EVE-Search ForumWatch http://eve-search.com/ The alternative EVE-Online Forum browser. en-us Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:00:00 +0000 EVE-Search RSS Module v1.1 chribba@evemail <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Sir Juri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#201 Originally by: Maya Rkell
No, it's called an alternate point of view. People have them, because we're not all obnoxious bigots who have to flame anyone who dissents from their narrow point of view, like you.

When Microsoft's own documentation talks about needing a HDTV to experience the 360 properly...


no its not about difference in view point.

Its like I would say -well science says their is a law called gravity, but I believe their is no such thing.

Now go to xbox.com and get a clue you noob. Yes to get the PROPER EXPERIENCE! not an xbox 1 experience, but I will send a mail to Bill Gates to clarify this for retards that exists out there, ones like you that dont own one but knows that im wrong which plays it every week. Oh and 360 has better graphics even without an HD-TV.


About Vista you obviously know nothing, running out of ideas, where did you come up with that one? Laughing Now you making up lies, I can honestly say you are about both Vista/360 and DirectX10. Usually you represent a view but this time you lie and reason of your views are your wallet speaking or psychotic reasons.Rolling Eyes



Im a noob, bear with me :P]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582633 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by kieron]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#200 Dev Blog and turn all discussion to the new thread.


kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:46:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582639 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by General Tso's]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#199

They say the universe is perfect
If you try to change it, you'll only ruin it
If you try to hold onto it, it will only slip away]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:44:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582650 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by pyr8t]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#198
The only reason you're complaining is because you don't want to upgrade to VISTA. That's fine. Stay with a crap OS that caters to older technology. Fine by me. Meanwhile, i'll have a VISTA running machine with the fantastic DX10 graphics settings.

ANd another thing, the fact that you're complaining that CCP is using DX10 when every single other PC game is going to have to do that same thing if they want to keep up with the market makes you a hipocrit.

You sound like you just don't want to CHANGE. But CHANGE, espically change to VISTA, is a good thing. Not a bad thing.

Every single development house in the gaming industry is excited about DX10 and what it does for games.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:36:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582685 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#197 Edited by: digitalwanderer on 14/04/2006 22:31:52
Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Dhin Xar
Originally by: Sir Juri

Dont get Vista fine rest of the world will have to.


Someone appears to not know why Microsoft is getting hit with Antitrust lawsuits left and right.


someone doesnt know that Microsoft lost many, but it wont matter? *headache* so your point? you will keep using XP? or a another OS?


The basic point is that the main feature of vista is the fancy GUI and it's DX10 support,wich is the only reason why it's actually any sort of advancement over what's currently out right now...Yup even microsoft is running out of ideas on what to add to it's O/S's,so let's just make it with a 3D interface and hardware intensive so that both they and hardware makers make tons of money at users expense... Rolling Eyes


Heck the only reason i changed to XP from windows 2000 pro was that it's doesn't have support for SLI or crossfire video card setups like XP has,otherwise i'd still stay with win 2000 pro,as it had the features i needed,was faster than XP since it uses less resources and it just as stable...


DX is what basically keeping microsoft alive these days,at least for home use in multimedia apps,as there are better choices for everything else...
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:30:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582707 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#196
When Microsoft's own documentation talks about needing a HDTV to experience the 360 properly...

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:29:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582711 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Sir Juri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#195 Originally by: Maya Rkell
Mayor problems? No, I don't think so. I don't even know who the Mayor of Oxford is.

Your assumptions and ignorance, combined with your arrogance are locking you into a single, narrow and biased worldview. I am hardly alone in my stance. And no, I still use 2k. Because there is nothing in XP which is of any value to me. Vista is actually of negative value, because it will prevent me from doing a lot I do today which is perfectly legal. And it will be that way for a LOT of people...they just haven't realised the implications yet.

And yes, you've wasted your cash on a shiny console which has no real advantage over the previous gen console at this point on a normal TV, given the fact that the current games are mostly Xbox titles which are ported or defered for the 360. In a year it might be worthwhile..but right now, it's tech for tech's sake. Which is just silly.


what you do now is make up lies. About 360, wow I guess you go for the "bigger the lie is..." tactic.



Im a noob, bear with me :P]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582727 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Sir Juri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#194 Originally by: Dhin Xar
Originally by: Sir Juri

Dont get Vista fine rest of the world will have to.


Someone appears to not know why Microsoft is getting hit with Antitrust lawsuits left and right.


someone doesnt know that Microsoft lost many, but it wont matter? *headache* so your point? you will keep using XP? or a another OS?



Im a noob, bear with me :P]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:16:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582777 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#193
Your assumptions and ignorance, combined with your arrogance are locking you into a single, narrow and biased worldview. I am hardly alone in my stance. And no, I still use 2k. Because there is nothing in XP which is of any value to me. Vista is actually of negative value, because it will prevent me from doing a lot I do today which is perfectly legal. And it will be that way for a LOT of people...they just haven't realised the implications yet.

And yes, you've wasted your cash on a shiny console which has no real advantage over the previous gen console at this point on a normal TV, given the fact that the current games are mostly Xbox titles which are ported or defered for the 360. In a year it might be worthwhile..but right now, it's tech for tech's sake. Which is just silly.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582785 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Dhin Xar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#192 Originally by: Sir Juri

Dont get Vista fine rest of the world will have to.


Someone appears to not know why Microsoft is getting hit with Antitrust lawsuits left and right.]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582786 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Sir Juri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#191 Originally by: Maya Rkell
No, it will not. The figures simply do not add up to going with Vista at the point, and I don't regret taking a stance which was correct given what we knew at the time.

And the 360 is a waste of cash without a HDTV. You might as well get an XBox...the graphical difference, compared side by side is minimal on a normal TV. On a HDTV the difference is phenomenal, yes. But ONLY on the HDTV.

As for Vista and Eve,it boils down to the greater good for the greater number. And that does NOT mean DX10/Vista at this point.


I waste my cash on the 360 cause I dont have an HD TV today? wow you know nothing! Only for the HD TV? what this boils down to is that you maya got problems, yes mayor problems.

You and your stances and morals, not to mention so called exisitng "figures"Rolling Eyes. And you clearly dont know what your talking about. Dont get Vista fine rest of the world will have to. And most will enjoy it, XP 4TW? Laughing

*sigh* stop whining!



Im a noob, bear with me :P]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582825 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#190 Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: digitalwanderer
Originally by: pyr8t
Actually, VISTA presents huge leaps and bounds for gamers. You'll want to get VISTA because it will be the most stable OS in the windows line.

I wont go into too many details, but extremetech.com has a pretty good write up on what VISTA will do.

I'm glad CCP is utilizing the graphics DX10 offers rather than cater to those with crap systms...



Any O/S that has to unload the GUI to leave enough system memory/video card resources free to run a game isn't exactly getting my hopes up here,but it's just me....Razz



Oh yea, don't even get me STARTED on that. Hopefully it'll be optional in some way..or otherwise that cuts my gaming time to the periods when I can exclusively be out of contact (no IM, etc.) which is about 1/3 of what I currently play.



Dunno how that might affect playing the game in windowed mode or have ventrilo/teamspeak running in the background...Or even those that have a dual monitor setup wich the second monitor can be used to browse the net while playing eve on the main monitor...the fancy GUI might have to be disabled in those situations.

