as much as some fear but ... well I'm just glad there is such a wreck ratio.

--Additionally--

Also, during my last space flight we watched another ship, in our caravan, get struck by meteorites. It was utterly vaporized which investigators reported as being the first such an accident had ever been record in the preceding centuries of space flight.

This is of course recorded history over the past several centuries. What accidents may have happened in space flight prior to then, or >gasp< if they even had space flight!, we can only guess.

Realism 4tl.

Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.

Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D

Wreck Testing - by Hockston Axe

Tue, 21 Nov 2009 23:29:00 +0000

Ive been interested in the salvaging mini-profession since I first heard about it, have been following the reports on it and have some comments/questions. I like the concept of salvaging and wrecks, but from what Ive gathered so far the implementation seems to be at such a rudimentary stage as to be of little real value as a mini-profession or enhancement to the Eve experience.

+Upon ship destruction, a wreck is spawned with a 100% drop rate, except for mission specific objectives, which still drop in loot cans. Loot is contained within the wreck, using variable drop rates.

Q: Why is the wreck drop rate 100%? Is this merely just to ensure there are ample rig components at the start? A variable drop rate for wrecks would be far more immersive, ships used to be vaporized in the explosion from time to time.
Q: Has it been added yet/will there be a quick and easy way to determine if a wreck contains loot from the overview/in space icons?

+Tractor beams now tow wrecks, and are unable to tow loot cans/jetcans.

Q: Why? That used to be their primary role, is it impossible to allow activation on two types of items?

+Wrecks behave like loot cans, vanishing after one to two hours.

Q: Is this simply for an easier introduction of this new feature, with plans for improvements?

+Optimally a dedicated ship/setup should be used for salvaging.

A mature state of a salvaging mini-profession/wrecks to me would look like:
+Variable drop rate on wrecks, really fancy would be drop rate variables: NPC+Variable lifespan on wrecks. Its fine to have NPC frigs/cruisers vanish in an hour or two, but the larger the wreck, or the higher the quality, the longer it should live. All the way up to capital ship wrecks being permanently in space until salvaged. This would promote a true mini-profession, where one could search out or stumble upon unsalvaged player created wrecks, rather than just being the guy with the broom, cleaning up after your group or self.

Currently salvaging looks to be little more than an extra step to the looting of personal kills, while confounding the basic item looting in the process. There is no incentive to for example go to low sec and search for juicy unsalvaged wrecks, of which there will probably be plenty, because the wreck will be gone within hours of its creation (and those who created it will probably still be around).

What have I missed/gotten completely wrong, and is this only the first step in the implementation of salvaging/wrecks or is there nothing planned to enhance what could be a very cool and immersive new feature?

Wreck Testing - by Shar Tegral

Tue, 21 Nov 2009 21:24:00 +0000

I'll be spending time in salvaging, though widely considered dubious, as I did with COSMOS. (Another widely considered dubious activity.) I don't care for all the hooplah about profitability and all that jazz. It's part of the game, it produces something, and I'm going to try it out and try it out to the fullest extent.

Currently I'm playing around on SISI low sec ratting in a scorp with 4 salvagers installed. Fair bit of success. Let me say that whoever realized the COSMOS spawns would be farmed is a clever chap. Getting mostly scrap metal from salvaging those wrecks was rather fitting reward for such little work.

After working for a bit I do see that there is a problem with, as someone pointed out, the number of actions required to salvage. One thing I would agree with is an icon change, or color change, from a "looted" wreck and a non-looted wreck. It would speed interested parties along on their way.

I would also sign off on the salvager being an auto-looter module. It makes far more sense to have the module auto-empty any cans into my cargo hold then to have to open each wreck, loot or no loot, and then empty and salvage scan. Another, secondary suggestion, would be to have a looted wreck not spawn a container window. This would also mean that any wreck that has the loot taken out the window would automatically close.

That would clear up a few things easy and quick in some regards. If the window opens there is loot, if it doesn't there isn't. Right now a player's screen can get a bunch of windows that you have to either close or keep letting stack up.

I also wish there was a daily bug list thread. Found a few things with today's build, non-salvage, related but rather hard to find a place to see if it has been reported already.

PS: To the people that can not find a salvager on the market. It takes no time to buy the bpo, at npc price, purchase the minerals at the seeded stations and to have your very own salvager I. CCP can't do everything for you.