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 22:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582826 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#189 Originally by: digitalwanderer
Originally by: pyr8t
Actually, VISTA presents huge leaps and bounds for gamers. You'll want to get VISTA because it will be the most stable OS in the windows line.

I wont go into too many details, but extremetech.com has a pretty good write up on what VISTA will do.

I'm glad CCP is utilizing the graphics DX10 offers rather than cater to those with crap systms...



Any O/S that has to unload the GUI to leave enough system memory/video card resources free to run a game isn't exactly getting my hopes up here,but it's just me....Razz


Oh yea, don't even get me STARTED on that. Hopefully it'll be optional in some way..or otherwise that cuts my gaming time to the periods when I can exclusively be out of contact (no IM, etc.) which is about 1/3 of what I currently play.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:59:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582870 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#188 Originally by: Sir Juri
Originally by: Maya Rkell
The key there is "sooner or later". It's going to be "later" for a LOT of people. Late enough that making this cycle DX9c just makes SENSE to myself and some others in this thread.



Actually it will go faster then you try to make it look. For "ALOT" of ppl. And if EVE is going to stay alive and not just alive but be a mayor player as it is today it will need to go for Vista/directx10 sooner or later. Might asswell be "sooner". For me it makes "sense", And I bet it will for you to one day.


(in the meanwhile you can still play the game.)

Here is an example-

I got an Xbox 360, its great im sorry to say I dont have an HD TV but I know one day I will.

Should I be ****ed at ppl that have an HD TV? or be ****ed a Microsoft to make a console that will make "sense" for me when I do get a HD TV?

Today playing COD2 I got a dissadvantage against some snipers some times due to worse res*. So lets talk about EVE today with frame rate, ping etc. What should we do about all this? make a game fitting to your wallet?Rolling Eyes

I say this thread "Begone"!



Huge difference in your example and you know it,since even when using a regular TV,the actual graphical content is still the same no matter what,an HDTV just allows higher resolutions,wich doesn't require any work from the developer it other than adding that choice in the game options....
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:58:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582877 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#187 Originally by: pyr8t
Actually, VISTA presents huge leaps and bounds for gamers. You'll want to get VISTA because it will be the most stable OS in the windows line.

I wont go into too many details, but extremetech.com has a pretty good write up on what VISTA will do.

I'm glad CCP is utilizing the graphics DX10 offers rather than cater to those with crap systms...



Any O/S that has to unload the GUI to leave enough system memory/video card resources free to run a game isn't exactly getting my hopes up here,but it's just me....Razz


As for crap systems,we'll the current crap system i'm running has an athlon FX60 with 2 gig's of ram and a pair of 7800 GT's in SLI,backed up by 2 maxtor atlas 5's 10 000 RPM scsi hardrives in raid 0,so there goes your argument right out the door.... Wink
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:55:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582888 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#186
And the 360 is a waste of cash without a HDTV. You might as well get an XBox...the graphical difference, compared side by side is minimal on a normal TV. On a HDTV the difference is phenomenal, yes. But ONLY on the HDTV.

As for Vista and Eve,it boils down to the greater good for the greater number. And that does NOT mean DX10/Vista at this point.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582890 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Sir Juri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#185 Originally by: Maya Rkell
The key there is "sooner or later". It's going to be "later" for a LOT of people. Late enough that making this cycle DX9c just makes SENSE to myself and some others in this thread.



Actually it will go faster then you try to make it look. For "ALOT" of ppl. And if EVE is going to stay alive and not just alive but be a mayor player as it is today it will need to go for Vista/directx10 sooner or later. Might asswell be "sooner". For me it makes "sense", And I bet it will for you to one day.


(in the meanwhile you can still play the game.)

Here is an example-

I got an Xbox 360, its great im sorry to say I dont have an HD TV but I know one day I will.

Should I be ****ed at ppl that have an HD TV? or be ****ed a Microsoft to make a console that will make "sense" for me when I do get a HD TV?

Today playing COD2 I got a dissadvantage against some snipers some times due to worse res*. So lets talk about EVE today with frame rate, ping etc. What should we do about all this? make a game fitting to your wallet?Rolling Eyes

I say this thread "Begone"!



Im a noob, bear with me :P]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582913 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#184
For companies using DRM to lock down games? Yes. For gamers? No. And saying at THIS stage what Vista will be the most stable OS....lmao. The CRAP here is what you're saying.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:39:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582965 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by pyr8t]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#183
I wont go into too many details, but extremetech.com has a pretty good write up on what VISTA will do.

I'm glad CCP is utilizing the graphics DX10 offers rather than cater to those with crap systms...
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:36:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582979 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#182 Edited by: digitalwanderer on 14/04/2006 21:33:59
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 14/04/2006 21:33:14

Quote:


wow so many "enter"!

isnt needed perhaps, point? in short, fact is we will all sooner or later run with Vista. Same with all new games. Heck same with broadband and if you dont upgrade well this is an MMORPG and unless you want it to die sooner then later then...



Sooner or later i'm sure we will,but that isn't worth the trouble of keeping the vast majority of the graphical upgrades that the game will go thru a DX10/vista only exclusive,even more so because it'll take at least 1824 months after it's released for a decent sized user base with vista/DX10 cards to happen....Made worse by the fact that current generation graphics cards do have the speed and features to make eve look amazing,but isn't being used at all....


]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:33:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5582991 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=7#181
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:31:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583011 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Sir Juri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#180 Originally by: digitalwanderer
Originally by: Sir Juri
Dumb thread, come on maya get real. The pickup rate will be "faster"! Also their will be TONS of reasons to get Vista. I suggest you read up on it.


So you will be a second class citizen? enjoy rest of the world will upgrade and tbh we are talking about what? 2007-2008! I dont know about you but Il sure as hell upgrade my comp by then.


(your not the first one to whine about the rate computers gets old.) However this will insure that the game will stay alive and keep getting new subscibers and new content.

(sarcasm you? sorry to say no!Rolling Eyes)



It has never happened as fast as any marketing company says it will,the proof of that is in past releases of DX,wich took years to fully use the features in games that each evolution of the DX spec added over the previous version,even more so now that it's grown big enough in terms of feature support,wich is way more extensive than any previous version,to the point of requiring ever bigger development teams to complete games in a half decent amount of time...


Why do you think that games just a few years ago could be made in not much over a year,and now they're up to 45 years in terms of developement time when started from scratch,or that even something as simple as video card drivers growing from under a meg in size in 99/2000,when GPU's had only 10 million transistors at most to over 20 megs these days,precisely because of all the features added over the years in GPU's,wich the best/fastest ones right now on the market have nearly 400 million transistors running at over 600 mhz clock speeds...All in just 6 years.


In short,DX10 or vista isn't needed to make the updated eve look like those EON pictures,while still using DX9 cards and automatically be usable to a lot of people from the word go since most have those cards in their systems right now....










wow so many "enter"!

isnt needed perhaps, point? in short, fact is we will all sooner or later run with Vista. Same with all new games. Heck same with broadband and if you dont upgrade well this is an MMORPG and unless you want it to die sooner then later then...



Im a noob, bear with me :P]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:23:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583051 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#179 Originally by: Sir Juri
Dumb thread, come on maya get real. The pickup rate will be "faster"! Also their will be TONS of reasons to get Vista. I suggest you read up on it.


So you will be a second class citizen? enjoy rest of the world will upgrade and tbh we are talking about what? 2007-2008! I dont know about you but Il sure as hell upgrade my comp by then.


(your not the first one to whine about the rate computers gets old.) However this will insure that the game will stay alive and keep getting new subscibers and new content.

(sarcasm you? sorry to say no!Rolling Eyes)



It has never happened as fast as any marketing company says it will,the proof of that is in past releases of DX,wich took years to fully use the features in games that each evolution of the DX spec added over the previous version,even more so now that it's grown big enough in terms of feature support,wich is way more extensive than any previous version,to the point of requiring ever bigger development teams to complete games in a half decent amount of time...


Why do you think that games just a few years ago could be made in not much over a year,and now they're up to 45 years in terms of developement time when started from scratch,or that even something as simple as video card drivers growing from under a meg in size in 99/2000,when GPU's had only 10 million transistors at most to over 20 megs these days,precisely because of all the features added over the years in GPU's,wich the best/fastest ones right now on the market have nearly 400 million transistors running at over 600 mhz clock speeds...All in just 6 years.


In short,DX10 or vista isn't needed to make the updated eve look like those EON pictures,while still using DX9 cards and automatically be usable to a lot of people from the word go since most have those cards in their systems right now....









]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583084 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Sir Juri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#178 Edited by: Sir Juri on 14/04/2006 21:14:10
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I have. I see a distinct reduction in functionlity for myself thanks to a lot of the perfectly legal things I do being impossible under Vista, and that it duplicates, badly, a lot of functions I have perfectly good programs for. It could never be my primary OS for those reasons.

Again, you need to read up on the market research agency's work on the uptake of Vista, because it REALLY dosn't look good. And even if it WAS even as quick as XP over 2k, that still does not excuse using the exclusionary nature of DX10/Vista to create a two-tier community.

This is not a "computers get old" whine, this is a "Putting all the sparkly into a Vista/DX10 ONLY client is bad for the community". You can futureproof all you like, if you lose a lot of the community today because you tell them "you can't have good things", then tomorrow ceases to matter.


You clearly dont know what your talking about. I live in a world where XP/directX is a force of nature where do you live Alice? You still use Windows 95? or play games with Linux?
Laughing

PS: their is a reason Vista has been pushed back a million times.
edit; you got points but they wont matter when the end product hit the shelves.



Im a noob, bear with me :P]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:13:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583092 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#177
Again, you need to read up on the market research agency's work on the uptake of Vista, because it REALLY dosn't look good. And even if it WAS even as quick as XP over 2k, that still does not excuse using the exclusionary nature of DX10/Vista to create a two-tier community.

This is not a "computers get old" whine, this is a "Putting all the sparkly into a Vista/DX10 ONLY client is bad for the community". You can futureproof all you like, if you lose a lot of the community today because you tell them "you can't have good things", then tomorrow ceases to matter.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 21:02:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583150 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Sir Juri]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#176

So you will be a second class citizen? enjoy rest of the world will upgrade and tbh we are talking about what? 2007-2008! I dont know about you but Il sure as hell upgrade my comp by then.


(your not the first one to whine about the rate computers gets old.) However this will insure that the game will stay alive and keep getting new subscibers and new content.

(sarcasm you? sorry to say no!Rolling Eyes)



Im a noob, bear with me :P]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 20:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583175 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#175 Originally by: Maya Rkell
digitalwanderer, let me repeat, thatis NOT what the EON magazine article says.
It says that the core of the updates will be DX10/Vista ONLY.



That's just dumb then....Completely skipping the graphics possibilities of an entire generation of DX,wich has the capability to make eve look 5 times better than it currently does,as the current version still uses only DX8 lvl features for the most part,pretty much every user has a DX9 card right now in their system,so the majority can enjoy the vastly improved graphics that DX9 can offer,to hop on to the next DX which will take at least a couple of years for the majority to have vista/DX10 cards in their systems....


Like i said,very dumb,unless they're receiving something to push Vista/DX10 ASAP like that....



]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 20:23:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583313 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#174 It says that the core of the updates will be DX10/Vista ONLY.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 19:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583465 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#173 Edited by: digitalwanderer on 14/04/2006 19:36:39
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Except for the minor fact that that CCP are doing the upgrade, per Eon, for X10/Vista. And ONLY for DX10/Vista.

I agree with you. CCP dosn't.


Odds are more than likely that it's just a recompiled version of the client that's been tested to run on vista and DX10 so that those early enthusiasts that hop on vista right away,can play eve right off the bat...


Grphics wise,it'll likely use the same graphics as those with DX9c cards,since while i don't know what made it in as far as the final DX10 spec goes,apart from unified pixel/vertex shaders,wich on it's own provides no visual benefits,apart from a flexibility/efficiency advantage,the vast majority of features within DX10 are already supported in DX9 at the hardware lvl...


It's just the DX10 API that is incompatible with the DX9 API on the software side,but it's a question of making the equivalent software calls for each API,wich the same results are produced on the screen...
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 19:35:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583523 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#172
I agree with you. CCP dosn't.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 19:05:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583663 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#171 Edited by: digitalwanderer on 14/04/2006 18:58:32
Originally by: Maya Rkell
digitalwanderer, I wish.

The problem is this: If a game is made for DX10, then it will ONLY work under DX10, and Vista. Even if it dosn't use a fraction of the features. And if you want to run a DX10 game, you'll need a DX10 graphics card. Period.

It's how its designed. And THAT is why the fuss.



Maya,even if CCP were that suicidal,the main issue here from their standpoint is what can DX10 do for our game that DX9c can't,will the first generation cards actually have the performance needed to use those features over DX9c cards,ignoring the fact that those first DX10 will comes out on the high end of the price scale(so upwards of 400$ for sure),and will enough of our player base actually upgrade to those cards as well as vista to be worth the effort...


I think it's safe to say that it's a resounding no on all fronts....:)


Even if they make a version of the client that runs specifically on DX10 hardware and vista right off the bat,i'll bet anything that it'll look identical in every way to an updated version using DX9c and winxp or win 2000...


This isn't to say that they won't a version that looks far better with DX10,just that it's not something to worry about for all of 2007 and even a large part of 2008,when the situation will have changed to the point that there will be a decent amount of users with Vista as their O/S,and DX10 cards will be on their 2nd/3rd generation with decent cards in the 200$ price range.....Only then will it make sense to make a visually distinctive client using the extra features of DX10...


]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 18:58:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583699 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#170
The problem is this: If a game is made for DX10, then it will ONLY work under DX10, and Vista. Even if it dosn't use a fraction of the features. And if you want to run a DX10 game, you'll need a DX10 graphics card. Period.

It's how its designed. And THAT is why the fuss.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 18:43:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583778 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#169 Originally by: Gonada
boo-hoo

adapt or leave

so tired of hearing about poor people with crap computers whining about how new technology, os's, upgrades will limit their playing enjoyment.

vista , and dx10 will be an improvement for sure, as well as the new graphic overhaul.



Been hearing that for DX9,as well as DX8,DX7,DX6....Well,you get the point..Razz

The point is that no one has to worry about DX10 for at least 23 years,since whatever features it'll support over DX9c that actually have an impact on what you see on screen,will be relatively minor anyhow and take a long time to develop for as well...


DX9 was released on september 2002,and to this day,there isn't a single title out there,and that includes recent games like fear,that absolutely require a DX9 card to physically start and run the game...A DX 8 card with pixel shaders support 1.4(like a radeon 8500),still works,even if it means playing it at 640*480...