Protagonist must have an Antagonist. Otherwise he's just a guy playing with himself.

Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D

Wreck Testing - by Venkul Mul

Tue, 21 Nov 2009 20:55:00 +0000

Originally by: ShadeLiner

anoter option for corporate so after the large mission can come the hauler and the scavangers to clear the space..

Exactly why that should be good? I dubt the average player like to be the janitor for the big guns of a corporation. I could do that occasionally, but it seem it will be a profession. Some rechent (today) test has gotten: 31 wrecks tried from the mission "In the midst of deadspace", ship where Amar navy armaggeddon, Delta frigate II caldari and Amarr, Caldari Navy Raven, so no little newbie ships.
Salvaged item 0 (as in none, nada, ecc.).
A player in help chat has sayd that if you install more than one salvager and use them all on the same wreck you always get salvage.
If this is right and a good chance of salvage is so skill and module intensive, the one doing the salvage will be pratically struck in his role.
In the end the only ones doing it will be some mission runner with a prepared recovery ship after completing a mission near his home base and the corporations with some "mule" player doing the dirty work.

Even if EVE is Massive Multy Player it isn't always played in Massive Multiplayer Organizations. For a 8 person corporation with player dispersed in all the timezones it will be a Massive Logistic Problem.

Wreck Testing - by ShadeLiner

Tue, 21 Nov 2009 08:18:00 +0000

Last time I was able to enter Sisi the salvage module wasn't jet available. To address some of the above problem, a combo tractor beam/salvage module can be a solution, or to be more clear, giving to salvage module the ability to tractor the wreck.
As thing stand, a dedicate salvager in a slow ship need to use 2 modules: 1 high for the tractor beam, and another for the salvage module (a middle i think). That will be a big nerfing for the PvE players Sad, the ones that have the greatest chance to have big numbers of wrecks.

anoter option for corporate so after the large mission can come the hauler and the scavangers to clear the space..

Wreck Testing - by RedClaws

Tue, 21 Nov 2009 07:49:00 +0000

What do you guys think about the models for the capital ship wrecks? I'm not sure if i have some kind of graphical bug or not but there seem to be holes cut out of the model making it look quite bad.

Wreck Testing - by Kaden Seer

Mon, 20 Nov 2009 17:29:00 +0000

Agreed, transition needs more work
<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>
More drone bay for Myrmidon!!!

Wreck Testing - by Malena

Mon, 20 Nov 2009 16:19:00 +0000

Originally by: Ikarushka
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now?

There is loot inside the wreck; once you take it out you can try to salvge the wreck. So it works exactly like cans did with loot, it just looks differently

So in noob terms...when a ship is destroyed, a random (ha-ha) amount of modules/items will be destroyed and the rest left in the wreck. You recover the wreck, presuming you want to spend the time waiting for the scanner and hoping it won't fail. Then you try and salvage something from the wreck, and you have a chance to lose items during that as well?

Seems like CCP's attempt to at least slow down inflation. Suddenly you aren't getting a ton of crap loot from drops, which means that simultaneously gaining ISK through bounties and minerals through recycle is done, which means less minerals in circulation, which means the price goes up and people actually have to start thinking about their purchases, 100 million thrown here or there is no longer a simple thing like it is for a lot of people. (Unfortunately, I am not one of those!) This will also drive up the price of the middle of the road modules-the lower end will stay pretty much the same for a good bit of time, there are too many of them in the game. But the middle of road, rare-but-not-uber-rare modules will likely see a slight increase in prices.

Or am I just reading too much into it?

Wreck Testing - by Jet Collins

Mon, 20 Nov 2009 14:54:00 +0000

ok to answer my own question if someone else is wondering, So far I have seen tha salavaged items take up 1 m3.

Now some have said the scanning results are pretty good while other say it fails to often.

I would have to agree that it fails to often. On test sever we are given the skill trained to lvl 3. Now I would think the # of times it is currently failing might happen at lvl 1 or lvl 2. I think it fails to often for lvl 3.

NOw I didn't look at the skill very closly but can we get perfect scanning at lvl 5? if not that definally need to make it better. Lvl 5 should be success ever time. any mods that improve scanning should decress the time taken.