So we're still wating for a game that actually needs a video card that has support things like floating point shaders and displacement maps to start the game at all,with no fallbacks to DX 8 at all,and the link i showed above is that of one of the game engines that absolutely requires it,no matter wich resolution you try to run the game at...

So it's just astounding to me that nearly 4 years have passed since DX9 has been released,several generations of hardware have been released since,and a DX9 card still isn't the minimum requirement to run the most recent games currently on retail shelves...


All this is to point out that it's basically nuts to worry about having a DX10 card as soon as vista is released.... DX10 specific features that have any bearing on visual quality will take time to develop,and that's assuming the first gen DX10 cards actually have those extra features built in,with enough performance to be usable in the real gaming environment,and not just to say that they're certified DX10 or as a bullet point in a spec sheet or ad in a magazine,or some cute in house tech demo,as i've seen it happen far to often...


Rolling Eyes
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 18:38:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583810 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Karol Kei]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#168 Originally by: Gonada
vista , and dx10 will be an improvement for sure, as well as the new graphic overhaul.

DO you have any idea how Vista will be like? Vista is a hu-ge step back wards.

Why can't people read up? Even just a bit? It's not that much to ask in my opinion.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 18:36:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583815 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Dhin Xar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#167 Fri, 14 Apr 2009 18:30:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583845 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Victor Valka]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#166 Edited by: Victor Valka on 14/04/2006 18:24:49
Originally by: Gonada
boo-hoo

adapt or leave

so tired of hearing about poor people with crap computers whining about how new technology, os's, upgrades will limit their playing enjoyment.

vista , and dx10 will be an improvement for sure, as well as the new graphic overhaul.



Oh. Well that is that, I'm in the pit now.

You little, arrogant, self-centered brat! The fact that you can fork over a couple of thousand dollars every time some game developer does the Jedi mind-trick and says "Look! Shiny stuff! Now be a good consumer and go buy a new rig!" does not make you any better then me or anyone else with a lesser PC then yours! Get a grip, boy!

This is exactly the problem Maya is concerned about. Anyone who can't (or simply doesn't want to) fork the money over for a new video card and OS will be second class to someone who can if the DX10 client is better then the upgraded DX9c client. That is a major problem. I you fail to see it you are an idiot.

And guess what?! I don't think it is bloody fair that CCP would force their player-base this way.

And I bet you that the majority of the player-base could do with the current graphic engine if CCP would break their habit and FIX THE STUFF THEY ALREADY HAVE before making new (and probably broken) stuff.

And now, if you will excuse me, I'll go play Digger.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 18:22:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5583894 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#165
This is an inclusionary/exclusionay principle.

Building using DX9c is inclusionary. Anyone who can meet the minimum specs can play, and you can add shiny according to, and even beyond (using driver extensions) the DX9c specification. Everyone will immediately benefit.

Building using DX10/Vista is exclusionary. You require Vista. You require a DX10 graphica card. This cuts out an immense portion of the playerbase! And you STILL can't add things into the DX10 client which are not possible for the DX9c client either, unless you want a REAL two-class system ("Full system asteroid belts - you may only warp here with the Vista client").

Excluding customers from the "real experience" is not a good thing. At all.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 16:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584400 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Gonada]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#164
adapt or leave

so tired of hearing about poor people with crap computers whining about how new technology, os's, upgrades will limit their playing enjoyment.

vista , and dx10 will be an improvement for sure, as well as the new graphic overhaul.



-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 16:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584550 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by digitalwanderer]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#163 Originally by: Tolon
If CCP are doing a graphical overhaul for EVE, why not go for the newest DirectX?

I've seen the best that DX9.0c has to offer and in my book it don't cut it anymore. I want something new and i don't mind buying a new PC to get the new spinkee OS and new EVE graphics.



Err...http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml


That's what DX9c looks like when really used to it's limits,and likely still too demanding for even dual video card setups like mine for high resolutions antics in combination with AA/AF use...

As far as DX 10 goes,the only thing i've heard is that they want to unify pixel/vertex shaders at the software lvl,since it's all 32 bit data anyhow....Ati's hardware aproach is that they'll create a shader processor that can calculate vertex and pixel shader data within the same processor and allow the developer to use those capabilities are they see fit...


For instance,the GPU might have 64 shader units in total,all unified within the same GPU,but for that specific game,a given developer will use 16 for vertex work,while the remaining 48 will end up for pixel shading calculations...Another developer might end up using the reverse for their artwork assets,by making the scenes very geometry intensive,but relatively light on the shaders dept...In either case,you'll always get the max performance that the architecture can give since it doesn't care wich type it's doing,as long as all the functional units are being used...


And for the record,a GPU architecture does not need to be unified at the hardware lvl to be DX10 certified,and i think it was david kirk that stated in a fairly recent interview that they're still going for seperate vertex and pixel shader units for their upcoming GPU releases,as they believe that there's still more room for improvements without going the unified hardware aproach as ATI has done with the xenos chip(X box 360)...


Also,the aero glass feature in vista works just fine with DX9.0c last i heard..
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 16:01:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584653 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Galk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#162
Answer, upgrade... sounds rather firmilar.

Corps that do that also, i could see it, be narrow minded to think just about me (the finger ect) so i take your point, people could be futher excluded on the ever growing list, thats not good... especialy when it concerns out of game size of wallet issues in many cases.

Senisble points, these things i could see happening, neither are good.
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:59:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584664 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#161
There is EVERY difference between DX9c and DX10. If I want a better experience in Oblivion, I can just upgrade my graphics card. NO graphics card will let me run a DX10 game on 2k/XP. Vista is very unpaletable to many people, including me, because it offers us no more (or in many cases LESS because of its DRM - we will be unable to do perfectly legal things under Vista which were possible under 2k/XP) and it's wrong to ask to upgrade JUST for Eve.

To be competitive, you will need the "good" client. This is absolutely clear, as I've said before, from looking at MUD's with two tiers of client. Graphics don't matter to me as long as nobody has a crushing advantage. And the new client, which will be less laggy and have a better UI will allow the users to have a crishing advantage. There WILL be discrimination. There WILL be a second class of players because they cannpt run the new client.

The only BS is comming from you, because you refuse to realise that this scenario has allready been played out in a number of MUD's. The experiment HAS been done, and the answer is in - there will be two classes of Eve player if this goes ahead.


Jarnis McPieksu, I'm sure there are. But I'm not one of them, and neither are the other people who are making reasonable points in this thread. Evem if the update is launche in 9 months time, then DX9c is STILL the way to go. There are no games, as said before, which really push the shiny, and there are ways to go beyond DX9c to offer the real shiny possible ANYWAY. All DX10 does is to cut off the majority of the Eve population from using those graphics for some YEARS.

It is CCP who are contemplating using Vista, and it is to them which the charge of doing something which is not advantagous to the majority of their users is placed. BY the time Vista is the majority, the NEXT cycle of engine upgrades will have begun.

Aiming as high as possible is, as j0 as has pointed out the EQII syndrome. It's one of the reasons why EQII is doing so comparatively poorly compared to WoW. THat you want to make Eve the next EQII...dosn't make SENSE to me.

That there is a small minority catass population - and it is allways the same people - who upgrade every 6 months means absolutely nothing compared to the greater good of the greater number of the very diverse Eve populations.