Wreck Testing - by Clone runner

Mon, 20 Nov 2009 01:27:00 +0000

i think wrecks should get a hp boost, carrier wreck only taking 400dmg lol
if you pop an enemy carrier there just going to pop the wreck in an interceptor or sniper and laugh before you salvage it, (assuming they give anything worthwhile from salvage anyway, i would like to think they do considering the ships cost)

Wreck Testing - by DukeJoost1

Sun, 19 Nov 2009 20:27:00 +0000

Originally by: Ikarushka
I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way

Indeed, and tractor beams do NOT work on them !!!

Fly safe

Wreck Testing - by Ikarushka

Sun, 19 Nov 2009 19:12:00 +0000

Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now?

There is loot inside the wreck; once you take it out you can try to salvge the wreck. So it works exactly like cans did with loot, it just looks differently

Wreck Testing - by Hohenheim OfLight

Sun, 19 Nov 2009 13:04:00 +0000

Does loot not drop at all any more I dont seam to be able to find loot, is salvaged the only way now?
----------------------------------------------

Gone but not forgotten

Wreck Testing - by Venkul Mul

Sun, 19 Nov 2009 08:28:00 +0000

Originally by: Ikarushka
I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way

I think and hope it is supposed to be that way, so you don't have to check 40 items repeatedly to get the right can. There is the added problem that can can't be tractored, so you need to get to hit with your soo slow BS. In a good number of missions while still under fire.
Bye Bye to the hit and snatch missions. You must always grind all the enemyes.

Wreck Testing - by Ikarushka

Sun, 19 Nov 2009 02:44:00 +0000

I think the missions specific items drop into cans (like if they ask you to bring reports), not sure if that's suppose to be that way
-----------------------------------------
Your ad could be here :)

Wreck Testing - by DukeJoost1

Sat, 18 Nov 2009 23:25:00 +0000

So do mission , bookmarks cans , dock, complete mission , hop into hauler with tractor and salvager, warp to bookmark ... hey bookmarks dont work !!!!
Goodbye loot

Wreck Testing - by Dr Smog

Sat, 18 Nov 2009 22:14:00 +0000

Has the obvious exploit been blocked? i.e. repeatedly popping your own alt in a noobship for free salvage? I'm hoping noob ship give no salvage - otherwise the only cost-efficient source of salvage items is going to be farming salvage from noob alts in a war-decced corp.

Wreck Testing - by Venkul Mul

Sat, 18 Nov 2009 08:52:00 +0000

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 18/11/2006 08:54:26
You need tto buy the BPO for the rigging and build them with the salvaged items.
The problem for me is the combo: 30 second for attempt in the 5 km range of the salvager, average of about 3 attempt for 1 result (90 seconds average for wreck, about 1/4 of the wrecks with salvage), move to next wrek to loot then salvage.
To do it in a half decent time you have 2 option
a) fast frigate with salvager and good cargo space(a Probe?);
b) Cargo cruiser (exequror) or industrial with tractors beams and salvagers.

Option a is the one for new players, but I dubt new players will spend the skill point for learnining the salvaging skill;
Option B is a totally non combat ship - worth it only in specific situations.

So basically new players, the ones that will need more the income, will not be picking wrecks, PvPers will be picking wreks only in systems they control and where they have a salvage ship; mission runners will be picking wrecks only after completing the mission it they are still there and probably will lose not only most of the wreck but most of the loot too to the expiration time of cans as the higher number of wreck and the impossibility to identify the ones looted make recovering them during the mission a totally waste of time.

End result: salvaged items will be a rare commodity.

Wreck Testing - by Devick Baalreth

Sat, 18 Nov 2009 00:46:00 +0000

The issue I run into is that its too time consuming with failures. I don't mind failures but 7 in a row makes me wanna self destroy my ship and scrap the whole thing. I wouldn't mind spending 30 seconds per wreck if it would stop failing so much. 7 failures means 70s. Still have no idea what the salvaging goes for you, I get cargo space taken up with items that sound like they are unrecoverable but say they can be. Other then that I don't know what to do with them, Repairshop? Refinement?

Its a unique idea, and having to work for components is a good idea to me. But after a while its just not worth the mid slot. Especially when you're ratting a lot.

When I go back on tonight, I will be trying salvage again.

Any information on the step after the salvaging is done would be nice.

Wreck Testing - by Jet Collins

Fri, 17 Nov 2009 20:46:00 +0000

How much space do salvaged items take up?

Just wondering am I going to need a much larger cargo hold to loot now?

Currently I use a 1000m3 cruiser to look in lvl 4 mission(more tractor beams than a hauler)

Now I'm guessing I will get the same amount of loot with Kali but now I'll be looting for rig equipment. How much more space can I expect to be taken up for this stuff?

Thanks

Wreck Testing - by Shayla Etherodyne

Fri, 17 Nov 2009 11:17:00 +0000

the only test I had the time to do after the last patch:
12 drone wrecks - 0 salvare
2 building - 0 salvage

average 3-4 cycles each try.

A good quantity of time for 0 success, and losing a middle slot during a complex run.

The best chance for salvaging plaing solo? A barge in a 0.5 system. Mine and launch the drones. While you mine a full jetcan you will be attacked multiple times by rats. Equip the industrial you use to recover the jetcan with tractor beam and a salvager and voila, you can recover minerals, loot and salvage. I don't think that was the idea behind the salvagin.

Wreck Testing - by Metacannibal

Thu, 16 Nov 2009 19:42:00 +0000

salvage ratios seem VERY VERY low on player ships.
i have just salvaged five! moros class dreadnaught wrecks, and in return i got four salvage components.
that sounds VERY VERY VERY low. if thats really the ratio of these drops, i can not see anyone using rigs realistically due to exorbitant rarity.
i did assume that rigs were kind of a treat for pvpers, something that would drop from npc's but mostly from player ships. now if you consider previous reported ratios on npcs, how do you expect these items to get use outside of "multi billion isk empire mission runner ravens" if they are so rare, even on player capital ships.

Wreck Testing - by Korvin Eeex

Thu, 16 Nov 2009 11:22:00 +0000

I did some testing on wrecks and idea behind wrecks is not bad but implementation could be better.

Good:
- You can tractor wrecks same as loot cans.
- Even with Salvaging skills on lvl 1, chance to salvage wreck is pretty good.

Things that need to be improved:
- Looted wrecks must be marked (different color, different icon). As it is now you dont have a clue if wreck is already looted or not and that is very annoying.
- There should be some progres bar for Salvager (same as with ECM, dampeners). As it is now you dont know what is going on - you only see salvager activated and that is all. Many times you will get message that Salvager missed to pick up material from wreck and it will go to next cycle - so progress bar should be there to show what is going on.
- It should be possible to salvage wreck even if loot is in wreck. If you didnt pick up loot and you salvaged wreck loot is lost together with wreck. As it is now you need to take loot from every single wreck and your cargo hold will be full in no time, so you have to jettison loot very often. But this is probably intention of CCP to introduce salvaging profession and make people working as team.

Number of Salvaged materials (tested on NPCs only):
Frigate size ship: 1
Destroyer size ship: 1
Cruiser size ship: 1
Battlecruiser size ship: 1
Battleship size ship: 1 and very rare 2

Rigs BPOs are tweaked and quantity of salvaged materials for producing rigs are much lower now. But you will need somewhere between 50 - few hundreds of different salvaged material (usually 3 different materials for each rig). So if you get from 2 x BS and 2 x frigate spawn 4pcs of salvaged materials for one rig someone has to kill and salvage anywhere from 10 - 100 spawns to be able to make one rig and that is a lot. I did not try to hunt NPCs in 0.5 but I presume there will also be possible to get some materials (these will probably be cheaper because of bigger number of people ratting in 0.5 or safe sec in general).

Salvaging is only as CCP stated 'Mini Profession'. I cannot see people that are ratting (especially in 0.0) to be salvagers at same time. It is time consuming job and it will make ratting to take even more time, so I presume some people will fit special ships and be 'salvagers' going after ratter and salvaging wreck after wreck.

I tried multiple Salvagers at one ship but it seems that only one is enough.

I didnt try to salvage wreck from other player. I presume that taking loot from other people wreck will mark you red for 15 mins but not sure what will happen if loot is not there and someone salvage only materials from wreck. It will probably make you red, same as with loot but it has to be confirmed. If that is not a case marking wreck without loot by different color/icon makes even more sense.