Stop thinking of yourself all the time and consider what it actually MEANS for Eve. Because a DX10/Vista upgrade is NOT good at this point in time.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:58:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584669 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Jarnis McPieksu]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#160
Look, guys - if the graphics upgrade was to be launched _today_, DX9 would be the way to go, and it would look shiny when compared to other games.
However, since it's not going to be launched for a while yet, probably not for an year, aiming for today's 'shiny' standard, to be released 12 months or more from now is a nice way to ensure that EVERYONE who is whining today about this whole DX10/Vista crap will be whining 'whaa eve graphics upgrade sux, game XXX is much shinyer'. Heck, if EVE devs had aimed to '1997' graphics standards when they started EVE development, the game would look utter **** today.

PC graphics keep evolving. MS has, in it's infinite wisdom, decided that DX10 is a MAJOR overhaul, and currently claims 'no DX10 for XP'. I personally expect it might change later, but it's MS you want to whine to, if you dont want to buy Vista for DX10 and/or don't want to buy new videocard ever in the future. However, as soon as it's demonstrated that new shiny DX10 hardware plus Vista's DX10 equals Mucho Shiny, all whines are irrelevant. You can either buy new stuff, or stay in the past and complain how your crappy computer can't run this and that. Exactly like the Voodoo 3 morons whined few years back when games no longer supported their obsolete junk, while the world went on with GeForce 3s and 4s (and Radeon 8500s).

I'm sure CCP won't gank themselves - you can keep running EVE with your current hardware and without Vista for a long time to come. However, new shiny sometimes requires new hardware, and you can either live with it, or hop off the nearest pier.

CCP should aim as high as possible for their graphics upgrade, so EVE stays 'current' and draws new players as far into future as possible. Aiming for crybabies and their obsolete hardware would be silly, and instead of doing one big upgrade for years to come, CCP would need to be redoing the shiny every year to keep it running at 'max' with every crybaby's crappy 50$ videocard, without going 'too far' and 'asking for too much'. You can always turn down the shiny if your obsolete computer isn't up to it - it doesn't require that the development should suddenly not support new shiny that some people can run, just because you are too poor to get the neccessary hardware.

Go CCP, make my uber vidcard whimper under your shiny. I'll buy a new one, and cheer when ya make that one scream in terror too :)

- Jarnis McPieksu
Industrial Operative, Beagle Corp [KAOS EMPIRE]
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:44:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584737 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Malthros Zenobia]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#159 Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 14/04/2006 15:44:50
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/04/2006 15:36:04
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/04/2006 15:28:29
It seems to me that you're reading unwaranted assumptions from your own bias into what I wrote. You are incorrect. I have explained, several times and in detail the probable consequences. You evident cannot read them.

You WILL be a second-class citizen with the old engine. If the new engine has better frame rates, if the new engine will allow you to enable effects, if the new UI is better...all these things will mean that corps will start excluding people who do not run the "good" client. This is NOT speculation - this is precisely what has happened in MUD's with seperate 2D and 2 1/2D clients before.


Incidentally, I am Jewish and I suggest you withdraw the **** references.

Progress does NOT mean making an engine which the majority of your users will NOT be able to use. There is plenty of scope within DX9c, as has been explained many times in this thread, for a world-class graphics engine.

You applaud CCP's efforts to slap the majority of their players in the face, to spit at them ns tell them they they're not good enough because they don't want to install a bloatware IS which has NO advantage for 99% of home users over 2k/XP ONLY for a game. Technology for the pure sake of technology, which is precisely what going with DX10/Vista for an engine update at this time is worse than pointless (And moreover, it is wrong).

As j0 has noted, going with Vista at this stage is going to be highly counter-productive to Eve...I suggest you read this thread rather than just the first post and using your own predudices and bias to see thing shwich were never said, never intended and you twist and misinterpret so you can have a good flame and insult people.

Bring on people who can read and comprehend. Because you're clearly not in tht group.

There are no good reasons I can see not to make an updated DX9c client which will benefit the vast majority of the users of Eve, rather than a Vista/DX10 client which will benefit the minority and by the time the majority of users can use it, it will be in need of a further update anyway...all that serves is to deprive the majority of users of deacent graphics for some years.

(who does ALSO work in said industry)

(Hi Kids! Yes, step and and witness the the techophile vs technology-as-a-tool debate within the games industry ugh)



I stayed home from work today because I'm sick (it being good friday was just a bonus really), so I'll go into detail on this later, but for now:


Maya, quit whining. Goddamn.

Yes, right off the bat, alot of people aren't going to be able to use the new DX10/vista engine, but some of us will, because we're gaming nuts like that. Over time, more and more people will be using Vista, and DX10 video cards. *****ing that some people will be second-class citizens would be like me *****ing to Bethledesa because my raedon 9800 can't run HDR+AA and everything else at max settings for Oblivion, while my brther's 1-month old, best gaming PC money can build atm, PC can.

You won't *need* vista to play EVE, you won't *need* dx10 to play.

If you care so much about graphics, then EVE must be boring for you. The game could be made using the privateer engine and I'd still love it personally. The fact that it'll look damn sweet for people (eventually) is a bonus.

edit: I'm not going to re-read to cut out the quotes I need, but Maya, the people who will be 'second class' citizens are the same people who have play a new game on there old PC with lower settings. You're making such a massive deal out of something so minor that you're making me wish this was a T2/HAC whine thread because those are closer to the truth than your second class citizen BS.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.

RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584753 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#158 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/04/2006 15:39:32
Galk, that part of the problem is not really CCP treating you as a second class citizen, it will be Corperations treating you as one.

"Old client? No, we don't recruit people using that"

But if the old client is no longer updated, then...the answer to support queries is going to be "upgrade".

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:39:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584761 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Galk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#157 Edited by: Galk on 14/04/2006 15:38:26
Originally by: Suze'Rain
You're concerned people will make them a "second class citizen" because you're using the older graphics engine. well, what can I say, If you're insecure enough over peer pressure about wither you're running HDRI and 1600x1200 makes you feel you're going to be villified into a "second class citizen", then I feel truly sorry for you. Are you also ashamed because your wearing last season's fashion? are you mocked because your car is'nt the newest 2006 model? Will you feel that you must huddle around the burning oil drum in the ghetto because you're only using a CD player, not an Ipod, fearing when the fashion polise will round you up and send you to be gassed?
Get a grip.




Welcome to todays plastic society, your not far off with all, or atleast most of the above... the world these days is full of the totally self obsessed, being fueled by the media and peer pressures... personaly i grew out of them back when i was about 14-15 years old... lots don't howeverugh

Good point with progression, allways good, but not at a price, and likes said, there's a choice im happy.. ill move when im ready.... ill chap my hands to ccp on that.. aslong as they don't treat me as second class im happy. (support issues)




______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:38:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584765 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Suze'Rain]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#156 ]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:34:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584781 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#155 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/04/2006 15:28:29
It seems to me that you're reading unwaranted assumptions from your own bias into what I wrote. You are incorrect. I have explained, several times and in detail the probable consequences. You evident cannot read them.

You WILL be a second-class citizen with the old engine. If the new engine has better frame rates, if the new engine will allow you to enable effects, if the new UI is better...all these things will mean that corps will start excluding people who do not run the "good" client. This is NOT speculation - this is precisely what has happened in MUD's with seperate 2D and 2 1/2D clients before.


Incidentally, I am Jewish and I suggest you withdraw the **** references.

Progress does NOT mean making an engine which the majority of your users will NOT be able to use. There is plenty of scope within DX9c, as has been explained many times in this thread, for a world-class graphics engine.