Wreck Testing - by Joran Ven

Thu, 16 Nov 2009 02:15:00 +0000

Ok the scanner is indeed the item used to get the goodies, at the base standerds granted on test (salvage 3) I was getting items about a third of the time, the scanner itself also has a failure rate though it will keep trying untill it succeeds.

Wreck Testing - by Coniglietta Magica

Wed, 15 Nov 2009 22:30:00 +0000

Except for those of us that are colour deficient...

I have a crazy hard time seeing the red ship icons most of the time...

Wreck Testing - by Xaeon

Wed, 15 Nov 2009 21:12:00 +0000

Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Doc Extropy
I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted.

This is absolutely vital. The inability to determine which wrecks have been checked for cargo will be crippling to mission runners. Either they'll have to spend all their time salvaging everything, or all their time trying to destroy everything.

A different symbol for a full wreck vs empty wreck or perhaps have wrecks disappear 30 seconds after being emptied. That way if you are into salvage you can still empty and start to salvage it, but if you're not you won't be bothered by it.

Something as simple as a different coulour would do it tbh.

Chapter V

Wreck Testing - by Kylania

Wed, 15 Nov 2009 20:51:00 +0000

Originally by: Doc Extropy
I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted.

This is absolutely vital. The inability to determine which wrecks have been checked for cargo will be crippling to mission runners. Either they'll have to spend all their time salvaging everything, or all their time trying to destroy everything.

A different symbol for a full wreck vs empty wreck or perhaps have wrecks disappear 30 seconds after being emptied. That way if you are into salvage you can still empty and start to salvage it, but if you're not you won't be bothered by it.
--
Lil Miner
Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup

Wreck Testing - by Xaeon

Wed, 15 Nov 2009 19:13:00 +0000

The bpo for the tool is up - though the description says it's just a scanner, and I've yet to test this further.

I'm currently trying to scan wrecks but they just keep telling me that there is nothing worth salvaging.

Is this supposed to be the case at the moment?
Anyone else tried this?

Chapter V

Wreck Testing - by Admiral Pieg

Wed, 15 Nov 2009 19:10:00 +0000

Originally by: Doc Extropy
Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:48
Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:12
I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted.

If you use an alt for loot retrieval who is also your logistics guy it would be more than annoying having each mission take the double time because you have to try to salvage each wreck.

Renaming is the way to go, but the system says "can't rename that kind of object". VERY inconveniant, my dears, very inconveniant.

I hope this is not meant as an npc hunting / mission running nerf.

im not sure what it would nerf, besides our sanity
______________

Pod from above.

Wreck Testing - by Doc Extropy

Wed, 15 Nov 2009 08:24:00 +0000

Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:48
Edited by: Doc Extropy on 15/11/2006 08:27:12
I urgently request that CCP gives us a tool to identify wrecks from which we have already looted.

If you use an alt for loot retrieval who is also your logistics guy it would be more than annoying having each mission take the double time because you have to try to salvage each wreck.

Renaming is the way to go, but the system says "can't rename that kind of object". VERY inconveniant, my dears, very inconveniant.

I hope this is not meant as an npc hunting / mission running nerf.

Wreck Testing - by voidvim

Sun, 12 Nov 2009 13:24:00 +0000

Edited by: voidvim on 12/11/2006 13:35:43

Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord
It would be nice if Rigs could be built either from salvage (as now) OR from normal minerals and components, giving one a choice when using the blueprints.

It stands to reason that the salvage materials were things one can build with minerals and components, as they come from ships which can be built. Therefor people building rigs should be able to make them, at increased expense, from new components instead of broken ones.

Alternativly, having blueprints for the salvage components, so that they can be manufactured separatly, for people who want to use new components instead of rubbish.

True , I think when we built a item in a factory the factory most built all the salvage components (that riggs use) when it builts the item. Making sub-components first, then puting them together to make a finished item. Thus their is no reason for use not to able to make the salvage components.

But ccp wants rigging to be done via salvaging to make a new mini profession. It's not logical of course, but that's ccp for you.

Wreck Testing - by Chris2746

Sat, 11 Nov 2009 21:17:00 +0000

It would be likely that the rig components would be seeded at least in small numbers when kali goes live so the issue of having to have a rig to salvage to build a rig to salvage stuff to make rigs probably wouldnt be an issue.

Also, as of the last time i was able to get on the test server (couple days now that the server's been locked) salvagers, or salvager BPOs were not seeded in lonetrek, or anywhere in that vicinity.
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made alot of people very angry and been widely reguarded as a bad move.

Wreck Testing - by Kunming

Fri, 10 Nov 2009 19:30:00 +0000

Originally by: Mephysto
Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers. They cause no more or less lag than the cans did. As stated above, they do not pop when emptied because you also have the new ability to salvage wrecks, and potentially find components for rig manufacturing. 4, 5 and 6 are all probably bugs. Please check they are listed on the bugs thread on this forum, so we can review them later when we have a stable build.

#4 isnt a bug, Self destructing a ship always resolved in all modules being destroyed too, thats the whole point of self destructing anyways.. but who am I telling this!

Wreck Testing - by Sphynx Stormlord

Fri, 10 Nov 2009 10:21:00 +0000

It would be nice if Rigs could be built either from salvage (as now) OR from normal minerals and components, giving one a choice when using the blueprints.

It stands to reason that the salvage materials were things one can build with minerals and components, as they come from ships which can be built. Therefor people building rigs should be able to make them, at increased expense, from new components instead of broken ones.

Alternativly, having blueprints for the salvage components, so that they can be manufactured separatly, for people who want to use new components instead of rubbish.

Wreck Testing - by Jinx Barker

Thu, 9 Nov 2009 21:33:00 +0000

Just tested some things on SiSi.

Folllwoing ratio on T1 Rigs now: 22/9 or 10/22 items needed. Which means that with the current 1 item of slavage per/Wreck thing. We only need to kill about 56-60 ships as opposed to 250-30 before.

I think its good news.

Wreck Testing - by Tobber Harley

Thu, 9 Nov 2009 21:25:00 +0000

Originally by: Mephysto
Wrecks now drop in place of the old cargo containers. They cause no more or less lag than the cans did. As stated above, they do not pop when emptied because you also have the new ability to salvage wrecks, and potentially find components for rig manufacturing. 4, 5 and 6 are all probably bugs. Please check they are listed on the bugs thread on this forum, so we can review them later when we have a stable build.

I tested salvaging wrecks yesterday, and it seems like it's working ok. I just have one BIG complaint! You can't salvage a wreck when there is still loot in the can, which makes it pretty cumbersome since you have to wait for the wreck to get within 1500m to be able to open and empty it first.

Why doesn't the salvage module just transfer all loot in the wreck to your cargo when doing the salvage? And if you don't have enough cargo space for the loot in the wreck it should just complain about it and stop the salvage module...

Regards, Tobber Harley...

Wreck Testing - by Elfman

Thu, 9 Nov 2009 10:00:00 +0000

Sounds like salvage drones would be usefull here.

Was something mentioned way back in 2003 or so.......
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.

Wreck Testing - by Hesed

Thu, 9 Nov 2009 07:33:00 +0000

I can't seem to open a wreck unless I target lock it first. I scribbled a BgRpt on it, but now I'm not sure if should have bothered.

Bug or Feature?

Wreck Testing - by Ratzap

Thu, 9 Nov 2009 02:40:00 +0000

Multiple salvage mods seem to give you multiple tries per wreck so long as they get activated quickly enough. Once 1 succeeds though, it looks like that poofs the wreck (which is logical enough).

We'll need some sort of salvage cruiser setup. I'm thinking Blackbird or abuse a recon at the moment (needs med slots, tractors and nanos/expanders).

Ratzap

Wreck Testing - by LaCoHa

Wed, 8 Nov 2009 22:37:00 +0000

Edited by: LaCoHa on 08/11/2006 22:38:50
may have already been mentioned.. but seeing as killing the Caldari Navy/Imperial Navy/whatever is easy as hell to kill (I am a criminal you see.. so they like to shoot at me, but dont get sentry support, nor do they shoot at my drones -silly, i know) in Revelations.. has anyone checked those wrecks? You can basically have an endless supply of wrecks by docking/undocking and then slaughtering all the new arrivals.

anyone looted them? do they give you good/better stuff?

"I just slaughtered 28 people in that game of Battlefield 2 and never died. Man my e-p33n feels huge."