You applaud CCP's efforts to slap the majority of their players in the face, to spit at them ns tell them they they're not good enough because they don't want to install a bloatware IS which has NO advantage for 99% of home users over 2k/XP ONLY for a game. Technology for the pure sake of technology, which is precisely what going with DX10/Vista for an engine update at this time is worse than pointless (And moreover, it is wrong).

As j0 has noted, going with Vista at this stage is going to be highly counter-productive to Eve...I suggest you read this thread rather than just the first post and using your own predudices and bias to see thing shwich were never said, never intended and you twist and misinterpret so you can have a good flame and insult people.

Bring on people who can read and comprehend. Because you're clearly not in tht group.

There are no good reasons I can see not to make an updated DX9c client which will benefit the vast majority of the users of Eve, rather than a Vista/DX10 client which will benefit the minority and by the time the majority of users can use it, it will be in need of a further update anyway...all that serves is to deprive the majority of users of deacent graphics for some years.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584813 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Suze'Rain]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#154 any possible progress with eve, in any context.

You're concerned people will make them a "second class citizen" because you're using the older graphics engine. well, what can I say, If you're insecure enough over peer pressure about wither you're running HDRI and 1600x1200 makes you feel you're going to be villified into a "second class citizen", then I feel truly sorry for you. Are you also ashamed because your wearing last season's fashion? are you mocked because your car is'nt the newest 2006 model? Will you feel that you must huddle around the burning oil drum in the ghetto because you're only using a CD player, not an Ipod, fearing when the fashion polise will round you up and send you to be gassed?
Get a grip.
Progress is inevitable, or perhaps we should feature lock eve? I know, lets go back to pre-Castor, make sure that eve will run on DX8 and a 500mhz Pentium, and let's make the OS Win98.

That's a great idea. Who needs progress anyway?

No.

I applaud CCP's efforts to constantly push the boundaries of their game. yes, they screw up, yes, bugs get in, yes, I'd like to smack 'em around the head on occasions. but if that is the price to pay for a game that manages to evolve, develop, and continue to be a successful title in the face of the next generation of MMOs in development, then I pay that price.
I don't expect to be able to use half the next generation engine's capability at first. but if it gives us the opportunity to continue playing and continue to receive an influx of fresh blood (because, let's face it, how many gamers would look at Ultima Online , were it available today, and go "cor! must play that!"...

Content must progress for any title in the industry to remain succesful, and in that, CCPs' business practice is forward-thinking and reassuring to me. if they were'nt looking to the future, then I'd say they were idiots. As it is, it's the people who refuse to progress who are in that category.

Bring on processor-frying content. Look to the future, never become stagnant, because when we stagnate, we die. and the industry is already far too conservative, ruled by the whim of marketting and media perception.



Suzerain
(who does work in said games industry)

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:15:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584877 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Galk]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#153

Aslong as i can still use what i have to run eve, aka a client as it is, i won't be blinking an eyelid.

I realy couldn't give toss about any 2nd class citizen type.

I still play grandprix legends and tfc.. both are 7 and 8 years oldVery Happy

People try to force that crap by taking any slight oppertunity to slam up their system specs in every thread going here and just about everywhere on the net... like your suposed to give a dam.

Ohh and before you think 'bitter ehh'

Not realy, i was once one of those idiots that went out and handed over 400 notes for a graphics card the day it came out.. what an absolute waste, everytime.

Ill upgrade in due time, aslong as their's that option to continue as is till that time, i don't realy care.

Ill just ignore the million and one threads from the peen bunch telling me how wonderfull it all is.

It's kinda do what makes you happy i guess, wasting money on computers ain't one of them for me anymore.

Having said that though, Maya i admire your morale crusade atleast... if you feel that way, then shout and shout some more.
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 15:08:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5584911 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Berak FalCheran]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#152
In short: Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 14:46:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585000 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=6#151
The point being made with OGL was the entire "you can ONLY do the neat stuff by switching to DX10/Vista". The scope within DX9c and OGL2 disproves that.

Further arguing over, when the idea wasn't actually to change but to point out that there were options is futile.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 14:40:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585037 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#149 2. Yes, so? DX10's improvements are nearly entirely in D3D10.
3. Heh. Because two of the major engines being sold to other companies use it, it's "dead". Right.
4. OGL and D3D have pushed each other. Competition is GOOD.
5. Assumption on your part.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 14:25:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585106 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Kornelia Shedim]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#148
Originally by: kieron

CCP will not charge any fees for expansions, including any graphic engine updates. We are already planning for DX10/Vista and aim to integrate the graphic changes into the client in such a way that EVE will be fully compatible in both directions.


nuff said.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 14:20:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585133 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by GouldFish]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#147
1. The coders know DX better then openGL, or know no openGL at all.

2. No matter what happens DirectX is going to be in the Game, it powers the sound and the input.

3. openGL is for all intents and perposes dead in the retail game market. only Doom3 and quake 3 use it.

4. DX3D has been pushing the GX market into new things and better cards.

5. They don;t want to.

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 14:19:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585139 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Hunters Presence]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#146 Quote:
personally not surprised at all with the choice to use direct x 10.....
its future proof, will allow cutting edge graphics(there are some very nifty new features that fit perfectly into a space sim)and most importantly ITS MUCH FASTER..


The untapped areas of DirectX9c could completely revolutionise the look of the game. None of those 'cutting edge' graphics are needed.
________________
Lead Games Programmer
Quasit-Rushyo Games]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 13:41:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585306 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#145 Originally by: Xianthar
personally not surprised at all with the choice to use direct x 10.....
its future proof, will allow cutting edge graphics(there are some very nifty new features that fit perfectly into a space sim)and most importantly ITS MUCH FASTER..


Unproven. There is absolutely No reason to beleieve at this point that DX10 will be any form of performance monster. The way it is structured suggests it, but we simply don't know what kind of overhead Vista will have on the system, and I would tend to be very pesamistic in that regard.

Very few games, even HL2, even begin to push the boundaries of what can even be done with DX9.0c, and we don't need an engine which actually uses 5% of the features of DX10, but still demands it. As they said themselves in Eon, they are going for it because it's a convenient break rather than any technical reason..and I think that's plain WRONG.

Yes, Vista is the "future". The FAR future. If they revisit the situation in years, they MIGHT just have by then a slight majority of their users on Vista, and they should write Trinity 3.0 in DX10. Not Trinity 2.0.

Cutting the majority of your users off and telling them that they will be second class citizens because they don't want to have to buy the latest piece of bloatware OS is not a good descision. Period.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 13:16:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585410 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Tiny Carlos]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#144

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 11:30:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585886 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Uggster]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#143

You think think getting ships back lost due to bugs is hard now ?


"Dear Bill,
My Eagle was fitted with all T2 gear and should have been able to pop a frigate at 200k easy, however I was unable to even click on the approching ship cos it seemed to me (in the heat of action) that the GFX engine was not regestering the relative position of the incoming...blah.blah,blah,blah"

Good Luck Laughing
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 11:24:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585923 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Drizit]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#142 Edited by: Drizit on 14/04/2006 11:13:00
IHMO, I would feel sorry for those who jump straight into Vista as soon as it comes out so they can have all those snazzy graphics.

Just remembering back to all those initial releases of M$ operating systems dating back to Windows 3.11 as it seems people have a short memory.