Wreck Testing - by triny

Wed, 8 Nov 2009 19:05:00 +0000

Well, new patch tried the salvaging again. used 2 salvage mods, 3 rigs for enhancing efficiency of salvaging. result was that 50% off the time i got 1 or 2 mods. The amounts off the items needed to build a rig has been decreased so it might actuall work now.

Wreck Testing - by Tek'a Rain

Tue, 7 Nov 2009 19:14:00 +0000

word from somone in another thread is that you can stack them, and using 4 at a time against a single wreck can mean loot every time.

Wreck Testing - by Nachtjaeger

Tue, 7 Nov 2009 18:11:00 +0000

Originally by: Kanerix Wolfe

5. Has anybody been able to successfully salvage a rig from a wreck?

Rigs aren't salvaged from wrecks, components for rigs are. Regardless of the size of ship, ie frig, cruiser, bs, all wrecks only yield 1 item on a successful salvage attempt.

There is a salvage rig, the t1 version gives 10% extra chance of successfully salvaging, this doesn't mean you actually get anything tho. From what i experienced salvaging NPC wrecks only a few yielded nothing at all. Salvage module has a 10 second cycle time and you can sit there until it successfully salvages, just like codebreakers and analysers. What i didn't check was if fitting more than one salvage rig is possible and if it is, if they get a stacking penalty. As it stands atm, you only get a 25% chance with salvage at level 5 and no rig.

Wreck Testing - by Kanerix Wolfe

Tue, 7 Nov 2009 15:05:00 +0000

1. As it stands, tractor beams no longer works on standard cans.
2. When popping drones, the wrecks end up having more mass and are much larger than the actual drone was.
3. Using a tractor beam on a wreck looks almost disconcerting, as there is a lot of misc crap floating there and it all moves together with the tractor beam.
4. Player ship wrecks show as the race and class of ship that was wrecked. Mission ship and 'rats' do not, and just display as 'Wreck'.
5. Has anybody been able to successfully salvage a rig from a wreck?

Wreck Testing - by Satal Sonshi

Mon, 6 Nov 2009 22:13:00 +0000

In another thread earlier today, this was suggested, which I find particularly simple and valuable. I feel that if this was implemented, it would clear up all confusion over loot collection, so that we could instead focus on salvaging (which is the whole point of wrecks, right?):

1. A wreck containing cargo (loot), has a filled in Triangle icon.
2. A wreck containing no cargo (no loot), has an empty Triangle icon.

I understand that this goes against the concept that you have to LOOK first to know if there's cargo, but this is a game, and ease/value are important. Explain it as a default mass/density scanner that can discover if there's stuff in cargo, but it can't discern what it is. But please don't make looting an overly infuriating task. Salvaging, the new stuff, is what should take new effort.

Wreck Testing - by Xcom

Mon, 6 Nov 2009 21:43:00 +0000

Originally by: Zatch
I still maintain that wrecks should pop when they are looted, and they shouldn't drop empty. It's the same situation with a tractor beam: either you fit one and possibly gimp your setup for easier looting, or you don't fit one and either slowboat or have an alt come in with tractor beams. It should work the same way with salvage modules: if you loot the cans, you knowingly sacrifice the ability to salvage from that wreck. If you bring a salvage module, you can try salvaging first. Industrial ships have mids so I don't see this being a problem at all.

Your idea gimps all salvage lovers chance to salvage more. Why not simply have a small flag or icon appearing on the wrecks to indicate its empty. And if you want to, use drones to blow it up. No ammo lost, just a little time consuming.

Questions:
1. When you activate the salvage module on a wreck, do you have to wait until it has finished its cycle to give you the item? And how long is the cycle?

2. Does different ships, structures and factions. Give different wrecks?

3. Can you place items inside wrecks or only take items out?

4. The wrecks are very large. Cant they cause problems in battlefields when ships get tangled up inside them? Maybe make them smaller or able for ships to fly through them.

Wreck Testing - by Kazuo Ishiguro

Mon, 6 Nov 2009 14:48:00 +0000

That would cause considerable problems to begin with- you'd need to salvage wrecks to build the rig needed to salvage the wrecks :)

I like the idea of a rig with a salvaging bonus, though- perhaps one that increases the salvage yield. Is there already one that does this?
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Racer in the ISGC Frigate League