Windows 3.11 - Released with over 200 known bugs.
Windows 95 - Released with over 1000 known bugs.
Windows 98 - Released with about 2000 known bugs.
Windows 2000 - Released with untold known bugs.
Windows XP - Released also with undisclosed known bugs.
Windows Vista - ? Bugs to be arranged.

Sorry but even if I had the cash to load out on an expensive new rig and a copy of Vista. I won't be upgrading anytime soon.

If CCP have plans to support Vista when it comes out, they will have their work cut out trying to discern what are Eve client bugs and what are Vista bugs. Players still running XP shouldn't expect support to be as fast as normal.


--

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 11:12:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5585983 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Tolon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#141 Originally by: Xianthar
Edited by: Xianthar on 14/04/2006 08:47:36
personally not surprised at all with the choice to use direct x 10.....
its future proof, will allow cutting edge graphics(there are some very nifty new features that fit perfectly into a space sim)and most importantly ITS MUCH FASTER....they have done away with all the garbage that is in the earlier direct 3d api's and the WGF libraries, if you've ever written anything using them you will completely understand why, even from an ease of programming standpoint, CCP made this choice. if fact as i understand it, WGF and all earlier versions on directx are GONE....anything written using them runs through a software emulation layer meaning they will run slower than on win xp(probably)....i.e. direct x 9.0 is dead.

-xian

EDIT: grammer


Amen
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 10:26:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5586136 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by querty]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#140 Edited by: querty on 14/04/2006 08:48:58
Well if is that a big jump in tecnology(DirectX) rewrite the eve code to OpenGLRolling Eyesand then everybody is happy how about that?
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 08:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5586418 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Xianthar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#139 its future proof, will allow cutting edge graphics(there are some very nifty new features that fit perfectly into a space sim)and most importantly ITS MUCH FASTER....they have done away with all the garbage that is in the earlier direct 3d api's and the WGF libraries, if you've ever writting anything using them you will completely understand why even from an ease of programming standpoint. if fact as i understand it, WGF and all earlier versions on directx are GONE....anything written using them runs through a software emulation layer meaning they will run slower than on win xp....i.e. direct x 9.0 is dead.

-xian
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 08:43:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5586437 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Xianthar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#138 Originally by: Snake Jankins
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 13/04/2006 05:22:39
There is a difference between saying that current hardware 'vista compatible' and if that hardware really fully supports DX-10 graphics (in hardware).
I mean I and many others still use a DirectX 8 graphics cards under DirectX 9.0c e.g. the GeForce 4/Ti series.
Works with DirectX 9.0c, but some non-crucial functions are missing or emulated in software, so real DirectX 9 games doesn't look that good and/or run really crappy.

edit: Since I see Vista as an effort to get even more control over the software market and get more control over the user, I won't switch to Vista anyway, unless I'm really forced to do it at some point. I wish M$ bad luck with Vista. Cool


Vista compatability has nothing to do with direct x10, unless they have changed their mind in the last month the aero-glass GUI is written in direct x 9.0c

-xian
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 08:32:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5586501 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Xianthar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#137 Originally by: Eternal Fury
One thing to remember is that it will take a long time for Vista to be taken up by the general gameing public.

You should have no problem running Vista on a non-DX10 system. Remember folks, Microsoft is ALREADY branding computers as "vista compatable" with onboard graphics.

I mean comeon.. ON BOARD GRAPHICS are vista compatable.

Anything that is a seperate videocard should run fine.

Now, unless the devs make the vista compatable version of Eve NOT able to use non-DX10 graphics cards, THEN we'd be in trouble.

Thing is, Microsoft is nortorious for saying that arn't going to do something, then doing it later on.

So I can see a DX10 upgrade patch for XP not too far in the future. Probobly the summer after Vista ships.

Dunno about you guys, but I'll probobly be getting vista within 2-3 months of it shipping.


you will more than likely never see a DX10 patch for win XP, direct X10 is a almost complete re-write of direct 3d, most notably in vista the video driver modules have been moved to the user space from the kernel, something i'm sure DX10 takes full advantage of and something all you should be raving about because it will make your system much more stable(assuming its done correctly)....a DX10 "patch" for win xp would be near impossible due to the win xp drivers still living in the kernal, i.e. it would not be a patch but a complete re-write of the code just for win xp, somthing i don't see microsoft doing, why would they, they make more money if they make you buy vista, and don't lie, all of you will eventually

-xian
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 08:30:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5586509 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Xianthar]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#136 Originally by: Sadayiel
Everytime i hear or read, that someone expect the brand new designs or projects of microsoft to do an awesome thing a cold feeling runs my spine...

and TBH with currently graphic engines like half-life2 or doom3 CCP can make EVE graphics superb without a major upgrade needs


no offense m8 but saying stating that a FPS shooter engine designed for closed in areas should be used to render a space sim with massive expances is proof enough that you have no idea what your talking about...

-xian
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 08:21:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5586537 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Karol Kei]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#135 Originally by: Rocco Siffredi

I mean stop whining guys and move with the times, this gfx update is to bring eve bang up to date, and that means DX10, Vista, Ram measured in GB not MB and 64bit. Way to go CCP.

Replying without reading the thread for the loose.

I can live with tougher hardware requirements. I am due for an upgrade anyway. But this is not about me. This is about Vista and CCP making it mandatory for players of Eve.

Vista != hardware. DX10 is for Vista only. Improving graphics and making the top end rigs of tomorrow cry for mercy while trying to draw the uberest graphics ever has nothing (zero) to do with whether or not the engine is coded for DX10 or not.

Vista is evil.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 08:07:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5586573 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Kyozoku]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#134

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 04:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587045 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Vendrin]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#133 _____________________________________

Need help in Caldari Space? Join channel CCDF to give or recieve it.

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 04:09:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587046 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Hakera]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#132 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
what is HDR anyway? i dont keep up on the new marketing terms the graphics card companies invent to sell product.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_rendering



]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 03:11:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587177 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Scary Noises]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#131 Fri, 14 Apr 2009 02:57:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587225 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Viktor Fyretracker]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#130 ]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 02:33:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587288 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#129
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 01:58:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587389 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by D'onryu Shoqui]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#128 Quote:
HDR might well be worthy, but it does NOT demand DX10 to work and there is no reason to advocate a mandatory DX10 engine upgrade because of it.

theres more than one version of HDR lol and for complex HDR you need SM4.0+ which is where dx10 comes into play
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 01:10:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587566 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#127 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/04/2006 00:44:38
Because statistically, the majority won't be having Vista until 2008, that's why.

And no, you've got a absolutely high end catass rig, Well great - but you're way out at the bleeding edge of the curve, and there is no reason to even consider the very few people like you when what you are making is a game rather than (as per the source engine) an engine to sell to other game makers.

HDR might well be worthy, but it does NOT demand DX10 to work and there is no reason to advocate a mandatory DX10 engine upgrade because of it.


Rocco Siffredi, no, it is out NEXT year. According to the current projections. And this is Microsoft. The date's going to slip again. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that it'll be 12 months before it comes out. And you need a reality check if you think Vista is only 64-bit.

PS, you're plain wrong on the processor. See: http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=311666 as an example.


Gamer4liff, except when you're dealing with client lag and two-tier graphics engines which mean you need the "better" client to be "competitive". Which is precisely what's happened with every other two-client soloution in the industry.

BUT THIS IS ALL IRELEVANT.

What matters is that CCP should not cater to a minority of their playerbase at the expense of the greater part. And that'd precisely what it is. My heart bleeds for the tiny minority of people who can afford to fully upgrade their rig every 6 months and have no idea of the limits Vista and it's DRM will place on what they can DO with that rig.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 00:40:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587695 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Gamer4liff]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#126 Edited by: Gamer4liff on 14/04/2006 00:39:09
Gameplay>Graphics

THE END

That being said, I'm glad to see eve evolving again to claim another year's best graphic's award.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 00:38:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587707 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Rocco Siffredi]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#125
Vista is OUT this year, that early 2007 announcement was for the consumer version, but the vista code will be in the publics hands in november and therefore probably RTM august/september.

2gb ram is not that much. In the UK you can get 2gb for under 100 quid now, and by this time next year ill bet 4gb will be the norm. You cant now buy a new processor that isnt 64bit.

I mean stop whining guys and move with the times, this gfx update is to bring eve bang up to date, and that means DX10, Vista, Ram measured in GB not MB and 64bit. Way to go CCP.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 00:38:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587710 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Tolon]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#124 Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 13/04/2006 22:30:10
Originally by: Tolon
If CCP are doing a graphical overhaul for EVE, why not go for the newest DirectX?

I've seen the best that DX9.0c has to offer and in my book it don't cut it anymore. I want something new and i don't mind buying a new PC to get the new spinkee OS and new EVE graphics.


Because the latest and greatest isn't due out for a long time, and will have an awful uptake rate. Technology for its own sake - and you can't really describe DX10 as anything other right now - is bad.

"DX9c dosn't cut it". Uhm...so you don't think the 360 or Oblivion or any other game for the next year and quite a few beyond that cut it then? VERY few games even take full advantage of DX9c.

And YOU might not mind. But the vast supermajority do.


SengH, to the hardware manufacurers, yes. To the games companies, NO. Games compaies don't see anything until the reference boards are ready. And it still takes several weeks to hammer down the final parts of a spec, and longer than that to get the reference boards made and shipped.


You keep bringing up the "vast majority" line. I expressed my personal opinion, why don't you stick to expressing yours and not the "vast majority". Very Happy

And yes, i don't think Oblivion's graphics cut it. I think their better than most games out there, but could be improved. Before you start, i have a decent rig and can run the game at full whack with HDR on.

I ask as a small example, where is the realistic hair and clothes? Where is the realistic grass and trees? I think the current grass and trees blow, just hundreds of animated sprites. Games need to move on from just texturing or spriting most things in games. They have a flat look and it just don't cut it.

I wish to see more done with shaders to create better effects than just improved explosions and spells.

The introduction of HDR lighting is a big plus and i hope the CCP team can introduce it into the EVE engine in their next graphical update.
]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 00:23:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587764 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#123
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 00:07:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587825 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Raluque]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#122 Edited by: Raluque on 14/04/2006 00:08:50
*waves* someone capable answer this

Will the 7800/7900 series when running on XP for example be able to run the new Snazzy graphics on eve?

Simple yes or no to start with

If no .. Why?

[1]You'd need Vista ONLY[NO new GFX needed]
[2]You'd need Vista + DX10 [YES new GFX will be needed]
[3]You'd could use the *to come out* XP version of DX10[NO new GFX needed]
[4]You'd could upgrade to Vista + and use the Vista version of DX9 [NO new GFX needed]

Im hoping their is 1 or more answers in the 4.

/Thx


--------------

Care?:
Skill ETA: Indefinate

--------------

]]> Fri, 14 Apr 2009 00:04:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5587843 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by D'onryu Shoqui]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=5#121 Quote:
Wrong. DX10 cards are out.

Nvidia 7900gt and gtx are both DX10. And I don't doubt ATI has something DX10 compliant.

compliant doesnt mean they are dx10 cards and dx10 wasnt even finalized until after they came out.
you cant make a card the next dx version with a firmware update.
nvidias own site even says they are dx9.

VISTA ready doesnt mean there dx10 either.

go ask on somewhere like futuremark forums (biggest overclockers/hardware forum on the net) and you will get laughed at
]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:54:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588181 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by LUC1FER666]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=4#120
Twisted Evil
Who the **** is bob?]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:53:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588185 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=4#119
NO card currently on the market will work. Period.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:51:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588198 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Raluque]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=4#118
--------------

Care?:
Skill ETA: Indefinate

--------------

]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:48:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588209 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by SengH]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=4#117 Edited by: SengH on 13/04/2006 22:51:54
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Double TaP
Question: I've noticed people say you have to get a new graphics card to take advantage of the new system. Well I recently bought an invidia 7800 gtx... one of the best on the market i believe. I'm not going to ahve to buy a new gc to take advantage of vista dx10 right?

dx10 cards don't exist so yes, you'll need a new card. Or you could jsut be like everyone else and not upgrade at all. Nothing wrong with how eve looks now.


Wrong. DX10 cards are out.

Nvidia 7900gt and gtx are both DX10. And I don't doubt ATI has something DX10 compliant.


7900GT/GTX are most definitatly not DX10


Actually, they are. There will be a firmware update when DX10 comes out and the 7900 and better cards will be able to use the new Dx 10 features.



So your telling me their gonna magically "flash" the firmware to make separate PS/VS unified? Or that the Video Card GPUs are actually partially FPGA which they can change gates on the fly? (if so the'd make bank selling FPGAs that run @ 500+ mhz)

Dont mix up "Vista-Ready" with DX 10. "Vista-Ready" just means it can run Aero Glass which uses DX9.0L(basically DX9 for vista). There arent any cards publically available atm that can run D3D10.
]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:47:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588215 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=4#116
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:44:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588234 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Locke DieDrake]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=4#115 Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Double TaP
Question: I've noticed people say you have to get a new graphics card to take advantage of the new system. Well I recently bought an invidia 7800 gtx... one of the best on the market i believe. I'm not going to ahve to buy a new gc to take advantage of vista dx10 right?

dx10 cards don't exist so yes, you'll need a new card. Or you could jsut be like everyone else and not upgrade at all. Nothing wrong with how eve looks now.


Wrong. DX10 cards are out.

Nvidia 7900gt and gtx are both DX10. And I don't doubt ATI has something DX10 compliant.


7900GT/GTX are most definitatly not DX10


Actually, they are. There will be a firmware update when DX10 comes out and the 7900 and better cards will be able to use the new Dx 10 features.


___________________________________________
The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain.
___________________________________________]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:43:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588238 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by Maya Rkell]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=4#114
As has been explained in this thread before, Vista ready and DX10 ready are DIFFERENT.

All sorts of PC's will be able to run Vista. Running DX10 on Vista? Entirely different story.

"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:43:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588240 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - by SengH]]> http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=323031&page=4#113 Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Double TaP
Question: I've noticed people say you have to get a new graphics card to take advantage of the new system. Well I recently bought an invidia 7800 gtx... one of the best on the market i believe. I'm not going to ahve to buy a new gc to take advantage of vista dx10 right?

dx10 cards don't exist so yes, you'll need a new card. Or you could jsut be like everyone else and not upgrade at all. Nothing wrong with how eve looks now.


Wrong. DX10 cards are out.

Nvidia 7900gt and gtx are both DX10. And I don't doubt ATI has something DX10 compliant.


7900GT/GTX are most definitatly not DX10
]]> Thu, 13 Apr 2009 22:35:00 +0000 eve-search/guid/5588276 <![CDATA[Second class eve citizens - b